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NBA coming back to Seattle?

Started 1 year ago by enginerd
Latest reply from DBP

enginerd
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Hey, looks like the New Orleans Hornets may be looking for a new home. As far as I know, the Key Arena is still sitting mostly vacant (except for Seattle U b-ball games).

Maybe we can get some semblance of the SuperSonics back in Seattle!

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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I heard that might be a possibility. While I don't go to basketball games, it would definitely be a plus for Seattle.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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I'd love to see a new basketball team here...
as long as that doesn't include building them a new stadium...

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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yeah, jo. rick sund and wally walker can also sit this one out.

i mean, really?

they cut mac ten as coach because he called them out for the idiots that they are when he didn't coach just like westphal - who was a perennial loser and yes-man. (and that was after mcmillan took an inexperienced and incohesive team to the playoffs, which hadn't happened for seattle since george karl left.)

they short-changed the reign man.

they let the glove go! say what?!

regarding key arena, though, the dictum of corporate welfare clearly states that that facility is insufficient, and that seattle taxpayers must pay for and build a newer, more NBA-and-sponsor-friendly facility.

i.e. never gonna happen.

but, damn, i miss kevin colabro calling a sonics game. didn't even need a tee vee when that guy was on the play-by.

Posted 1 year ago #
AdmiralJaneway
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Get ready for sticker shock. One of the sports radio stations said the average ticket price for the New Orleans Hornets was $45.

Posted 1 year ago #
mpento
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I'm sure another mediocre performing sports team will fit right in. Maybe mayor mac Scwinn would chip in with some ideas.I'm sure he would like to replace the viaduct with some bike paths and a basketball court. Then get a trolly that goes from basketball stadium to football stadium to baseball stadium. Lets put in on the ballot. If the people vote against it then it will probably happen because we all know that no means they are just playing hard to get.

Posted 1 year ago #
HMC Rich
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First, go to Seattle Storm games. Best basketball in town (Although hats off to the UW men's team). But for pro franchises support the World Champion Storm. Second. Average of $45 is not bad considering tickets for Professional Sports are almost beyond most fans ability to afford them. Oh, I wish it was lower. Trust me.

I don't go to many plays or symphony's at the moment. What would their average tickets be?

KeyArena is an OK venue for many things but it is now out of date for NBA and Television. It is not good enough for NHL Hockey and was never meant to be thanks to the Ackerley's and the City of Seattle.

We need a Privately Owned Stadium/Arena, preferably with Parking. The West Seattle Golf Course would be a great place to build and then light rail would need to be extended to West Seattle. Two problems solved. Then again, since Hooters closed down in South Park they could use a Stadium, and maybe a new bridge.

Posted 1 year ago #
tanyar23
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Forget about basketball, we should get the Rat City Roller girls back in Rat City!!! I could not resist. :)

Posted 1 year ago #
maplesyrup
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As much as I love basketball, I don't think we're getting another NBA team for a while. The well has been poisoned.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jiggers
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Honestly, Seattle doesn't deserve an NBA team but, I would recommend A NBA Develope League team. It would do very well here. Like the Thunderbirds. Anyone forget about the extra $30 million that the city would have received from Bennett if Seattle didn't get an NBA team within 5 years? A lot of you don't even know that which would have helped the budget shortfall(I think) which we will still have in three years, and, we won't get the money from Bennett now because former bafoon Mayor Nickels and Legislature couldn't draw up a plan by a deadline that the league imposed on the City of Seattle and send it to the NBA soon after he collected the $45 million dollar check on live TV. A lot of seattleites have short memorie's but, I really think they don't actually give a damn. I don't blame Howard Shultz for selling the team. He's a businessman first, and if your business is losing money, you have to make moves to save your own arse or have any of you here ran your own venture before? I also maybe all wrong too but that's what I remember reading.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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Rich, we disagree on many things, but Seattle Storm isn't one of them. I had season tickets their first season, and what great fun those games were/are. It's good basketball, good fans, and the rapport between the players and the fans is wonderful. They don't have the egos to think that they're above coming out on the floor after the game and throwing T-shirts into the crowd. Kids love 'em, and what a wonderful example for women now.

Posted 1 year ago #
sam-c
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I hadn't seen any new threads regarding the latest proposal (maybe I missed it), so bringing this one back to life.
I read through the documents that the City of Seattle posted on line. I think that the whole scenario is interesting, even though I don't actually like basketball.
one thing that I was wondering.. In one of the documents, it says that Chris Hansen wants to see NBA 'return to Seattle'. However, he doesn't live here and hasn't lived here since 1999. (according to the biography posted by City of Seattle)

is there anyone paying more attention that knows why he would do this if he doesn't even live here?

I don't have strong opinions about the arena either way, was just curious about that.

Posted 3 months ago #
mooch
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Because he grew up here and he's still a fan of all the city's sports, even the Sonics who have been gone for 4 years. Simple as that.

Also, even if you don't care about sports I think you should be in favor of this arena proposal because the deal couldn't be any sweeter. It's mostly privately funded and all of the public money is going to be generated from the arena itself over 30 years. The investors are bearing all the risk. So if you don't go to events at the arena, then you won't be paying for it.

A new venue with 2 new sports franchises in SoDo would completely transform that area as there would be events taking place year-round.

Posted 3 months ago #
HMC Rich
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Mooch is right.

A privately funded NBA and NHL facility by a former resident is a dream come true. One that is built by investors and owners. Plus more revenue for the city and county in a variety of ways (as long as they don't get too greedy).

New Orleans is owned by the NBA. But because of Katrina, that franchise might not move. More likely if Sacramento can't keep the Kings, the Maloof's will sell and Mr. Hanson can buy them.

We must wait and see.

Posted 3 months ago #
maplesyrup
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I hope it's N.O. and not the Kings. The Kings fan base is loyal and never did anything to deserve having their team uprooted. After what happened here, I'd feel pretty bad for them.

On the other hand, the league has been keeping the Hornets on life support for years. I would still feel bad for their fans, just not as bad.

Posted 3 months ago #
Smitty
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Hey, I am confused. Isn't this hedge fund manager part of the evil one percent! How dare he use his own money to build an arena and bring professional teams to this city, not to mention create new jobs.

Evil doers. All of them, I tell you!

Posted 3 months ago #
JanS
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smitty, no one ever said they shouldn't exist, nor do business anywhere...that was not the point. We always welcome anyone who wants to helps the economy.

Posted 3 months ago #
WSratsinacage
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Good point Smitty

Posted 3 months ago #
Jiggers
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We have to start at the ffing bottom agian. The team we had is a bonafide contender for the world title now...(

I'm just wondering what the catch is here with the potential new owner.

Posted 3 months ago #
sam-c
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I never called him an evil doer- If people can afford to invest in communities, in a seemingly positive way then that's good. i was just wondering why it's presented as such a personal endeavor reading the first line of the biography (he loved the seattle sonics, etc), why does he feel the need to do it if he doesn't even live here. I mean, I guess he could afford to fly here all the time and see games..... etc.

I was just relating it to myself, seeing as I moved away from my hometown in 1999, like this investor did. I have no idea what is going on with my old teams, unless I see updates on friends' Facebook updates. I listen to sports radio pretty often, read the sports section in the paper, and there's never stories about my old teams. maybe if I were from somewhere in New England or a bigger market area it would be a different story. so instead of maintaining that long distance fandom.... I just adopted fandom of local teams. it just seemed easier.

that's all, that's why I was pondering his investment in a new arena/ bringing back the sonics even though he doesn't live here. not because I was dreaming up some political / evil 1% !! attack.
http://www.seattle.gov/mayor/media/PDF/120216PR-chrisHansenBio.pdf

Posted 3 months ago #
WSratsinacage
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Why is there a need for a new arena? What would a new arena have that the Key is lacking? Just curious, haven't seen any answers in the media. Thanks.

Posted 3 months ago #
WSratsinacage
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D. C. has a history of making so many photo ops regardless of the position he has held. I met him once, he's kind of arrogant.

Posted 3 months ago #
roundthesound
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I could care less about basketball or the sonics but if this is what it takes to bring the NHL to Seattle them i'm on board!

Posted 3 months ago #
WSratsinacage
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Does anyone know why the Thunderbirds stopped playing at the Key? The arena in Kent is newer but much smaller..

Posted 3 months ago #
365Stairs
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Ok...I welcome anything "new" back to the city if it rejuvinates the local business community...

Having two more pro-teams - even if they do poorly - will add new business opporunities, construction, and jobs (albeit service workers mostly).

I just hope that Mayor McGinn starts putting just as much time into our homeless issues of this city as he has with wining and dining with the billionaire man...

Posted 3 months ago #
roundthesound
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Key arena was determined by the NBA to be an unsuitable permenant home for a team, and is too small for the size ice rink the NHL requires. The Thunderbirds moved to the showare center in kent that is actually the perfect size for their fan base. When they played at the key arena at least half the seats were empty.

Don't you think all the jobs building and running a new arena would help with the homeless problem?

Posted 3 months ago #
maplesyrup
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WSrats, the complaints I remember were:

overall capacity is low
not enough luxury boxes
not enough eating/drinking options
bad parking in the surrounding area
no way to earn revenue from parking (all owned by private lots I guess)
traffic in and out of the area tough
terrible acoustics (ie not suitable for concerts)
inadequate loading area
not suitable for an NHL team
and that in general it needs a cosmetic makeover

Not saying I accept all of that, just what I remember hearing.

Posted 3 months ago #
roundthesound
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Also the businesses in SODO wouldnt have to feel the pinch during the off season for the mariners and seahawks. It would be nice for those businesses to have steady customers year round, also creating more jobs...

Posted 3 months ago #
WSratsinacage
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Thanks for the great info maple and rts. Makes sense.
.
Rts, good point on the new arena indirectly/directly helping homeless (not trying to answer for 365stairs).

Posted 3 months ago #
365Stairs
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Yes...I agree that a certain % of the homeless issues may be assisted with the new influx of business opportunity.

I guess my point was to hope to see our mayor spend as much time focused on the growing homeless issues and make it a high priority...like he has seemingly done so to make these new proposals for pro teams and facilities to take shape.

Posted 3 months ago #
WSratsinacage
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I totally agree with you 365. I've read some other comments in other threads that lean towards a "sports at any cost" attitide and in the same breath mention the homeless can get assistance out of other budgets.

Posted 3 months ago #
365Stairs
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Pro Sports - rooting for teams - gathering with friends...tradition...winning...profitable business ventures...all of this are good things...even those that don't believe this still benefit in a lot of ways...

But these all come at big ticket prices...and a great balance must be maintained to support growth while not looking down at our capable but less fortunate in the same community...

If public tax $ is voted on for building this new facility...and it costs $500 million...I am voting no - until an equitable plan is in place to build a safe & secure 500-700 unit home to manage short and long term housing with all the core benefits a human being needs to sustain themselves...

Posted 3 months ago #
roundthesound
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It's hard to think of spending $430 millions of dollars on anything when people don't have food to eat or a place to sleep. I think this project is a right step for Seattle's economy and I hope it seriously trickles down to help our homeless community. Maybe this is something to bring up at the up coming town hall meeting with the mayor 3/13.

Posted 3 months ago #
Genesee Hill
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That part of SODO has basketball/hockey arena written all over it. Great transportation, and the arena would impact the immediate area less than the existing stadiums, as far as congestion. I'll kick in a buck...

Posted 3 months ago #
Jiggers
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I agree Genesee that that are has huge potential. The main issue is transportation. They'd better get it right before they build. It is all about getting people in and out as fast as possible.

Posted 3 months ago #
CMP
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Some of you must not have the pleasure of working in SODO like I do. Transportation is terrible...the proposed site for the new arena is locked in by train tracks to the east and west, lousy traffic by the current stadiums to the north, construction to the south and Port traffic everywhere. Granted, the Spokane viaduct work will be done eventually, but the last thing I want to see is another arena to make returning to West Seattle from work a nightmare. Next time there's a Monday night football game at Century Link, you should all come down to SODO to see how much traffic that area can generate and not handle well!

Posted 3 months ago #
JoB
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CMP has a valid point.

We would need to invest in transportation to make another arena work in SoDO.

We should have done so long ago

Posted 3 months ago #
DBP
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On the money issue, I hear lots of folks talking about all the jobs and money pro sports teams bring in. Maybe it's true; I don't know. But I have yet to see any good data on exactly what pro sports teams + arenas do for our local economy.

Are the Mariners a net gain for Seattle? Were the Seahawks worth blowing up the still unpaid-for Kingdome and going into even more debt on a NEW stadium? (I don't know; I'm asking.)

The assumption here is that Seattle has hundreds of millions of dollars lying around waiting to be spent on a new project, which is a dubious claim in the first place. But even if it's true, shouldn't we at least be having a public debate on what's the best way to spend that money? Why do we swoon every time some 1%-er starts dropping hints about how he MIGHT buy a sports team and move it here if we build him an arena? Where is our self-respect?

************************************************************************************

Bottom line: I'm for pro-sports if it can actually deliver on the promise of lots of jobs and tax revenue. But I have yet to see any hard data on that, and as a taxpayer, I'm not willing for the city to go deeper into debt just to mend the broken hearts of a few thousand Supersonics fans.

Posted 3 months ago #
NFiorentini
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I agree with DBP.

Seattleites have proven with the Mariners that they will not support a bad product on the field. Last season, they were 27th in MLB attendance. Why would the new NBA and NHL teams be different? After the novelty of the new franchises wears off and these teams struggle in their respective sports, it seems likely that reduced revenue means that taxpayers will be liable to pick up some of the expenses. The fixed expenses that are required to operate a sports facility will be relatively constant, regardless of the teams' performance and ticket sales.

Also, do new competing sports products detract from the others that are already here? Would an NBA team mean that the Seahawks, Mariners, Sounders, and UW athletics see a decrease in revenue? Most people have a limited budget for entertainment, and this may mean having to decide between Husky or Seattle Kings basketball. Or, if the hockey team is doing well, they purchase tickets to it instead of seeing the Mariners.

Furthermore,there is a lot of debate as to the economic impact pro sports has on a community. Pro sports franchises, outside of the players and sports operations themselves (many of whom will not live in Seattle), are notorious for creating few jobs, and those jobs are typically low-paying service industry professions such as parking attendants, concessions, facility janitors, etc.

I think that the taxpayers (us) should view this as an investment and should be asking what the return on that investment would be, without the emotional component that professional sports brings to these issues. Why is $200 million for an NBA and an NHL team's home a better investment than using that money to lure Google, Dell, or Samsung to Seattle? If we're intent on public/private partnerships, why not go after companies that provide high-wage jobs for people who will actually live in Seattle?

What would it take to bring Intel from Santa Clara to Sodo? Why would Mercedes-Benz choose to build a plant in Alabama as opposed to Seattle and would $200 million get their attention? Etc.

If we're hellbent on doing this, then I hope that the overall plan includes designing a facility that will also compete for hosting NCAA tournaments, WA state high school basketball and hockey playoffs and championships, concerts, and other potential revenue streams. The building cannot be half-assed.

Posted 3 months ago #
sam-c
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DBP- i may have to re-listen to yesterday's 10:00am KUOW 'weekday' program. (and listen w/out trying to work at the same time). but, in addition to the private investment, the only tax dollars used for the arena would be taxes generated by the arena itself. like - the bonds would be paid off by sales taxes generated by the arena.

but yes, public dollars should be used to address the traffic nightmares there and does the City have the money for that ? well, who knows but I would think we need to take of stuff that we already know we need to do.

Posted 3 months ago #
DBP
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>>like - the bonds would be paid off by sales taxes generated by the arena

—Right. But if there's not enough tax revenue generated to repay the bonds, then the city is still on the hook for it. (And yes, this happens.)

As we know from bitter experience, pro-sports team owners have a knack for upping the ante once they're installed. That's how the Seahawks got a new stadium, after all, isn't it? Same for the Mariners . . .

You find 'em a forever home, but then, after a few years, it turns out that what you thought was a forever home was really just the starter home. And then it's like: Oh, we love pretty things, Dahling! Build us a shiny new stadium — or we're outta town like a circus clown.

Investing in a sports franchise is kind of like marrying Zsa Zsa Gabor. It's not enough just to give the girl a fancy wedding; you've got to keep her living in the "style to which she is accustomed."

Posted 3 months ago #
JanS
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umm...the agreement calls for a 30 year lease/contract (not sure if they can really do that), I believe...so getting signatures on the bottom line matters...and then hold them to it.

Posted 3 months ago #
kootchman
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The Roman emperors would be proud. Build a diversion. It WILL cost us hundreds of millions for new utilties, sewer and water lines, road and acesss improvements. And pray tell if we use the good faith and credit of Seattle and the teams go bust.... you pick up the tab. We are STILL paying for the Kingdome...a cool 70 million. All so 3X sized spectators can pretend it's their shared glory as sedate taxpayers. Go for a bike ride, hike a mountain, kayak, walk a dog..stop being spectators.. When the city hooks up N'Ville with water... talk to me. When the city connects a new stadium... 200 million or so in new water and sewer connections would be cheap. The can sign all the leases they want... if the teams go under we hold the bag. Add a car rental tax, a food tax, hotel tax... remember all those? Any of them expire yet? If it is private money... go for it... to appease those who need their glory by proxy... that includes utilties, road improvements, street lights, road improvements etc... it costs a billion to build out for stadium. 300 million for a new stadium? Impossible. It;s an oink oink oinker. As to why Mercedes won't locate here? AL is a right to work state... our minimum wage is the highest in the country, our B&0 taxes are beyond the pale, our "progressive" city council interferes with labor/management and thinks it can micromanage private enterprise... for starters... stadiums are crony capitalism. Businesses have learned a harsh lesson... the locate to states where the cost of living is low enough to not put constant wage pressures on their employees.

Posted 3 months ago #
kootchman
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CA is hemmorhaging jobs and businesses. Why go to WS... iy'd s mini CA. ?! Utah is the number one state.... and while we graduate less than 70 per cent ... Utah graduates 90 per cent.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/13/best-states-for-business-business-beltway-best-states.html

WA has fallen five places since Gregoire became governor. I rhink we rank 25th.

Utah's economy has expanded 3.5% annually over the past five years, faster than any other state except North Dakota. This is three-and-a-half times faster than the U.S. as a whole. Total employment in the U.S. has shrunk over the past five years, but in Utah it increased 1.5% annually, fourth-best in the nation. Household incomes have surged 5% annually, which is tops in the country and twice as fast as the national average.

"We have a fiscally conservative government where we are trying to keep government off your backs and out of your wallet. We want the free market do what it does best," says Utah Gov. Gary Herbert, a Republican running for a full term this year

Texas and Utah are siphoning off CA jobs... why go to WA for more of the same? (another right to work state!!) To support these stadiums at the ticket prices they charge... barristas with three part time jobs won't fill the seats. We have chosen Newark, Cleveland, Detroit, as our muni models to emulate.

Posted 3 months ago #
dtown
Member Profile

FYI, For those worried about traffic conflicts... With this year's M's, Kings, & Coyotes schedules, there would only be 3 days when 2 teams play the same day.

Posted 3 months ago #
Genesee Hill
Member Profile

Thanks, dtown.

I hope kootch weighs in though. I am sure he has some stats from the Ogden, Utah Chamber of Commerce and the Fargo Lutheran Church of Tropical North Dakota, that may refute your findings.

Remember, everyone should want to live in North Dakota and Utah because it is "so great" there.

Hehe

Posted 3 months ago #
NFiorentini
Member Profile

Before this thread becomes even more kootched, I'd like someone to explain to me why $200 million for pro sports is a better investment than $200 million towards luring a successful corporation to Seattle. I'm reasonable. I like sports. I have a certain NFL team's logo tattooed on my shoulder. Somebody please give me a good argument (and...hopefully...not a blizzard of copy pasta).

Posted 3 months ago #
maplesyrup
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Right now, as far as I know, there aren't any other scenarios where businesses are offering to relocate to the city in exchange for a $200 million loan.

If there were, perhaps we could compare the merits of each proposal.

Posted 3 months ago #
bsmomma
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If getting an NHL team means getting an NBA Team, I'm down! I'd LOVE to have some NHL here!!!!

Posted 3 months ago #
Jiggers
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A new state of the art multi-use facility is a no brainer. The proposed dollar amount I read will still have the tax payers footing $200 million which is capped, but would not include new taxes and instead would be paid off through taxes and rent collected on the tenants of the new facility. The City will still have to sell bonds to help finance the arena.

Posted 3 months ago #

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