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No need to protest

Started 6 months ago by Jiggers
Latest reply from DBP

Jiggers
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The best way to protest against corporate companies is don't go out and buy their products on Black Friday...ok? But I know a lot of you are hypocrites.

Posted 6 months ago #
chrisma
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I think you've earned this today, Jiggers

Posted 6 months ago #
Bostonman
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Seriously? Have you been by the protests. Those people have more smart phones and laptops than a college campus.

Takes a lot to walk the talk. Most people don't have it in them. I will stick to my non protest mode so I can buy toilet paper without protesting some paper mill someplace.

Posted 6 months ago #
Smitty
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Sent from my iPhone.....

Oops, *just* beat me to it!

Posted 6 months ago #
chrisma
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Seriously? Can any person living in America actually avoid buying and using products made by some "evil" corporation? I think maybe Ted Kaczynski got pretty close in his Montana cabin, but...

The raspberry is more in response to Jiggers attitude than his statement. Apparently, Jiggers poop don't stink like everybody else's on this forum. Must be nice.

And as far as the protests go, the message I've been getting from them is that big (corporate) money has far too much influence in our political system and something needs to be done to limit that influence.

Posted 6 months ago #
csw2119
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The movement is not against corporations, it's against corporate greed. Ex. CEO's taking home obsene bonus, the works having benefits cut, no raises, hours cut, jobs cut,etc.

Posted 6 months ago #
Bostonman
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Well by saying its against corporate greed then listing those items what you are basically saying its against corporations making money and using that money in a way they see fitting. Whether that means political contributions, or bonueses. So the only way to not give them that money is to not buy their products.

Posted 6 months ago #
csw2119
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Bostonman, I hear what you are saying, but I would prefer if the corps would show their gratitude to their workers. The workers are half (or more) of the reason the corp exists in the first place.

Posted 6 months ago #
redblack
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what csw said, and i would add that it would help if they paid taxes like the rest of us, quit accepting subsidies, and stopped offshoring labor. in other words, show gratitude to the country that allows them such opulence.

jiggers: i have actively - or passively - participated in buy nothing day every year for a decade.

other than black friday, i buy american whenever i can. yeah, i own a cell phone. show me one that's made in america and i'll pay whatever it costs.

i "walk the talk" and make informed decisions as a consumer. what i object to is being some corporation's demographic or sales lead.

i'll let brad pitt say it. it's all in the first 30 seconds of the clip:

http://youtu.be/wcztDZ13TLI

ironically, that clip from 12 monkeys is ad-laden.

Posted 6 months ago #
csw2119
Member Profile

Yes Redblack, I agree with the tax issue. It seems like a no brainer that corps should pay taxes. You and I pay them. I was shocked when the list came out last month with the top 30 companies that did not pay any taxes for the past 4 years.

Posted 6 months ago #
Bostonman
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CSW I hear ya. In a way I can't say I don't disagree. Who wouldn't love to have more money in their paycheck? At what point are we crossing the line though. At what point are we basically just letting the government dictate private industry. I am not willing to let the government get involved with telling companies how they should spend their money.

That doesn't mean I agree with the obscene salaries of some of these CEO's or the tax loopholes or the capital reinvestment in the USA. It just means I don't want government involved.

Should a CEO of a high worth company make $20 or $30M a year? Possibly, considering the weight on their shoulders. The fact they can keep a large company running and keep tens of thousands of people employed says a lot. Do I think they should get huge bonuses when they leave? No. Should they get them if they run them into the ground? No. Considering most of their compensation is tied up in options and stock its safe to say if they run it into the ground those are worthless.

I can appreciate having a voice of reason at the protest level. Personally I don't want government in the private sector but I can understand what you are saying.

Posted 6 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Bostonman...

When United filed a reorganization bankruptcy some years ago, it defaulted on it's pilot's pensions.

when it reorganized, the bankruptcy judge approved massive bonuses for the executives who had saved the company so much money by removing it's pension obligations.

that's an example of corporate greed...

know who picked up the tab for the reduced pensions under the pension guarantee act?

the taxpayer.

Posted 6 months ago #
JoB
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Bostonman..

"At what point are we crossing the line though. At what point are we basically just letting the government dictate private industry."

We have already reached the point where we basically let private industry dictate our government...

That may be working really well for corporate America, but it isn't working for America's citizens

Posted 6 months ago #
JayDee
Member Profile

The point is effective corporate taxes are lower than ever, Americans as a whole are taxed a full 10% lower than comparable nations and we are complaining about it?
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If CEO performance and compensation was actually tied to company performance, that would be great. Having CEOs sit on the boards of other corporations and then have them vote on the compensation packages is strange--imagine that-- the benchmarks keep rising. Let the stockholders vote on it -- they own the company and there is a structure for doing so. At the end of the day the CEO is grandly compensated for doing so, "stress" or not. If they do poorly, then lets give the stockholders the say so to reduce it--I trust they would.
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Like the president a CEO has some responsibility for how things go at a company, but most are just keeping the seat warm. Show me a Steve Jobs and I can show you a handful of Kerry Killingers. CEOs are not magicians, and unlike Lake Woebegone, not all of them are above average. What is left of the corporate culture (Bob's Red Mill, New Balance, heck, Nordstroms) determines the success of a business.

Posted 6 months ago #
redblack
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not all of us are complaining about taxes, jaydee.

bostonman: i'm pretty sure that once a company gets to a certain size, with a sufficient number of employees and computer networks to help them, that you could drop an eggplant in the CEO's chair, slap a $10,000 suit on it, and no one would know the difference - except maybe the shareholders screaming for their dividend checks. the company would keep on running, possibly forever.

i mean, it's not like the dude is up there writing employees' paychecks out of a bank book and balancing account ledgers.

Posted 6 months ago #
JoB
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What seems to be forgotten in the wage debate is that a businesses success or failure is as dependent upon the resources of it's employees as it is on it's businesses plan.

Posted 6 months ago #
Bostonman
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Redblack, that statement tells me you have never been in that position or anywhere close to it. If only it was that simple. If that is your initial understanding I can't even begin to explain.

Posted 6 months ago #
dawsonct
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I don't think the primary role of OUR government is ensuring the financial success of some trans-national corporation, especially if the cost to our society is to the detriment of the vast majority of human citizens of our Nation (not to mention the harm it causes to the rest of our World).
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Want to talk about failed experiments (a constant underlying meme)? Try oligarchies and monarchies throughout human history. We don't need a power elite, they stifle social evolution.
I don't rue anyone the wealth they have earned, even the LARGE majority of extremely wealthy in our Nation who were BORN INTO THEIR WEALTH.
It is possible to be wealthy, even to BECOME wealthy, without being a greedy sociopath, to show gratitude for the Nation you live in that helps you maintain your great wealth, the Nation whose Commons you DEMONSTRABLY use to a greater extent than the average citizen.
I don't want people to not be wealthy, I just want them to not be so greedy that they destroy our Nation.

Posted 6 months ago #
redblack
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bostonman: give it a shot. educate me. tell me how those guys actually run the company's operations - aside from deciding which competitors - or congressmen - they're going to buy this week.

these CEO's seem to have a lot of time for golf and yachting and whatnot. i wonder if there's a way to tie their salaries to their golf scores...

Posted 6 months ago #
waynster
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They say thats fine the CEO gets the big bucks for making and calling the shots. I have no problem with that except when it all comes crumbling down its the workers who get the blame. The pink slips flow for the blue coller worker and the green flows for the board of directors, Presidents and VP's in tune of millions in golden hand shakes and bonuses. So who makes out when bad decisions are made its not the lonely worker at the bottom is it.......

Posted 6 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

redblack...
a CEOs greatest assets are his/her connections...
especially those to our legislative processs

Posted 6 months ago #
Jiggers
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Black Friday is a fools day. Only limited amoount of merchandise distributed in a shark frenzied chaotic situation... I notice those early people are poorer people. Who in their right minds with money wakes up that early and deals with that crap? You're insane!

Posted 6 months ago #
DBP
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You're right, Jiggers: we ARE fools, we ARE insane.

But thank you for changing your avatar anyway.

Is that you in the picture?

Posted 6 months ago #