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(58 posts)

NICKELSVILLE GOATS NEED HELP

  • Started 1 year ago by Betty T
  • Latest reply from oddreality

  1. Betty T
    Member Profile

    Received a call a while ago for help for the goats at Nickelsville. Is there some kind animal loving friend who can provide them with some hay?
    They are completely out! Everybody loves these goats. Can someone please help?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  2. Talaki34
    Member Profile

    Talaki34

    I have found a store in Kent that has goat feed pellets and bales. I can pay for feed, but I need someone to pick it up.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  3. Talaki34
    Member Profile

    Talaki34

    I am going to go and get two bags of pellets for now and will drop them off after work if I can find the camp after dark. Hopefully someone who has a truck will be willing to pick up the 4 bales. 80-100 lbs a piece.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  4. Betty T
    Member Profile

    Talaki34

    If you still need someone when you see this Rick Gay on Nickelsville Works has a truck and will haul but needs to know where the hay is loca
    ted.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  5. Talaki34
    Member Profile

    Talaki34

    If Rick Gay is on Facebook, I cannot access him. I am not on it. Is there another way to call him?

    I did deliver two bags of orchard grass pellets, one salt block and a garbage can to store the pellets in. I left my number for the goat keeper to call me. I am also speaking with a woman who operates a goat rescue operation. Who knew that goats should not have grains (I had to take the original food back) or human food of any kind and that there are a list of plants that will actually kill them.

    I am learning so much. Very cool!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  6. It is one thing to end up at Nickelville with your pets but those goats were given to them. Maybe the person who gave them the goats should take them back since they aren't being fed properly.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  7. Betty T
    Member Profile

    mehud The goats have grown up at Nickelsville since last year.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  8. Betty T
    Member Profile

    Talaki34

    All I can do is relay messages.

    Peggy was on Nickelsville Works saying goats don't eat pellets. ??? What do I know. Also said they have no way to keep more than 1 bale of hay.

    Could you give me your email or a phone number to relay to Rick Gay?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  9. Why is peggy not feeding the goats?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  10. Talaki34
    Member Profile

    Talaki34

    Betty, I am trying to forward my number to you through the editor. I don't know if they can do that or not. If they can do it, please give me a call soon. I get up at about 0200 to get ready for work so bed time is approaching. :)

    My understanding from the rescue organization is that some goats will not readily eat the pellets, but most will when they get hungry enough.

    I left my number at the rear gate entrance, I have yet to hear from the person taking care of the goats.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  11. oddreality
    Member Profile

    Is Hayes Feed store in Burien out of business? They always have hay at least they used to.

    Seems like they should ask for hay way before they
    run out especially during the holidays when things are closed.
    What will they do with the sheep when the camp moves??

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  12. Talaki34
    Member Profile

    Talaki34

    The two food items that have been Vet recommended are Orchard Grass or Timothy Hay. Bale or Pellet. Bales are probably better as long as the feed is up off the ground and can be stored. Pellets seems to be their best option at this time if they can convince the goats to eat them.

    I am including a link to some info:

    http://www.goatsave.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=10&Itemid=8

    I will still purchase the bales, but we need to come up with a storage solution.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  13. Has anybody thought about renting the goats out to earn money for Nickelsville?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  14. Betty T
    Member Profile

    The issue here is not "why didn't they do something sooner" but getting it done and maybe not let it happen again.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  15. Betty T
    Member Profile

    JoB
    Is Peggy supposed to feed the goats?

    I'm just a relay.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  16. ssaird, um that is why they got the goats last year was to eat the blackberry bushes around them.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  17. Talaki34
    Member Profile

    Talaki34

    Since I have joined this “Bleating Goat” discussion a little after the fact, once the goats are fed might I suggest we ask the person from the goat rescue to come and assess the conditions the goats are living in and give us some options how we can bring their care up to a healthy and sustainable standard. If they only have storage for one bale of hay, that is telling me the pen they are staying in (hopefully with adequate shelter at least) is very tiny.

    ssaird - Great idea, but it would require a vehicle/trailer, licensing and lots of training to produce a qualified goat herder. They also use electrical fencing and some have the added presence of a dog. For larger areas the herders will sleep on sight. It is a big undertaking and a very serious business that requires a lot of training.

    Betty - I will have my cell with me. Please have Rick Gay call me or anyone with a truck who is willing to get at least one or two bales of Timothy Hay or Orchard Grass.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  18. Talaki34, I just wanted to say thank you for stepping in and helping out. I'm not in a position to help with a truck, but wanted to acknowledge your help and say thanks.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  19. Betty T
    Member Profile

    I'll try to get your number to Rick if can do so without posting it anywhere. Other than that, I have to bow out of the "Goat Issues". My intention was only to relay the need message. Other than that I'm not involved in any way with the goats. This is for the person in charge to deal with and probably Scott too.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  20. Nickelsville is supposed to have at least two dedicated pet coordinators, and they are the ones who are supposed to ensure that the goats and all other animals at camp are being cared for properly. That does not mean that a pet coordinator can't come on here (or delegate someone else to come on here) and ask for help with buying hay or whatever, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening here. Rather, what seems to be happening is that Blog folks are trying to fill in for a NV staff person who is either absent or asleep at the wheel.

    This is clearly a problem, and it demonstrates once again why management of this camp (and of homeless issues in general) should not be left to volunteers.

    I echo the concerns of mehud and hammerhead. The fact that we're having this discussion about goat food without any oversight from Nickelsville staff suggests that the goats are not being properly cared for and that Animal Control or some other animal sanctuary organization (like PAWS or Passado's Safe Haven) should be contacted.

    Betty, I don't want you to feel like you got "burned" for passing along this important request for help, but I would like some assurance that someone at camp is taking permanent responsibility for feeding and caring for these animals . . . to the extent that anything at Nickelsville can even be "permanent."

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  21. DBP..while I mostly agree with you, pleae remember that NV staff is not properly equipped at all times with computers, laptops, the latest in smart phones...and may not be able to come on here readily. I may be wrong about that, but...hey, I'm wrong a lot of the time. In the meantime, maybe they simply relay the message through those who volunteer there to help out....like Betty.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  22. Talaki34
    Member Profile

    Talaki34

    I have a Doc appointment late this afternoon and I will try and swing by NV tonight to see if I can get a feel for what problems they are facing. If I cannot get there tonight, I will try for sometime this weekend. I think like lots of things in life, maybe having the goats was not thought through for the long term.

    Please let me do some checking before anyone jumps.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  23. We have goats at school. They really need very little but they do need a shelter from the rain-nothing fancy but it should keep them totally dry and clean water to drink. As for food they don't 'need' pellets. Hay is much cheaper and lasts longer and the rats don;t care for it as much as they do pellets! I do feed my goats goat food but I can afford it and have no storage problems, it would not be neglectful IMHO to not feed them 'feed' as long as they have food around them to eat and get hay everyday. They should have a nice round belly if they are being taken care of. I am going to get my guys some food this week, I'll drop off a couple of bales-I buy it wrapped in plastic for about a $1 more but it is compack and stores easily so I'll get them some of that. I'll see if I can go in and check on the goats too if they will let me.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  24. Yes, thanks Talaki, for stepping up to help on this, (and to Betty for relaying the message).

    Jo is correct.

    Peggy is the one that should be stepping up to make sure the goats are fed. She can afford to "donate", and last I knew, she had a Chev/GMC mini van, plenty big enough to haul some bales of hay. She is also the one that bought the goats for NV.

    Unless policy has changed since I lived there a year ago, the Pet Co-Ordinator, (back then me----solo), did not have direct oversight of the goats. That was tasked to the two to three Camp elected Goat Herders. Although, if there had been a serious enough issue come up, I possibly could have been called in to help.

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  25. Really? As DP has stated in other posts it is ONLY a matter of when NV is going to shutting down, then what is going to happen with the goats then. Why is nobody addressing this. What the elephant to big?

    NV should have never been given the goats in the first place. SO who ever got the goats, can the goats go back the "breeder". Another issue, as if the large breeds rescue don't have enough problems already, again if the goats were never given to NV then we would not have to try and rescue them.

    CSWS thank you for the info on the goats. But the fact that the humans are living in horrible conditions, whether or not the goats have a shelter, the goats are the last thing the humans down there should be worrying about.

    Giving cat and dog food is easy, carrying bails of hay is not. As others have mentioned you need a vehicle big enough to carry it. SO sadly what is going on with the goats, is probably going on with the rest of the animals in the camp.

    Now lets talk about when NV is shut down, again as it has been stated MANY times. Housing is next to impossible to find. Now imagine the ones that do have pets and can not get housing because they have a pet. Then what? The people have to give up their pet. Again no one is thinking long term. NO NEW animals should be allowed in because most likely the animal will have to be given up to have a place live.

    HH/FCAT

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  26. Talaki34
    Member Profile

    Talaki34

    I just called NV and left my number again. Hopefully, someone will contact me this time. I think my biggest concern besides what the goats are eating and shelter is the training of the herders and vet care.

    Lots to know about goats. LOL!!!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  27. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    Was that the agreement? Did the person who provided the goats say she would be responsible for food? I've gone back to last year's discussion and didn't see that come up. I hope you get a call Talaki. I also worry about their hooves in mud. And what happens to them when the camp floods?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  28. GenHillOne
    it is my understanding that the goat pen did not flood although i will confess that i did not personally check to verify that.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  29. btw.. typically, the goats get better care at Nickelsville than the people.
    i don't know how the blackberry mowing intention worked out,
    but i do know the goats are .. or at least were last time i visited Nickelsville.. well cared for.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  30. wow...everyone once more ready to jump on NV, and they shouldn't have this, or shouldn't have that. If you have not been down there, as I haven't lately, then perhaps you need to refrain from negative comments. Give them the benefit of the doubt, as you would want for yourself.

    It seems to me the goats are being taken care of, have survived for quite some time (last time I saw them was a year and a half ago, so they've managed until now)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  31. oh, and NV is not shutting down, as far as I know...see http://westseattleblog.com/forum/topic/remember-nickelsville#post-391564

    post 48

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  32. It does not matter how well they cared for, we all need to think LONG term. What is going to happen with the goats when the camp shuts down.

    HH

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  33. where did you hear that the camp is shutting down?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  34. Betty T
    Member Profile

    JoB

    HELP! I was informed a short while ago that I'm accused of calling the goats malnutritioned. Does anyone of you posting here see me saying any such thing?? I've refused to be involved in anything except relaying information and connecting Talaki34 with a person who offered to haul the hay! Now we're looking at someone wanting to bring in someone to "investigate". The accusations against me had best be withdrawn or I'm gone!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  35. GenHillOne
    Member Profile

    I don't see any mention of that term, Betty, so I wouldn't let yourself get too worked up. As far as the life of the camp, Jan, speaking for myself anyway, I've seen it mentioned in several spots that even NV itself acknowledges that its time is limited. I'll have to get off of my ittybitty keyboard to find the links, but a couple of references that come to mind - an HPAC meeting and a story about the property and Food Lifeline.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  36. Betty, I'm so sorry to hear this...it's getting way out of hand, and shouldn't be happening. Seems to me, some people with an additional beef about NV have jumped on this and carried it too far. You were just a go between, nothing more. My suggestion? Ignore them. Period. They do more harm than good.

    To whoever out there is doing this, Betty is one of the kindest, upstanding volunteers at NV. She makes them a meal for lunch on Saturday's, every Saturday...and does it out of the goodness of her heart. So leave her alone. What good does it do anyone if she stops doing this?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  37. GenHill1..HPAC has been after them from the beginning...and yes, there is that Food Lifeline thing...but there is nothing written in stone yet...shutting down is not imminent.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  38. Pamela, if you have a problem with NV having goats, take it up with Nickelsville Staffer Scott Morrow at 206-450-9136.

    Lotsa luck getting a call back, as folks that want to donate often have issues of not hearing back from him.

    This is (likely) all that I will be saying on this topic right now, as I am livid that such a wonderful Camp Supporter/Donor/Advocate, and personal friend is having to go through this bullshit.

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  39. junction hero
    Member Profile

    Homeless people shouldn't have pets at all. They can't take care of themselves much less a pet. Animals with homeless people starve a lot longer and die faster. Most shelters won't allow animals in. It is abuse to put your dog or whatever onto the street with you everyday. You should have someone care for it while you get your own act together. No daily fresh food or water for the animal is abuse. Seeing homeless people abusing their animals in the cold makes me pissed off. I've seen homeless teens with pitbulls bite and taught each other in downtown. The goats should be taken in by somebody. Now they are begging for food for the goats.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  40. Talaki34
    Member Profile

    Talaki34

    Betty – I think I may be the culprit. If I am I am sorry. I did call NV to try to get a hold of someone responsible for the goats and asked for a call back, which Diane did and we had a nice chat. I also asked if it was ok for me to come down to see the goats so I might have a better idea of what was needed. I think that the person I spoke with may have interpreted my desire to help as more of an intrusion or accusation that all was not well. I did mention that I am theone who brought the food in. If this was the catalyst for the accusations against you, I am sorry. I really didn’t just want to barge in unannounced so I was trying to make an appointment of sorts.

    ------------

    My offer to buy several bales of hay stands if they still need it. My participation at NV ends there. I do suggest someone speaks with Diane to see if she would be receptive to some outside support. I would recommend it be a person who is very knowledgeable about the care of goats and has a real desire to help ensure Diane has all the help and info she needs. Diane sounds like she really cares about her charges. A good place to start I think would be a place like http://www.goatsave.org/.

    I would also like to say that NV really has to look long term when it comes to the goats. Unless they already have a place that can readily take them in should their circumstances change, I think having some kind of emergency plan is a good idea. In Jan, I am doing one for my cat Boo Boo.

    Any who, I am done. Roasted and toasted.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  41. Talaki34, said her self there needs to be a back up plan, she just said it nicer than I did. LOL

    As for Betty , NO ONE said anything bad about you at all in this thread.

    Mike trust me I know ALL about scott.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  42. Betty T
    Member Profile

    The comment wasn't on the Blog. It apparently came from a person who talked with Talaki34. It was like how dare your mom say on the Blog that the goats had malnutrition. I knew it wasn't anyone on the Blog but thanks for evrybody's support. I'm sure my daughter will handle her end of it.

    Iit irritates me that a simple request for help ends in a major discussion about how bad Nickelsville is. How animals don't belong there and homeless people shouldn't have pets.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  43. Out of respect for Betty, I'm editing out my last post from this thread. To view that post, please go to the "Remember Nickelsville" thread (#50). It's about the Nickelsville timeline.

    Thanks.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  44. junction hero...have yu been to NV? do yu know for a fact that the people there abuse their animals? That the animals don't get food or water? Heck, the people have to rely on others for their food, too. So before you condemn these people to having one less thing, I suggest you go check it out. May be an eye opener. (I will give you that I have not visited there in quite some time because I have been in ill health, and immune system is down).

    wow...it was just a request for food for the goats, who have been taken very good care of (grammar?). It has escalated far beyond that...'tis still the season, folks...can it wait until next week? Please?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  45. Betty T
    Member Profile

    Junction hero

    None of the animals are neglected or mistreated in NV. They have water. There is a bottled water company delivering many 5 gal jugs on a regular bases. I doubt anyone in NV asked them to. They do not beg for anything and in fact are not allowed to even bum a cigarette from a donor or visitor. They could get barred. Dog and cat food are donated to them. Neither dogs or cats are allowed to run loose in camp, they're all on leashes. Dogs are well behaved. There is a Pet Coordinator in charge. Have you ever thought that a homeless person with a dog has protection, besides another warm body for company? Nickelodians DO NOT BEG! The call to me regarding hay came from another donor.

    I've gained a lot of knowledge about the homeless since I came to Seattle 7 years ago. Even more since becoming aquainted with Nickelodians.

    You think the homeless shouldn't have pets? What about some of the people in houses who don't take proper care of their pets? Granted a lot do but there are those out there? Some are let to run loose, some never are let outdoors for exercise.

    Teens with pitbulls aren't a fair example. Too many young people now consideer a mean pitbull a great thing to have. They shouldn't even have them. My own personal opinion is nobody should have them.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  46. montanapup
    Member Profile

    Sigh. This is definitely ridiculous. I agree with Hammerhead and Talaki34 - long term needs to be in the forefront. When IT does eventually happen and IT will.....ugh.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  47. junction hero
    Member Profile

    Baaaaaaaaaaa! I'm hungry this morning where's my damn hay you worthless people!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  48. montanapup
    Member Profile

    junction hero = TROLL

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  49. oddreality
    Member Profile

    ARGH!! Pitbulls are NOT mean by nature..they are made that way by crappy owners..very few are born nasty just like all other breeds of dog. Agree that some young men should never own them.They should not own any dog.Lots of people should not own any dog or any sort of pet they treat them so badly.
    Not that this has anything to do with the conversation about animals at NV but I hate to see anyone denigrate an entire breed based on what they see in the media or maybe met one owned by some kid that should never have any dog at all and treats it poorly to make it act mean.Most pitbulls are fabulous dogs and do not deserve their reputation at all.
    ***MIWS..do you remember Bubba ,Lily and Rooter?? Our dogs back in the day?? They were Staffordshire Bull Terriers now known as Pits even though smaller they look alike and are basically the same breed.They were the best dogs ever ..not scary at all.Gentle and kind.I miss them.We have never had a dog since as wonderful and kind as they were. ***

    On topic.I do think homeless people should be allowed to have pets.Dogs at least - not so sure I think cats are good idea in an encampment but so many out there needing homes they may as well stay with their owners if possible.We all need companions and who are we to say they should not have one? As long as it is well treated, fed and kept as safe as possible it should be ok. However.. they should never be left/dumped when someone moves on. Are there cats at the NV site that were left and now living off the land?? That to me would be a huge problem.

    NV is a nightmare site and to me no living thing should be there.The land not the actual encampment.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  50. Betty T
    Member Profile

    oddreality

    Were you to be forced into similar circumstances with nowhere to live --- would you prefer one of the greenbelts where there is no help and someone could come in and beat and rob you at anytime?
    The homeless need to be recognized as people and not a bothersome group to be swept away with the trash!

    As to the animals--there is alot of comfort for the homeless in a pet to hold , pet and talk to.
    The same is true of the handicapped and seniors for their companionship. At NV the cats are kept on leash and they often carry them around, not allowed to run free.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

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