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In the wake of the election .. we have some work to do

Started 7 months ago by JoB
Latest reply from JoB

JoB
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what?????
did you think it was all over on election day?

This election opens a door.
It will be up to us to make sure that door isn't closed in our faces.

if the last 4 years taught us nothing else,
it's that the election is little more than a beginning.

It's time for our party..
the party that spent the entire election asking for money while promising little
to dance with those who elected them.

"The Republicans did it" is an excuse..
not a reason to forgo progress.

We don't win by sitting on our laurels..

It's time to end corporate personhood
to ratify the ERA
to repeal the constitutional nightmare of DOMA
to push for single payer health care
to end discrimination against gay people
to fight for compassionate immigration reform
to reform our financial institutions
to put scientists back to work for America
to rebuild our national infrastructure

and that's just my personal short list

four years is not a long time to get a shitload of work started...

Posted 7 months ago #
skeeter
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I'm hopeful we can get something done too. Bush's second term was such a waste of an opportunity. I'd like to add social security/medicare long-term solvency to the list of things we need to accomplish.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

skeeter..

medicare and social security are not our nation's largest financial issues...

our nation's financial solvency is the largest issue
and that can only be solved by putting taxpayers back to work.

any single payer option would create solvency for medicare
and social security is solvent as long as the bonds it holds from our treasury are solvent

short term profit taking style management is not the answer
this is going to take some long term planning and prudent investment of our national resources...

as odd as it may seem.. at the end of the day we all want fundamentally the same things...
an America where we all have the opportunity to prosper...

the way we have been going about it is clearly broken
Instead of compromising... and institutionalizing the worsts of both political systems
perhaps it's time we forged some new territory centered on actual solutions...

Posted 7 months ago #
Bostonman
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I will be impressed if even 2 of the things on your list happen. I think we are going to get drawn into a war with Iran via Isreal that will divert most peoples attention.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
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Bostonman...

i sincerely hope that you are wrong because it is the wrong thing for our nation to do
we can't afford another war financially, physically or morally.

Posted 7 months ago #
clark5080
Member Profile

You can push all you want but if you are not willing to compromise it will go nowhere. After all we have essentially the same House and Senate (only a coupe of minor changes unless I missed something). I mean compromise from all parties.

Posted 7 months ago #
Ms. Sparkles
Member Profile

I totally agree with your list JoB. I am hoping (I might be naieve - but let me dream) that now that Mr. President is a lame duck, the gloves will come off and he'll start being the President the GOP was so worried about after the first election.

Posted 7 months ago #
Julie
Member Profile

Okay--I know it's hard to keep focused on the long-term future, but climate change is going to create a lot of very expensive misery. I know it's hard to envision. I think it gets pushed aside because it's such a huge problem and so long-term. It's easier to work on the stuff that is evident to us immediately. But we need to look past immediate issues, and work to prevent and mitigate the destruction of species, ecosystems, and communities.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
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sorry julie
i mentally lumped climate change in with science

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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What changed? 30 states now are led by republicans governors. A few musical chairs in the Senate.. The House is obviously doing the right thing.. cause they were given the franchise back by the people. Harry? Ready to compromise? If ya don't .... the wish lists go away.

Posted 7 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

i'll tell you what changed: the quality of democrats that were elected to the senate tuesday night. instead of people like joe liebermann or blanche lincoln, we have elizabeth warren and tammy baldwin. and the junior senator from maine just might caucus with democrats.

i believe what we saw tuesday was a push back against austerity and voodoo economics.

and i largely agree with jo, but my number one issues are campaign finance reform, negating citizens united v. FEC, and taking away K street's influence on the people's house. we're going to have a hard time accomplishing anything on that list if we can't overcome the flood of money.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

redblack..

i agree with you. the money is our biggest problem
ending corporate personhood is a start.
it isn't enough.. but it is a start.

kootch..

what you failed to notice on election day is that those whose opportunity you would squelch with the policies you favor aren't so easily purchased with television advertising... even when they can't skip the commercials.

They believe in the American ideals and they vote.

Step outside that bubble you keep yourself in and you will find that this nation has a different perspective on things.

as for those 30 Republican strongholds you mention.. all states are not created equal...

the population of the minority democratic states far outweighs those of your majority republican...
as evidenced by the electoral college vote...

and within those Republican states..
the democratic strongholds called cities generate the income.

You have respect for the power of money kootch.
think this one through.

If Republicans continue on their current obstructionist trajectory..
i suspect you will see that state majority melt away to nothing.

did you go beyond those winning headlines and look at the actual results in those red states? your mandate dwindled significantly on election night.

I am betting that isn't what they are telling you on conservative speak is it?

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Ah... but the founders in their wisdom, structured another remedy... control of the Senate has nothing to do with population. And... the voters slammed the state cookie jar shut for the legislators..no more taxes w/o a super majority... AND.... ready JoB... we GOT charter schools. Finally. Now, we go to work on vouchers. BTW... as super majority to raise taxes in WA state? Very large margin. He has 24 months to get a GDP rate to 7 per cent or better. If you think ya did great... less people voted for Obama than 08.. and his popular vote looks like it may break 2%... it wasn't a landslide or a mandate. A good solid win.. but not nearly enough for your wish list. Now.. you have to start actually paying of Obamacare...and we will see how many small businesses drop coverages, how many of those 30 red states will raise taxes to meet the mandates (participation is optional) and how many FT jobs now go parttime. I am betting.. more offshoring.

Posted 7 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

At the core of most kootchman posts is this point about money. As in: How do we pay for all the cool stuff we want?

Single payer healthcare
New infrastructure
Lower tuition

I mean . . . I'm for all this stuff, too, but on the other hand, yeah, it does cost $$$.

And $$$ is just what we ain't got a lot of right now.

So how do we get more $$$ ???

► Tax rich people?

Yes, but as the kootchman has also pointed out, that won't nearly fill the hole. And if it has the effect of stoking politicians to spend even MORE money, then it's worse than nothing.

► Print more money and pretend the deficit doesn't matter?

You know, there are people who seriously defend this position, but personally it worries me. There was a time when the US could keep writing these checks without ever balancing the books, and the rest of the world would pretty much have to accept that our money was worth whatever we said it was worth. But those days are gone.

► Inject more money into the economy?

You can make the case that spending on infrastructure pays dividends in terms of jobs, which it does, somewhat, but in the old days (the Eisenhower days) whenever you built a new road, new factories and permanent jobs would spring up beside it, so the math worked out better. It ain't like that no more, though. What's the point of repairing a road that leads to a shuttered factory?

The South Park Bridge is being rebuilt to the tune of what? A hundred million? Ya gonna have to sell a lot of extra latte's to justify that.

Juuuuuuuust sayin'

Posted 7 months ago #
hooper1961
Member Profile

the roman's neglected their infrastructure and their civilization collapsed.

this country spends 18% of its GNP on healthcare, canada less than 10%. maybe it's time to identify basic cost effective minimum care that is provided to all us citizens with a co-pay. and insurance for those wishing to be provided every expensive procedure known to man kind. if you break a leg you can for a small co-pay get it fixed, but if you are unlucky to get cancer and did not buy insurance too bad! a tax on junk food and soda pop, like tabacco taxes to help fund the program.

the problem with obamacare is there are no real cost controls and limits on what is covered.

Posted 7 months ago #
miws
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Posted 7 months ago #
hooper1961
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miws

yes democracies have an inherent challenge - everyone wants services and wants someone else to pay for them.

if everyone had some skin (ie pay taxes; working age people) in the game things would change.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kootch..

"AND.... ready JoB... we GOT charter schools. Finally. Now, we go to work on vouchers."

and what, i wonder will be left for the public school system when you are done?

I am guessing that the people who voted for spending public school dollars on charter schools didn't think about who was going to pick up the tab kootch...

the stranger said it well .. i think today...

you can't cover the federal mandate to spend more on education AND reduce taxes...

what exactly are YOU willing to give up to pay for your new toy?

News flash. your guy didn't win the election.
and even though Obama's personal legacy is likely to be President most willing to give the opposition anything they want that's even remotely reasonable... you aren't going to get it all your way.

because the people didn't like your way at all.

it isn't just the really incredibly stupid stuff they said..
it was that their policies that made them think that stupid stuff was acceptable :(

Your guys got spanked big time every time you opened our mouths and told your truth... but you think we have to do it your way anyway?

i don't think so.

Posted 7 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

hooper:

yes democracies have an inherent challenge - everyone wants services and wants someone else to pay for them.

and there - what you just said right there - is the fallacy in the republican/libertarian argument.

we, the people, want "stuff" and "things," as bill o'reilly said, but your mistake is assuming that we don't want to pay for them, or that we don't prefer jobs and paying taxes over government checks.

that old saw originates from the wealthy among us, who beleive that they, themselves, shouldn't have to pay for the rabble in this country or any of the "stuff" or "things" that industrialized first-world nations provide for their citizens by consensus. and they made the rabble believe that there's no difference between kazillionaires and kentucky dirt farmers.

brother, you have to stop believing what that old ghost, ronald wilson reagan, sold you back in 1980.

because he's as full of shit now as he was back then. and so are his apologists.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

what redblack said is true

We the people do want a personal return for our tax dollar ..

we want roads and sewers and clean water and schools for our children and affordable health care and pensions the companies we work for can't walk away from in profitable bankruptcy reorganizations...

and to be allowed to live in at least genteel poverty in our old age...

and we want acknowledgment for the work we do

I know.. it's a lot to ask, isn't it?

Posted 7 months ago #