Zenguy
Member Profile
The story of the WalMart employee being trampled to death and shoppers complaining when the store wanted to close baffles me.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27955316/
A flower shop left some bouquets they did not sell today at the bus stop, I then bought some people in line coffee on my way home. Hopefully those people will do something nice for someone else.
How do we focus back on what the really important things in life are?
miws
Member Profile
I've been stewing about this all day, Zenguy.
I first heard about it on the early morning TV news.
There aren't many more things that anger me more than when a person is hurt or killed, due to someone else's carelessnes, or especially aggression, while simply doing their job. And yes, I consider stampeding hordes of shoppers doing something this insane being aggression.
Whether it be an injury, or worse, caused by a robber, someone speeding through a construction zone and injuring flaggers or other workers, or a situation like what happened at Walmart, it's totally inexcusable.
I actually posted the info of this situation on another website earlier today, and as I mentioned there, I hope thse shoppers were able to be detained, or can be identified somehow, and face serious charges such as manslaughter. I would like to see much harsher penalties, but that would be a stretch.
Although I hold the people involved totally responsible for their actions, I would like to see Walmart held responsible to a certain degree, as they essentially promote this type of behaivor by having such sales, and opening insanely early in the day. And I would feel the same way if it happened anywhere else, so this isn't just an anti-Walmart thing.
Good on ya, Zenguy, for paying it forward, by buying that coffee for others!
Mike
That mall where the WalMart employee was killed is right near my sister's house in NY - we were talking about it this morning. I can't imagine any sale being worth this kind of insanity, even if the tragedy hadn't happened. And I bet when the store was closed shortly thereafter, the people were more upset about not getting their sales than the fact that someone was dead.
What really gets me about the commercialism, especially this year, is that everyone is talking about how bad things are financially, and yet there still seems to be the mentality that we "have to" spend the money on Christmas. If food banks are running out of food due to demand, then people can't afford Christmas. Or at least the commercially-driven Christmas we've become accustomed to. It's really obscene. I've got friends who've been laid off, barely able to afford food, but they're still buying presents.
i too would like to see people prosecuted for this. there should be surveillance photos from the store camera..
i think the kinds of sales that promote a special price for the first shopper really generate this kind of irrational behavior..
I hope he has family members who sue the pants off Walmart.
As for what we can do to make the season real.. i think it's time to concentrate once again on people and not things.
I too am doing my best to pay it forward in this holiday season.
I was horrified when I heard of this tragedy this morning. My first reaction was...this is the very reason I don't go to such sales. This was followed by thoughts of what should be done in the future. I can't imagine that a tv or a video game or some other material item is worth such 'profits' to these stores that they continue to place people at risk. While everyone should behave in some orderly manner at such sales we know based on past experience that it just doesn't happen. That being said the store in question should be wholely responsible for this tragedy. They created the frenzy with their sale teasers and then most likely did not plan properly for the onslaught at every store either by enough staff or proper security outside to manage the crowd once the stores open.
There must be a better way for people to 'shop' than to have unmanaged chaos in these stores. I will continue to shop locally for all that I need for my holiday gift giving I hope that you all do to.
My thoughts and prayers go to the family of this man in New York.
Sue, regarding this:
>>Yet there still seems to be the mentality that we "have to" spend the money<<
That's almost a direct quote I heard this afternoon from someone being interviewed on NPR. She was talking about how difficult things were this year, but then went on to say, "but we HAVE to keep shopping or it will get worse..." Unbelievable. I guess I just must be unamerican, because I don't get it.
changingtimes
Member Profile
http://www.komonews.com/news/national/35228974.html
what about the shooting at toys r us!!! what is the world coming 2!!!!
Zenguy
Member Profile
It is heartening to see I have many allies. I think the human race can evolve above greed and bigotry but wow, it seems like we should be there already.
I guess I put too much faith in humankind. I keep thinking that we're better than this, that we, as a nation, care more than this...and then, once more I'm proved very wrong. My only blood relative here is my daughter. We agreed years ago that we wouldn't buy for each other. Oh, sometimes we pick up a little thing if something catches our eye, but the main thing at Christmas is for us to spend time together, to love each other, to realize how lucky we are to have each other (I know I'm lucky). I simplified my life after having a serious illness a few years back that almost killed me, and then having a fight with the big C 3 years ago. It changes your perspective as to what's truly important...at least it did for me.
Stores can deal with making less this holiday season..and if they can't, they shouldn't be in business.
Wal-Mart is crazy to let something like that happen, and should be held accountable. And they should be required to help the mom who miscarried in the ensuing melee. Having said that...where the hell is personal responsibility? Those shoppers need to be taken behind the woodshed and taught civility. One doesn't have to trample everything just to save a buck. It's simply NOT that important. I have never shopped at a mall or any other place the day after Thanksgiving, and I'm happier for it.
I feel this is 100% Walmart's liability. I've never shopped on the day after Thanksgiving either, but the event and the ensuing nickname of black Friday have been in effect forever. A culmination of marketing and greed perhaps, but some also do it just for fun. To be a part of the excitement of the season. Others find it the only day they can afford gifts because of the deals.
To assume these people callously stomped a man to death is a little presumptuous for me. If you've every been in a line for a concert or similar event, as the anticipation builds, you inadvertently press further and further into the person in front of you. Without adequate crowd control, this always results in a stampede of body pressure once the doors open. Those in front would have had absolutely no control over movement, and those pushing from behind would not have seen what occurred.
Walmart failed immensely in not preventing this completely unnecessary death.
flowerpetal
Member Profile
I'm not even going to do a news search to read this story. Its too sad of a commentary on what "we" value. Here's what happens when we have popular television shows called "Dirty Sexy Money"... at least I think that's what it is titled. When you place before people images of vast fictional wealth they want it too. And for sure they will trample over anyone to get what they think is rightfully theirs.
We've created monsters.
flowerpetal
Member Profile
Thanks for your comments JT.
I've had fun going downtown for twenty years to see the lighting of the Bon Star (it will always be the Bon Star to me). We sing along with thousands of others, we ooh and aah when the tree is lit, we laugh and chat with people around us; and then we all crane our necks upward to see that magnificent star lit up again!
I love that tradition.
One small update ... according to a NY story updated within the past couple hours, the pregnant woman did NOT miscarry.
That said, I wish the chains would re-think this nutty "tradition." Having covered the "start of shopping season" for more than two decades, I know this has not been going on all that long ... not that many years ago, it was only one or two quirky places (K Mart comes to mind) that opened mega-early (I know because we were always having to plan the morning-show live shots, and our choices were always K-Mart or maybe Fred Meyer). Suddenly, everyone's doing it.
We got up extra-early and went out this morning to see, mostly because I just couldn't believe that many people would be up that early ... well, they were. Maybe close to a thousand people between the Penney's (4 am) and Best Buy (5 am) lines we saw. However, we also watched when the doors opened for both, and everybody was fairly mellow, a few cheers. Tukwila Police, as we showed in a photo this morning, were out at the Best Buy, just in case.
*added later - I uploaded the video we shot driving by the JC Penney's line (I drove, Junior Member held the camera) since YouTube seems to be uploading a lot faster these days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPGxSetoX74
watch closely and you'll see these bozos run out of nowhere to cut in line just as the doors open (about :25 into the clip)
I don't see how some of these Black Friday deals aren't already considered a bait and switch. This should already be illegal, to offer a deal that's so outrageous that only if you show up before 5 AM do you get the deal, and then only if you survive the stampede. They should be made to give rainchecks for any deal they offer that they can't fulfill within a certain time. Wal Mart and their ilk are intentionally trying to create a pandemonium, and yet they are surprised when someone dies every once in a while.
We've noticed that many of those Black Friday deals are available online. You can order what you need and avoid that ridiculous (and dangerous) pre-dawn scene. And you don't get caught up in that buying frenzy and purchase things you don't need.
I always shop on Black Friday, to be a part of the crazyness and to save an amazing amount of money.
I agree with the laments about American materialism, but I find it kind of annoying that the only time of year we seem to talk about materialism (speaking generally, not singling anybody out) is at Christmas--which is to me the one time of year it's OK to be a little materialistic.
Christmases are my best childhood memories, partly because we were spoiled with big piles of presents on Christmas. We were taught to be thoughtful and frugal with money, too, but Christmas was special. It still feels special to me even as an adult.
I rarely buy myself stuff and I don't even own a car. I don't care much about the latest electronics, $500 handbags, owning 50 pair of shoes, etc. We can choose not to embrace that kind of materialism, for sure.
But what bothers me more are the things done in the name of corporate greed, to feed the materialism of people in power: jobs sent overseas, layoffs, wage and benefit cuts, union busting, faulty consumer products, mealamine in baby formula, etc. Those forms of materialism are far worse, IMO.
Zenguy
Member Profile
Speaking for myself, I do not think this is about buying things when you need them. I think my shock is more about people shoving, pushing and generally acting badly to others in a season that is supposed to be about love, and caring.
In my family, we buy things for each other when we need them and do not let Christmas dictate that we need to buy something now, now, now.
JenV
Member Profile
this is so disgusting. I hope they are able to identify the shoppers who were responsible.
I stopped participating in the gift aspect of Christmas last year (except for my niece) and have never been happier. It took all the stress out of the holiday instantly, and I was just able to enjoy time with my family and not have to worry about money. I requested that my family also not buy me gifts. It's great.
we're in Portland right now, and we were walking around downtown amidst the shoppers yesterday. It wasn't crazy busy by any means. There were a lot of little hippie protesters, though, telling people "Happy Buy Nothing Day!"
I'm with you, Zenguy. It's beyond tragic that people would trample someone for a wide-screen TV.
But people here are paying $10 a pound for what is essentially decaying pig fat because they're told it's 'artisan' (and I'm sure it tastes great; I just don't eat pigs). We're all part of the problem of materialism; we all have our own versions of it, me included (don't ask me what % I spend of my take-home pay on my hair.)
99.9% of us don't push and shove people to get what we want. But we can all probably look at our consumption and make some changes.
Kayleigh2..
there is a difference between paying top dollar for food that has been responsibly raised and processed and rampant consumerism...
Michael Pollan.. who wrote in defense of food points out that paying the added value for locally grown and processed food is actually less expensive than that which has been mega farmed and transported great distances.. cheap food is incredibly expensive to our planet and our economy.
Besides.. if you were a bacon eater.. i'd invite you over for a salad with just a little of that bacon in it.. and i guarantee you would swoon.
Yes, it is expensive on a per pound basis.. but not so much on a per meal basis because of the huge amount of flavor in every bite:)
That aside.. there are many ways to handle those sales so that people don't get hurt. passing out vouchers to everyone in line that must be presented to get the sale items would work just fine.. and i think best buy did that at one of their stores.. but at the door.. not in line.
Those lines are a tremendous marketing opportunity for stores.. imagine an hourly drawing for those in line..
as for me.. i will save my body and shop black friday online.. when i shop it at all.
i think there are still going to be some pretty spectacular deals available this holiday season... and as a prudent buyer.. i will take advantage of those that interest me...
Trick
Member Profile
I find purchasing gift certificates from Kiva.org much more rewarding.
It continues all year and has quite the impact much longer after holidays.
Just my 2 cents worth.
B-squared
Member Profile
Perhaps a lawsuit is in order for the cases where shopping-induced lunacy is a major factor in someone's death. Maybe it would send a message to other chains.
I gave up on the whole XMAS gift-giving years ago. It had become meaningless and far too stressful. Now, i adopt a family from the YWCA (www.ywcaworks.org) and provide gifts for folks who have next to nothing. This year i have a single mom and two toddlers. she is asking for diapers. and bed sheets for the kids. happy holidays indeed.
This year my family (6 adult 'children', 1 mom) is finally doing what we've talked about for a couple of years.
We draw names, then, in the past, we'd email our Xmas list to all and our "SECRET SANTA" had a max of $100 to spend.
This year, we're going to pick favorite charity/s that we want our SECRET SANTA to send the $100 to (either all to one charity or divided up).
.
A tradition we also have is what we call "THE Basket." This started many years ago when I threw some wrapped gag items into a laundry basket, and as each item was unwrapped, we could either keep it or the next person could take our treasured gift. I think some people call this a 'Pollyanna' gift exchange. Some extremely tacky things show up - all hilarious.
.
We have more fun doing this each year, than our actual Secret Santa gift exchange.
.
Jo
Jo..
we call it the white elephant gift exchange.. and it is great fun...
While I don't condone what happened at WalMart with the crowding, as a New Yorker I have to say that I saw this type of pile-up all the time. If a mall opened at 10am, you'd see people out front at 9:30 waiting to get in, and this is a regular weekend, not just Black Friday. Same thing happened at banks. The stores would often only open one door to let people in, and you'd have the same pushing and shoving to get in first. Magnify that by all the crowds for the Black Friday sales and it's obviously a disaster waiting to happen. I remember as a teen when I'd try to buy tickets at Ticketmaster at the Queens Center Mall (pre-internet-buying); we would make an insane dash through the mall to get on line first.
So, my point is, if this type of crowing and lineup is normal, then they need to have crowd control - I definitely think it's the stores' responsibility. But the fact that so much is spent on those days means that the practice isn't going to change anytime soon, I'm afraid. I remember when I moved to New Jersey and the malls in Paramus were governed by the Blue Laws - they closed on Sundays and on Black Friday they were not permitted to open until 7am, even if the entire chain opened at 4am elsewhere. A lot of merchants would have people show up at 4-5am, not realizing they weren't open yet, and they'd bribe them with donuts and coffee to not go to the Wayne malls in a neighboring county, which *were* open.
Zenguy
Member Profile
This is pretty cool and gives me more hope.
zenguy...
thank you for providing the link that said just what i wanted to say to my extended family this holiday season...
in the spirit of this conversation.. i want to alert people to the next WSB get-together... sponsored by celeste... held at "Big Al's" Brewery in White center on the 14th at 3 PM.
We are feeding one another by bringing potluck nibbles and desserts.. and if the dessert list so far is any indication... there will be plenty of holiday cheer.
We are also feeding the community through donations to our local food banks... and providing diapers for infants.. and gift cards for some one of our local agency's clients... and...
As we have proved before... when we come together and each give a little... the results far exceed anyone's expectations.
We can literally change lives.. just ask our local locksmith whose hope was restored... after being burned out... by his neighbors... and who in now once again in business.
My commitment is to pay it forward with a gift card every time i shop for the next couple of weeks. Gift cards don't have to be large to add up to a lot of shopping power...
if each of us just put a dollar aside every time we shopped.. imagine what we would have to donate to our local charities this season.
we can make a difference.. one act of compassion at a time.
You must log in to post.
All contents copyright 2012, A Drink of Water and a Story Interactive. Here's how to contact us.
No photo reuse without permission.
Entries and comments feeds. ^Top^
westseattleblog
West Seattle Blog
West Seattle Blog