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Men in the public eye/politics

Started 11 months ago by OwnerMary
Latest reply from kootchman

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OwnerMary
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OK... so Clinton, Edwards, Spitzer, Sanford, Schwarzenegger, Strauss-Kahn, ... Tiger,and now Weiner (the idiot in NY), can't seem to keep it in their pants. This list of the misbehaving just keeps growing. Don't you get it, foremost, its not right. But if that were not enough .... there is a good chance today, you will get caught - and I applaud the press and others for outing all of you. Maybe it's time to honor your vows and build some moral integrity. While most of the men caught are having affairs with women (so women are not without reproach), but so far political women have not been caught. Come on guys, this is NOT ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR. Whether its having sex with someone not your spouse, or sending pix of you in your shorts, THATS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Posted 11 months ago #
DP
Member Profile

On behalf of all men everywhere, I'd like to apologize.

But since we're on the subject, and since I can't seem to control myself, I'm enclosing a picture of me in my shorts.

(Sorry in advance.)

Posted 11 months ago #
DP
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I have more . . .

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
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owner Mary..

i think the sexual indiscretions of married men should be left for them to sort out with their wives... public figures included.

it's none of our business and in spite of all of the insinuations to the contrary.. it has very little to do with their ability to perform their public duties...

that said.. i don't have much respect for cheating spouses.. period.

Posted 11 months ago #
chrisma
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Edit: I realize that my original post here was off topic, so I am removing it.

Posted 11 months ago #
EmmyJane
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Couple thoughts/questions:
1) Does cheating on your spouse/significant other make you any less effective at your job?
2) Is it any of our business what politicians do during their private time?
3)Is there a correlation between men in power and men who cheat?

My thoughts are 1) Probably not, 2) not unless it affects their job, see number 1, and 3) I think there might be. I don't have any facts, studies, or basis to come to this conclusion so don't ask for my 20 page research paper on the subject, but it does seem there might be a correlation between the traits that draw someone toward a political career and the traits that cause someone to cheat on their partner.

I think that if all this crap weren't as sensationalized as it was, maybe we could concentrate on the bigger issues and CNN/FOX, MSNBC would be talking about something more important right now. It will have to start with not feeding the frenzy.

Just my two cents.

Posted 11 months ago #
KatherineL
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Emmy Jane, I mostly agree with your conclusions. I do have to wonder, though. Does feeling that you can get away with cheating on your spouse maybe correlate to the feeling that you could get away with appropriating a few thousands of public money for private use? Or other ethical cheats?

Posted 11 months ago #
flowerpetal
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I've not followed the Weiner escapades. But I do believe we jump a chasm when we presume cheating. Many couples have understandings about their "extracurricular" activities. A local prominent couple comes to mind.

Posted 11 months ago #
OwnerMary
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THANK YOU KatherineL. Yes -- men who choose to not honor their marital commitments -- thats between the spouses. However, these men are in the public eye - a choice they made. Thus, their screwing around is open for the public eye. What makes these all so despicable is that ALL OF THEM denied (lied about) the affairs or their behavior. Seems to me that if you cheat and lie to your spouse, you will lie and cheat as a politician. You can choose to forgive your husband if he has cheated.... but public servants and those who seek the public trust by being in the public eye, should be held to a higher standard and thus, suffer greater consequences. Seems to me that the public is letting these guys off easy and maybe if we didnt, there would be a greater deterrent toward such behavior.
I only hope that The Wiener is drummed out of office. He clearly has deep rooted problems.

Posted 11 months ago #
Jiggers
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This is so lame.

Posted 11 months ago #
maplesyrup
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meh, I don't care.

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
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OwnerMary..
i think it goes without saying that a man who will cheat on his spouse has already crossed the ethical barrier that makes lying about it pretty much a given.
KatherineL and EmmyJane .. i think the sense of privilege that comes with what used to be public service and is now some kind of blood sport for most politicians does make them more prone to sexual excess.

I think their wives should get them all dogs because it is clear to me that they need massive doses of adoration

Posted 11 months ago #
cclarue
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I remember reading something about the percentage of men who cheat relating directly to their income level the higher the income the higher percentage of cheating because the men travel more and have more opprotunity in general to cheat

Posted 11 months ago #
jamminj
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just not understanding the 'outrage' as if this is something new. Think there wasn't cheating before Twitter? Is it because he's a politician that causes such anger? Or that he cheated? If its the latter, maybe everyone should be scrutinized as much.... CEO's, managers, heck even your bank teller. If he is going to lie to his spouse, maybe he's stealing money!!!! Maybe like random drug tests... maybe we should have random twitter/email outings.

Hey its time for your moratily test - all your electronic info will now be public!!!!

Posted 11 months ago #
DP
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Some perspective here . . .

Let's take two extremes of conjugal morality in politics: Clinton and Bush II.

During his term as President, Bill Clinton was doing an intern right there in the White House. Then he lied about it to everyone. Nasty, stupid, and wrong.

Morally speaking, George W. Bush was the opposite of Clinton in many ways. Faithful to his wife (far as we know), said his prayers every night, etc.

Now let's look at their respective records.

Clinton doesn't have a huge record of success, but still, lots of poor and middle class people felt he was on their side. Republicans hated him on principle, 'natch, but he did a few things that pleased even them, like balancing the budget and reforming welfare.

So much for the lecherous Mr. C. And how did the sexually upright Mr. B fare during his term? Oh my, what a busy boy he was! Among other repugnancies, he:

● started a war on false pretenses

● suspended habeas corpus indefinitely

● ramped up "extraordinary renditions"*

● approved illegal wiretaps

● approved torture and extrajudicial killings

and, perhaps worst of all,

● told us these were necessary measures in the (more or less permanent) war on terror.

So yes, while I'd be the first to admit that lechery is not a desirable quality in a politician (or anyone else), still, given a choice between two politicians, one who's a garden-variety letch and one who's a wife-respecting, Sunday-school going torturer, warmonger, and subverter of the Constitution . . .

. . . gee, it's a tough call but . . .

I'm gonna have to go with the lecher.

—Sorry, George. Maybe God will forgive you for torturing people and wiping your a__ with the Constitution, but I just can't.

Guess I'm old-fashioned that way.

*************************************************************************************

*To be fair, extraordinary rendition existed under Clinton. It was little used by him, however.

I should point out that Iraq suffered considerably under Clinton-era sanctions as well.

See, it's not that I think Clinton was a blessing for the world, exactly. He just wasn't as much of a curse as George W.

Posted 11 months ago #
TDe
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Most of your electronic info IS or has the potential to be public already, so it might behoove politicians to behave themselves, given the public's general dislike of such behavior. That being said, I really don't care to hear about all the personal stuff politicians do, as long as what they do is between consenting adults. If their wives put up with cheating of any kind, I feel sorry for them but it's really none of my business. I care a whole lot more about what these elected officials do for the people who elected them.

I find it much more troubling when elected officias like Weiner somehow think they can get away with such weirdness when they broadcast on the internet. I wonder about their intelligence.

Posted 11 months ago #
DP
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. . . as long as what they do is between consenting adults.

Who is this so-called consenting adult anyway?

I've yet to meet one.

Posted 11 months ago #
365Stairs
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Were it not for that tragic day in 1963...we would probably not be speaking so fondly of JFK either. Look at how many different stories of womanizing came out about him after the fact...but we still put his public persona on a pedastal today. He did some great things and not so great things in his term. Then..his brother is involved in national scandal 1969 and 40 yrs. later and we revere him upon his death for all the great public works he did since that incident....

Memories...like the people who own them.. have selective amenesia too.

Posted 11 months ago #
RarelyEver
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i very much disagree with the notion that cheating means only "having intercourse with someone not your spouse/committed partner". cheating starts the moment an individual starts flirting with someone else, and it's a slippery slope from there.

i don't understand politician's spouses who "stick to their man/woman" - once a cheater, always a cheater. but i guess it always depends on the basis of your marriage - did you get married to gain status and/or wealth, or did you get married for love?

i also concur that if a politician cheats in his personal life he'll likely have no quarrels cheating in his public duties. cheaters are scum.

Posted 11 months ago #
RarelyEver
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just found a great definition for cheating:

"If your SO [significant other] would be deeply hurt, ticked off or kick you to the curb for doing it ... what difference does it make what you call it. Get permission first."

amen to that.

Posted 11 months ago #
Lindsey
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Just because two people are married doesn't mean that you automatically know the exact boundaries they've set and the nature of their relationship. Sexuality and relationships are not that black and white. It's obvious here by the different definitions of "cheating" that we all have. Each couple defines cheating for themselves. Let's not pretend we know what that is.

I think it's fair for folks to be upset that he lied to the public, repeatedly.

But basically, I don't care what my representatives do with their sex lives so long as they don't care what I do with mine.

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
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rarely ever
great rule of thumb

Posted 11 months ago #
metrognome
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Anything that gets Sarah Palin and her 'tour' out of the headlines is ok with me. Esp. since my juvenile sense of humor is having fun with the Weinermobile headlines.

And, this is a much bigger issue than just pols. This is about anyone, male or female, who seeks out or otherwise finds themselves in a position of power. It is pretty much inevitable that they will then exert that power and their 'charisma' will attract those who want power exerted over them or who want to feel important by being near powerful people (religious leaders also seem prone, pardon the pun, to sexual power games.) And then, there is that 10 mins. of fame thing.

Frankly, in our society, I doubt that an 'honest' politician (by whatever definition) would last long as s/he would not be able to bring home the bacon that constituents demand (and criticize pols from other parties for doing the same thing.)

I also think the social engineering that religious organizations have achieved over the centuries regarding marriage as a fundamental institution of a civilized society for raising children is in direct conflict with how humans actually function. I am not intending to excuse someone for breaking their wedding vows, but the pressure to be 'normal' by being married, having 2.3 kids, etc. is enormous, esp. for elected officials (there seems to be more forgiveness for Hollywood stars, rock stars, religious leaders, etc.)

Of course, a topic this complex is best discussed over several intoxicating beverages rather than here ... of course, that may lead to inappropriate flirting, sexting, tweeting hottttt pictures, etc.

btw 365Stairs -- to be fair, let's include an R or two. Since we just celebrated the anniversary of D-Day, how about Eisenhower? Can you imagine what would have happened to him (and the war effort) if he received the scrutiny that afflicts famous people today?

Posted 11 months ago #
metrognome
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forgot to include this link in my earlier post; if you follow the other links in the story, it adds up to an interesting discussion ...

http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/17/the-caligula-effect-why-powerful-men-compulsively-cheat/

Posted 11 months ago #
jamminj
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http://www.salon.com/news/anthony_weiner_dny/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/06/07/weiner

"This is just pure mucking around in the private, consensual, unquestionably legal private sexual affairs of someone for partisan gain, voyeuristic fun and the soothing fulfillment of judgmental condemnation. "

"Yes, Anthony Weiner lied -- about something that is absolutely nobody's business but his and his wife's. If you're not his wife, you have absolutely no legitimate reason to want to know about -- let alone pass judgment on -- what he does in his private sexual life with other consenting adults. "

"Can one even imagine how much different -- and better -- our political culture would be if our establishment media devoted even a fraction of the critical scrutiny and adversarial energy it devoted to the Weiner matter to things that actually matter? "

Posted 11 months ago #
metrognome
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jamminj -- nice quotes. I would add that the only reason the media plays it up, partisanship aside, is that we, the citizens, read it. I've purposely avoided reading any more than I have to on-line so my 'clicks' can't be added up to justify more such schlock. Not that that does any good ...

Posted 11 months ago #
chrisma
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Just a few small points of contention with the assertion above that Rep. Wiener's activities here were "private, consensual, and unquestionably legal":

I've heard it reported in several places that at least some of the young women that Rep. Wiener sent photos of himself to, were not specifically consenting recipients. Now, it's easy enough to block or otherwise cut contact with someone on the internet, so it would seem that if these women didn't do that, perhaps the photos weren't THAT unwelcome. But, it also seems to me that Rep. Wiener was quite possibly straying into harassment territory with his activities, which undermines the "consensual, and unquestionably legal" point.

As far as private, well, everyone should know that nothing on the internet is private, and it's there forever. These may have been so called "private messages" but Wiener himself admits that he wasn't hacked, so these communications are only as private as the participants are willing to keep them. It sounds like several of the women came forward with their stories, and the "evidence" to back it up, and for better or worse, that's news, folks.

Just as big a deal was made about Tiger Woods' extramarital activities when they came to light, and there were no partisan points to be scored there.

If Rep. Wiener had manned up and told the truth on day one, the media might already be on to other stories by now.

Posted 11 months ago #
maplesyrup
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Maybe if more investment bankers had last names like Wiener we'd be paying attention to the *real* scandals.

Posted 11 months ago #
chrisma
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Maybe if our media outlets weren't wholly owned propaganda machines for the corporate interests of the companies that own them, then there might be some attention paid to the "real" scandals.

But, for now it's bread and circuses.

Posted 11 months ago #
maplesyrup
Member Profile

I don't know if I agree that the media outlets are wholly to blame. They provide what's good for business. If the majority of people respond to Casey Anthony stories and (insert Butthead voice) heh heh...Wieners, that's what the media will provide. When people hear about government officials meeting in secret with investment bankers to plan the handing over of piles of money, eyes glaze over.

Posted 11 months ago #
Genesee Hill
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365Stairs, and all:

Let us all know when you find the "perfect" person!

Posted 11 months ago #
acemotel
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Whatever you want to call it, a tip for the gentlemen: I don't know any women in my circle of friends who find a photo of the male member to be enticing, inviting, exciting, or seductive. It must be a guy thing. I mean, really.

Posted 11 months ago #
OwnerMary
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To Jiggers - "You sound insecure." I didnt deserve that (a personal attack) -- as you dont know me. Below the belt debating is cause for a foul and you fouled out.

Posted 11 months ago #
OwnerMary
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While women do cheat (men are not always cheating with men), so far I cant name a woman who was first in the public eye who was caught cheating. Lindseay -- I agree that cheating in my mind is not limited to sex, but rather can also be an affair of the heart or other emotional liaisons. Spouses come to an agreement about their lifestyles. Some choose to not be exclusive, even in marriage. That is their choice and I am not arguing that society should change that.
Rather my opposition to what is happening are public individuals being dishonest about their private lives and in many cases overtly lying and covering up their dishonesty. If you are leading an honest life -- dont lie about it. This can be as simple as leading their constituents into believing that they are leading a conventional married life. Do you think that Clinton would have gotten elected if he had said he was a swinger? Do you think the Schwarzenegger would have gotten elected if he was a known womenizer? I disagree that we should allow our politicians to be dishonest in one area and "clean" in another. How am I to know which end of the honest-dishonest they are on issues of interest to me?
Weiner's wife was not present at his media event, as I suspect that she didnt sign on for a spouse that conducted him in such a manner.
Quit blaming the media. The media only serves up the gruel that the audience seeks -- if you turned off your TV to the media, and others followed, the media would be different. Thats what the public wants. If you dont like US media, try reading/watching the media in other countries (its readily available today on the web both in papers and visual media).
If we dont expect more of ourselfs and our elected's -- we might as well not bother with liberty and justice for all.

Posted 11 months ago #
jamminj
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"I disagree that we should allow our politicians to be dishonest in one area and "clean" in another."

I guess my argument is, why are you limiting your morality to only one group of individuals. Take for example the people that are reporting the news... how many of them are engaged in immoral behaviour, yet we 'believe' the news they present us???

And how about big businesses... how many deals are made because CEO's had indiscretions?? Yet where is the scrutiny??

I have known couples in loveless sexless non-caring marriages... I think that is just as immoral as well, do we chastise those people as well. Talk about destroying the sanctity of marriage.

Guess I just don't understand the need to know about anyone else's sex life, or lack of when it comes to ones job. Do you ask your doctor before a surgery if you can check his email and twitter account for any indiscretions??? If it matters, why don't you?

Posted 11 months ago #
jamminj
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"Schwarzenegger would have gotten elected if he was a known womenizer?"

ummm, if you knew anything about Ahhhnorld, this was already widely known.

Posted 11 months ago #
dobro
Member Profile

"Do you think that Clinton would have gotten elected if he had said he was a swinger?"

I don't know how old you are but if you were paying attention during Bill Clinton's first campaign for prez you'd remember Gennifer Flowers. If not, Google her. Clinton was questioned on 60 Minutes about his extra marital relationships. And, by golly, he was elected- twice.

Posted 11 months ago #
charlabob
Member Profile

Once again, the right painte a bullseye on Weiner and again they scored.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/08/nyregion/conservative-group-scanned-weiners-posts-warned-women.html?_r=1&hp

No matter what foibles gave them the opening, the rest of this is garbage.

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

"No matter what foibles gave them the opening, the rest of this is garbage."

Yup!

If Weiner had been reported and charged with sexual harassment.. that would be news.

.. ok.. public admission.. maybe he was..
the thing is that I have NOT been follwing this whole Weiner thing ..
never having found weiner jokes all that enticing...

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

owner Mary..

"While women do cheat (men are not always cheating with men), so far I cant name a woman who was first in the public eye who was caught cheating>"

do you think that's because women are smarter?

or simply more aware that the privilege of power doesn't extend to the "weaker" sex?

TEEHEEHEE... TITTER .. TITTER...

sorry.. couldn't resist such a blatant invitation
old libber that i am :)

With a name like Weiner, weiner should have been aware that anything involving his male member would be more than fair game.

but perhaps that member of his constituency just wasn't thinking? ;->

Posted 11 months ago #
OwnerMary
Member Profile

JamminJ -- You raise an interesting point. What I am differentiating is that elected officials and celebrities choose to live their lives in the public eye. Most others (corp exec's, bankers, etc) dont. While I believe that anyone that has influence over others should lead an honest life, obviously others dont. What I mean by that is -- walk your talk. Do what you say. It seems to me that our world would be much better off if that were the case. Dont lecture me on perfection, as we know no human is perfect.
Yes, I remember Jennifer Flowers. Because nothing was proven, and Hillary vouched for him, I feel that most women felt that if she was ok with it, then who where they to judge. If in fact that was the case, then dont throw a stone. However, do you think he would have been elected if he had responded to that first qustion about Jennifer by saying -- Yes, Hillary and I have an open marriage and we both can have affairs with others as long as it is discrete (assuming that is their deal). Same with Arnold. Doubt that they would have gone very far in politics or their marriages, but they would have been living honestly and not in the closet. Creeping around and hiding what you do is going to get you caught... and that's what I am reacting to. IF Weiner had not lied so overtly in his 1st press conference, and rather said, what he said in the 2nd and added that his wife was ok with it and was there in his support - case closed, no beef. Thats not what happened and wife is absent.
JoB -- titter...titter. Wish it were so, but know its not.

Posted 11 months ago #
365Stairs
Member Profile

Regarding the reference to finding a "perfect" person...nobody is asking for the unattainable..through election processes, we evaluate people who don't mind being in the public eye 100% of the time to be the best possible representative for us with a sound moral compass - while maintaining their best possible self!

Elected public officials, representing the people who elected them, should accept or willingly be held to higher standards for their public decisions and public actions, and accept public judgements from the people - until such time as they are not public anymore.

If they want to make things better for their people, then they should be better people...

There..."Fantasy Soap Box Island" is now off the air...

It's possible the un-traceable telegraph or other forms of secret coded lanuague will make a come back...

There will probably be much reduced and reserved tweeting, texting, Fbooking coming from our esteemed reps going forward...

Posted 11 months ago #
miws
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Okay, so now we have Wiener caught in an affair.

Who's next?

Boehner?

Mike

Posted 11 months ago #
JanS
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as long as it's nothing that involves both Boehner and Weiner

yes, I can be 12 yo at times ;-) snicker, snicker...

Posted 11 months ago #
RarelyEver
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OMG, LOL!

Posted 11 months ago #
metrognome
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my favorite headline, courtesy of Politico:

"Boehner Silent On Weiner Scandal"

maybe we should have a contest ...

"Weiner Frankly Admits to Relishing Sexting, Which is Why He Is In This Pickle."

Hopefully, our own (sorta) Norm Dicks isn't into tweeting ... speaking of 12-year-old-humor ...

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
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ROFLOL

had no idea there were so many comedians in the crowd

Posted 11 months ago #
kootchman
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I remember a crawl back to ship after one of those special nights sailors and Marines enjoy after months at sea. Something about a brawl outside a whorehouse in Siracusi, Italy... The next morning, all the married parties were invited to see the "old man". The essence of the dressing down was this.... "you men took solemn oaths of fidelity and trust, and swore to uphold that trust with your sacred honor... Whatever "god" you made that oath to, was the same one to which you made your marital vows" Your fitness reports will reflect my confidence in your honor and the depths of my trust." ... That my fellow WS residents is called honor... too bad so many can't see the relevance.... Semper fidelis

Posted 10 months ago #
elikapeka
Member Profile

I can remember one woman politician who had a sex scandal - US Rep Helen Chenoweth from Idaho. Other than that, can't think of one.

I think these scandals at this level happen more often with men because as a general rule, women are attracted to powerful men. Men are not attracted to powerful women.

Posted 10 months ago #
Irukandji
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And women-wise, I've certainly read my share of articles about female teachers, married or otherwise, who've munched their share of Little Smokies.

Posted 10 months ago #