OK, so someone had to start this topic, right? And it seems like Jiggers has been on the down-low lately, so I guess I was next in line.
So whatchall think anyway? How should we deal with so-called marijuana smoking lounges? Bust 'em? Leave 'em alone? Subsidize 'em?
Please have an opinion . . .
365Stairs
Member Profile
Non-smoker myself...never understood the attraction after the preverbial peer pressure try in highschool...remembering coughing so hard I threw up...vivid memory keeps me away + the fact I would lose my job and clearances if tested...so no thanks.
But I try not to judge too harshly...it seems to help those with medicinal needs...and chills out the rest who probably need it anyway.
If they structure the security and find some tax revenues...go for it.
Smoking lounges? There's only one in this area, correct?
That specific location is pushing it, in the current climate, if there's smoking allowed there. So they had to expect legal issues if they're going beyond dispensing it.
But dispensaries - I'm fine with.
As long as they keep it low key - leave them be. Tax them, etc. Not sure about subsidizing them - I don't think they need help financially.
The one on Roxbury and 35th hasn't caused any issues or trouble yet, despite the doom and gloom predictions for the neighborhood that some people made prior to its opening.
The no-smoking ordnance would prohibit second hand smoke i would think. Blow em' in the breeze. Why any tax revenue? First impulse? This is great, as soon as the people try and expand a freedom, you want the government to tax it? Let's see, let's have a "who can afford it" freedoms act. For 100 bucks a month, you get the "basic freedom" package. For $200, you get enhanced freedoms, and for 1000 per month, you get all the freedoms. Is there no end to the Seattle mentality of let's tax everything that walks, talks, breaths, occupies space, animate or inanimate. What won't we tax? Bet it's a short list. Government selling us our own freedoms? Inevitable. I like the current system, illegal as it is... there is no shortage of access, quality is up, choices are many.. and the mayor won't have to appoint a Pot Coordinator and staff of 20 to oversee the program. I am going to reverse my vote and re-criminalize it. Keeps the market free and innovative.
365Stairs
Member Profile
Kman...they tax cigarettes right? Why not this?
I am with 365 stairs
decriminalize
and tax
unless it's a medical expense.
think what we would save in prosecution and incarceration alone
waynster
Member Profile
It would work as long as we keep costco out of it lol..... I have to agree with Job and 365 on this issue sin tax it.... its no more a gateway drug to harder drugs then beer is to jack daniels. Save a millions on prosecutions and incarerations. We have laws in place that hold accountable those who misuse alcohol just need to rewite them to serve both........didn't we do this before made alot of gangsters rich during the 20's untill FDR said no more.... prohibition it was called and we know how well it worked.....
Please vote "No" on selling cannabis at mini-marts and food trucks — with an exemption for hash brownie bake sales.
I have never smoked it in my life, never done any drugs actually or smoked. I am very proud of that fact. That being said if they decriminilize it and tax it then I am ok with it.
To address the gateway to another drug arguement. I don't think its a gateway drug but I do think you would see cheaper prices and more product of alternate drugs which could arguably make them more attractive to people to use.
bostonman -- kinda like the liquor initiative that just passed ... making booze (which is a drug as is caffeine) cheaper. What's the diff? Seems as if alcohol is legal, despite the massive social and personal costs for dealing with its abuse, simply because it has become socially acceptable to drink. Not to mention 'legal' prescription drugs such as Rush's favorite, Oxycontin.
I am not sure if you are arguing against me or for me. From a pure economical standpoint it makes sense to legalize it and tax it. From a moral standpoint it should be illegal to me. I have seen the difference between people who used it and people who don't. I grew up with people who used it all the time, most of them are consistenly unemployed and have an overall poor quality of life. When I went home for my 20th high school reunion I couldn't believe it. It was clear who the stoners are and who isn't. No one knows the long term health effects of it either since its never been legal. At one time people though cigarettes were good for you too.
I wasn't clear what your position was. If alcohol is legal and taxed, marijuana should be legal and taxed. From a 'moral' standpoint, if marijuana is illegal, alcohol should be illegal. I've seen the difference between people who abuse alcohol and people who don't; many of them are unable to hold a job and abuse their spouse and children; they drive while intoxicated and kill people. They suck up a huge amount of medical care. I knew who the alcohol abusers were in my high school (hint: they called themselves the Colt 45 Club.) Everyone knows the long term effects of alcohol abuse. At one time, people thought alcohol was good for you.
Again, what's the diff?
I have also seen the effect of overuse of pot on college friends. And the effects of overuse of tobacco products. I'm guessing if lawmakers ever decide to tap into the revenue possibilities of pot, as they did with alcohol and tobacco, we'd solve a lot of our tax revenue problems. Heck, we could probably even fund light rail to West Seattle.
Ahh, just to be clear then I would be for legalizing it and taxing it. Would I protest in front of the DEA for them to legalize it? No. If it passed the Federal level and became legal would I protest it? No. Its clear at this point that we could make a lot of money and save a lot of money by making something legal.
I do worry on some level what the effect on society will be adding another item people can get easily and that is legal that we know causes such bad behaviors.
thanks for clarifying. I waffle between 'people should be able to make their own decisions about ...' and 'history clearly demonstrates that people are unable to make good decisions and someone else usually pays the price ...'. I guess that's the difference between a nanny state and a ninny state. And the reason we have a government and the reason we complain about the government.
I agree that weed should be legalized and taxed, but enforcement and regulation issues still concern me. First we need to have measures in place to a) measure intoxiction levels and b) restrict public use. Even now, pot smokers seem to think that any open-air environment is a venue for getting high. While I don't think that pot is a gateway drug, I also don't think we need more intoxicants available 24/7. Marijuana may be no more harmful than alcohol, but NEITHER is a good thing. I can't think of a single way in which intoxication - at any level - benefits society.
Lounges: ridiculous, IMO. For one thing, there's the non-smoking ordinance. For another, a "lounge" meets neither the letter nor the spirit of the law for medical use, which, under current law, is the only use allowed.
We got taken on the "medical marijuana" initiative.
What I THOUGHT I was voting for was to help people in pain. But it turns out I was REALLY just voting to give marijuana legalization advocates a shot in the arm.
As soon as that initiative passed, we started seeing all kinds of pot ads in the Stranger that didn't have anything to do with medical treatment.
Next came a "smoking lounge" in White Center — just what that benighted community did NOT need. Last time I was in that area (before the Big Raid) there was a large crew of scuzzy-looking dudes milling around in the parking lot across the street from that place. Now I don't know whether those guys had any connection to the smoking lounge, but it was clear that the presence of the lounge had sent a message to them. And that message was: "Drug use is tolerated here." That's all the dealers needed to move right in.
***************************************************************************************
I know you'd be hard pressed to make a case that pot is somehow worse than alcohol overall. When it comes to the incremental intoxication of taking a drink vs. taking a drag, however, there IS a difference. An important one. See, you can drink casually all day long and not get hammered. People do it all the time, in fact: indoors and out, on airplanes, at restaurants, and shopping malls. By contrast, anyone stepping out of a "smoking lounge" after just a few puffs is almost guaranteed to be intoxicated. And that's why I'm against these lounges.
FWIW, I'm against people staggering out of bars in White Center, too, but you've got to choose your battles . . .
I say, if you wanna get screwed up on either drugs or booze then do it at home. Accordingly, I will vote AGAINST any marijuana legalization initiative unless it contains language banning pot smoking in public and also bans smoking in so-called "clubs."
Harumph!
I have a chronic disease/condition that requires me to take a fair number of medications. When I was doing a course of chemo last fall/winter, my physician gave mea "prescription" for MMJ. It's a medication. I don't need to go to a "lounge" to take my calcium acetate, or to take my lasix, or to take the other pills that I am required to take. When I infrequently availed myself of MMJ, I didn't feel the need to smoke/imbibe in a group setting. I have a life, I work, and I would take my "meds", which took all of a few minutes, and then get on with life. The excuse that people need to be around others that smoke, to be in a lounge, so it makes them seem more comfortable, more accepted? Perhaps an excuse to get high amongst friends. If all the chemo patients, little gray haired men and women, middle class moms and dads, etc, went to these places, I wonder if those who were frequenting the place in WC would have been a bit uncomfortable. I guess what I'm saying is...why is a lounge needed in the first place? It's an excuse. Dispensary? I have no problem with that. But medicate at home, and go about your life. Lol...maybe there needs to be lounges for people to take their cholesterol drugs, or their blood pressure drugs...makes as much sense...
Actually, Bostonman, "never been legal" isn't really accurate. Efforts to regulate in the States started fairly soon after people began to use it here, true, but it wasn't wholly prohibited until the 1930s and had been used since the mid-19th century. It was often prescribed as a painkiller and for other ailments.
And there are PLENTY of studies of its long-term health effects. Just pop on over to PubMed and have a look.
DBP, do you have evidence for your assertion re: incremental intoxication?
I don't smoke (or otherwise ingest) the stuff myself; tried it a few times, concluded it wasn't for me. But I do think it should be decriminalized. The same restrictions on smoking otherwise legal substances (i.e., tobacco) should apply.
Evidence of MJ toxicity: myself, of course.
I have some funny stories about that, actually. But then, I've got funny stories about everything.
Ok how about not for a long time. I looked at the site, searched around. I saw a lot of reports on side effects of long term use also. I have also seen first hand what it does to peoples overall motivation. There is a reason why people joke about getting high and eating doritos on the couch.
I had a lot of friends growing up who used this stuff regularly. Most of them can't hold a job to this day. They are a drain on society because they plan there lives around getting high. They get a job for 6 months and go on unemployment for 6 months. I have seen this first hand. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw these people 15 years later.
I can't be convinced that this is overall good for society other than economically.
Hey, I'm not arguing that the stuff doesn't have negative effects. It's one of the reasons I don't use it (plus, feeling like my brain is wrapped in cotton wool never did do much for me, personally).
But as long as we're swapping anecdotes, I can cite plenty of friends who did or do use pot and are employed, hardworking members of society. If you're going to use that argument, we ought to ban tobacco and especially booze, as well. (I know you aren't, but people do, and it bugs me since there are studies readily available that are more rigorous than "people I know who...", you know?)
I agree with you. I think those also overall aren't good for society other than economically. If the government banned tabacco and booze it would barely affect me other than an occasional beer during a football game. Maybe I am just boring but I never really had any bad vices like that in my life.
I will freely admit to being very, very fond of wine and whiskey. But I like to think I'm responsible about it (not drinking and driving, not incapacitating myself--though I could tell you some stories from when I was young and stupid--not making a habit of it, and so forth).
I used to smoke cigarettes, for that matter. But I quit and I don't miss it.
I believe the reasons for pot being illegal are purely political as it's been shown to be a fairly benign drug and should be legalized.
And even if you're against it, prohibitions never work, they just make money for gangsters and criminals. I'd love to see it legalized, taxed appropriated, and have a portion of that money used for drug rehabilitation. We have an archaic view of drug usage in this country and I'd love to see a more progressive view take hold so instead of punishing people with a problem, we treat them for the issue they have and keep them out of the criminal justice system, and most law makers would agree.
But it's all how you see the world.
waynster
Member Profile
I misplaced my key board no wait I found it now if only I could remember what was going to say opps got the munchies brb.........roflmao take another hit.....lol...I do believe by legalizing pot the counrty as a whole would be richer saving tax dollers for going after real criminals. Locking up pot users is costing the tax payer more then its worth. After all it took one hollywood movie reefer madness to make congress pass the laws they did. Now if they made one that showed just how corrupt law makers are you think naw......
365Stairs
Member Profile
Should they actually legalize it...I am going to build my empire mini-mart chain called "Munchies"...and create a magnet smart phone app for those to remember how to get there (it would beep progressively louder the closer you get) for those anytime cravins'...
It makes economic sense to tax it? HUH? Wadda bunch of sheep... tax this, tax that... no it does not make economic sense to create as many revenue streams from our pockets that government can imagine. It's time to reform municipal welfare. Taxes take spendable, discretionary income out peoples pockets. I will never, ever, pay pot taxes. Grow it like you own it. Support the underground economy, the last free market. Go off the economic grid! BTY... just got back from the hills of NC and TN.. and I am proud to report, good old moonshine is still being distilled,..198 proof bottles of true insurrection and lots of varieties and at $10 gallon. Corn in a jar.... it supports poor families in a way a state welfare bureaucracy cant' Thats why they try so hard to eradicate it! I love a culture that fights back. Baaaa baaaa baaa ... tax me, guide me, lead me, corral me, make me a herd animal...pitiful
Hmm, last time I was in Appalachia they were making meth...
Yea... but you have to go to the hills for good "shine"... meth is cooked anywhere as far as I can tell.. Puyallup for starters. There is just sumpin about a hardwood fired mash, up in the hills, that makes it special..and generations of handcrafted pride.
here's an idea...let's tax...nothing..not income, not things we purchase, not houses, not cars, not food, not...anything...we'd make at least one person on here happy :)
now you are talking... better than taxing EVERYTHING!!! ... notice that anyone who owns anything sees only increasing tax burdens? Own a car..? tax it more...property, boat, income, more taxes. Now I know we'd make MOST people here happy..if we had more taxes..that is unless they have to participate too.. then it's "regressive"... and we can't have that can we? Nooo. Taxes for the empire and emperors have killed off more than one civilization. As soon as a right is expanded what it the imediate impulse to "tax it"? Some autotom implant device?
kootchman, have you or yours ever used any of the following:
♠ Public libraries
♠ Postal service
♠ Public streets
♠ Public utilities
♠ The airport
♠ Public schools
♠ Public parks
??
Or have you or any of your loved ones ever had need of:
♦ The police
♦ The fire department
♦ Search and rescue
♦ National Guard
??
Just wondering.
DBP..let's not get practical here...are you saying those things need to be paid for? That they are not self supporting with money that is manufactured out of the...air? Kootch shouldn't have to pay for those. He should be able to keep his money...all of it...and use it to get nice things.
Psst! Jan!
kootch talks a mean game, but he's really just a big softie, like all the other conservatives here.
I understand how they feel.
Outnumbered.
[Keep that on the down-low.]
Hey..I was just defending him..he wants more money, so let's let him have it. This country has been taking it out of his pocket for way too long. Time to be nice to Kootch :)
Sure.. and we have paid a jail worker to sit on her ass, at home, at full pay for three years, and 2 milion in settlements for a cop who beat the hell out of a civilian, a cop with over 15 brutality cases, and 7 million to a foster car kid whose social worker hadn't made a single home visit in over a year, ... so while you tout all these wonderful things... you hide and cover the gross mismanagement of government at every level. How about the twice convicted drunk driving Seattle police captain? Suspended on full pay for three months.. The 110 K metro driver? The thousands of welfare e-withdrawals from casino ATM's? And I will take a swipe at the scam of the welfare fraud, the medicaid and medicaire fraud... I pay for all those things too. Our private plane fleet for the governor ... fly commercial baby... trim the mental health budget but keep the 7 million dollar annual planes and support crews. All these prisonors and we pay DoT workers upwards of 100K in pay and benefits.. chain gang prisoners and get to work paying off the societal debt. Trim the bloat, the waste, the fraud.. and useless programs. Any program, any service, for any vote delivering constituents... that's our state motto.
And while we are outnumbered here... it is the nature of cities to attract such, I have every confidence out "there" we are a majority and growing. Your borders are getting smaller and smaller ... See the congress? That is our direction. Do the math.
lolol.. you do realize that congress has a lower approval rating than Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez. I wouldn't be claiming any congress victory here.
So..while we're at it, and not making you pay for anything anymore, maybe we should just suspend the police force, all social workers, and those dastardly overpaid bus drivers, too. Look at all the money saved, so you can have more. :)
waynster
Member Profile
Hate to tell you this kootch just as much meth is made in west seattle as there is in puyallup. Its just for some reason the right wing nut cases live in east pierce county made it a house hold name just like they did with the wife beater shirts on the tv show cops....and they vote conservative they think Bush was a best thing for this country figure that one out.....as far as shine was once told they measure corn by the gallon not the bushel in skagit co.
Sure Waynster, sure. I just bet they are active, voting, sorta folks. I get it .. the reverse "welfare queen" thing. But still no answer.. why the reflexive knee-jerk reaction to taxing yet another thing?
waynster
Member Profile
Must live in a bubble kootch you would be suprised on what goes on in east pierce co they are a strange lot take a drive around out there sometime you might think your down south. Why tax it why not who pays for the state and local goverments to cover the enforcment part just like alcohol and tobacco. As of now its not and its cost to keep it illegal and enforce it comes from somewhere don't it... now how would you do it if not tax it.....
Why enforce it? It's a plant. Why does it need "enforcement"? We already spend billions on enforcement... to no avail I might add.. Do you note a drop in availability? Having any trouble scoring? Nooo. I wouldn't enforce anything..just take it off the scheduled drug list. Now THAT would save billions. Of course, I feel very comfortable not having to consult the federal, state, and local criminal statues every morning before I venture out into the bad bad world... others love the all embracing comfort of laws or derive their living from creating them. Some people really are afraid of being free from unwarranted intrusions into their lives. The pot "industry" lives on. The beneficiaries are criminals, the prison complex, drug agencies, and local, state revenues. I bet TSA just makes ya giddy...and you have a bound , autographed copy of the Patriot Act.
"St. Paul, Minn. It was announced today that biology students attending the Minnesota Institute of Nontraditional Studies (MINS) have succeeded in splicing the THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) producing gene of the cannabis plant into the DNA of the common dandelion (Taraxacum officinale). Effective amounts of THC are present in the flowers, leaves, and root of the new plant with potency surpassing that of the legendary 'Acapulco Gold' strain of cannabis.
Where there is demand... there will be supply. My kudos to the federal government if they can stop dandelions from growing!!!
hmmm...wonder if the dandelion wine would be any more..umm..potent :D
One of the problems with marijuana is that you can use it without even realizing what you're doing.
Cuz dat jus wot de dope'll do ta ya, see?
It screw all aroun' wif yo' hey-uhd.
http://www.dump.com/2011/08/29/marijuana-interrogation-video/
I am not permitted to ingest anything into my lungs..in other words, I am not allowed to smoke, even if I have a "prescription" for MMJ. But when I was on chemo last fall, I discovered high quality edibles. In other words, edibles that I, myself, did not make - lol. There is some excellent quality stuff out there.And if you ate the whole cookie, or brownie, or whatever, it surely snuck up on you...lesson learned.
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