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1. anonyme
   Member Profile

   This issue does not affect West Seattleites only, but I have already encountered a number of WS seniors who are sharing this terrible experience with Metro.

   Seniors & disabled folks buy a reduced fare permit annually from Metro. Additional money must be paid to ride, either in the form of cash or a monthly or annual sticker or pass. With the conversion to ORCA, many seniors & disable people are being told - falsely - that the annual sticker/pass is no longer available. This forces them to buy the much more expensive monthly passes - which increased in price by 100% as of January 1st. None of the regular fares saw such a dramatic increase. To add insult to injury, s&d's are also being told that they must travel downtown each and every month and get their sticker/pass in person at Jackson St. station. This is what I was told by several Metro 'customer service' reps. However, when the King County Omsbudsman's office called per my request, they were told that the upgrade could be made by phone. All other passes can be purchased online, but no such convenience allowed for seniors.

   I wonder how many seniors & disabled folks who already have plenty of issues to deal with (in addition to poverty) have been taken advantage of with these tactics? The most innocent explanation (innocent, not acceptable) is pure incompetence. I'm not so sure. What is troubling is that, just like the big bank bailouts, it is the most vulnerable of our citizens who are being victimized by misinformation. Does Metro think we are too old or broken to demand fair treatment? If so, they thought wrongly.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

2. LandO
   Member Profile

   Seniors with Orca cards CAN add monthly and yearly passes online, over the phone, and through the mail.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

3. metrognome
   Member Profile

   I would like to provide a different perspective on this issue; in the interest of full disclosure, as my screen name implies, I am a retired Metro employee. Sorry this reply is so long, but this is a very complicated issue. The bottom line is that Metro subsidizes rides for senior and disabled riders than any other local transit agency.
   First, 'S&D's' qualify for a Regional Reduced Fare Permit (RRFP) based either on age or a qualifyig disability. There is a $3 admin fee to issue an RRFP. 'Permit' is a key word as the permit has no fare value by itself; it merely identifies the holder as being eligible for the reduced fare at participating transit agencies throughout the Puget Sound. Metro pioneered the the joint agency RRFP over 30 years ago, shortly after the feds required reduced fares. There is no need to renew the permit every year unless a temporary permit was issued based on guidelines jointly adopted by those agencies. For information on the permit itself: http://metro.kingcounty.gov/tops/accessible/reduced_fare_permit.html
   Second, each transit agency sets their own reduced fare structure. The feds require transit agencies receiving certain federal $$ to charge qualifying 'S&D's' no more than the average peak hour fare during off-peak hours; during peak hours, everyone can be charged peak fares. Historically, Metro has heavily subsidized the reduced fare well beyond the federal requirements. Based on current fares, Metro could charge a reduced fare of about $1.25 during off-peak hours and $2.25 to $2.75 during peak hours.
   Prior to the ORCA card, S&D's could either pay cash or buy a monthly or annual fare sticker for their RRFP; the annual sticker used to be 12 times the monthly sticker cost but a few years ago, the cost was reduced to 11 times the monthly cost, giving the rider one month free.
   When the regional PugetPass system was introduced over a decade ago, Metro stayed with the fare sticker rather than raising the pass prices to meet the PugetPass 'break-even point' (the number of rides one has to take before getting to 'ride free' for the rest of the month; i.e. the cost of the pass divided by the face value of the per trip fare.) The RRFP break-even used to be 15 rides; now it is 24. The break-even for a full fare pass is 36; if Metro used this break-even point, the monthly RRFP sticker cost would be $27 rather than $18.
   However, this extra subsidy meant that the fare sticker was not part of the PugetPass program and was therefore 'Metro-only.' An RRFP holder with a Metro fare sticker riding another local transit system had to either pay cash for that ride or buy a PugetPass with the (reduced) face value of that ride instead of buying Metro's fare sticker.
   This is important only because ORCA is based on the PugetPass fare structure; Metro's decision to maintain the extra subsidy made the RRFP transition to the ORCA card more difficult as every other paricipating agency switched their reduced fare passes to the 36 ride break-even point for their reduced fares.
   When someone with an RRFP is deciding what type of monthly fare media to buy, they need to consider whether they ride Metro only or whether they ride Sound, Pierce or Community Transit as well and buy the pass/load their ORCA card with the product that best fits their travel pattern.
   Lastly, it is unfortunate if Metro/ORCA staff gave you incorrect information or misunderstood your question. Generally, information on websites is more reliable as it goes through an aproval proces, although it may not be detailed enough for some questions. RRFP ORCA cards are available at limited locations because, unlike regular ORCA cards, they require a picture if the holder is under 65. Also, the limited distribution is to reduce fraud as someone with an RRFP can ride for $18 per month rather than $99 for a full fare two-zone, peak hour pass.
   The website I cited above includes the following:
   - If you purchase monthly Reduced Fare passes, you will need to get an ORCA Regional Reduced Fare Permit by July, 2010. Starting that month, Metro will no longer sell monthly Reduced Fare pass stickers.
   - For more information call the Metro RRFP HelpLine at 206-205-9185 for a pre-recorded message. You can also leave a question at this phone number. Someone will respond to you in one business day.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

4. anonyme
   Member Profile

   I have been told by several Metro customer service agents, as well as the people at the ORCA hotline, that monthly "stickers" are not available online, only by phone. I had previously been told by several agents that they were available only at Jackson St. station. My main concern is that I've now spoken to a number of seniors who have been given exactly the same story, so it's not only my experience. If completely different information is being given by each employee (which is absolutely the case) that is yet another problem. I actually speak, write, hear and think quite well, thank you. The King County Omsbudsman who called on my behalf was also told that monthly stickers can only be purchased by phone. Is he too senile to understand English as well? Thank you for the extensive Metro history, but it is irrelevant for the most part, just as the information on the website is extensive but does not offer good, practical information. The issue remains that there is widespread confusion WITHIN METRO and the resulting disinformation is extremely harmful to vulnerable citizens. Metrognome, I'm sure you think you're being helpful, but as a Metro insider I would suggest that your view from the other side is limited.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

5. anonyme
   Member Profile

   LandO, when I discovered that annual passes WERE in fact available online (the Jackson St. rep told me they had been eliminated entirely and that only monthly passes would be available going forward) I called Metro and was told that because I'd already renewed my annual pass in December I could no longer add an annual pass to my ORCA. They stated the purchases must be made at the same time. I have been given so much conflicting information that it is impossible to know what's real.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

6. anonyme
   Member Profile

   Dear God in heaven, it only gets worse.

   Following the above posts, I again signed into my ORCA account to verify that I'd examined all the possibilities offered. There was no option for adding a monthly pass. NONE. Just for the hell of it, I clicked on "update autoload". According to that screen, I was set up for autoload even though I did not recall ever doing so. I called Metro again. Oh boy. The rep told me that she had no idea why it said that, just that the system was full of "quirks". She said that autoload could not be done online, that she would have to mail physical documents to be signed and returned. When I pointed out to her that I was looking right at a screen that offered "set up autoload" she had no answer. I then explained that I'd been denied the opportunity to buy an annual pass in December, and that two days ago another Metro rep told me that it was too late to get one now, that the annual pass had to be purchased at the same time as the RRFP renewal. The person currently on the phone told me I'd been misinformed and offered to add an annual pass to my account immediately, then and there, on the phone. I asked what would happen at the end of the year with the excess, as I've already paid two individual months and my permit expires in November. She put me on hold for a while, and when she came back COMPLETELY REVERSED WHAT SHE'D JUST SAID!!!!!!!!!! Now she said I could NOT buy an annual pass, which is what I was told the other day. I explained that I tried to buy an annual at the time of renewal and was denied; she said they were not available then, which I've also heard before. "Metro was still trying to decide what to do in December". So, again - WHY THE HELL SHOULD I HAVE TO PAY DOUBLE FOR METRO'S MESS???????? You can't have an option available one day and not the next. You get your effing plan straight, and then go public. This has been my point all along. Why should I and every S/D who renewed in December have to pay double all year because Metro was, and continues to be, a complete MESS? I encourage any senior or disabled person who is experiencing the same problems to call the King County Ombsbudsman at 206-263-9242. Also call (and/or write) Dow Constantine at 206-296-4040.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

7. LandO
   Member Profile

   I think that a lot of the confusion stems from the fact that there are so many different options in play:

   old reduced fare permits, ORCA reduced fare permits, monthly stickers vs. ORCA monthly reduced fare passes, phased out annual stickers, ORCA annual passes, and temporary vs. permanent cards.

   Also, anonyme, to find the reduced fare monthly pass online, click your card number, click on add value, agency pass, and you'll see an option for Metro Reduced Fare pass for $18.00 unless you already have the specific month loaded on your card. I tried it before and it worked, at least then.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

8. anonyme
   Member Profile

   That's exactly what I did, and the $18 option does not display. I seem to recall that it did display at one time, but not now. Which is why I investigated to see if autoload was somehow already set up, thereby interfering with the options displayed. My online account seems to indicate that autoload is set up, although it is difficult to say for sure. Metro says no. If the monthly option does not display until the current month expires, that means that there is at least one day when you cannot use your pass due to the 24 hour 'pending' period for loading new value. None of this makes any sense whatsoever.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

9. Jo
   Member Profile

   I am so friggin' confused about this Orca Card.
   I'm a senior, no car so rely on Metro for getting to work and shopping.
   I now have a Regional Reduced Fare Permit. Think I paid around $8 for it 5 years ago. With this permit, I now (with recently inceased fare) pay $.75 per trip. I transfer once to and from work.
   Haven't got my Orca Card yet because haven't found the time to traipse down to either the Westlake Customer Service place, or Metro's office in Pioneer Square (which I resent having to do, by the way).
   So.....when I do get my card, do I load whatever amount I want into it, do I pay $18 per month, renewable each month whether used up or not, or.....
   See! Confused!
   Simple answer, please
   Thanks.

   Posted 2 years ago #         

10. metrognome
    Member Profile

    Jo -- the simple answer is that if you are using an RRFP and paying cash now, you do not need an ORCA card at all (see below). However, depending on how often you ride, you may save money by getting an ORCA card

    If you decide you want to get an ORCA card because of how often you ride or so you don't have to have correct change, you have two options:
    - use it as a pass and load it with the $18 monthly reduced fare pass. This is the best option if you take more than 22 one-way trips a month on Metro (your trip to work with the transfer is only one trip). It is your option as to whether to load it with a pass each month. If you really want to save $$, you could buy an annual RRFP pass for $99, which is less than the cost of 6 monthly passes (which basically means you would ride for free for 6 months and save $117 a year over buying 12 monthly passes); or
    - use it as an e-purse and load it with a set amount of cash, i.e. $20. When you tap it against the card reader on the bus, 75 cents will be deducted from the $20; if you transfer within the specified time, when you tap the card on the reader on the second bus, you should not be charged a fare. When the balance gets low, you would recharge it on-line with more cash.

    In either case, you should be able to reload your card on-line if the system is working correctly. As there appears to be a problem with reloading RRFP's, you may want to wait a while to get an ORCA card since you don't really seem to need one. Since you are a senior, your RRFP does not need a picture and you can exchange your RRFP for an ORCA card for free at either Westlake Tunnel Station or King Street Center at 2/Jackson. Both locations are open on Saturdays thru the end of February. You can also mail it in (see below) altho that means you would be without your permit for a few days.

    This is from the website I posted in my previous comment:
    Regional Reduced Fare Permits and ORCA
    Do you need an ORCA RRFP card?
    Yes, if you
    •Ride the bus or train frequently.
    •Transfer between Metro and Sound Transit or other transit services.
    •Don’t always have the exact fare.
    •Want to buy a monthly or annual reduced fare pass (like the old-style pass stickers).

    No, if you
    •Travel on Metro only.
    •Plan to pay your fare with cash.
    •Ride Metro only once in awhile and don’t mind paying cash fare. (“Metro only” transfers will be available for cash-paying customers.) If so, you can continue to use your existing RRFP card.

    How to Exchange Your Card

    You can trade in your old-style Senior or Permanent Regional Reduced Fare Permit for an ORCA Regional Reduced Fare Permit at any time.

    Just mail or bring in your old permit, and we’ll give you an ORCA Reduced Fare Permit at no charge.

    Seniors may trade in their old-style Regional Reduced Fare Permits at our Customer Service offices.

    Non-senior Permanent Regional Reduced Fare Permits are available at the King Street Center Customer Service office only.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

11. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    Hahahaha... You guys finally figured it out what I already have known since Jan.1st. How..I have a life-term disabilty and since I haven't been able to get rehired for over 8 months now, it's not feesable for me to even think about using an ORCA card. I use cash only up front and show my Reduced Regional Fare Permit to the driver on Metro which is .75 only. I got my R.R.F.P. at Metro in the Pioneer Square offices. They know what they are doing and they don't care. It's Seattle local government not thinking *hit out before it is put in place. Typical mofos here.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

12. Jo
    Member Profile

    Thanks for the clear, concise explanation Metrognome.
    Now to trek to one of the customer servce centers. I hstitate to mail in my pass because I work 4 days a week, and really don't want to pay full fare until I get it back.
    Again, thanks.
    Jo

    Posted 2 years ago #         

13. metrognome
    Member Profile

    Jo -- you're welcome. This is a complicated issue as the answer is so dependent on each person's travel patterns.

    Saturday may be your best bet; you might call before you go to see what the lines are like (553-3000.) BTW, as people who are exchanging an RRFP for an ORCA RRFP do not have to pay the $5 fee, there is no hurry to do this before the Mar. 1 'free' ORCA deadline.

    King Street Center
    Saturdays, January 30 - February 27
    8 a.m. - 5 p.m.

    Westlake Station
    Saturdays, January 30 - February 27
    9 a.m. - 5:30 p.m.

    Posted 2 years ago #         

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