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September 23, 2010 at 4:27 pm #596464
eyeswideopenMemberI have a good friend who is a devote Catholic, and I am Atheist.
He is so fluent in expressing his beliefs, while I find it difficult to articulate my reasons for being Atheist to him.
I came across a website that explains my feelings about all religion perfectly. I think it is a great resource for everyone to start thinking and speaking rationally about religion.
September 23, 2010 at 4:35 pm #704129
JiggersMemberI’m Agnostic and don’t like to be proselytized. Keep it in your own backyard please.
September 23, 2010 at 5:37 pm #704130
DPMembereyeswideopen: I agree with the arguments listed by the “God is Imaginary” Web site, but I doubt that any of those arguments would make a dent in your Catholic friend’s belief system. Consider that your friend has other, non-rational motivations for believing in Catholicism. Reasons like:
- He was raised Catholic; it’s part of his culture.
- He likes the rituals. They give him comfort.
- It’s something to belong to.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t talk religion with your friend — especially if he’s the one who starts it. But when you do, be prepared to learn this basic truth of human nature: Reason is one thing, Faith another.
September 23, 2010 at 6:13 pm #704131
dawsonctParticipantYou seem to be an evangelical agnostic Jiggers; if you REALLY didn’t care, you would have ignored the thread completely.
September 23, 2010 at 6:46 pm #704132
anonymeParticipanteyeswideopen: Thank you for having the courage to open this thread. In recent years I’ve become more open about my atheism, in part because of what I consider to be a frightening trend toward a kind of theistic nationalism in our country. Polls show that atheists are more hated, misunderstood, misrepresented – and therefore, largely closeted – than any ‘minority’ group in the U.S., including gays and Muslims.
The rationale in the following quote by Epicurus sums it up for me:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
September 23, 2010 at 7:30 pm #704133
blackwatchMemberSince the subject’s been broached, I believe that not only is God imaginary but religion as a whole is based on delusion. It’s a mechanism established to make people feel better about having no real concrete answers to our existence. And for all the ‘proof’ given to prove the existence of God, there is not one shred of actual concrete proof available that any God exists. There’s a lot of “I prayed real hard and my cancer got cured” but none that establishes beyond even a reasonable doubt that there is in fact a God.
I’m sorry if this challenges someones steadfast faith or if it sounds cold, but like the poster above it’s time to speak out against this craziness, it’s killing the world and it’s time we spoke up and woke up……
September 23, 2010 at 8:40 pm #704134
JanSParticipantmy take on things…whatever you believe or don’t believe, it’s yours and no one else’s. It’s private to you…no one needs for you to try and suck them into your beliefs, whatever they may be. Live a good life, no matter what you believe, but leave others to their own.
September 23, 2010 at 9:15 pm #704135
AndyParticipantBut, but Jan, eyeswideopen found a website. A WEBSITE! Finally, the world will be as one.
September 23, 2010 at 9:19 pm #704136
DPMemberYeah, but JanS, if you knew “The Truth,” wouldn’t you want to shout it from the rooftops? For better or worse, religion plays a huge role in people’s lives, right up there with race, gender, politics . . . It’s hard for them to shut up about.
As far as organized religion goes, that’s kind of like a pyramid scheme: it only works as long as it keeps expanding. But the same goes for atheism, when you think about it. Why can’t atheists just be content not to believe in God? Why do they have to go around suing local governments and school boards to remove all public references to God? That’s counterproductive.
September 23, 2010 at 11:53 pm #704137
AlkiKmacParticipantHow is posting and discussing our religious beliefs, or lack thereof, any different from posting and discussing politics & political issues? I don’t think religion should be off-limits and kept to ourselves if politics can be debated.
September 24, 2010 at 12:29 am #704138
JanSParticipantDP….my truth is different than your truth is different than her truth, is different than his truth. I would never expect anyone to believe what I do (or don’t). It’s mine…I own it. The problem I see is people who feel that their way is the only way, and yours be damned, and you’d better wake up. I once had a friend sit in my living room and tell me that if I wasn’t “born again”, I was going to go to hell. I showed her the door, and she was never invited into my home again. She had no idea what it was that I believed or didn’t believe, what was in my heart. She assumed that I needed “saving”, that I had to believe what she believed, that hers was the way. I resented that.
Discussions can be good, but someone will always insist that theirs is the only true right way, and mine is the wrong way..it ends discussion.
Andy…a website…wow…the interwebs can be scary at times, huh…
September 24, 2010 at 1:31 pm #704139
anonymeParticipantJanS, you’ve hit the nail on the head. If I’m understanding the collective gist of your posts, you think religion should be private. I agree, up to a point. However, as you point out, many Christians are anything BUT private; many even have a mandate from God to go out and harass people. Religion based PAC’s have had an unhealthy impact on our political system. To some degree, our country has already become a theocracy in some ways, in violation of the Constitutional separation of church and state. Most atheists would rather just ignore the whole religion thing. It’s only this not-so-insidious religious takeover of government and society that has prompted the demand for “equal time” in order to enforce the point that either all religion must be represented – or none. DP, I think that’s why it’s important that a stand be taken against government sponsored religious displays, and for that reason it is not counter-productive.
I found the website informative and useful. I’d be interested in hearing what was “scary” about it, aside from facts and rationality (which are scary to many Americans, especially believers). I agree with the premise that atheism must come out of the closet. Like any marginalized group, there are many more of us than statistics would indicate, although it is a fast growing demographic. The principles of free-thinking humanists could be of great benefit to all. Imagine…
September 24, 2010 at 3:45 pm #704140
DOCMemberJust watch a video or two of physicist Neil Degrasse Tyson talking about his reasons for being athiest. It’s pretty darn interesting. Also, that dude is SMART!
September 24, 2010 at 3:47 pm #704141
AndyParticipantI think Jan’s “scary” comment was a follow-up to my facetiousness about how nice it is we have the internet here to fix the people who disagree with us. Nevermind millenia of deeply developed values and positions on both sides of the spiritual question. Nevermind that Christianity and Atheism have their roots in an eternity of human nature. Al Gore’s internets are arrived to make our hapless friends whose beliefs we don’t much like finally agree with us! Salvation is now yours, at 10Mbps!
Unless you are on Clear Wire, then it’s all internet purgatory for you.
September 25, 2010 at 3:43 am #704142
thansenMemberWow…can we really talk about this and not get stoned to death? I joke, but this is one of those topics I never discuss because I too am a Atheist and never felt comfortable expressing it. When ever I did it would either go 2 ways…the person would try to “enlighten” me and it would never end so I would never see that person again, or the person would be so indignant and judgemental that I would never want to see that person again.
In either case, it was clear that the person was someone I didn’t wanted to know any way, but it became easier just to not ever talk about it.
Some times you just have to say out loud, I’m a progressive Democrat who doesn’t believe in God.
Ahhh…that felt good :)
September 27, 2010 at 4:27 am #704143
JoBParticipantfaith isn’t rational…
that’s why they call it faith:)
for me faith is not a subject for debate
but one for belief
September 27, 2010 at 2:12 pm #704144
anonymeParticipantthansen, congratulations! Breathe in the fresh air and celebrate your life – it’s the only one you’ve got. Who knows, someday you might even be able to speak the “L” word (liberal) without fear of stoning.
September 27, 2010 at 5:29 pm #704145
DPMemberanonyme: Are you serious? It’s conservatives who are more likely to get stoned in this town . . .
September 27, 2010 at 5:55 pm #704146
KenParticipantDP not stoned.
They are however quite likely to get run over on 35th if they keep crossing against the light at Holden on Sunday morning.
Quotes to entertain my fellow Atheist:
“Since theological propositions are scientifically meaningless, those of us of pragmatic disposition simply won’t buy such dubious merchandise. […] Maybe — remotely — there might be something in such promotions, as there might be something in the talking dogs and the stocks in Arabian tapioca mines that W.C. Fields once sold in his comedies, but we suspect that we recognize a con game in operation. At least, we want to hear the dog talk or see the tapioca ore before we buy into such deals.”
— Robert Anton Wilson
September 27, 2010 at 5:57 pm #704147
KenParticipant“It ain’t the parts of the Bible that I can’t understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand.”
— Mark Twain
September 27, 2010 at 5:59 pm #704148
KenParticipantThe Zen Master said to the hot dog vendor, “Make me one with everything?”
The hot dog vendor hands him one with everything.
The Zen master hands him a $20 bill and the vendor pockets it.
“What about my change?” asked the Zen master.
…The hot dog vendor says, “Change must come from within.”
September 27, 2010 at 6:04 pm #704149
KenParticipant“The way to make money is to start your own religion.” [L. Ron Hubbard, 1954]
September 27, 2010 at 6:23 pm #704150
KenParticipantWe must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children are smart.”
— Henry Mencken
September 27, 2010 at 8:20 pm #704151
JoBParticipantare we talking about organized religion
or about god?
while i gave up on one
i find that no matter how hard i try the other hasn’t given up on me.
that’s the thing about faith.
you either believe or you don’t
it’s a hedged bet either way isn’t it.
September 27, 2010 at 8:26 pm #704152
SarahScootParticipantJoB, you must be referring to how you can give up on God, but the Mormon missionaries will still show up at your door.
;-) (Kidding…)
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