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(41 posts)

Kids, Hills, Snow and cars

Started 3 years ago by PeggySue
Latest reply from beachdrivegirl

PeggySue
Member Profile

For those of people who insist upon driving up and down our West Seattle hills: PLEASE PLEASE exercise extreme caution when navigating side streets.
Neighborhood kids, dogs, and adults have been out on our street (SW Juneau St between 35th & Fauntleroy) for the past two days - sledding, sliding, and playing.
My advice is to not even attempt trying to go up or down SW Juneau Street - its a much steeper incline than you think... and it does become extremely ICY in unexpected places.
Thanks.

Posted 3 years ago #
charlabob
Member Profile

I'm sorry -- you're saying cars should stay off the street because kids want to sled on it??? I would think perhaps parents would find safer places for their kids to play. Do you have your kids' sleds tied to the back of 4WD vehicles? Do your teens grab onto cars that drive down your street for the thrill of "skiing"? Are you all just crazy?

Sorry, but this is one of the most annoying things I've encountered since I've lived in Seattle -- I agree that staying off icy streets is the most judicious, for all, but having pedestrians take them over as playgrounds seems a rather dangerous way to enforce that theory.

Posted 3 years ago #
JenV
Member Profile

indeed. If you're going to take the kids sledding, take them to a park, or do it on a road you know is closed. Kids are no match for a sliding car, and last time I checked- the roads are for vehicles, not sledding.

Posted 3 years ago #
ellenater
Member Profile

agreed!

Posted 3 years ago #
beachdrivegirl
Member Profile

Ditto to charlabob.

PeggySue if you had posted this in April I would assume this was a fools day joke. I pray that if you use that type of judgement that you are not a parent. It is absolutely asine to expect cars to stay off the streets b/c you would like the opportunity to play in them.

For those that understand safety here are a few parks in West Seattle that are a bit better suited for playing than in the street.

A. Alki Beach Park - http://www.seattle.gov - (206) 684-4075 - 13 reviews

B. City of Seattle Parks & Recreation Department: Environmental-Education - http://www.ci.seattle.wa.us - (206) 684-7434 - 2 reviews

C. Lincoln Park - http://www.seattle.gov - (206) 684-4075 - 9 reviews

D. City of Seattle Parks & Recreation Department: High Point - http://www.seattle.gov - (206) 684-7422 - More

E. Skyline Secure Park - http://www.skylinesecurepark.com - (206) 769-6966 - More

F. Fauntleroy Park - http://www.seattle.gov - (206) 684-4075 - More

G. White Center Park - king.wsu.edu - (206) 296-4542 - More

H. County of King King County Parks and Recreation: Lakewood Park SW - maps.google.com - (206) 205-5275 - More

I. Lowman Beach Park - maps.google.com - (206) 684-4075 - 2 reviews

J. Luna Park Hoa

Posted 3 years ago #
Irukandji
Member Profile

And as a reminder, kids are no match for parked cars, either. Norm Maleng's child was killed when sledding by running into a car parked on the roadside.

Be safe, have fun, and be safe.

Posted 3 years ago #
hammerhead
Member Profile

Yes had a kid damn near run into me on capital hill. asked the dad if was worth it he said yes.

so please find a safer place to sled ect. because even if i do stop i will STILL SLIDE.

Posted 3 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

Peggy Sue - your post is absolutely ridiculous.

Posted 3 years ago #
JimmyG
Member Profile

Small note of correction to #6 above.
It was Maleng's daughter that was killed while sledding on the streets of Seattle, not his son.

And many more are injured everytime we have a snowstorm and people think the city streets become their personal sledding routes.

Posted 3 years ago #
JanS
Member Profile

I say...go to the West SEattle Golf Course. There's a designated sledding area there, and I remember when my child was younger that she would go there with friends and loved it...and nary a car in sight.

Yes, be safe out there....

Posted 3 years ago #
mayjune
Member Profile

Just FYI, people have also been sledding down Raymond between 35th & Fauntleroy (mostly 36th-37th). I think it's dangerous for both cars AND sledders.

Posted 3 years ago #
GenHillOne
Member Profile

I'm so glad to see that folks are reinforcing the idea that streets are NO place to play. There are cars driving on that street, driving on the cross streets, parked cars, poles, and fire hydrants (let alone other humans to crash into). I been bi***ing about this for the past few days, but I guarantee if you've ever gotten to know a child with a brain injury, you know that it changes you. And yes, I'm the cranky neighbor that told your kids to get out of the road.

Posted 3 years ago #
beachdrivegirl
Member Profile

I forgot to ask in my last post, but PeggySue woudl you mind calling my boss and asking him why he insists i drive in to work, since it does get in the of your time to play in the street??

Posted 3 years ago #
charlabob
Member Profile

Very good, BDG -- I suspect a lot of people would like to have that call made. BTW, think we saw you on the teevee last night. Did we?

Posted 3 years ago #
GenHillOne
Member Profile

What I wanted to add before my computer froze (does everything have to freeze around here?? argh), is that I think PeggySue's intentions were good - no one wants to see anyone hurt. Let's just take it one step further. Kids don't think about this stuff and it happens so rarely here, it seems adults with them don't either sometimes. *off soapbox*

And hammerhead, sorry that guy was a jerk.

Posted 3 years ago #
PeggySue
Member Profile

1. I do not appreciate the venomous nature nor the name calling responses to my initial post.
2. No where in my post did I say I condone those who choose to go sledding etc on our street. It is their choice.
3. Drivers choose to speed up and down this street and there have been countless near accidents - regardless of the weather or road conditions.
4. Where exactly did I say in my post that I didn't want cars being driven on the street because people were sledding, etc. on it?
5. FACT: The street is situated on a hill.
6. FACT: There IS a slab of ICE under the packed snow on the entire street (including near the curbs, and around the roundabouts).
7. FACT: The hill has a steep grade.
8. FACT: There are no parked cars on this particular street. Which may be why people have chosen to sled here?
9.FACT: We have heard a myriad of spinning tires, and have seen cars, trucks, and SUVs sliding around on the street since the snow fall last weekend.
10. LOGIC: this street is NOT entirely SAFE to drive DUE TO ROAD CONDITIONS and the steepness of the grade.
11. So, is it "ridiculous" that I only wanted to warn people that if they choose to drive, on any street - that they should exercise caution? Perhaps just slowing down and paying a little more attention? Taking in consideration the freezing temperatures, the condition of the (side) streets, and the possible unexpected appearance of youngsters sledding? It doesn't matter that you have a clunker, a hybrid, a SUV, a 4-wheel drive, a sleigh, or a tank. Things happen, and they can happen very very quickly.

Posted 3 years ago #
PeggySue
Member Profile

I have never taken part in any sledding any where.

The insinuations, and snide remarks are completely uncalled for.

I wonder if all those negative responses represent the true nature of those now living in West Seattle?

Posted 3 years ago #
Jeannie
Member Profile

Though I agree that kids should not sled on streets, was it really necessary to gang up on PeggySue? Some of us have cabin fever, but no need to get bee-yotchy.

Posted 3 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

I've been on these roads consistently over the past few days - probably more than most in W. Seattle. I don't need a lecture or reminder from Peggy Sue about her road or hill - those of us with common sense know how to handle things.

All I want is for her to keep the kids out of the street and not tell the rest of us to watch out for them - we have the right of way and in light of the various newscasts the last 48 hours showing sledding injuries and discussing dangerous sled practices, I think her post was unnecessary and opposite of what's being preached by experts and others.

Posted 3 years ago #
Jeannie
Member Profile

OK, everyone, let's remember the spirit of the season (except when we're making fun of Meth-gate). Be nice, y'all!

Posted 3 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kids sledding on streets with cars.. parked or otherwise.. creates a really dangerous situation.

did no-one see the bus story today? imagine that sliding through a throng of sledders.

No matter how much fun it might be, it just isn't safe to sled anywhere that it is possible a car might be parked or might drive through.

If you must succumb to the temptation.. all cars should be removed from the street and parents should be at both ends of the hill turning away drivers...

if i had children and lived on one of those steep grades with a sheet of ice underneath.. my kids would be in the back yard.. with a house between them and the idiots on the road.

Peggy Sue.. i am sorry you feel you got trashed.. but the message that kids and cars don't mix is not enough.

kid's just plain shouldn't be anywhere that they might encounter cars in this kind of weather. Under the best of circumstances with sober careful drivers at the wheel.. everyone slides... and sliding cars hit unintended targets.

parents.. it's your job to make sure that unintended target isn't your child... it's too large a risk to take with their future.

Posted 3 years ago #
cakeitseasy
Member Profile

I think everyone "ganged up" on PeggySue's post because it hit an obvious nerve. I think many of us have been fuming about the way people have been playing at winter sport on trecherous city streets and since she brought it up in a way that reflects the attitude many of us are annoyed with, she got the brunt of the collective frustration.

If the street is offcially closed, well, then I could understand (and I've seen a number of jerks ignoring those signs and driving on the closed streets...a very dangerous situation) otherwise, the street is definitely NOT a playground. Honestly, how can anyone expect the cars to "be careful" when they are having a hard time maintaining control on icy roads? I'm sure *most* of the people driving around are only doing so out of sheer necessity. Don't make it more difficult and more nervewracking by asking them to dodge people when they very well can't. On the other hand, if the street is officially closed...for godssakes don't drive on it. If it's not closed, stay off, and keep your kids off it!

Posted 3 years ago #
hopey
Member Profile

PeggySue, your post said the following:
1) please be cautious!
2) there are kids & adults "sledding, sliding and playing" on this one particular street
3) so don't even try driving up that street

The reason folks are interpreting your post as being mainly about the people sledding is probably because you made "caution about people sledding" more important than "caution about steep incline and ice". It's also emphasized in the first word of the title you chose for the thread.

You also used the phrase "people who insist upon driving". That is a very judgmental phrase, suggesting there is no good reason for anyone to be driving up and down hills in this weather. Unfortunately, people have numerous, legitimate reasons for driving in this weather, and living in West Seattle means driving on streets which go up and down hills.

I understand that sledding on streets is a hot button for many (most?) of us right now -- today I saw a family, 4+ kids and 1 adult. in a plastic toboggan heading down a steep street with blind turns, and actually considered calling the police for reckless endangerment of children -- but at the same time, your post put undue emphasis on the kids sledding.

Posted 3 years ago #
saney
Member Profile

of course, it doesnt help the condition of the street to have sleds packing it down into a smooth, icy sheet.

Posted 3 years ago #
Cait
Member Profile

PeggySue, I get where you're coming from. Crabbing on a blog is not going to keep kids out of the street for good or ill. We all know that whether or not they SHOULD, kids are going to be out sledding. So please please please be careful. "Well you shouldn't have been out sledding in the street!" is not going to make you feel less guilty if you kill someone anyway.

Posted 3 years ago #
cakeitseasy
Member Profile

Seattle Municipal Code section 11.40.250:

"No person upon roller skates, or riding in or by means of any coaster, skateboard, toy vehicle or similar device, shall go upon the roadway of any arterial street or transit coach route, except while crossing such street at a crosswalk; or engage in any sport, amusement or exercise or play in the roadway of any street."

Actually, it's illegal to play in the street.

Posted 3 years ago #
Cait
Member Profile

Well... and contrary to common sense. Print that, laminate it and slap one on every SNOW CLOSURE sign you can find. And telephone poles. ...That may be against an ordinance too though. DOH!

Posted 3 years ago #
MargL
Member Profile

Actually the PI just posted an article about the whole sledding in the street issue - http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/393027_sled20.html
and I saw a story on TV about another kid being pulled on a sled/tube behind a car getting injured sliding into a parked car on the side of the road. Common sense or 20/20 hindsight?

Posted 3 years ago #
Cait
Member Profile

I remember being REALLY young and, even then, thinking "What dummy pulls someone behind a car?"

Posted 3 years ago #
Cait
Member Profile

Vincent... I don't get whose side you're on here but "that's for playing".

Posted 3 years ago #
roundthesound
Member Profile

There is more snow coming, kids are on vacation, they will be out sledding in the streets regardless if it's against the city's municipal code.

Be careful!

kids+hills+snow=fun
kids+hills+snow+cars=ER

Posted 3 years ago #
Kayleigh2
Member Profile

Er, now it's Peggy's responsibility to make sure nobody in West Seattle sleds on a street? Get busy, Peggy! ;-)

Like I said, we used to slide on the streets in West Seattle snow when we were kids. We didn't get towed behind a car (that's just insane). We used a spotter at the bottom of the hill and were very careful. It was amazing fun.

I get that it wasn't very safe and that WSEA is busier now. But I think some of ya's were blaming your frustration and worry on Peggy.

Posted 3 years ago #
Caduceus
Member Profile

This whole thread is ridiculous.

PeggySue has every right to ask drivers to be more cautious.

People here in Seattle can hardly drive in the rain, let alone in the snow and standing at any intersection on let's say...35th will show you that they also have avoided learning how to drive in the snow.

Kids are going to go play inthe snow regardless of whether or not you feel you need to be going down hills that are sled-able.

Generally (key word, right there) kids will find the steeper, icier hills. Because you go faster and they are more fun. Now what was the kind of hill you're suppose to avoid driving on?

Oh, right.

The people on this forum need to seriously grow up, and start thinking straight.

Kudos to you PeggySue for reminding people they need to drive extra careful since kids will be out playing in the snow.

Posted 3 years ago #
HMC Rich
Member Profile

Wow! Some of you really display tolerance. Amazing. Your points were valid but your choice of words and descriptions at times were so condescending.

You did gang up on Peggy Sue. Should the kids be sledding on the street? Of course not. But they are going to find fun where they can.

Go back into the way back machine and try to remember when you were a child. A hill with snow wherever it was was fair game.

As a parent, I will not let my kid play in the street. Other parents may feel differently.

We all want the kids to be safe.

Posted 3 years ago #
beachdrivegirl
Member Profile

I am sorry but I feel that I have no reason to apologize.

A statement that is made telling people who INSIST about driving (which is legal mind you) to be more careful of those that choose to break the law. That deserves ridicule.

And generally speaking Caduceus in other cities, I know you are still a bit young to have experienced this, parents dont allow their children to play in the street snow or no snow. In fact, parents keep their children farther from the street in conditions like these b/c they understand it is icy and that life doesnt end b/c of ice. They bring their children to parks and let their children slide down the big hill in the park. In Denver, Chicago, and back east people dont play in the streets they go to the park to sled. simple fact.

I cant believe that people actually believe that people think it is alright to risk not only their own lives while breaking the law but INNOCENT DRIVERS as well.

And Caduceus unless you have lied to us about your age you arent exactly a mature adult so I would be careful about who you told to grow up. Maybe this is just another example where we should practice the saying of "practice what you preach."

Charlabob, I dont think i was on the news. What was it for?

Posted 3 years ago #
JenV
Member Profile

I almost DID die sledding when I was a kid. We lived on Vashon, and would sled down the hill to the ferry dock parking lot. It was a steep hill, and always closed when it snowed. It goes first into the upper lot, then into the lower lot. Ultimately, you were supposed to turn into the upper lot - it was flat. The lower lot is a continuation of the hill. This was the big snowstorm of '85 or '86 I think - I know it was Thanksgiving weekend. I am on my metal rail sled, that I think must have belonged to our parents - it was old. I am headfirst- and probably going about 50 down the hill. Everyone is telling me to turn or jump off before I hit the parking lot. I can't - going too fast, I am scared and the sled wont turn. I end up in the lower parking lot- I see a huge bumper ahead of me- put out my hand and hit full force with my neck. Try to stand up and immediately fall down. can't speak or move. the neighborhood kids run and get someone's dad, who carries me all the way home- I was 11 or so, so not a little tyke. Later that night I went into shock - shaking, crying - realized I could have died - and it's a wonder I didn't. Ended up with a badly sprained wrist. So when I see kids trying to sled around any cars, it freaks me out.

Posted 3 years ago #
Caduceus
Member Profile

Beach I've lived in 5 different cities. Including Niagara Falls and Buffalo for almost 3 years combined.

People sled all over the streets, here, east coast and the mid-west.

No one asked you to apologize, unless I missed it.

And you're STILL missing the point, and being childish.

The point to the creation of this thread is as follows, I'll even put it in a simple list.

Children are sledding.

A lot of drivers are being just as careless as ever.

Peggy would like to remind us to drive carefully, not only for our own safety but for the safety of the kids who would like to enjoy sledding.

And legality is a laughable point, sledding will be enforced the same way "curfew" is enforced. Of the utmost rarity if at all.

So you are essentially saying that Peggy is wrong? And that everyone should drive normally because the kids shouldn't be in the street in the first place? I don't understand, I mean she is either right or she is wrong, we should either drive extra carefully or not.

Posted 3 years ago #
beachdrivegirl
Member Profile

Her post as well as yours was condescending imo. A simple drive carefully its icy would have done. I believe YOU are missing the point. Funny that I havent witnessed these careless drivers. I actually have seen more caution than I typically do but that just me and I have been out and about a lot.

Posted 3 years ago #
Caduceus
Member Profile

I missed the point?

"For those of people who insist upon driving up and down our West Seattle hills: PLEASE PLEASE exercise extreme caution when navigating side streets."

Hmm.

Well my dear, I was almost hit four times by people who thought it was a fabulous idea to slam on their break going down a hill when the began to slightly fishtail.

I was also almost in the middle of a 3 car fender-bender, while walking on the side walk.

It's no secret that people on this forum tend to get overly aggressive almost on purpose (especially about politics) but you don't need to try extra hard, in almost every thread I've ever posted in. You've been mist-interpreting posts since I made the WASL topic.

Posted 3 years ago #
beachdrivegirl
Member Profile

Well actually the point (i believe the majority )of posters on here is trying to make is that people are going to drive. Most are driving carefully. And it is rude to expect them not to drive on certain hills (which is requested by PeggySue) because it might get in the way of an activity (sledding) which is done while breaking the law.

And hate to break it to you honey but this is me. Take it or leave it no personal attack towards you I am just passionate about my beliefs. And laws typically back my beliefs.

Posted 3 years ago #
beachdrivegirl
Member Profile

Well maybe the post would have better suited with a title such as ICY drive carefully?

And then in the post remind parents, children, and teens that b/c of the ice it is even more important to follow the laws and not play in the streets. IMO, the post ridiculed drivers and defended those that were playing in the street.

Posted 3 years ago #