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(9 posts)

Grover, I'll be glad when you're dead you rascal you.


  1. No, not you.

    YOU!

    Grover Norquist's star is setting, and it can't come too soon for some. Republicans are glad to be ridding themselves of this pest. Meanwhile, some Democrats (read: dobro, jo) should now be feeling justified in their prediction that the Republican Party will have to move more to the center, or perish.

    For decades, conservative lobbyist Grover Norquist vowed to drive Republicans out of office if they didn't pledge to oppose tax increases. Many lawmakers signed on.

    But now, several senior Republicans are breaking ranks, willing to consider raising more money through taxes as part of a deal with Democrats to avoid a catastrophic budget meltdown.

    Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker says the only pledge he will keep is his oath of office. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor says no one in his home state of Virginia is talking about what leaders in Washington refer to simply as "The Pledge," a Norquist invention that dates to 1986. Georgia Sen. Saxby Chambliss says he cares more about his country than sticking to Norquist's pledge.

    http://seattletimes.com/html/politics/2019770334_apusantitaxman.html

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  2. "...some Democrats (read: dobro, jo) should now be feeling justified in their prediction..."

    This one is a piece of cake, as far as predictions go. We have the foreshadowing right here in WA state.Remember when there used to be a viable Republican party here? When we had Republican governors and legislatures and such? It's been awhile hasn't it? Generations now. The casting of the WA Repubs into the wilderness pretty much coincides with the takeover of the party by the right wing evangelical nutcases.

    Remember Ellen Craswell? An absolute fundy wingnut elevated to candidate by the Xtian radicals showing up at party functions and taking it over.Fast forward to 2010. The teabaggers take over the national party and have since cost Repubs a majority in the Senate, doomed their Presidential candidate, and still have a lot of pull. Personally, I hope they keep it up. I'd love to not see another Republican president for a generation or so.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  3. redblack
    Member Profile

    redblack

    i had to listen to the house majority leader on msnbc yesterday, just to see if he actually gets it yet.

    the short answer is "no."

    republicans like him are still insisting that rates don't need to be raised on anyone, no matter how well they're doing right now. instead, he started singing that same old republican hymn, "we need to increase the tax base," written by the voodoo economist-in-chief, ronald reagan.

    well... duuuh! does anyone really believe that democrats want the economy to suck this badly and for the government to have to face austerity because unemployment is high and tax rates and revenues are at rock bottom? of course we want tax revenues to increase and for more people to pay in. but we have chronically large deficits and debt. and for a while, both things are going to have to happen. if we're going to do something meaningful about the debt, we will have to have higher tax rates and have more people paying taxes - even after the economy begins to improve.

    in other words, we have to pay for the government we have plus the government that previous administrations and congresses borrowed so heavily for.

    anyway, who elected that clown eric cantor? (yeah yeah, i know. it was the old dominion.) either he thinks we're stupid or he's stupid. either way, it doesn't bode well for the republican brand.

    but he says - reluctantly - that they'll go along with some revenue increases, on the condition that democrats are "serious about entitlement reform."

    and this morning, on the same program, i had to suffer through dick durbin singing that old classic, "let's not talk about defense cuts." nah. the senior senator from illinois went on a 10-minute diatribe about tweaking social security, medicare, and medicaid to wring some savings out of them and raising the amount of revenue they bring in, which is great. but he's playing footsie with the opposition, who won't hear anything except 20% reduction here, hundreds of billions there, get rid of that department altogether.

    but not one damned word about cutting defense or defense contracting.

    and come on, republicans. after 30 years of flat or declining government spending (until TARP blew a hole in the economy and the wars hit the ledger books), low tax rates, low tax revenues, and soaring debt... how long until you guys admit that voodoo economics = FAIL?

    i hear you guys grumbling, "well, i guess we have to raise taxes, because we lost the election."

    what you should be saying is, "well, i guess we have to raise taxes because it's the right thing to do."

    i'm perfectly willing to have reasonable discussions on cutting government spending. but you have to remember that not all government programs pay off immediately. medicare is a good example. food stamps are another. so is giving tax credits for greener electricity production.

    we can be penny wise, but let's not be pound foolish.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  4. The trouble with Republicans moving toward center is that they pulled democrats so far to the right that what looks like center now is not a place any democrat wants to settle.

    and they are still controlling the discussion. whether the rich get their tax rates restored is still on the table. Cutting entitlements is a given :(

    who can feel jsutified by that?

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  5. wakeflood
    Member Profile

    wakeflood

    This is where owning the mainstream media has paid off for the plutocracy. They get to control the narrative while most of the sheep follow their bouncing ball.

    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

    Where was the deficit discussion when Bush 2 was bloating the credit card and handing out tax breaks like candy to corporations and the 1%?? During two wars, no less? Where's the Tea Party then? Oh, that's right, "deficits don't matter" Cheney was in charge.

    Well, he had it exactly backwards, as usual. Deficits are not the priority during a recession but they DID matter when things were humming along during the last bubble and it wasn't even a whisper in mainstream media.

    And even the Pentagon wants the insanity to end. They know the real threat isn't outside military attack, it's cyberwar and falling from within. Just like the bankrupted USSR. Spent their treasure on planes and tanks and missles and forgot that they were rotting out from the middle as a productive society. What do you think OBL wanted to do on 9/11? He knew we'd overreact and sure enough, we did.

    I want my peace dividend from the Cold War (where did that go, exactly???) AND my peace dividend from the Middle East.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  6. redblack
    Member Profile

    redblack

    wake:

    Where was the deficit discussion when Bush 2 was bloating the credit card and handing out tax breaks like candy to corporations and the 1%??

    probably right where they were while reagan was doing the same thing.

    i.e. cheering them on.

    Posted 2 years ago #         
  7. What do you not get?

    I have shown you that JFK link. He did state what the country needed to boost the economy.

    When Republicans give in and raise taxes after Democrats promise to lower spending the Republicans get screwed because the Democrats keep spending and break their promises.

    You always talk about Clinton. Well, he did get a minor tax increase but Gingrich and crew were fiscally responsible. Something Pelosi was not during her reign.

    Now after four years and Trillions of dollars of debt you want to believe that the tripe you are pushing is working? 40 cents on every dollar borrowed and it is only going to get worse. You can't defend that.

    You Demonize Supply Side, but you don't take in all sides. Lower rates, less loopholes, less spending (LESS SPENDING) equals more revenue.

    Now, admittedly the Bush years saw him lower tax rates for the lowest income levels AND the Republicans spent too much. But even Bush's worst year of Deficit spending was only about one quarter of what Reid and Obama have been spending.

    You are handing a selfish debt to the youth of our country. You are being selfish. You are not willing to do what is necessary. It is you who are ruining our country. You don't even have to pretend you are nice anymore.

    We do not want what you are selling because it is corrupt. Seen a budget the last 3 to 4 years? Nahh. Seen meaningful cuts in spending? Nahh.

    BTW, you could have had some meaningful legislation the first two years of Boy Wonders administration, but you didn't do it.

    HE PROMISED TO CUT THE DEFICITS IN HALF. Promise broken.

    So the raiding of Medicare will continue for the upcoming fiscal disaster called the ACA.

    And if any of you even think the Republican party is dead, think about 2010. Worst Democrat defeat. Jerrymandering districts? You got your collective asses kicked.

    The popular narrative is that the Republican party is going away. No Way. I have complete faith that it will rise again and send the left into fits of agony.

    In fact look for another butt kicking in two years. With the ACA and the fiscal cliff looming, I bet even some of the Obamaphone voters might have some remorse.

    So pat yourselves on the back, but don't sprain your shoulder doing so. You won the Presidency and had at best very slight gains in the Senate and House. Nothing has changed really.

    But, it will allow the next generation of Republicans to test the waters and see where some, and only some, changes need to take place.

    Your party will screw this up just like the Republicans did when they became complacent not so long ago.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  8. "In fact look for another butt kicking in two years."

    But then, you thought Romney was going to win. Don't think I'd bet on your predictive abilities.

    "...Bush's worst year of Deficit spending was only about one quarter of what Reid and Obama have been spending."

    Something the wingers will never, never, never get is that GWB put both wars OFF BUDGET. All of Iraq and Afghanistan were funded by "emergency supplementals", a smoke and mirrors trick used so they wouldn't go on the budget. What that means, for the math challenged, is that when Obama was elected and did the responsible thing of putting that debt in the budget and on the books, he "spent" close to a trillion dollars without authorizing one spending bill.

    "Nothing has changed really."

    After the abject failure of Repubs to notice reality in this last skirmish, this kind of attitude makes me feel pretty good. It shows that they think more of the same is going to work next time. Keep singin' that happy tune boys and there will indeed be a butt kicking next time. Just not the one you're thinking about.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  9. HMCRich

    "I have shown you that JFK link. He did state what the country needed to boost the economy."

    I have a news flash for you. That was nearly 50 years ago... and in an entirely different regulatory climate than today's.

    You know.. before Ronnie and the political whiz kids decimated regulation and tanked our economy...

    i have news for you Rich..
    the American people don't want more of the same old same old

    Obama was re-elected on the NOT THEM ticket...

    Not Republican.

    and the same thing happened in nearly every district in America where redistricting didn't guarantee a Republican win.

    the only way that will change is if Obama continues down his Republican lite trajectory..
    and even then it isn't likely to swing Republican.

    That energized base that turned out the vote actually expects some progressive legislation out of their progressive President.

    The Republicans made me do it isn't going to fly any more...

    and if democrats hang on to that position both parties are likely to find themselves redundant in the next election.

    Posted 1 year ago #         

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