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1. JoB
   Member Profile

   not the front page because they are in a fund drive for the next two days...

   but an article i found interesting

   http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/11/mark-ames-why-finance-is-too-important-to-leave-to-larry-summers.html

   Posted 6 months ago #         

2. JoB
   Member Profile

   "By a quirk of historical bad luck, the American Left has gone two generations without understanding finance, or even caring to understand. It was the hippies who decided half a century ago that finance was beneath them, so they happily ceded the entire field—finance, business, economics, money—otherwise known as “political power”—to the other side. Walking away from the finance struggle was like that hitchhiker handing the gun back to the Manson Family."

   I want to thank the tall guy with the hat
   otherwise known as hubby here
   for this entertaining read
   and the discussion that is sure to follow

   Posted 6 months ago #         

3. JoB
   Member Profile

   btw...

   this blog is a treasure trove of information

   as are the links

   Posted 6 months ago #         

4. DBP
   Member Profile

   Here's an easy set of guidelines for how you can fight the big banks from your armchair at home:

   1) Know the difference between what you really need and what you merely want.

   If you're struggling financially, don't buy crap you don't need.
    

   2) Don't make any major purchasing decisions before talking it over with someone whose judgment you trust.

   In other words: don't buy a car right off the lot. And even after you've made up your mind to buy, sleep on it one more night. If the dealer says: "This deal will be gone tomorrow," he's probably lying.
    

   3) Don't buy anything on credit that you don't have to.

   Buying on credit always costs you more. Want something frivolous? Fine. Save up for it first. THEN blow your money on it.
    

   4) Read and understand all contracts before you sign them.

   Pencil out how much the thing's going to cost you over time and don't rely on the seller or lender to tell you whether you're making a good choice. That's not his job.
    

   5) Save up some money for a rainy day.

   With a rainy day fund, you'll have fewer financial "emergencies." And when you do have one, you won't have to resort to that credit card.
    

   Posted 6 months ago #         

5. kootchman
   Member Profile

   yes they ceded first, knowledge, then they ceded power, in some perverse sense that they could tame the largest, self preserving institution in the history of mankind, the US Federal Government into a benevolent, caring, efficient institution. Traits never observed, but often talked about during campaigns. Still, the swan song is heard liberals swoon, and we are by every measure the most ignorant, illiterate, rabble in the G-20. Tax the rich...the sum substance of current liberal economics. Genetics being what they are, the chances are good I will get my chest cracked. As healthcare is collectivized under the federal banner, access and policy will be decided by institutions big enough to afford the cost of influence. Heart surgery aisle 6.... at your local Wal Mart. Up the stream it will go, al the healthcare dollars, to the top 1/10 per cent. Sadly DBP... they don't really give a shit about retail banking... it's chump change.

   Posted 6 months ago #         

6. JanS
   Member Profile

   

   DBP...your #1 above is something I have learned in the last 6 or so years...the difference between need and want. My shopping habits have changed dramatically. Pretty good ideas all around, I say !

   Posted 6 months ago #         

7. metrognome
   Member Profile

   dang, I thought this thread was about Hugh Hefner and Playboy.

   since I'm here ... DBP, I would say you are a rampant communist and socialist and completely unAmerican if you actually plan for the future and save money rather than falling into the capitalist money trap of living way beyond your means by buying all the toys you want, esp. on credit, so the rich can get richer and the self-storage industry can continue to grow and produce more shows like 'Storage Wars'. I applaud you!

   Posted 6 months ago #         

8. redblack
   Member Profile

   

   metrognome:

   man, you have it all backwards.

   it's all about buying as much cheap crap as your meager paycheck can afford you.

   and if you have anything left over before your next paycheck - i mean government subsidy check - arrives, well, "don't blame wall street. blame yourself."

   Posted 6 months ago #         

9. JoB
   Member Profile

   "There’s a great line from Charles Portis’s anti-hippie novel, “Dog of the South” that captures the Boomers’ self-righteous disdain for “figures”:

   He would always say—boast, the way those people do—that he had no head for figures and couldn’t do things with his hands, slyly suggesting the presence of finer qualities.

   That part about the hands—that would refer to the hippies’ other great failure, turning their backs on Labor, because Labor didn’t groove with the Hippies’ Culture War. So the Left finds itself, fifty years later, dealing with the consequences of all those years of ruinous neglect of finance and labor—the consequences being powerlessness and political impotence.

   That’s why Yves Smith is so important to anyone who cares about politics and the bad direction this country is taking. In 2008, the Left suddenly discovered that although it could bray with the best of ‘em about how bad foreign wars are, and how wrong racism and sexism an homophobia are, it was caught completely and shamefully by surprise by the financial collapse of 2008. The ignorance was paralyzing, politically and intellectually. "

   Posted 6 months ago #         

10. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Job, maybe it was because labor was kicking the shit out of long hair hippies? Too busy making money in the war plants, building tanks, ships, planes, war materials.. to tolerate them? The stereotype of labor .. the hardhats... I remember that.. or the AFL-CIO pickups with American Love it of Leave It stickers? Or the peaces signs... tracks of the American chicken? Historical distortion you have.. labor never made peace with the peace movement..the "hippies" didn't turn their backs on labor..kicking the ass of a longhair was a national past time... until now.. when they are so decimated they would make friends with anyone they could find that will tolerate them. Labor in the 60"s? ha ha ha .. racist to the core, virulently anti-woman.. I was there too. Now that labor is a hollow shell ... they are pro anything that will support increased wages and benefits. They would sleep with a viper if they could control the head movement. But in a literary sense, the left does seem a bit effete and feminized with a misplaced sense of adapted superiority. Perhaps the therein lies the great contradictions...some of us won't let go of self determinism a more masculine presentation of our longer held traditions. Hippies eh? the core of capitalism... they all went back to school and got their MBA's they is now us. The Whole Earth Tool Catalogues recycled. Buckminster Fuller failed the quarterly returns test. Todays left is not the inheritor of the 60's left. It doesn't have the cajones. The 60's left was willing to leave the system, upend it (for a while anyway, it got defanged when capitalism embraced and swallowed them with greater treasures. book deals, professorships, advertising, music royalties,, etc) Today's left lives off it. Graffettti arts gets absorbed into the pre-approved Arts Council, Cascade Bike Club becomes a de facto mayoral appointment setting agenda and priority, homelessness is a condition to justify studies, municipal "structures" to "deal" with it... at least the old left transformed the economic order....creating the vast technology base of today... the new left?

    Posted 6 months ago #         

11. JoB
    Member Profile

    kootch..

    today's left still literally has the 60s cahones
    they're on/in the bodies of the protesters no-one wants to admit are holding down seats at Occupy Wall Street.

    and if you go speak with them
    you will find the kids do too.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

12. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Oh I admit it... see my new post of Occupy Seattle. They are there. But, they aren't doing anything, They are supremely good at occupying space. It's sort of like the depression era fad of flag pole sitting. Ummm?

    Posted 6 months ago #         

13. JoB
    Member Profile

    kootch...

    for a bunch of people sitting on their bums
    they have managed a good number of political victories this week.

    they have done the impossible
    they have convinced Democrats in the Senate that listening to their constituency is the right thing to do

    imagine that

    Posted 6 months ago #         

14. DBP
    Member Profile

    they have convinced Democrats in the Senate that listening to their constituency is the right thing to do

    That's a bit of a stretch, but I'll try to stay positive.

    In the meantime, don't take any wooden nickels, Jo.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

15. JoB
    Member Profile

    DBP

    it's been a surprising week in the Senate DBP

    what would you attribute that to?

    Posted 6 months ago #         

16. kootchman
    Member Profile

    What is surprising,,? Harry Reid wake up? Shoot, the finger was in wind long enough.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

17. JoB
    Member Profile

    Kootch..

    so why do you think Harry finally noticed the wind this week?

    do you think it could have anything to do with all those people mobilized in a non-election year?
    or the election results on tuesday that proved the nation really wasn't buying the right wing kool-aid any more?
    or maybe the huge transfer of money from banks to credit unions last weekend?
    all pretty much triggered by the "non-message" of Occupy Wall Street.

    Your ears are too full of right wing propaganda..
    no wonder you have trouble hearing the message.
    the senate heard it loud and clear

    if the decision to re-examine the Keystone Pipeline is any indication
    the President did too

    Posted 6 months ago #         

18. redblack
    Member Profile

    

    harry might have noticed the wind, but i doubt he'll do anything about it.

    hey, kootch, has it ever occurred to you that one of the purposes of occupy wall street is to - umm - occupy wall street? as in "squat."

    every day, those kids remind those well-heeled banksters that a lot of people in this country are starving, without health care, and being foreclosed on.

    and when righties complain about the smell of humanity surrounding the protesters, that kind of sums it all up for me.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

19. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Sure JoB..he did exactly what he has done his entire administration. He will defer national security for votes. On this very blog, all the wailing about Bush sending troops to war for "big oil" access to the Perisan oil fields. So "big oil" finds secure, North American deposits, employing American unionized, high wage, workers With the middle east gearing up for even more instability, and Obama selling offensive weapons to Isreal, UAE, Saudi Arabia like a cheap swap meet, the outcome is predictable. Can you say $200 per barrel oil? Watch the national economy when we have yet again oil supply disruption. Yea, he had to listen to two constituents, with opposing views. Did he make a decision? No. He punted,kicked the can down the road. Hoping he didn't piss off labor too much. We will get the pipeline. After the election. After we delay putting pipeline workers and construction workers back to work,then he wil count on your undying apologist excuses when he turns his back on your eco warrior crew. Your wooden nickel redemption. Not to worry though right? US Marines, Soldiers, Airman, and Sailors will get thrown back into the meat grinder to secure access to middle east oil. It is a national economic, national security imperative to have secure energy sources,... it requires a national leader to state the case and move forward. But we don't have one. we got a hack on the campaign trail, delaying, stalling, pandering for the maximum amount of votes. It's his style. I agree redblack, they are occupying. JoB .. talk to your occupiers.. they don't have the intellectual chops to do much but occupy. They are not worrying anyone. It is a feckless gesture. It's not like they are being displaced to break up scary message.. it's so the sanitation crews can go in and wash down the offal and debris, and stop the damage. Marcuse would be appalled Who's starving in this country redblack? Really. Not some anecdotal phraseology? Show me. We have food banks loaded with surplus, churches and non-profits, school lunch and breakfast programs, ... red herring. Oh yea, and food stamps. Now if they aren't redeemed for crack at .25 cents on the dollar...well, that's another story. Starving eh? Do you know what the average caloric intake is of the fattest, most overfed, diabetes afflicted adolescent population in the world is? No one in this country would tolerate starvation. That's a stretch too far.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

20. JoB
    Member Profile

    kootch...

    I am apologizing in advance.
    I am not even going to read this one.

    I read through the first few sentences and felt my brow furrow and my head begin to ache.

    i just read the closing line and it validated my decision..

    whatever you said in the middle just plain doesn't matter.

    in a real twist of irony.. the bottom right corner of my screen contains an advert for Tox-ick

    yup.. that's how this post feels this morning

    perhaps i will have more stamina tomorrow.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

21. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    Food banks loaded with surplus? My friend, you are an idiot. That's personal, and it may get cut...but it's the truth. You are so damned lucky in your life, you have no idea what the hell is out there in the real world. Go work in a food bank for a while and get off the internet for a while. It'll do you some good!

    Posted 6 months ago #         

22. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Get a grip Jan.. I make the trek monthly to one food bank..Because I am lucky I do so. I support a faith based charity to the tune of $ 150 per month, every month, specifically for food, more for the other missions. Take that! Oh yea.. and a monthly to Animal Friends. Like most people do. I repeat no one will ever tolerate starvation .. or hyperbole which is discrediting at best. Who do you think shows up at the NW Kidney Foundation annual breakfasts and makes the pledges or donations? Hmmm? A lot of "naked capitalists"... no shame here.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

23. casaboba
    Member Profile

    Forum Topic: Civility, Candor, Courtesy

    Post below by JanS (1 week ago):

    "I am too kind to tell you what I think of you on here. I can't do it...simply not possible. I respect the editors of the blog here too much."

    So much for doing what one says.......

    Posted 6 months ago #         

24. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    casaboba...sometimes one has to do what one has to do. When someone insists that they have all the knowledge, sometimes one has to call them out. So sorry if I offended you.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

25. kootchman
    Member Profile

    I do hope it is not cut Jan... your free speech is essential... and telling. Tis the vexation of the left that they can't impose their holy sense of entitlement and rightness on others. They impuslively, reflexively, need to mandate the moral compass of others, or worse, employ agents of authority to do so. My compass, my path. Fighting hard every day to preserve it. So bitter Jan... it shows. I would be enlightened though if i agreed with you..

    Posted 6 months ago #         

26. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    Kman...yes, you are a wonderful man...forgive me. But could you tell me which food banks have an unlimited surplus? Local ones...I think lots of hungry families with hungry children would like to know. Just for the record, of course...

    Posted 6 months ago #         

27. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Better one for ya Jan... you list all the food banks that have closed for lack of donations of food? Want a list of all the food banks in Seattle.. all of the nutritional programs, all the canned food and dry food drives that Seattle responds to so graciously? When the food banks release a help to the press.. list one that closed because Seattle didn't respond. I don't have the answer, it's a wild guess, but I will look after I get back from an errand.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

28. casaboba
    Member Profile

    JanS,
    Your offensive post (#21) is not calling someone out but calling them a name. There IS a difference.

    "My friend, you are an idiot."

    Please just follow 'the rules' you profess to hold in high esteem.
    Thanks!

    Posted 6 months ago #         

29. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    you answer my question first...why should I let you off the hook by deflecting to me? Seattle responds graciously, esp. West Seattle because we realize that there's a need. And that's it...THERE'S A NEED ! If there was a surplus of food, why would there be a need?

    http://www.nwharvest.org/2011/11/whats-our-greatest-challenge.html

    http://westseattleblog.com/2011/11/help-for-the-holidays-white-center-food-bank-turkey-drive

    http://www.westseattleherald.com/2011/09/21/news/local-food-banks-hit-hard-budget-cuts-needs-incre

    No, Kootch, they do not close...they make do with what they have and appreciate the donations from the community.But surplus? I'm pretty doubtful about that.

    And..I suppose I should get emotional and fall all over you at the mention of Northwest Kidney Center because I deal with them on a daily basis and 3X a week on dialysis? I should be forever grateful, I suppose?

    I am not "entitled"...I live a frugal life, and work with what I have. I am not bitter. That's your opinion. I am vexed, yes..but bitter? Nope. And what the hell does "mandating the moral compass" have to do with what I said...that you were wrong when you said that there is a surplus of food in food banks? And for you to prove it? If you're going to make a statement, you should back it up, it's that simple. You deal with your own "moral compass", and I'll deal with mine.

    to Casaboba...would you have preferred if I had said that his statement was idiotic? Yes, perhaps I should have said that.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

30. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Didn't ask you to. Children are not starving in Seattle. It is a generous community. The need gets filled.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

31. casaboba
    Member Profile

    JanS,
    In post #29, last paragraph of this thread, you feign a reply; I will suggest to you (again) that it would serve you well that you "Walk your talk" as you wrote in an earlier (recent) WSB Forum Topic called "Civility, Candor, Courtesy" (Posts #'s 2,22,30). Name calling serves no one. Thanks!

    Posted 6 months ago #         

32. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    Casaboba...I corrected myself. And I will be the first to admit on here that I am not perfect. And you? Thanks for pointing out my shortcomings. I'm truly sorry I disappointed you.Do you have any comments on the topic at hand?Or is correcting someone the only thing that interests you?

    Oh, and thanks for keeping track :)

    Posted 6 months ago #         

33. casaboba
    Member Profile

    JanS,
    The only person one needs to please is oneself. If you are pleased by your postings that is enough. As for my own, I am cool with them. Namaste.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

34. redblack
    Member Profile

    

    you know, kootch, you're right. there's a big difference between a kid going to bed hungry and actual starvation.

    while starvation isn't rampant in america, a lot of people are hungry and malnourished.

    and it shouldn't happen here.

    what's more important though, is that while your generosity is needed, private charity doesn't come anywhere near filling the need.

    sorry, but we need government programs to carry most of the load. and because of budget cuts, it just isn't happening.

    Posted 6 months ago #         

35. kootchman
    Member Profile

    Trying to be all things for all people,... I agree actually. They should focus on essentials, core, "only government" can do it issues. A question never heard in government... "Is this neccesary?"

    Posted 6 months ago #         

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