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(40 posts)

Nickelsville Shuffle (Part III)


  1. I was at the Highland Park Action Committee meeting last night (the one JoB referred to in her "I forgot to make my point" post). I'm posting these comments separately for reasons of clarity.

    ************************************************************************************

    The HPAC meeting demonstrated once again how futile Seattle politics can be. It's no wonder some Highland Park residents are upset about Nickelsville, given that it appears to be in a permanent state of limbo, somewhere between "jungle camp" and "decent place to live."

    After 8 months, people are getting fed up and are starting to vent their frustration on both politicians AND Nickelsville residents. A common theme from the residents at the meeting was "It's time for OTHER parts of the city to bear their share of the burden."

    If this state of affairs continues, we will no doubt see another mass eviction. Bummer.

    Unlike some HP'ers, I don't blame Nickelsville or the people who live there. But I DO blame the politicians. There's been an appalling failure of political leadership here, both from the Mayor and the City Council.

    At last night's meeting, Deputy Mayor Darryl Smith said, "We're not going to evict people at Nickelsville." At the same time, however, he would not commit the Mayor's office to trying to formalize Nickelsville at its current location or deliver any utility services there. Nor could he offer any ideas for where Nickelsville could relocate to – other than "churches and non-profits" which is obviously not a long-term solution.

    Apparently Mayor McGinn had only one trick up his sleeve (the Sunny Jim site) and the Council quashed that, so now it's like the Mayor's washed his hands of it.

    **************************************************************************************

    Tim Rasmussen was there too. He agreed with the Highland Park folks who wanted Nickelsville out of Highland Park and off city property. But just like Deputy Mayor Smith, Mr. Rasmussen did not offer ANY alternatives. In regard to the Sunny Jim proposal from the Mayor's Office, he said that the property would have needed to be rezoned before even a temporary occupation permit could have been granted. Ergo: It was an illegal site (as if the current one isn't!) Ergo, the Council vetoed it.

    Note that Rasmussen was also one of the councilmembers who voted AGAINST Seattle Public Utilities setting aside money ($39,000) to hook Nickelsville up to water and sewer services. Licata, Bagshaw and O'Brien voted for this proposal. All other councilmembers were against.

    ************************************************************************************

    I'm still waiting for someone from either the Council or the Mayor's office to start proposing ideas for where the residents of Nickelsville can stay PERMANENTLY. Failing that, they could at least have the decency to say: "OK, let's get some water and services to those folks while we figure out what to do."

    These are human beings living at Nickelsville.
    How can we say to them: "We don't know what to do with you exactly, but no, we're not going to give you a warm place to sleep at night. And no, we're not going to let you have safe water to drink or wash in."

    For God's sake, people! We treat our motherlovin' PETS better than this.
     

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  2. For anyone who's interested, we have video of the entire meeting up on YouTube. I am writing the story in the next couple hours.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  3. I am a Highland Park resident and I have no problem with Nickelsville being there. BUT I agree that if they're going to stay, the city should come through with some utility infrastructure to ensure that conditions at the camp don't deteriorate. Aid from local neighbors is great but not sustainable.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  4. Good karma, Tracy. Yeah, Patrick was there filming it all, so if you don't believe me, watch the video.

    datamuse: I love you.

    (In the strictly blog-tonic sense.)

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  5. Politicians, I suspect, are most concerned with their political careers. That's how it works.

    I'm sure it's more than just a matter of money, but couldn't Nickelsville start fundraising for the money it would need to get connected to city services in it's current location? I know that's probably a tall order, but it would seem if there are enough advocates for NV to collect the needed funds, that's pretty strong evidence of community support and it eliminates at least one excuse for the Mayor and the City Council not to act.

    I'm sure there's all kinds of reasons that this isn't a viable suggestion, and you're all welcome to shoot me down on it. It's just the thing that came to mind. Obviously, it's going to be a long cold wait for the city politicians to do anything on behalf of NV, on their own.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  6. metrognome
    Member Profile

    I guess if you think Nickelsville or homelessness in general is the only issue our local government is dealing with, then it's easy to bash elected officials and bureaucrats as caring only about their careers.

    I also suspect that if the city formalized its relationship with Nickelsville by providing water and power, it would open up a whole legal can of worms regarding the city's responsibility for this site as well as others.

    Things aren't always as simple as some people would like them to be.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  7. I think we all kn ow that if the city recognizes them as an entity with water, etc. it opens up a lot of things. The point is..they have visited NV, they have said a decision would be made at some point. Mayor McGinn was even going to provide the Sunny Jim location. So...now, in the meantime, let's just pretend that this place doesn't exist? Yes, they have other things to think about...but it doesn't lessen the fact that there are human beings in that field, who are cold, need water, and many other things. Why they're there? Lots of reasons. So what? They are still human beings in need of help. So..sorry, you're just not that important? Really? Maybe next year when we're not so busy? Shaking my head here.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  8. DBP: Aww, you say the sweetest things.

    Metrognome: I've got no illusions about any of that. Just as I'm sure you have none about the adequacy of existing programs and services in Seattle to address homelessness.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  9. metrognome
    Member Profile

    datamuse -- I worked at the north end of Pioneer Square for over 20 years. I know that some people are homeless by 'choice' because they don't fit into society for any number of reasons, including drug/alcohol issues, mental health issues, criminal records, etc. I know that an increasing number are veterans of the mid-East conflicts who are unable or unwilling to be helped by the VA, which is struggling with the massive increase in demand caused by George W. Bush and his posse of sycophants who were unwilling to take care of the men and women damaged in the war he lied us into. And I know that a lot of people are on the streets and don't want to be and never thought they would be, but the overwhelming greed of the 1% couldn't be satiated. And I know that government can't solve social 'ills' despite decades of trying. At best, they can give people a step up and try to hold them steady while they find their way out. And the government does this, despite being confronted by people who are just as vocal as the advoctes about why the government shouldn't be spending money that way and hearing constant whining from some taxpayers paying too much ...

    I don't have a problem with the city providing services to Nickelsville and wish they would do it sooner rather than later. It will only take a small bite out of the problem, but that's the best way start, esp. as the residents of Nickelsville have shown such a willingness to be a true democracy and to encourage people to be there as short a time as is necessary.

    And so it goes.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  10. DBP ... I just came back to reread this all the way thru and I wanted you to know I did not plagiarize your use of the word limbo ... that was the conclusion I reached after watching the entire video and reading Patrick's notes. Interesting discussion, to say the least. - TR

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  11. The West Seattle community has opened its heart to the folks at McGinnville. Perhaps the banks and Wall Street crooks could part with a bit of their generous bonuses to help folks like Mikew weather the harsh winter.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  12. Er...just so we're clear, metrognome, that wasn't intended as snark. I know this isn't a simple issue, and in point of fact, I wish Nickelsville wasn't there. Not because I have an issue with the people being there, but that they're there instead of at home in a warm bed. Please don't think I'm speaking from a position of ignorance, any more than you are.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  13. metrognome
    Member Profile

    datamuse -- thanks for clarifying your meaning; I didn't take it as a snark. In re-reading the posts, I should have put a paragraph break after the first sentence as my response was more geared to the concept in the thread that it should be simple for the city to act. I guess even after 20 years, I never got used to the frustration of seeing the hardcore homeless, esp. the ones I got to know over time.

    btw, saw a great librarian shirt in a catalog:

    "Shhhh! Happens"

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  14. I hear ya. I've spent quite a lot of time in that same part of town, and over in the ID as well. Some faces get depressingly familiar.

    Nice shirt! Though mine isn't all that quiet these days, at least not on our busy first floor. My favorite is the one someone gave me that says "League of Extraordinary Librarians". Boo-yah!

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  15. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    Jiggers

    Gorillas in the wild are more civilized and treat each other better than humans do. Metrognome.. explain to me what a hardcore homeless person means? I thought the correct word is chronic? Anyways, the one's you have known for awhile, do they fall into one of the three catergories? 1. A drunk 2.Drug addict 3. Mentally ill?

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  16. one of the largest difficulties in talking about homelessness is the assumption that some people just "want" to be homeless.

    well, some people do want to drown their sorrows in booze and illegal drugs. Heck, some people want to drown their sorrows in legal drugs. But not all of those people live on the streets.

    those who live on the streets do so because they don't have homes to live in.

    When we decided to abolish our mental institutions we literally dumped the mentally ill on the street and placed the responsibility for seeking and adhering to mental health services on the mentally ill.

    does that make sense to you?

    then we agreed to homeless services that treat the homeless like some kind of degenerate that simply needs to be warehoused overnight... caging them n locked down facilities without services where predators are free to take advantage of anyone weaker than them and dumping them onto the streets in the early morning hours ... mostly unwashed and possibly unfed.. to fend for themselves until nightfall.

    Does that make sense if our goal is to return homeless people to productivity? We may as well throw them int he drunk tank to "sleep it off" till morning.. whether they have anything to sleep of or not.

    There are exceptions to this shelter scenario.. but they are sadly, the exceptions.

    And there are incredible day programs where the homeless can wash clothing and shower and find resources.

    but again.. if you have to carry everything you own on your back and be in a shelter for lockdown by early evening and find a daysource that still has room and wait in line at each service.. just surviving consumes your day.

    I am not saying that camps like Nickelsville are the answer. I personally think 24 hour shelters... like the one being tested at the Lake City Firehouse this winter... are a better answer...

    but in the meantime.. we have 100 homeless people who woke up this morning in Nickelsville with ice on the inside of their tent and no common shelter to gather in to warm themselves by the fire or cook their meals.

    Last night they had little or no water.
    I don't know if they were able to find a resident or volunteer with a car to fill water jugs at a local church tap last night or not.
    i hope so.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  17. i am not going to go back and edit my post because my energy is limited today and i have two Nickelsville related appointments that are more important to me than editing...

    but this is what happens when my heart overtakes my brain...

    I forgot to tell you what i forgot to tell the group at Highland Park...

    It's easy to write all homeless people off as people running from society seeking oblivion...

    but you don't see the people who lived 30 days away from financial collapse until some event ended their fragile financial security... mothers, children, young people, people old before their time, injured and chronically ill people and the mentally ill who are off the radar and off of their medications... oh.. and mentally ill people who are back on their medications but still have no means to get themselves out of the poverty that landed them in Nickelsville.

    And they aren't just in Nickelsville.
    Take a hike in our greenspaces...
    you will find them there too.

    what can't easily be seen are the countless working poor who are literally 30 days away from joining their ranks...

    but the lines at any food bank will give you some idea of the depth of the problem we are facing.

    Every night I thank God that right now I have a roof over my head and enough financial security to help out where I can.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  18. Oh.. and one last thing...

    someone suggested fundraising as an answer for nickelsville...

    and there is some validity to that...

    but you can't fund-raise to pay for services that can't be connected because it is not legal to do so.

    you can fund-raise to pay for water delivery or garbage or portable toilets or economical environmentally correct heat sources or large tent structures for storage and common spaces or loads of gravel to create safe pathways or ....

    we are currently 75 dollars short of fundign the next gravel delivery which is badly needed before the rains set in again.

    a group of us who have been donating goods, services and time at Nickelsville are currently in the process of putting together a donors organization that can facilitate the kinds of donations that make a difference for those living at Nickelsville.

    I will be posting a meeting notice after the first of the year.. but in the meantime.. anyone is free to contact me at joanne~AT~brayden~DOT~org

    I can't tell you how incredibly generous the residents of West Seattle have been. Every day i walk into camp i see evidence of someone's generosity... a load of used construction bricks for lining firepits and creating raised pathways where gravel just isn't enough.. a load of pallets.. a stack of firewood... donations of food, clothing and personal products...

    and i see more new faces.. people who don't live at Nickelsville but are now giving of their time...

    This is one of the things I love about West Seattle... the big hearts that embrace the arts, sustain a year round farmers market and an incredible variety of local restaurants also tend to embrace those who are in need.

    i'm late for someone i can't be late for...

    or you know i would say more about the politicians on BOTH sides of the homeless issue who are more concerned with politics than with the homeless.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  19. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    Jiggers

    DESC in downtown requires you to be in their facility by 5:30pm if you are lucky enough to be assigned to a bunk the same morning. You do meet with a case worker who evaluates your situation. If you decide to leave for any reason after 5:30pm, you aren't allowed to return. They lock you in. It is some what worse than prison because It is overcrowded with drunks, mental people and drug addicts. A lot of unhealthiness is abound. They do not check for illegal drugs or given breathlizer tests before letting you in. It has the potential to be much worse than prison on any given moment since there are no correction guards or safety measures taken. You do have the choice though and can leave if you don't feel comfortable enough to stay overnight. A lot of shelters aren't safe. Period!

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  20. Betty T
    Member Profile

    JoB
    I'll be bringing water when Ellen and I take lunch to Nickelsville tomorrow. We're doing it together this week. My friend that you talked to last week is out of commission for weeks as she was having surgery today.
    So many people don't realize that everybody at Nickelsville doesn't just stay there. I do know some prefer to be there. Others would do almost anything to move on. Some are there a very short time. The majority care about their"home" and have worked so hard to try to make it liveable. Just like any place , even in a building, there are those who care and "do things" and those who want someone else to do it. Most are very helpful, friendly, appreciative and so humble. This is why I do my Saturday lunch and take whatever donations that people where I live donate. And I live in low income housing! for seniors! We are so thankful for our wonderful home and care about the people during this freezing weather! We all only hope that the little we do is of some help.My big problem is depending on others to get me there.

    Tomorrow I'll put on more clothes and we'll be there with hot coffee and food.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  21.  

    Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, because I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you welcomed me. I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

    Then the righteous will say to him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and give you something to eat, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you as a stranger and welcome you, or see you naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

    The king will answer them, ‘I tell you with certainty, since you did it for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did it for me.’

     

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  22. I heard a Paul Allen story..

    they way i heard it
    he walked into one of the local shelters
    (not Nickelsville)
    looking like a bum and inquired about services...
    he got the bum's rush

    until someone recognized him...
    then they couldn't fall over him fast enough

    what he told them was that he wasn't interested in how they treated him..
    but how they treated the average guy needing help.

    needless to say
    they didn't get his money...

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  23. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    365Stairs

    So, then it would not go as unsurprising I've not heard back from the mayor's office regarding the serious inquiry of re-purposing empty & unused (with no plans to use) city owned structures with utilities for temporary established residence - with very strict security and safety rules.

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  24. not unsurprising at all...

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  25. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    365Stairs

    Ok...my 3rd prompting yielded this from the mayor's office (will forward once received)...

    "Thanks for writing! We did indeed receive your message and have been working on a response for the mayor to review with your letter. I believe we are just waiting for him to get a chance to look at it. You should receive it soon."

    Thanks again,

    April Thomas

    Communications Specialist

    Office of Mayor Mike McGinn

    Direct Line: 206.684.4000

    Fax Line: 206.684.5360

    PO Box 94749

    Seattle, WA 98124-4749

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  26. now that's what i call communication :)

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  27. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    365Stairs

    Here is our mayor's response:

    "Thank you for writing. I agree with you that we should look into using empty city-owned buildings to help house people who need shelter. In fact, we are already doing this in Lake City. We worked with Seattle’s Union Gospel Misison to set up an emergency winter homeless shelter for up to 100 people in the building that formerly housed Fire Station 39. If you’d like to learn more about that project, you can go to http://mayormcginn.seattle.gov/providing-shelter-and-services-at-fire-station-39. We will continue to keep an eye out for opportunities such as this one, which help us respond to the need for shelter by using resources we already have. Thanks again for writing. Please feel free to do so again on this or any other issue." Sincerely, Mike McGinn Mayor of Seattle

    Not entirely sure the city's efforts outpace the real need and it goes beyond the traditional seasonal shelters. I suppose it is a start?

    What more in the way of actionable response / results can be garnered here?

    Do we need to get a list of available / emtpty realestate assets from the city and go to each for proof they are sitting there?

    What kind of pre-proposal action plan could be drafted that reflects the ability to move in with cost effectiveness and sustainability with out degrading the property long term?

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  28. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    365Stairs

    So...just curious...is the mayor's basic response helpful, neutral, relevant, or simply not enough?

    Is there more specific locations we can press further on to get real action?

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  29. I thought it rather neutral, really, although it WAS a response. Commit to anything regarding NV? No, not really..it told of things that they plan in the future, hopefully, if they can find those buildings. Wish there was a way to pinpoint some of these unused buildings, and speed the city along ..sigh..

    Posted 5 months ago #         
  30. kootchman
    Member Profile

    In the words of Elaine ... yaddy yaddy ya... put on a ballot intitiative... "be it resolved, they city shall, provide potable water, minimum WHO standard for waste treatment or disposal, and free metro transit passes valid for 6 months after issue for nay encampment of homeless citizens.. The city shall designate enough city owned facilites for hot showers and instruct the management of those facilities to dedicate operating times specifically for those who have residency where no such showers exiist. Every city managed, owned, or leased property with more than 4 shower heads shall report to the city council a city wide inventory of "shower heads" located in city facilites." The 6 month temporary ID card issued shall serve as valid ID for entrance. The city may appoint or designate any charitable organizations, or persons, or group of persons or recognized "shower committess" within established encampments. to assist in insuring the responsible use." The city shall not take retaliatory action or act in any manner where the purpose is to displace or evict encampments from city or private properties where that property has no ongoing essential utilizations.

    Posted 4 months ago #         
  31. get it started, Kootch :)

    Posted 4 months ago #         
  32. kootchman
    Member Profile

    I'll sign it. I will knock on doors and will gather signatures. I won't write it. I will donate $100 for printing ... the citys says... it takes a million bucks to put an initiative on the ballot...perfect... a little green mail to go along with it...

    Posted 4 months ago #         
  33. singularname
    Member Profile

    not sure which thread to ask so I'll dive in here ... Has anyone opened up their home to one of these folks, a couple, or a family, as their space may allow? It would obviously be a sacrifice, but it seems it would be comparable to the dire circumstances I read about on the forum here. Say a 6- or 9-month agreement, something like that. I just read all the frustration and passion here and wonder if that could be put into an approach that yields positive results, at least for several if not all.

    Posted 4 months ago #         
  34. singular: A few folks on the Blog have formed supportive relationships — "mentoring" relationships if you like — with individuals they met through NV. These relationships have included everything from giving rides to appointments to providing work or even temporary housing.

    As far as I can tell, NV has no official policy or framework for individual mentoring of residents, but there's nothing stopping you from dropping in at camp for a potluck or some other public event. Once there, you can get acquainted and keep your eyes open for opportunities to connect with Nickelodeans as individuals. Just please be diplomatic about it. And use common sense, for your own protection as well as for that of the person you're trying to help. Obviously mentoring a homeless adult or family takes a higher level of both commitment and caution than, say, after-school tutoring. I'm sure you know what I'm saying . . .

    Posted 4 months ago #         
  35. kootchman: I'll sign any such petition that comes my way. However, I think a city-wide initiative might be biting off just a little more than we can chew at this time. I would prefer to get water and electricity hook-ups to NV first and then see how it goes.

    I very much like your idea of keeping it simple and asking charitable organizations and/or churches to pitch in. One reason these groups should be involved is that they are practical-minded and are already very accustomed to stretching budgets. Another is that they see this kind of work as part of their mission.

    Conversely, I feel that government's role should be minimized, which is in line with your own philosophy.

    I don't know how long you've been in Seattle, but some dozen years ago, the City launched a good-faith effort to build more public toilets around town. Well, the product they ended up with was a high-tech self-cleaning unit that cost around $1 million each. After that fiasco, many people decided that public toilets weren't such a good idea after all, which was the wrong conclusion. Public toilets were still as good an idea as ever. Just not at $1 million a pop.

    Or should I say . . . $1 million a poop . . . ?
     

    Posted 4 months ago #         
  36. kootchman
    Member Profile

    1 Million per toilet... well of course ... it is Seattle. First, those were self cleaning.. anti-drug shoot-up cribs with a design statement. That is not required here. The camps will do their own maintenance. The do clean out chores now. There are very very efficient composting toilets. Not cheap.. but there are units designed for up to a family of eight. 10-15 for N'ville? Some manufacturers..

    http://www.envirolet.com/enwatsel.html

    http://www.natureshead.net/?gclid=CP6nu6rZq60CFQVvhwod_0WqlA

    http://www.sun-mar.com/

    etc.. etc...etc... I have a Sun-Mar in my motorhome with solar panel panels to run a ventilator to speed up the composting action. Simple microbe technology. I wonder how much they are charging for the Port-a-Potty rentals? Anyone know?

    Posted 4 months ago #         
  37. kootchman
    Member Profile

    And...as a side note... the toilets are not wire, or have plumbing connections. Should the camp have to move... they can be moved with the camp. Keep renting those portable units and before long the accumulated costs will be surprising..., I suspect composting toilets have already been paid for... I think McClendon sold them for awhile... I paid $980 for mine... good for 6 people constant use, as would happen in a vacation camp or rural home... as is true wilth all things... volume purchases mean heavy discounts. Just sayin...

    Posted 4 months ago #         
  38. kootchman
    Member Profile

    And...as a side note... some toilets are not wired, or have plumbing connections. Ventilators help speed up the process of biodegradation...little solar panels can run fans..or little wind ventilators driven by external airflow..also 12v options (and 120v (not practical) .should the camp have to move... they can be moved with the camp. Keep renting those portable units and before long the accumulated costs will be surprising..., I suspect composting toilets have already been paid for... I think McClendon sold them for awhile... I paid $980 for mine... good for 6 people constant use, as would happen in a vacation camp or rural home... as is true wilth all things... volume purchases mean heavy discounts. Just sayin... There is no sewer discharge to hassle with. The "night soil is odorless and pathogen free and actually a good compost. At worst... the "night soil" can be removed every two weeks in garbage bags to the waste transfer station down the street. There is no "oooh..how icky" factor.That burden being taken off the city.. shower access a few times a week and a fresh potable water source. Each one of us can use our networks to help... redblack, I, and others are in the construction trades.. I am sure if we hit up every contractor, supplier, (bty some have donated gravel, wood, roofing etc) each network can come up with a toilet..without too much strain or stress I think some of my customers have donated about a grand for requested incidentals...sometimes ya have to ask outside the blog) for some this is a big challenge .. for others nto big deal we horsetrade for a living..we hear no all the time..it's part of the biz we do.... teachers are great to mobilize donations, church groups, A&e firms, lawyers, them, healthcare networks... ya got the drift...

    Posted 4 months ago #         
  39. 365 Stairs: If you're still out there (and I know you are) can you contact me at DP_Editor at comcast dot net? I'd like to speak with you about the Mayor's response to your communication. Thanks.

    –David

    Posted 4 months ago #         
  40. munchkin22
    Member Profile

    munchkin22

    Kootchman: I believe the p/w we saw several months ago listed around $1300/month for the 4 johns. I think the dumpster is close to $900/mo.
    I like your idea of composting toilets, but then again we're God fearing/loving, tree hugging, gardening, composting conservatives...with lots of liberal friends. NV does that to a person. Blurs the lines between us.
    (A little)

    Posted 4 months ago #         
  41. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    365Stairs

    DBP - I emailed you as requested...check your inbox or Junk mail...

    Posted 4 months ago #         

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