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Insurance Cost and Risk

Started 5 months ago by hooper1961
Latest reply from redblack

hooper1961
Member Profile

The Federal Government has mandated that everyone buy health insurance. In yesterday's (11.21.2012) Seattle Times there was an article discussing the mandate. The mandate does not allow for any risk costing except smoking and age; from what I have seen.

The age costing appears to limit the cost to an older person to no more than 3 times that of a young adult that essentially foists higher cost onto the young adult! These same young adults are being saddled with horrendous debt. How is this equitable?

There are other factors that need to be allowed to equitably assign charges.

Car insurers charge premiums based on risk. Motorists at higher risk pay more. Health insurance needs to also charge based on risk (factors that are controllable).

I understand that an open comment period to the mandate is to occur soon. Whether our feedback is listened to or not is another story.

Posted 5 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

Look, blooper . . . er . . . I mean hooper . . .

How long is it gonna take for you to realize that people are just not that interested in this stuff?

(And don't mistake their interest in tweaking you for interest in the topic.)

Have you tried one of the thousands of actuarial science discussion groups out there on the Internets? There's even an actuary dating service out there, I think.

It's called "Odds Are."

Posted 5 months ago #
hooper1961
Member Profile

DBP

People who purchase health insurance on their own should very well be interested in this subject. I have already seen my cost go up 14%. Without reasonable risk costing the new mandate will foist substantially higher cost on low risk people that is not fair.

How would you like it if your car insurance company charged you a premium based on the risk factor of a teen age driver?

Posted 5 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

Happy Thanksgiving, Hooper. this is one day to put these things aside, and be thankful that you have a full life . Have a great day.

(because I can't believe you'd rather be miserable and kvetchy today)

Posted 5 months ago #
hooper1961
Member Profile

JanS

you are correct

hoop

Posted 5 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Ah... peace reigns for a day//
Now, that is something to be thankful for

Posted 5 months ago #
hooper1961
Member Profile

insurance needs to be risk based otherwise it is not fair. i understand that with health insurance some factors are outside ones control; but factors that are controllable need to be assessed accordingly.

how would it feel to be charged for car insurance like a high risk teenage driver when you are a low risk middle age driver?

health insurance premiums need to allow some risk costing other than just smoking to be more equitable.

Posted 5 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

well, then, if that's how you feel, Hoop, why don't you tell that to the insurances...you know, the horses mouth :)

Posted 5 months ago #
kgdlg
Member Profile

I don't think you can compare auto and health insurance. Because for the people who choose to illegally go without insurance, the rest of us don't have to pick up the tab for vehicular damage. Unlike health insurance, where those millions without it de facto utilize emergency care and drive up the overall cost for everyone. That is the point of the ACA, that if we bring in millions of the younger and healthier uninsured, it will, on balance be overall less expensive than the craziness we have now. Would you rather 30% increases for the insured year to year, or bring everyone in, and reduce those year to year jumps down to CPI or hopefully something close to it? Obviously the proof is in the pudding and it is too soon to judge about cost reduction. We will need to need a full year of implementation before we will know how it works.

Posted 5 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

hoop..

"how would it feel to be charged for car insurance like a high risk teenage driver when you are a low risk middle age driver?"

i don't know how to tell you this...
but as you age it doesn't matter what your driving record is... the smallest infraction of any kind kicks you in the risky old codgers pool.

I don't know who told you that life is fair
but you really shouldn't have believed them.

Posted 5 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kgdlg

"Because for the people who choose to illegally go without insurance, the rest of us don't have to pick up the tab for vehicular damage."

but, we do...
we insure against them by paying a surcharge for uninsured motorists :(

Posted 5 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

I remember one time, as part of an insurance-related thread started by himself, hooper said that he lost some stupendous amount of weight. I think it was 100 lbs, but it could well have been more.

When I read that, I thought: BAM! Interesting topic! I would so like to hear about how ANYONE could lose that much.

Do you think such a topic can even be entertained? We've tried it before, but it devolved into a put-down fest and we got shushed.

Posted 5 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

hey..it's the editors call...so respect it. Sheesh!

Posted 5 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

Better yet.....if you want to talk about that subject, start your own blog and you and hoop have at it ..

Posted 5 months ago #
WSB
Member Profile

Regarding 2 deleted early-morning posts:

Anyone who has chosen to repeatedly not respect WSB rules has chosen to no longer participate here. Sorry that for the first time in three years, we've seen a couple people make that choice lately. - Tracy

Posted 5 months ago #
hooper1961
Member Profile

DBP it was 70 lbs. I eliminated alcohol (except an occasional glass of wine), no sweets (except occasional ice cream) and exercise. And try to get 8 hours of sleep every night.

JoB (post 11) - we do get screwed by motorists who choose to illegally without insurance via higher rates they call it under-insured motorist premium!

Posted 5 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

hoop..

so your answer is to get screwed by paying an underinsurance premium for people who don't insure their health?

because we do you know.. we pay that premium in inflated insurance costs
and again in tax supported medical care dispensed through emergency rooms.

without the mandate we all get double dipped hoop.
and that's not fair.

Posted 5 months ago #
elikapeka
Member Profile

If you have a large enough pool, these differences become less and less apparent. Another reason why Medicare for all would have been the best solution.

Posted 5 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

hoop..

I want to congratulate you on your weight loss.
I know it probably wasn't easy for you.

but if giving up booze guaranteed weight loss..
i would be one skinny minnie.
I haven't had a single drink in 20+ years.

i have eliminated sweets as well...
except for the occasional dark chocolate splurge.

i even eliminated the cocacola that was keeping me going..
and still upped my exercise.

i am still waiting for those pounds to fall...
but not holding my breath.

you see..
i have a few decades on you..
and the gender disadvantage
and a chronic illness or two that makes what you call exercise difficult at best
and immune dysfunction that does a tap dance on my metabolism

those aren't excuses, just facts.

if losing weight was either easy or appropriate for everyone the trillion dollar weight loss industry would never have gotten off the ground.

You may be slimmer than you once were hoop, but that only means you are carrying around your genetic load in a package that pleases you more when you pass the mirror.

It's what you do to stay slim that impacts your health... and even that doesn't always negate whatever genetic or environmental load you carry forward from your childhood.

did you know that childhood poverty is the number one risk factor for chronic illness?

Isn't that amazing.
We can lower our national healthcare cost by simply feeding children.
and no-one has to be made to feel guilty in the process.

Posted 5 months ago #
hooper1961
Member Profile

JoB another option is to simply stop providing charity care. There is nothing in the US constitution that requires people to be provided charity care.

regarding weight - i went to a third world country and saw no overweight people except american tourists!

Posted 5 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

I've been to Third World countries too, and my impression was the same. Where I went, there weren't many Americans. But there were plenty of Europeans and Australians who did a pretty good Archie Bunker impression.

Here's a shot of some of my in-laws in Cambodia. The whole village pretty much looks like this:

Folks in the Cambodian outback are skinny for several reasons, including:

► Low fat / low sugar diet
► Lots of backbreaking physical labor
► Parasites

Methinks we should be discriminating about which aspects of their lifestyle we choose to emulate.

*****************************************************************************************

FYI: It's an established fact that one can be "overweight" and still be perfectly healthy. A surprisingly large percentage of people who have heart attacks are slender.

Posted 5 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

thanks for those last two paragraphs, DBP. Yes, being thin does not necessarily mean being healthy. Ewell (sp) Gibbons, others who lived very healthy lifestyles, and...wonder of wonders, had heart attacks and died.

About those third world countries...another reason they're thin is possibly because there ain't a lot of food? Famine, starvation does take a toll...and malnutrition is rampant in some places...but they're still thin, so that must be OK, huh, Hoop?

Posted 5 months ago #
miws
Member Profile

Ah, to be a relatively young, healthy, slender fitness guru!

Mike

Posted 5 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

hoop..

providing charity care is cost effective..
especially when that charity care goes to children

you my friend are penny wise and pound foolish...

Posted 5 months ago #
elikapeka
Member Profile

'At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, 'it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.'
'Are there no prisons?"

'Plenty of prisons,' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
'And the Union workhouses.' demanded Scrooge. 'Are they still in operation?'

'Both very busy, sir.'

'Oh. I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,' said Scrooge. 'I'm very glad to hear it.'

'Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,' returned the gentleman, 'a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?'

'Nothing!' Scrooge replied.

'You wish to be anonymous?'

'I wish to be left alone,' said Scrooge. 'Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned-they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.'

'Many can't go there; and many would rather die.'

'If they would rather die,' said Scrooge, 'they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

---from A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens
-------------------
Merry Christmas, Hooper!

Posted 5 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

Elikapeka....brilliant!

Posted 5 months ago #
hooper1961
Member Profile

charity care for children is one thing; but no charity care for adults should be provided. either buy insurance or tough luck.

Posted 5 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

hooper...in 2004, I had severe osteoarthritis in my right hip. Very painful. It had to be replaced. I , being self employed, with pre-existing conditions, could not get insurance, except that which would cost over half of what I made monthly. I was lucky enough to get charity care for 6 months so I could be out of pain. Because of the charity care, I also got a mammogram (hadn't had one in over 4 years).They discovered cancer.Stage 3. Because of that charity care I'm still here to have all the health problems I have now, and yes, to be alive. I find your attitude both ignorant and cruel. As JoB said, penny wise and pound foolish. Who the hell is the decider? You? Seriously? How dare you think that we should just let people languish and die so you can save a few bucks on your rates !!!Just being honest. Go volunteer at a nursing home or a hospital. Go volunteer at a soup kitchen. Get away from your selfishness, and see the people out there that you want to condemn. Sheesh!!!!

Posted 5 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

hoop..

you lack of compassion is showing...
along with your lack of understanding.

you don't seem to understand just how quickly even a well planned life can change.

did hurricane Sandy teach you nothing?

There are people who were doing very well who now don't have homes, don't have cars, don't have jobs and don't have access to health care because their health care insurance was tied to their jobs...

have you thought about what would happen to your family if the big one hit Seattle and wiped out transportation and jobs?

and that's if you don't get hit with some critically chronic illness you didn't expect that wipes out your ability to earn a living and taps out your bank account.

cancer and autoimmune illnesses don't discriminate hoop.. they don't care or how fit you are.. or how well you can lose weight... or how much money you have to fight the illness...

as for accidents.. being in what should be the right place at what should be the right time won't save you from the person who had one too many and got behind the wheel of a car.. or had a stroke while driving.. or simply thought the speed limit was too slow and was astounded to find they were wrong.

it won't save you from slipping on the winter ice.. or stepping off a curb ... or taking a header over the toy that shouldn't have been there.. or ....

you have no idea how quickly our ability to earn a living can disappear... and with it.. your insurance.

i sincerely hope that you never have to find out hoop...
having lived this reality.. it isn't one i would wish on anyone else.

Posted 5 months ago #
miws
Member Profile

but no charity care for adults should be provided. either buy insurance or tough luck.

Posted 5 months ago #
miws
Member Profile

Posted 5 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

thanks, Mike...:)

Posted 5 months ago #
kgdlg
Member Profile

If you are ok with "no charity care" for adults than you are ok with people dying on the street around you. Wow, happy thanksgiving hoop!

Posted 5 months ago #
dobro
Member Profile

"either buy insurance or tough luck."

What this really means- either have money or die. Most people would consider that a profoundly sick attitude.

Posted 5 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

dobro: yet they walk among us and are allowed to reproduce.

they think they pay too much in taxes, yet never question why their insurance premiums are so high, and why a private industry is allowed to arbitrarily set rates through mysterious actuarial tables - behavior that would be declared unconstitutional if it was done by the government.

we elect people to try to rectify this imbalance and their response is to apologize for the insurance industry and demand that they be able to keep their high premiums (even though most of them don't even pay their own premiums), high out-of-pocket rates, and abysmal coverage. they insist until they're blue in the face that their own government - the only tool in their arsenal - is overreaching and meddling with business.

simply amazing.

Posted 5 months ago #

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