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NiNICKELSVILLE IS OUT OF WATER!

Started 7 months ago by Betty T
Latest reply from elikapeka

Betty T
Member Profile

A call came out a while ago that Nickelsville was out of water! My daughter made a water run but not enough. I'll take maybe 9 gallons in a while, just thimble full in a washtub actually, but that's all the jugs I could scrounge up. Would highly appreciate any help anyone could give.

Posted 7 months ago #
Betty T
Member Profile

Sorry for the double post.

Posted 7 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

Betty: Thanks for everything you do for Nickelsville.

I assume you've already contacted people at City Hall about getting a permanent water hook-up for N-ville. Right?

When I was there for the City Council Grand Tour & Photo-op last summer, getting a permanent water hook-up to N-ville was mentioned repeatedly by residents, and the councilmembers who were on the tour* all nodded their heads in agreement.

Or at least, I thought that's what they were nodding about. Maybe they were really just nodding out of politeness, like Japanese imperial officials who bow their heads in seeming agreement when what they really mean is: "Screw you, running dog!"

*************************************************************************************

*Sally Bagshaw
Sally Clark
Nick Licata
Tom Rasmussen

Rasmussen and Clark are both running for re-election. Perhaps now would be a good time to remind them to get off their asses and do the right thing for Nickelsville.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

DP..
Nick licata is pushing an option tomorrow (Tuesday ) that would allocate eventual funding for water and sewer at Nivkelsville but even that long shot won't provide immediate water.

There is no more water guy at nickelsville ..just a patchwork of volunteers who fill as many 5 gal jugs at a time as they can.

We really need to put pressure on the council to get a temporary tank out there.

Posted 7 months ago #
jissy
Member Profile

What happened to "BK"??

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

We have WA National Guard units, and Army Reserve units throughout WA state.. M149 "water buffalos".. surely there are some around allocated for civil defense needs? Can't Licata get one from the state for TDY? We have/had a gravel fund at Hotwire... this is on Craigslist ... cheap solution

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/grd/2630249968.html

Posted 7 months ago #
velo_nut
Member Profile

Are there any rain collection units down there?

Posted 7 months ago #
jamjets
Member Profile

Jissy, here is the short version: We kept NV "in" 120 gallons a day for the months of June, July and August. Special thanks went out to Kim and others who filled in while we were out of state for 2 weeks in late July.

I have not been to the camp in a while due to other committments and do not know where their water has been coming from lately.

There is city water 200 feet from the camp. Citizen volunteers delivering water in jugs is not a sustainable source for a basic need like water, and the city should at least allow a garden hose to be run to the camp.

BK

Posted 7 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

We really need to put pressure on the council to get a temporary tank out there.

Absolutely! If you can get the Council to put a tank there then you're getting them to start taking more responsibility. Once you get that, then all it takes is a nudge to get a regular water hook-up. Once you get the water, it's just a small step to a supply of electricity. And from there another small step to permanent structures (with roofs and heat) for everyone.

Why is the City dragging its feet on this? The residents and SHARE/WHEEL have already done most of the work. To me it seems like a water and electric hook-up would be the easy part.

JoB if you want to work up some language that people could give the Council / Mayor's Office when they call, that might help . . .

Posted 7 months ago #
miws
Member Profile

Betty, thank you for putting out the call for water.

Shortly after you stopped by this evening, somebody dropped off several cases of bottled water. (I believe I heard around 30 cases!)

I didn't see who the donor was, so don't know if it was one of our regular donors or not.

Mike

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Please, please.. when you all pillory the deep dark heart of conservatives...this is our poster child... how asinine is this? Open the water spigot you stupid asses! Gonna vote for Licata for this result? McGinn is too busy painting green boxes on Capitol Hill streets. Putz.

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

And you know what makes it even more irksome? It's demeaning to the residents who have to hover between need and tiptoe to not offend or create ripples. Mike I am sorry... but it is so disheartening to see this forced lack of dignity. Occupy Seattle my ass... yessuh masta

Posted 7 months ago #
Kevin
Member Profile

Agreed that the city should be helping, but in the meantime, how about a water fund?
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Here is just one company that supplies potable water.
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http://www.waterbuffaloinc.com/services_offered.php
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http://www.waterbuffaloinc.com/water_trailers.php
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Likewise, perhaps an in-kind out and out donation, or asking for a generous discount from one of the major bottled water suppliers?
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Geez, down by Auburn, there is a huge FEMA storage lot with all sorts of equipment sitting idle.
.

Posted 7 months ago #
Kevin
Member Profile

Back when I was a youngster, there used to be "trick-or-treating for UNICEF. I wonder if it is too late to put together a "trick-or-water" for Nickelsville campaign?
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What if young children were to visit local politician's homes asking for spare change for Nickelsville?
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Perhaps a busload of children all dressed up in their costumes paying a visit to city hall with empty plastic cups and water bottles?
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Seems to me that the city takes better care of poor lost and abandoned strays residing at animal control. At least THEY GET water.
.

Posted 7 months ago #
HMC Rich
Member Profile

Kevin, you are probably right but I doubt FEMA (Federal) would get involved in a local issue.

I have been away for a bit. I am not up to speed on what is going on in Nickelsville. What is the main hope for the residents inhabiting Nickelsville now that the weather is getting worse?

Posted 7 months ago #
Kevin
Member Profile

Just had a nice call Tuesday morning with the folks at Water Buffalo Inc.
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A 1200 gallon tank of clean drinking water runs about $800 per week. Certainly not sustainable for ever, but perhaps a thought as a temporary solution until the city is able to step in.
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Just $10 per week if 80 individuals were willing to contribute.
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At the $20 level, only 40 folks would be needed.
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The Water Buffalo quote is just one quote. There could be companies that can offer a better rate?
.

Posted 7 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

There is nothing wrong with people devoting their time, energy, and money to helping Nickelsville. That's all to the good. But if that's ALL you do for NV – and you NEVER take any kind of political action in support of the place – then the long-term result of your help may actually be the opposite of what you intended.

Think about it: If the City sees NV getting along fine with citizen support alone, why should they step in with a water hook-up? (One might even ask: Why isn't the water hooked up already?)

The end result of the residents' generosity combined with the City's inaction will be this, that when West Seattle is feeling generous, Nickelsville will have enough water and everything will be great. But when West Seattle is feeling apathetic — or when the JoBs and the Bettys aren't around to spearhead stuff — then Nickelsville will suffer.

Is that what you want?

So yeah, help out with the water. But don't spend too much time jerry-rigging a temporary water solution when your time would be better spent pressuring City Hall to just go ahead and approve a damn water hookup.

Once again, I'm with kootchman on this. If "Occupy Seattle" wanted to see some real change, right now, they would all move down to City Hall with "Dignity for Nickelsville" signs.

For that matter, NV residents could be doing that too. But I can see how they might be a bit . . . um . . . skittish.

So that's where we come in.

Posted 7 months ago #
Betty T
Member Profile

Everybody keep the ideas and suggestions coming. Never know what might work. I don't know about sources for water but if I did would certainly throw a suggestion out there.

MIWS---I saw the cases of bottled water come in as we were leaving. I've seen the man before but don't know if he's there regularly or not. I took about 24 gal. last night and brought 12 empties home. Linda saves jugs for me and others need to know that. Be sure they fill the large containers so we can reuse jugs.

The gravel really looks great! Big improvement. Nickelsville keep up the good work!!

Posted 7 months ago #
miws
Member Profile

*Plants a big ol' sloppy kiss on Betty's cheek ;-)*

I was among a group of several people living at Nickelsville, as well as some others representing SHARE, that appeared this morning at a meeting of the city Council's Special Budget Committee.

I was one of three speaking on behalf of NV, two
others spoke on behalf of SHARE.

The talking point I came up with was:

Our needs are over 100 gallons of water per day at Nickelsville.

Currently, supportive West Seattle Neighbors provide what they can, when they can.

We need a steady, reliable source of water for hygiene purposes, and to ensure we have plenty of water to drink.

It was a bit more concise than I would have preferred, but there was a pretext that I had to say, and we were under a time limit on comments.

Mike

Posted 7 months ago #
chrisma
Member Profile

Greg Jacobsen, owner of Jacobsen Marine, is the person responsible for the property taxes on the building directly adjacent to the Nickelsville camp. I provided this information to the Nickelsville staff in the summer and don't know if anyone tried to make contact with him, or not.

I had thought, perhaps a water hose connection could be made from that building to the camp, since it wouldn't have to cross any streets, presuming Mr. Jacobsen was amenable to such an arrangement, and payment for the water charges could be secured (either from the NV residents or their supporters in the community -certainly would be cheaper than trucking water in).

Ideally, someone who knows Mr. Jacobsen, or who shares a social circle with him (Northwest Grady White Owner's Club, anyone?) would approach him about this. I'm six degrees away from this person, so I'm putting this out there to the NV supporters in WSB land to see if any of you are closer. If so, and you're willing to approach him, that would be great.

If I don't hear from anyone in the next 24 hours, I'm going to go down to his shop and see if I can make contact with him.

However, I agree with DBP about pressuring the city to step up and take some responsibility for addressing the needs at NV. This possible solution does nothing to force our city politicians to address this issue.

Posted 7 months ago #
oddreality
Member Profile

The Occupy movement appears to be for changes on a national level. If you want a local level movement it needs to be started locally. I am guessing here as I am not involved in it but do support it.

I still wonder why people are trying so hard to get Nickelsville permanently set up in a contaminated field when the original plan was to move it to an actual empty building?Wasn't that the city's plan??? Seems a building would be so much better in inclement weather than a field.Maybe not, maybe they like living in the field better.

Posted 7 months ago #
Betty T
Member Profile

This is where they started and they're tired of being chased out, but nobody has come forward with any building or buildings. They feel fairly safe there and have there own security crew 24 hrs daily. Safer than on a street or under a bridge. I know people who drive by there a lot and don't even know they are there. A person can only make the best of what they have and they're trying. All the woodchips and gravel has helped emensely with the mud issue. All shoveled and moved by manpower.

MiWS-- What did the council have to say to your comments? I know it's been discussed with them before and no results.

Posted 7 months ago #
Betty T
Member Profile

ODDREALTY--I just went back and read through the posts again.In the first place I'm not a driver and not young either! There are people who can lead at Nickelsville. They're well spoken and know exactly how to speak for what they want. If I were 20 or even 10 years younger I'd go to the city too. So--I do what little I"m able to and have to ask for rides to do it. Are we supposed to not take water and let the pregnant woman end up in the hospital from dehydration? Not!

Posted 7 months ago #
Betty T
Member Profile

oddreality Sorry about the misspell, tried to correct it. Apologies.

Posted 7 months ago #
miws
Member Profile

Betty, they didn't reply directly to our comments, but the same three; Licata, Bagshaw, and O'Brien still *seem* to be supportive.

Bagshaw re-iterated how impressed she was at the level of organization down here, and Licata commented on the importance of getting water down here.

Mike

Posted 7 months ago #
Betty T
Member Profile

Good luck with that.

Back to Wood Chips---If you still need them catch pennidogg under "Need Woodchips?" He has some but no way to haul them. I've been trying to connect him with someone for several days.

Posted 7 months ago #
Kevin
Member Profile

City Council Video.
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For those of you who may be interested, here is the link to the 10/25/11 AM City Council meeting.
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http://www.seattlechannel.org/videos/video.asp?ID=2061127
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The first 15-20 minutes feature public testimony from Nickelsville residents and others.
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Description of the options for the one time homeless budget begin at 37:00, and mention an estimated cost of $38K for infrastructure improvements at Nickelsville (sewer and water)
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Council member Nick Licata specifically addressed Nickelsville beginning at 62:00 and received a large round of applause at approximately 63:00.
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The entire meeting runs 106 minutes.
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If your time is limited, I suggest the following points are worth a listen:
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00:00-20:00 - public comments
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37:00 for several minutes (Nickelsville option outlined, among other options)
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62:00 for Mr. Licata's comments
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Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Jamjets
You did an incredible job this summer but you are right.
It is long past time to pressure the city for a more sustainable temporary solutions
?

Posted 7 months ago #
Betty T
Member Profile

JoB

Are you available Saturday? I've lost my driver for Saturday's lunch. Daughter will be busy with girls for Trick-or-Treat at the junction. I asked a neighbor but he wants nothing to do with it. Thinks they shouldn't be there and its up to the city, not us.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Betty
I'm sorry. Saturday won't work for me either.

Anyone out there who can help Betty take lunch to nickelsville on Saturday.?

You can connect through me at Joanne at braydon dot org

Posted 7 months ago #
Kevin
Member Profile

Yes JoB, I could probably help out!
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@Proud Puget Ridger - how about you? It would be nice to finally meet you in person- even if just to agree that it is OK to disagree!
.

Posted 7 months ago #
chrisma
Member Profile

For what it's worth, I spoke with Greg Jacobsen this morning about the prospect of Nickelsville getting water from the building he owns on the adjacent property.

He told me that at some point in the past, the NV residents had connected up to his outside water without asking his permission, and that he had had to lock up his taps. I was disappointed to hear about this.

While he expressed that he had no problem with Nickelsville being on that site, he said that providing water was a bit of a Pandora's box for him. There is apparently no way to parcel out the responsibility for the service between his business and NV, so he would be financially responsible for all the water provided, and is unwilling to take the risk of getting stuck with a potentially large bill.

He was perfectly friendly in discussing this with me, and I very much appreciated that he took a few moments to talk with a perfect stranger about it. I can certainly understand his concern and reluctance, given the circumstances.

Anyway, not that anyone showed any interest in this inquiry to begin with, but I think this officially closes the possibility.

So it's back to pressuring the city to provide a connection, and/or trucking water in.

Posted 7 months ago #
Kevin
Member Profile

@chrisma,
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But.... what if West Seattle as a community were able to "GUARANTEE" Greg Jacobsen that THEY would make up any shortfall IF expenses got out of hand?
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Nickelsville makes VERY frugal use of the water that is currently brought into camp.
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The 2010 US census shows about WS Population: 20K folks in West Seattle. Median income of $45K + with about 10% defined as living at a "poverty" level
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http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/Research/Population_Demographics/Overview/default.asp
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I'm sure there is probably about 5 - 10% that are able and willing to offset Mr Jacobsen's potential loss if anything goes south!
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We have a LOT of resources over here on the peninsula. Can YOU HELP OUT? OR are YOU one of the approximately 10% that is unable to assist even though you would like to?

Posted 7 months ago #
celeste17
Member Profile

I propose to the next door neighbor that he provides one month of water usage to Nicklesville have the water bill from that time period a year ago and see what the difference is. If it is humungous then say no. If it is within reasonable usage then let Nicklesville have water and pay for it. Either way he wins. If he can provide water he is a hero if he can't he still comes out good as he offered.

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

As usual someone else will have to lead. There are options aplenty with a little thought. First, thought. Do not all the firehouses have access to water to refill their tankers? Second, there are multiple sources of potable water containers. If we get one in the 500 gallon range or combinations of containers, sufficient to make one or two trips to the firehouse per week to fill we can minimize the logistics which are sporadic'.. I will sign up for a monthly pledge for 1500 gallons of water, paid in advance. Anyone with a garden faucet is a potential source. What is the cost of 1000 gallons?

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/grd/2660928262.html

Any number of food processors, bakeries, syrup, vinegar containers are available throughout Seattle. A 55 gallon potable water approved with spigot is around $30-40 each. Put em on a cheap flat trailer with a hitch in the parking lot.

Posted 7 months ago #
chrisma
Member Profile

@kootchman: according to SPU, commercial water rate is $4.63 / CCF for the water and $10.28 for the associated sewer charges. A CCF is approx. 748 gallons, so that yields a cost of about $0.02 per gallon (if my math is correct). So, 1,000 gallons is $20.

Who purchases the large container?
Who provides the trailer?
Who hauls it?

500 gallons of water weighs a little over 2 tons, not counting the weight of the container and the weight of the trailer.

Posted 7 months ago #
Kevin
Member Profile

@chrisma - I'm glad you asked that question. According to the nice folks at:
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http://www.waterbuffaloinc.com/services_offered.php
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A portable water tank capable of being towed by a pickup truck can be purchased outright at a cost of $1200 - 1500. A reasonable solution until the City of Seattle can quit dragging their feet until March or so of 2012 when they have indicated there MIGHT be a solution in place?
.

Posted 7 months ago #
chrisma
Member Profile
I guess I need to be more snarky. I brought all this up in July to crickets.

@Kevin: So my taking the initiative to go talk to Mr. Jacobsen doesn't count as "helping out". What about me helping to deliver water to the camp while the Jamjets were away, or the load of food I dropped there this week?

Could I be doing more? Probably. I can tell you that my household income is far less than $45k per year for a family of three, so the help I can provide is not primarily financial.

But, yes, there are plenty of resources here on the peninsula to solve the NV water problem. The question is how to coordinate them.

So how can YOU help with that, Kevin?
- What kind of guarantee did you have in mind to offer to Mr. Jacobsen?
- Do you have a check to give him for that first 1,000 gallons?
- A list of names of community members with their pledge amounts?
I would have loved to have hashed this all out with the interested people here BEFORE I approached him, but I got almost no response. In fact, the only real response I got was a suggestion that I provide Mr. Jacobsen's contact information to NV staff and let them handle it, which I did. As far as I know, that went nowhere.

After having participated in the water delivery (briefly) I agree with the Jamjets: Citizen delivery of a basic need like water is unsustainable. They need a more reliable solution.

I have no special relationship with Greg Jacobsen. I literally walked into his place of business unannounced and asked to see him, and fortunately found him there and willing to talk to me for a few minutes.

As I said, he was cordial, and seemingly unperturbed about the presence of NV next door. His concerns were with the financial (and perhaps other) liability that would come with helping NV out with water. I don't know if he'd reconsider, but I certainly wouldn't approach him again without a detailed plan, and some backup options for his possible objections.

Here's one possible alternative that incorporates kootchman's suggestions:

If a large capacity water container could be secured and delivered to the camp, we could approach Mr. Jacobsen with a proposal to by from him a specific quantity of water (say 500 gallons) at a time, at whatever rate he pays. The biggest hitch I see would be coordinating with someone to come over there and turn on the tap, as needed. That could develop a PITA factor pretty quickly.

Another, alternative would be to get some find of water meter device that could be attached to the tap that Mr. Jacobsen might theoretically provide to the camp, and charges could be assessed on the camp's usage at a specified interval. I stress, that in this scenario, there would have to be a guarantee of payment to Mr. Jacobsen that HE would find acceptable, and I don't know what the dimensions of that would be.

Well, this wall of text is long enough. I'll leave it there and would be glad to participate in a larger discussion of solutions.
Posted 7 months ago #
Kevin
Member Profile

Hi chrisma,
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I never once suggested that your talk with Mr. Jacobsen did not count! Actually I find it VERY commendable that YOU took the initiative to speak with him.
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As for NV and water solutions, my wife and I are currently in the same position as you. Neither one of us has worked in over two years due to the economy and health concerns,.
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All I have to offer is that of being an idea guy, and likewise you have assumed the role of idea gal. As one of my friends offered - "a thought provoker."
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In my job search group which meets in WS, we have a saying - "the ANSWER" is always NO until you ask! Please keep asking :)
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I'm just like you, I DON'T have the resources to deliver a solution, but ideas are FREE! so I submit them for what they are worth! And again, I applaud YOU for stepping up and taking your time to talk with someone! Thank you!
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My sincere apologies if I ever suggested or inferred that you did NOTHING to support the cause.
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And go ahead and count ME too in that 10% that I mentioned in a previous post that are "unable" to assist. My wife and I have cleaned out our pantry on several occasions to make small donations. EVERY can helps!
.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

chrisma
i sometimes think the greatest roadblock to assisting Nickelsville is that those who have become donor volunteers are not coordinating their efforts. unfortunately the current policies at Nickelville don't make it easy for us to work together on their behalf.

i am currently working to get those policies changed.. but in the meantime i suggest that we get together informally.

i am willing to form an email list where we can trade info for anyone who wants to participate with a pizza get together mid november.

in the meantime, as one of the many water volunteers at nickelville, i agree that we need to keep trading ideas for a temporary solution..

i can be reached at joanneatbraydendotorg

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kevin
i have betty's phone number if you can commit to this saturday's delivery

Posted 7 months ago #
Kevin
Member Profile

Will do JoB - thanks! Send me an email please.

Posted 7 months ago #
chrisma
Member Profile

@kevin: Thank you for your reply. I think I may have misunderstood your post (#33). You directed it at me at the beginning and I thought the capital YOU at the end there was directed at me also.

I'm a bit short on sleep today, and I apologize responding so strongly.

I do appreciate that you jumped in here and hope you'll continue to be a "thought provoker" in the discussion, wherever that discussion ends up happening.

You're certainly correct in saying the answer is always NO, until you ask, and that's exactly why I went to ask Mr. Jacobsen.

I do think it would've been better to have thought and talked it through with a few people who are perhaps better informed than I am, before approaching him, but what's done is done. Perhaps that door is not fully closed, or another solution will yet come to light. Some good ideas are showing up here this week.

Oh, and not that I mind being referred to as an "idea gal", but I do have boy parts. My username might read better as ChrisMA (the MA being my middle and last initials)

Cheers!

Posted 7 months ago #
chrisma
Member Profile

@JoB: just emailed you. Thanks!

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Chrisma
I have always assumed men could have ideas too

Posted 7 months ago #
celeste17
Member Profile

I was at Costco today and bought two 25# bags of rice for 10.00 each and several other items for Nicklesville. I am not saying this to tell you I did but to tell you what I felt like was a good buy.

Posted 6 months ago #
Betty T
Member Profile

I feel that people taking whatever they can when they can may not be an answer but its way better than nobody doing anything. I know most would like to do more, if able. Its plain to see there are a few goodhearted folks out there. There's the thinkers and the doers and both are important.I happen to be one of those who can't contribute money. So I collect what items others offer or don't need and cook with it. Maybe all your discussion will eventually come to a good end. Let's hope so.

Posted 6 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Chrisma..I will purchase the containers. There "was" or "is" some $340 "around" that can be used to purchase a trailer kit, or a used utility trailer. It was sorta misplaced. Donations for the pig roast disappeared... I would have used those funds for the trailer. N'Ville will probably have to track it down. The person who took the money is as I understand known, Possibly being held in stewardship? Delivery is going to have to be on a volunteer basis. With a 2" ball hitch and a known cost for water, pretty much anyone with an outdoor spigot could provide water. At .02 per gallon, at least we know how much to offer an outdoor spigot owner. Home Depot had an 1,800 lb capacity trailer kit for sale last week for around $$320 $$.... the trailer weighed about 400 lbs... any 6 cylinder vehicle should be able to haul it. It may be erratic, but having 5-600 gallons bulk water on hand may smooth over the crisis... I have one vehicle that can pull it. Maybe some others will offer to make 1 or 2 deliveries a week... a sign up roster or something like that.

Posted 6 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

If N'ville wants to get exotic, I have a 12 volt water pump from a boat ... that can transfer the water from the trailer into the camp..or just use one of the spigots. In nay case... 20 bucks for 1000 gallons seems cheaper than what we are doing now. There are enough handy dandy guys down there to assemble a trailer kit. I have any tools and wrenches they may need.

Posted 6 months ago #
munchkin22
Member Profile

Kootchman: I was told your pig money can be retrieved at the Josephina downtown if you go to what I guess is the Share office. Personally, I think Share should deliver it to you, since you so graciously purchased, delivered and cooked the thing. Not sure if you had been told that but I was told that at NV. May be true, may not be. My hope would be that someone would ask the question at their Sunday mandatory meeting at the camp when their benefactor is present. Just my opinion.

Posted 6 months ago #

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