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1. Jiggers
   Member Profile

   

   I was just curious what you thought that is it illegal to be homeless not pay rent to a somebody and live outdoors freely.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

2. skeeter
   Member Profile

   I have no legal training, so my answer is close to worthless, but this question intrigued me. My understanding is that EVERYTHING is legal unless there is a specific law which makes an action illegal.

   So then. I do not believe it is illegal to be homeless. However, a homeless person will have some difficulty not violating other laws. It is illegal, I'm 99% sure, to urinate in a city park. So if a person, homeless or not, finds himself in a park at midnight and the bathrooms are locked, he'll be breaking the law when he relieves himself behind a bush.

   I think loitering is often illegal as well - though I've never looked into those statutes.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

3. skeeter
   Member Profile

   Jiggers, why do you ask?

   Posted 7 months ago #         

4. Jiggers
   Member Profile

   

   skeeter..do you actually give a damn? I ddn't think so. Because the great economy we have is sending more people to sleep in their cars. It is illegal to 'Lie Down" anywhere in King County by the way. New law put in place about two years ago. It says that in the "Rules of Conduct" at City Hall on the front door with the rest of its rules.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

5. skeeter
   Member Profile

   I'm completely confused by your post #4 Jiggers. I thought you were asking whether being homeless was against the law. I attempted to answer your question with the caveat that I have no legal training. Why are you upset with me? What makes you think I am not concerned with homelessnes? Perhaps I just didn't understand your question, and I apologize for any misunderstanding.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

6. DBP
   Member Profile

   Jiggers: A suggestion. Whenever someone's response to a post makes you angry, take a deep breath and walk away from the comptuer for 10 minutes. When you come back, re-read the post to make sure you got the message the poster intended.

   If you're still pissed-off after waiting and re-reading, respond accordingly.

   ****************************************************************************************

   Now then, to answer your very thoughful question:

   Yes, for all intents and purposes, it IS illegal to be homeless, though most of the codes about loitering, public urination, etc. are not enforced strictly in all locations across the city.

   The loitering laws will stay on the books, however. They come in handy whenever a homeless person becomes too visible in public, or otherwise makes a nuisance of himself.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

7. Jiggers
   Member Profile

   

   mY BAD..

   Posted 7 months ago #         

8. Jiggers
   Member Profile

   

   My bad... So DBP.. If you lose your job and you can't make rent and have to sleep outdoors it is illegal to be homeless then.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

9. kootchman
   Member Profile

   3 hots and a cot... we aim to please here in Seattle.

   Posted 7 months ago #         

10. funkietoo
    Member Profile

    3 hots 'n' a cot...only if there is room.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

11. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    how do you get three hots and a cot koootch?

    Posted 7 months ago #         

12. kootchman
    Member Profile

    the slammer dude...

    Posted 7 months ago #         

13. waterworld
    Member Profile

    

    Jiggers: The government cannot make it a crime to be without a home or a job or money or whatever. There is a long line of Supreme Court cases dealing with laws that criminalize vagrancy, loitering, and other forms of being out and about in the world. Almost all of these laws get struck down as unconstitutional. Sometimes, the law is so vague that an ordinary person wouldn't know when his conduct crossed the line. Sometimes, the law is so broad, it basically lets the police decide whether any one person's behavior is a crime. There are also cases where a law was struck down based on the constitutional right to travel, on due process grounds, or on first amendment grounds.
    .
    One of the great cases is Papachristou v. City of Jacksonville, which involved a law banning loitering, wandering or strolling, or, despite being able to work, "habitually living upon the earnings of their wives or minor children." The Jacksonvill cops arrested a group of people saying that they were loitering and likely getting ready to commit a crime. In reality, it appears, the cops were pissed because two white women were in a car with two black guys, driving to a nightclub. The year was 1971. And the town, as the name of the case suggests, was Jacksonville.
    .
    Anyway, Justice William O. Douglas wrote the opinion reversing the convictions. He said that in addition to the problems of overbreadth and vagueness, this particular law was unconstitutional because it infringed on the "unwritten amenities" of life.

    "The difficulty is that these activities are historically part of the amenities of life as we have known them. They are not mentioned in the Constitution or in the Bill of Rights. These unwritten amenities have been in part responsible for giving our people the feeling of independence and self-confidence, the feeling of creativity. These amenities have dignified the right of dissent and have honored the right to be nonconformists and the right to defy submissiveness. They have encouraged lives of high spirits rather than hushed, suffocating silence. They are embedded in Walt Whitman's writings, especially in his 'Song of the Open Road.' They are reflected, too, in the spirit of Vachel Lindsay's 'I Want to Go Wandering,' and by Henry D. Thoreau."

    Many of these laws descended from early English statutes that were so incredibly oppressive I couldn't even summarize it for a forum post. And American cities and states, in their wisdom, often buy into the logic that they can keep their streets "clean, safe and free of crime" by outlawing poverty, unemployment and homelessness, instead of addressing the problems. That's where Kootchman is coming from, perhaps.
    .
    Fortunately, the highest courts have usually seen through it. Unfortunately, local and state government still adopt these laws routinely, and they frequently continue enforcing the laws even after they have been struck down. That's your tax dollars at work.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

14. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    The 'No lying down' law in downtown Seattle discriminates against disabled and medically compramised people who need to lie down to rest

    Posted 7 months ago #         

15. FullTilt
    Member Profile

    

    Its just a troll jan. Ignore it and it will go away.

    Posted 7 months ago #         

16. JanS
    Member Profile

    

    and, poof, it went away...Mr. Full Tilt, you are psychic ! :)

    Posted 7 months ago #         

17. smy
    Member Profile

    So bloody ticked off by a recent posting that I was going to finally write a few words in response. Posting pulled or did I just hallucinate that brief and amazingly ignorant diatribe somehow?

    Posted 7 months ago #         

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