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June 22, 2014 at 1:25 am #611755
pupsarebestParticipantHey, Mayor Ed—you can hide your head in the sand only so long.
Eventually push will come to shove, and whether you actually exhibit any leadership as we endure this incredible (and totally predicted) fiasco, you WILL have to answer questions.
Good luck next time you run for Mayor of Seattle, you’re gonna need it.
June 22, 2014 at 1:31 am #810091
JoBParticipant“Four years ago, politicians told us that building a $4.2 billion underground freeway would be no problem. Even though this freeway would require digging the widest deep-bore tunnel in the world (58 feet), elected leaders said not to worry about it. Even though 90 percent of transportation megaprojects run over budget—tunnels by an average of 34 percent, according to research from Oxford University—the politicians involved insisted this project would never run over budget. This project would not be delayed. This project was the exception.”
“Nobody is more responsible for the deep-bore tunnel than Ed Murray. As a state senator, he was the primary sponsor of a 2009 law to build the tunnel.”
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/who-to-blame-for-bertha/Content?oid=19894105
June 22, 2014 at 4:23 am #810092
metrognomeParticipantso, we should never try any complex or difficult public projects because *something* MIGHT go wrong? Any attempt to place blame at this point is pure speculation; until the problem with Bertha is identified and repaired, the tunnel completed, the viaduct torn down and the lawsuits settled and costs sorted out, we won’t know who or what was responsible. Even then, the actual cause may never be determined; all that may happen is legal apportionment of responsibility to determine who pays what.
So, without complex, risky public projects, we wouldn’t have:
– I-5;
– neither the high nor low West Seattle Bridge (the low bridge, despite being slow as a Seattle slug, is an engineering marvel);
– the downtown transit tunnel, which was dug pretty much without a technical hitch;
– the LINK light rail system, which includes numerous tunneled sections dug pretty much without technical problems except some minor settling;
– Denny Regrade;
– either of the Floating Bridges;
– underground sewer interceptor pipes (do you really want a 20′ pipe filled with poop snaking thru your ‘hood?)
– Sea-Tac Airport;
– the list goes on and on.
So, you have to ask yourself, where would we be without these public projects. What if they had been built by private entities? They certainly would have experienced construction problems. Plus we’d be paying per flush.
The Strangler is using a shotgun to hunt gnats, so I didn’t bother reading the article to see if they documented any of their broad-brush accusations against presumably evil politicians who had crystal balls that forewarned them this was gonna happen. However, the tunnel was never intended to be a ‘freeway’. Like the current viaduct, it would be a ‘highway.’ And the stats they cited are meaningless. And the fact that Murray sponsored the bill is meaningless as well, unless you expect that every politician should put up their house as collateral for every bill they sponsor.
So, what’s your solution (besides the obvious, which is to never, ever believe a politician when they make any sort of specific, future-based promise)?
June 22, 2014 at 4:37 am #810093
metrognomeParticipantBTW, here’s the actual, final version of the bill submitted by the truly evil Murray, co-sponsored by 4 equally evil minions and subject to numerous amendments by wicked legislators:
and, here’s a link to all the supporting documents, presumably written by faceless, nameless and soulless bureaucrats who just invented facts and figures to please their Overlords:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=5768&year=2009
If you’re having trouble sleeping, I highly recommend the videos of the committee meetings.
June 22, 2014 at 4:38 am #810094
theeParticipantJune 22, 2014 at 4:56 am #810095
pupsarebestParticipantSoooo…anyone who is appalled by this epitome of a boondoggle is against everything, is that it?
Don’t try to vilify those who see this for what it is.
Presenting this colossal clusterf**k as “just the way these things go” is tantamount to giving someone a box of pig-poop and trying to convince them it’s actually a box of chocolates.
I am pro-government, pro-infrastructure, pro-improvement.
The Tunnel fiasco discourages me and others who share that attitude, and gives ammunition to those who do not.
June 22, 2014 at 1:58 pm #810096
JoBParticipanti am afraid i agree that this was an ill conceived project from the start.. for several reasons..
and Murray’s sponsorship of it was a fair indication of the kinds of choices he is already making as Mayor.
July 10, 2014 at 10:07 pm #810097
redblackParticipanti’m on record as being against this project from the get-go. but it’s not the size, scope, scale, cost, or even the concept that appall me.
it’s the duplicity involved in getting the project green-lighted. it was ass-backwards.
big seattle money has been dreaming of burying SR-99 under downtown for decades. the nisqually quake and a bevy of milquetoast, pro-business politicians finally gave them an excuse to put the agenda forward.
i read the EIS. it was anything but impartial. it read like an argument for building the tunnel, and as if it was written to discourage any other options.
i’ve mentioned the fixed budget and the gutting of the contingency fund ad nauseum.
my favorite politician’s argument, though, was, “the viaduct is unsafe and will eventually kill someone. so, uhh, let’s keep using it until 2016.”
mega-projects and modernization are great. i’m all for them. but not when they require a lowest-bid-wins mentality to achieve.
that process is fine for most construction, but not for this particular project.
July 11, 2014 at 2:29 pm #810098
waynsterParticipantSo true red once done the vultures known as developers will swoop in……for the condo building will begin and it will look like crap displace the small business owners who are there now….only if you have a million or two will you able to afford these or pay rent at 5 grand or more a month…..I don’t think my retirement check in the near future will cover it….any bankers want to loan me million or two…sure they do lmfao….
July 27, 2014 at 4:02 am #810099
auParticipantDo you think the city will want to build a park for the condo dwellers?
Nah, probably not, I mean were would they get the money?
connect.the.dots…
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