What do they plan on doing about the issues we care about?
Small town, big town. Dress cost, hair cut cost. Married to beer or ketchup. Muslim, christian. Snow machine racer, train rider. Down's syndrome, wife with cancer. Shrill, elitist. Really?
I'll start. I care about health, education, jobs and the economy, security and international standing, woman's right to choose, gay's right to exist and love who they want. Poverty, hunger, etc, etc, etc. Anyone else?
mellaw6565
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JT - I think many of those issues have been discussed already - both on the Dem Convention thread and others.
What did you hear the Dems say? I heard a lot - haven't heard the same from the Repub's yet. What do they plan on doing - the same thing we've had for 8 years? About the only thing on your list above that the Repub's have talked about is security - nothing else.
Those issues mean a lot to me too - and I'm satisfied with some of the answers I'm hearing from the Dem's to address them.
Also, in your "comparisons" - who's the Muslim?
I agree with mellaw, JT. You may want to sample the rest of the posts - they've addressed those issues and have been rather entertaining at that! :) We'd enjoy your input.
No one is a Muslim. Some Reps accused Obama and my point is we don't need to act that way ourselves. We don't like it. It's trivial. Why are we participating in the same behavior?
Take any issue instead. Iraq. I want Obama and the cast of intelligent people he will surround himself with, deciding the safest way to get our troops home. I don't want McCain and his shoot first, use the most military might, mentality figuring it out.
I am with you JT, my silly talk about her kids names was just that, silly talk. which is what i heard coming out of the mouth of sarah palin hours before , I listened to her speech and heard none of what you listed.I heard a few lies though. If she would have given us meat to discuss we could do that, but she did not, she has no idea what the life of a gay person is like, or poverty or inner city issues or the fact that the worlds view of america is diminishing and fast.
If Palin gave us nothing to discuss, wouldn't that make it easier to share our ideas? I want to convince independents, and maybe a few Republicans that we have great ideas to improve our country. Deciding if Palin is a good mom is as relevant as wondering if Bill was a good husband. Not our business if she is. It's her families concern.
mellaw6565
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I agree HP - the "fun" that we've been having on these posts is because they (Repubs)have not given us any substance to comment on. I've even invited that comment from NR and others - but complete silence.
JT - the only one at this point who is talking about bringing troops home is Obama. McCain has made it clear he's keeping troops in. So, when you are talking about disengaging troops from combat, I think that you can't (1) develop a plan from the outside - in other words, you have to have access from inside advisors in order to formulate the best plan (which Obama doesn't have full access to yet - so no fully developed plan) and (2)you don't want to necessarily air your plan for your enemies. It's a complicated process and I think Obama's more general statements are probably about as specific as he can get at the moment, IMO.
""Our opponents say, again and again, that drilling will not solve all of America's energy problems -- as if we all didn't know that already," she said. "But the fact that drilling won't solve every problem is no excuse to do nothing at all."
"She and Sen. McCain both support new offshore drilling. Gov. Palin also supports drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, something the man at the top of the ticket has declined to do." - WSJ
I believe McCain/Palin are discussing issues. Not only issues, but reform. That is what is important to me.
We need change. But not "change" without a plan; change, as in reform with clear plans to back up the talk. This is what a vote for McCain/Palin will accomplish
mellaw - I have responded to you (it's in one of the 4 bashing of Palin threads).
I didn't get on the computer last night or earlier today, because I knew that it would be filled with hateful, snarky, silly, unimportant banter that had nothing to do with real issues.
I enjoyed the speech and didn't want it ruined for me, but I did answer you today.
NR - That's laughable you speak of hateful, snarky, silly banter. I think thats what the RNC was dishing out last night. Even today the Dems are keeping the highroad and complimenting Palin on her speaking abilities and not attacking her with passive agressive comments. As was the case in the speeches last night.
acemotel
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Can't get much more spiteful than Giuliani last night. Palin speech last night = the definition of silly banter. complete with pig joke.
"Even today the Dems are keeping the highroad and complimenting Palin on her speaking abilities and not attacking her with passive agressive comments." - MissK
I haven't seen that here on this forum. Where is that?
NR - I have not attacked any poster who posts differing views. If you have read any of my past posts I said she was very personable. However, to be in the office of Veep, she is just not ready. I hope that they have a town hall style debate. See how she can hold herself without the teleprompter or speech writers.
mellaw6565
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MissK - I'm waiting for that too - an "unscripted" Palin.
NR - when it came to snide and snarky - Palin's speech took the cake last night. It was awful in its' hateful rhetoric. It was a divisive speech, IMO and frankly her swipes turned me off. I was looking for substance and it wasn't there.
However, to be in the office of Veep, she is just not ready.
Yeah, I guess she'll need some tutoring by Dick Cheney in how she too can pull off a murderous rampage with the help of some remote-control planes and thermite...and then pin the blame on a whole group of innocents...anything to get a pipeline built.
mellaw6565
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Actually JT - I think your thread has been jacked - I did want to get back into discussing the issues as you started to do.
We started with the issue of troop withdrawal from Iraq.....
beachdrivegirl
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The Economy is one of the most important issues to me. That is problem one of the biggest reason why I support Obama over McCain.
The Iraq war is another big one for me and it coincides with another one for me which is (as i mentioned in another thread) rebuilding the relationships that are current administration has destroyed with other countries.
LGBT equality is important.
And keeping the US Pro-Choice. Althugh I do have to say, for me, i absolutly disagree with partial birth abortions.
charlabob
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JT, if you wanted this to be a thread about issues, giving it the title of "come on, dems, grow up" was hardly the way to do it.
"Why are we participating in the same behavior?"
Many years ago, I was an extremely even handed far leftist. For example, at that time, I would have said, for example, "Yes, McCain was part of the Keating 5 but he wasn't indicted or even censured. He wasn't the baddest of the bad."
How did I get here? Because it became clear that the REPUGS had no such sense of ethics or fairness. I'm sure there are some individuals who do. But the party platform and philosophy behind it is simply based on lying, stealing, and toughing it out when they get caught.
How do I have a rational discussion of the issues with people whose modus operandi is "Lie and Whine."
It makes me very sad to have to "stoop" to their level. And make no mistake: it is their level. All our "nobility" has gotten us in the past 16 years is stolen elections, corrupt and incompetent government agencies (which will take a decade to reclaim), and a country in danger of joining all of the other fallen empires, with oligarchs thriving on the rubble. There's a reason Bush saw Putin's soul.
All this because they follow the mantra of proving government can do no good, so they can, eventually, drown it in the bathtub.
I love and believe in our country, our constitution, and our ability to be leaders in the world because of our ideals, not because of our weapons. I want my kids and grandkids (whom I don't have to invent) to grow up in that country.
This is not simply a debate -- it's a matter of survival and I don't believe that's an overstatement. The number of people who firmly believe there will be an "attack on our soil" if Obama leads in the polling in October is frightening. And we're right.
Postscript: I scanned the latest postings in other political threads, focusing on R's, and I'm sorry to say the local branch seems to follow the same model. I had hoped to see otherwise.
Charla, but it made you open the thread:) I know it's just wishful, fanciful thinking. It's some dems, and some reps, and only some of the time. All your points are a valid observation. I just want us to be better than that. People are responding to the positive, the message of hope, change, and progress. They are learning that the party of fear and stagnation (I mean tradition) isn't the way to go. I just thought it was worth a shot. I don't need to know how much money Cindy McCain has any more than I needed to know how much money Theresa Heinz had in 2004. That's all.
JT...
i think part of the republican strategy is to focus us on Sarah Palin and forget what's important.
Sarah Plain is not important and her choice as VP running mate shows just how unimportant finding a VP who could fill the President's shoes if he/she had to was to John McCain.
You are right, we really don't have time for this diversion.
Although if Sarah is what it took to get Hillary in middle America sooner rather than later.. I am all for it.
Newsflash: Sarah Palin IS important, she's running for Vice President (not just the first female Republican VP, but the very first female VP)!
It's completely insulting to continuously discredit this candidate simply because she is not Hillary. No, she's not Hillary and that could very possibly be why she has a chance.
Geraldine Ferraro. Read a book.
New Resident...
Sarah Palin is not that important. She is simply the republican VP pick.. and a poorly thought out choice for them.
if Sarah was important for any other reason, you would have known all about her prior to her nomination.
if you did, you are one of the few.
MrJT
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Ah. its time to jump on the JoB bandwagon again.. Well said !
charlabob
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"It's completely insulting to continuously discredit this candidate simply because she is not Hillary."
No, it is completely insulting to nominate a poorly-informed completely unqualified person simply because she is a woman. (List o' adjectives shortened to avoid being kicked off the blog.)
angelescrest
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I've always thought Chelsea Clinton is testimony to successful parenting (under huge pressures).
Creationism (fanaticism), anti-abortion views, drilling! An Iraq war from god...how stupid are we? Can't you see the rationale for further warfare (and lies)?
We need diplomacy and intelligence. We NEED Obama.
JoB - I realize that you are upset that your gal isn't in the running to make history.
The constant slamming of Palin, however, is extremely unattractive.
The reason she is so important is because we haven't heard of her. That works FOR her. I would have thought, with all of your political knowledge, you would have realized that.
How refreshing it is to have someone running who never even expected to be there. She truly is a small-town, American hero; going into politics simply to make her town a better one. This is the change America was looking for.
There is nothing you can do that can change the fact that millions of Americans have fallen in love with Sarah Palin!!!
McCain/Palin '08!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All that I am seeing on this forum lately is desperation.
It's sad, but it makes me laugh.:)
McCain/Palin'08
JenV
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nice one CP
angelescrest
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We were wondering in my household if Palin has ever had any multicultural experiences (outside of Native American)? There wasn't one face of color I could see at the RNC...do you think this woman has ever dealt with urban populations, with Blacks and Hispanics and people of different faiths? GLT population? Wouldn't that kind of be of importance...some knowlege of the citizenry?
mellaw6565
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She probably has experience with Natives and that's about it. Pretty white-bread upbringing for her.
New Resident..
you are right. Sarah Palin is no Hillary...
but that has very little to do with why i dismiss her.
I dismiss her because she adds nothing to the Republican ticket but distraction.
How refreshing is it to have someone who values the life of an embryo over that of the mother?
How refreshing is it to have someone who thinks teen pregnancy is Ok as long as the girl does the right thing and has the child and marries the father?
How refreshing is it that these "values" are touted by the same woman who cut her state's budget for programs designed to help abandoned teen mothers become productive members of society.
I don't find that kind of callous disregard for the well-being of women and children refreshing.
Are those the kinds of small town values you think America should embrace?
I lived in that America and it wasn't a healthy place for women.
As for America falling in love with Sarah Palin... how could they?
America has not even met her yet. She hasn't said anything that hasn't come out of a speechwriter's head.
Part of America may well be infatuated, but it remains to be seen whether that will develop into love once they actually get to know who.. and more importantly.. what Sarah Palin is.
The only reason America can be infatuated with Sarah Palin is that they don't know her yet.
She'd have made a much better weather girl.
angelescrest
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It's not just white-bread, but off-the-map white-bread,having nothing at all to do with the populace. Can you imaginae trying to figure out an urban school system, for example, when you've never been part of one or part of that adjacent, urban environment(or worked as a community activist!!!). This is important.
mellaw6565
Member Profile
JoB - I thought she used to be a weather girl?
if so, she should have stuck with it...
Sheep. All of them, in my opinion.
All this hype for a woman who ISN'T EVEN OUT FIRST FEMALE VP PICK! I guess people so easily forget.
charlabob
Member Profile
"Jesus was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor."
CP - So, in the matter of about an hour you have accused me of being a sheep, and not reading any books.
Have we ever met? What are your reasons for saying these things?
angelescrest
Member Profile
Ha ha, Charla...
New Resident..
she is responding to your comments.. and to republicans in general who are buying the sales job they are getting on Palin.
that's what happens in a public forum.
it's not personal unless someone starts making character comments about you.
read a book is a suggestion, not a comment on your character.
Anyone who was swayed by that speech ALONE is a sheep in my book - just like you have argued in the past about people who were swayed by Obama's rhetoric alone? Pretty weak stuff to base a vote on in my opinion. But you seem to have had your hat in the McCain ring long ago so that counts you out - sorry you can't take personal offense like you so love to do.
ANY books? A bit of a stretch as far as a quote goes. As for reading a book - one about women's history should do if you're looking for recommendations.
Thanks, JoB. I believe we were typing at the same time.
Zenguy
Member Profile
All retoric and no substance. Not even a very good speech by any standard. Unfortunately, that is not what wins elections...usually thirty second commercials and inuendo are the winners...sigh
Hmmm... you're assuming that I haven't read any books on women's history? That's quite an assumption to make on your behalf.
Btw, thought I would share a quote from our friend, JoB, from just a little while back. I thought it was interesting and entertaining.
"if the only way to support your candidate is to dig for the opponents weaknesses then i think that you have to re-examine why you support your candidate." - JoB
Wow. Do you still stand by that belief? I would think, if you do stand by it, you have a lot of re-examining to do. Why don't you read a book.
Zenguy
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I watched both the Obama speech and the McCain speech and there was not much in the McCain speech about what he would do different. There was lots of talk about doing things differently, just not much on specifics.
mellaw6565
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Children, Children - as a Language Arts teacher, let me say one thing: we should all be reading books! At least 30 minutes a night - ok?
acemotel
Member Profile
Sheep....true believers.....these people are a great danger to the United States because they destroy the country from within.
Well the sound of the bottom of the barrel being scraped means it's time for bed. Well said acemotel - a thorn by any name is still as dangerous.
JenV
Member Profile
"Newsflash: Sarah Palin IS important, she's running for Vice President (not just the first female Republican VP, but the very first female VP)!"
NR, again, no one is attacking you personally - just pointing out your extreme lack of historical knowledge. Geraldine Ferraro ran on the Democratic ticket in 1984 for VP. She is a woman.
If you come on here and make a mistake like that, people are going to correct you. When other people do it, you are the first to jump up and correct them. You need to back off and realize not everyone is personally attacking you- it is not all about you. You made an uninformed statement and you were corrected.
NewResident..
of course i stand by my statement... and the key word in that statement is only...
if the ONLY way you can....
so let's line them up, VP to VP
foreign policy experience
Palin 0 Biden 10
women's right's issues
Palin 0 Biden 9
understanding of the national legislative process
Palin 0 Biden 10
human right's issues
Palin 0 Biden 10
commitment to negotiation first, force second
Palin 0 Biden 10
i could go on.. but this is enough to illustrate that i have many diverse reasons for supporting my candidate and that the republican candidate does not even measure on the scales that are important to me.
Sarah Palin is a non-issue... even if she is female.
And i think it is an insult to women to believe that they could be bought with any female on a ticket. if they wanted a woman who would generate cross votes just because she is a woman, they could have picked better.
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