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1. Ken
   Member Profile

   

   President Bush says torture anywhere is an affront to human dignity everywhere, and the United States is committed to building a world where human rights are respected and protected by the rule of law.

   Read more: http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2003/June/20030626153956nirog0.7272455.html

   and now.

   SCHIEFFER: How much did President Bush know specifically about the methods that were being used? We know that you--and you have said--that you approved this...
   CHENEY: Right.
   SCHIEFFER: ... somewhere down the line. Did President Bush know everything you knew?
   CHENEY: I certainly, yes, have every reason to believe he knew --he knew a great deal about the program. He basically authorized it. I mean, this was a presidential-level decision. And the decision went to the president. He signed off on it.

   http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977683975&grpId=3659174697241980&nav=Groupspace

   Posted 3 years ago #         

2. JoB
   Member Profile

   Ken...

   Cheney's quote reads a lot stronger than it viewed in the interview... I think we should rename this the Cheney presidency... because that appears to be what we got..

   not that i absolve Bush of any guilt in this.

   Posted 3 years ago #         

3. Lucile 2
   Member Profile

   JoB, I so agree. Cheney makes my skin crawl wayyyy more than Bush does, and I was raised as a repub!

   Posted 3 years ago #         

4. HMC Rich
   Member Profile

   

   Pelosi is trying to cover her big San Fran butt, and you bring up something to change the conversation. Nice ploy. :)

   Actually Ken, this is a good topic.

   From what I have researched enhanced interrogations usually are far less effective than the nasty stuff.

   I am grateful no major attacks occurred in the US. Torture is wrong. Period.

   I know that some of our troops are subjected to enhanced interrogation at the SERE school. Here is one from a military rascal. http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/12/us_military_run.html

   here is one from US News and World Report.
   http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2009/04/17/bush-lawyers-used-us-military-training-to-justify-cia-interrogation-techniques.html

   All I can say is that Presidents make decisions that in hind sight look bad or good. Should FDR have been prosecuted for the Japanese descent Americans internment in camps? Should Truman have been prosecuted for dropping two atomic bombs? Should Reagan have been prosecuted for Iran Contra? Should Jerry Ford been prosecuted for ordering Swine Flu vaccinations that caused possibly more deaths than the flu would have?

   I hope we do not hear about torture again from future presidents. I also hope terrorists would go away but I fear that may not happen. We can hope. It also seems this new administration will not allow enhanced interrogation.

   If cartoons can make a certain group of people riot, I hope the ACLU is not successful in getting more photos released.

   Posted 3 years ago #         

5. JoB
   Member Profile

   HMCRich...

   really? you think this is nothing more than a distraction from Pelosi?

   With Pelosi.. everyone is in a dither about what did she know and when? With Cheny and Bush it's what did they DO and when...

   don't you think it is just a bit hypocritical to worry about what Pelosi knew and sanitize what Cheny and Bush did with terms like enhanced interrogation?

   how exactly is enhanced interrogation different from torture? Ventura says it's not.. and he should know having endured it as part of his Navy Seal training.

   This is so not about political finger pointing..

   Posted 3 years ago #         

6. Lucile 2
   Member Profile

   ewwwwwwww, Pelosi...

   Posted 3 years ago #         

7. HMC Rich
   Member Profile

   

   Oh JoB, It is all political. Don't be silly.

   http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=15&sid=168791

   How are Bush and Cheney sanitizing this? They admitted to using harsh interrogations. They are not hiding.

   I didn't hear many complaints when it came out that Clinton signed and EXTRAORDINARY RENDITION to capture and take suspected terrorists to other countries. Below is a link concerning this. Man, this stuff is nasty.

   Obama backed off on prosecuting Bush and Cheney because his own Attorney General helped the Clinton administration "kidnap" enemies of the state and move them to CIA detention camps on foreign soil. If the lawyers for Bush Cheney get disbarred, would it not allow others to go after Holder and others?

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

   The fact is Pelosi could have spoken out earlier but it either wasn't politically popular at the time or it just wasn't important enough to her.

   Posted 3 years ago #         

8. JoB
   Member Profile

   HMC Rich...

   There is a difference between use and abuse... and what happened during the Bush/Cheney years more than crossed that line.

   I don't deny that all politicians use power. i won't even deny that all politicians abuse power at some point... But that doesn't justify the Bush/Cheney administration's administrative practice of making the abuse of power routine administrative policy.

   There is a huge difference... that has nothing to do with which side of the partisan bickering you defend.

   Posted 3 years ago #         

9. Trick
   Member Profile

   

   Members of congress are prohibited to discuss intelligence briefings. That's a law, period.
   Yes, Pelosi should've spoke up, prosecute her as well then.
   However, bringing up Pelosi is the clay pigeon flying over the Jackals that ordered it and then denied it. Who are the cowards then?
   Spin 101, Harsh interrogations = Torture
   same as using the spin word collateral damage.
   Why do all Republicans bring up "I am grateful no major attacks occurred in the US".
   9/11 happened on Bush's vacation time. Then the chests got puffed out after the fact when they had clear causes for concern.

   Posted 3 years ago #         

10. HMC Rich
    Member Profile

    

    Sorry, but it is relevant. After the fact, she took a position. I understand certain items cannot be shared. She attacked those tactics at some point to make political and/or human rights points. It seems she said a few different things. She needs to tell the truth. Remember, it was the press asking these questions of her. The Republicans are just following through as would Dems if it was reversed. She is being called on the carpet. Now answer the question.

    You ask Why do Republicans bring up "I am grateful no major attacks occurred in the US"? The answer is obvious and it is about caring for you and the rest of this country.

    9/11 happened during Bush's presidency. The first attack on the WTC was during Clinton's regime. Gee, was that Bush Senior's fault too? Eventually our government decided that some people out there didn't like us very much.

    Pelosi has told four or five different stories. Bush and Crew have one. They used waterboarding on three terrorists. Whether we like it or not it happened. The debate is on. Hopefully good will come out of it.

    Obama has stated he is not going after the former heads of the administration. But to go after servants of the government? I guess we will find out what happens.

    Posted 3 years ago #         

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