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Garage/Mother In Law Rentals in Danger?

Started 4 years ago by mellaw6565
Latest reply from mellaw6565

mellaw6565
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I have a mother-in-law apartment that I have been renting out since I bought my house in Highland Park 1 1/2 years ago. I found out after I bought it that the Seattle City Council in 2006 made DADU\'s (Detached Accessory Dwelling Units)illegal within the city limits. (Supposedly because of a jerk in Fremont who complained that garage apartments are always rented to low-lifes who trash the neighborhoods). In any event, I have never informed any of my tenants that their occupancy is \"illegal\" as it would put me in jeopardy of paying the renter $2000 to move +penalties +the city makes you rip out essentials like bathrooms to make the places uninhabitable.

My problem is that this \"illegality\" makes my leases unenforceable in court since I\'m unable to obtain a C.O. on the place. I\'m afraid that one of these days a tenant will get wind of things and skip out owing a lot of money.

I feel that we provide a very nice home that is pet-friendly, clean, safe and affordable in the Delridge area where housing has become very scarce. We don\'t put up with drugs, gang-activity, loud noises, etc... and I think most of our neighbors don\'t even know we rent the place.

Is anyone else renting garage or MIL apartments in W. Seattle, and if so, how are you getting around the illegality issues so that you can get a C.O. and make your lease enforceable?

P.S. I talked to code enforcement about options but they kept insisting on knowing my address, which I wouldn\'t give them for fear they would take my apartment away - and as a teacher I need the income to pay my mortgage!! So any advice would be great!

Posted 4 years ago #
JimmyG
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I\'m pretty sure there is a way to go back and make your M-I-L unit legal, as long as it was a unit before the change in the laws governing them was passed. I seem to remember the City advertising that fact when they changed the law.

Why not look into that? I can\'t imagine you getting any kind of legal advice here on how to circumvent the law. And would your homeowner\'s insurance cover you if your \"tenant\" or one of their guests were to injure themselves in your unit and then they sued you?

It would all be too risky for conservative little me...good luck.

Posted 4 years ago #
Anonymous
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I don\'t think there is anything you CAN do, ever, to enforce your leases. They are null and void because they are illegal. There is no way to get around that.

I know it\'s not what you wanted to hear. I will definitely run this by my guy, who is an attorney, and get back to you.

Posted 4 years ago #
mellaw6565
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I\'m not looking for legal advice per se - I know there are MANY illegal rentals in the WS area with garage apartments and MIL\'s. I see them advertised all the time and have talked to a couple of people who are in the same boat as me.

I\'m not asking to circumvent the law either. I would like to make things legal but the previous owner did not have tenants for 6 months before he sold and he never had a C.O. on the place either.

So thanks for your conservative slant, but I\'m trying to solve an already existing issue and I know there are others like me in the same boat. I\'d like to hear from them.

The city told me that the only way I could make a DADU legal at this point is to pay for construction to \"attach\" it to the house. That\'s not going to happen on my teacher\'s salary. Has anyone else dealt with the City on this issue? What result did you have?

Posted 4 years ago #
Anonymous
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Okay. Good luck!

Posted 4 years ago #
JimmyG
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I don\'t know about WSB, but other forums I belong to prohibit any discussions of illegal activities, and that\'s what you\'re asking for is advice on how others have managed to get around the existing law.

Posted 4 years ago #
mellaw6565
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Thanks for your replies- I\'m hoping someone out there has already gone through this process and can fill me in on their experience.

Posted 4 years ago #
Sue
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mellaw, have you seen this link about establishing DADUs in Seattle? http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/publications/cam/cam116b.pdf

I don\'t know anything personally about them, but thought this might answer some of your questions.

Posted 4 years ago #
charlabob
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A while back some city councilpeople (maybe Rasmussen?) was trying to get together laws to make MILs and other alternative living arrangements legal, in part, as a way to make housing in Seattle more affordable.

Google let me down, so I couldn\'t find more specifics but if you contact Rasmussen\'s office he could let you know what\'s going on.

What we really need is a long-term solution, which will ameliorate the out-of-reach cost of Seattle housing and a short-term solution for folks like you. Rasmussen seems like a good source for both.

Good luck!

Posted 4 years ago #
mellaw6565
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Thanks Charlabob - I will check with his office.

Posted 4 years ago #
mellaw6565
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To JimmyG - I\'m new to this blog and you\'re apparently being an a*s. If you read my original post, the request was how to make these DADU\'s legal and the leases enforceable (which obviously have to be legal to be so). I\'m interested in any others that have experience in converting these illegal residences into legal ones. My post was clear. So learn how to read and don\'t assume - in this case it\'s making \"u\" an \"a*s\", not \"me\". Thanks for making me feel welcome - NOT!

Posted 4 years ago #
Anonymous
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I don\'t think JimmyG was being an \"ass\" at all. We have actually had posts on this forum related to \"getting by the legal system\". Which, as JimmyG pointed out, is not allowed on some forums.

Btw, I ran this by my guy (the attorney), which I know that you didn\'t care to hear about, but he basically said that you have no leg to stand on, legally. I think you already knew that.

He did, however, say that if you were to allow someone to stay in your guest house (or whatever it\'s called) for services (they mow your lawn, they do repairs in your house, etc.) then you could draft a contract (lease) that would be legal. If you could tie their residing there to services provided to you, it would be legal.

Posted 4 years ago #
GenHillOne
Member Profile

Wow, mellaw6565, this sounds familiar. In your original post though, you specicifically said that you wanted to know how others are \"getting around the illegality issues\" - you did add other details later, but the intent of your first post may not have been as clear as you thought.

Posted 4 years ago #
JimmyG
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mellaw6565, please accept my deepest apologies for not welcoming you with open arms. We here at WSB are a happy little \"family\" of sorts.

My apologies for misreading your sentence of \"how are you getting around the illegality issues\" that was in your OP. I totally missed that your question was HOW to make your unit legal--d\'oh on me!!

And I must also say I\'m so glad to know a person like you is out there teaching our children.

Posted 4 years ago #
MikeDady
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A few corrections are in order regarding Detached Accessory Dwelling Units and Accessory Dwelling Units. DADU\'s were illegal in ALL parts of the city of Seattle until the City Council passed legislation in late summer of 2006 allowing them to be legally constructed ONLY in the SE Neighborhood District of Seattle which is south of I-90 and East of I-5.

If any of the remaining 12 Neighborhood Districts desire to allow DADU\'s they will have to work with the City Council and Mayor\'s Office to make it happen.

Accessory Dwelling Unit\'s, commonly known as Mother-In-Laws or MIL\'s, have been legally allowed since the 1990\'s in all parts of the city but must be located within the confines of the main dwelling.

There are specific tenant access/egress, parking and building code requirements for both ADU\'s and DADU\'s and running outside those code\'s is IMO a fools game.

Posted 4 years ago #
cruiser
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Jimmy,

Call me nuts but does this person drink latte by any chance?

Posted 4 years ago #
JimmyG
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Cruiser, you crack me up!

Posted 4 years ago #
mellaw6565
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I heard that West Seattle Blog was a great site where people could share their experiences and information. There are a few responses above that fit that bill, but unfortunately there are some mean spirited busybodies like Cruiser and JimmyG who are obviously only on these forums to criticize and ridicule - even when they don\'t have any personal experience on the issue or any real information to offer. If that is the way this site is - I won\'t be back or recommend it to anyone else. How sad! I wish people would grow up and find something else to do with their life than comment on every post that goes on this site when they don\'t have anything substantive to offer.

I had a legitimate question about possible options for getting a LEGAL C.O on my property and was really interested in anyone who has worked with code enforcement and the other agencies. When I said \"getting around the illegality\" I meant building out or attaching the unit or some other type of solution that has worked so that a LEGAL C.O. can be issued. The rest of that sentence was very clear. I already know the place is illegal - I\'ve only had the property a year and I\'m trying to remedy the situation. I know there are others out there in the same situation. Those are the people I\'d like to hear from - people with real experience and information - not from idiots like Cruiser and JimmyG who have nothing useful to offer but are here to insult.

And BTW JimmyG - my students know how to behave better and show more respect when responding to others. They have been taught not to assume about the intentions or actions of others, to seek out more information or clarification when needed, and speak/think with respect for others. In fact, I showed them the exchange this morning in class and asked them about the sequence of responses and their first reaction (without my input) is that you are a jerk. They said they would be happy to give you some lessons on when to respond and when to keep your mouth shut when you don\'t know what you are talking about (a basic rule of debating).

I\'m a decorated teacher with several awards for excellence. That\'s the kind of teacher I am - obviously you didn\'t have that kind of teacher or you would behave better.

Posted 4 years ago #
Anonymous
Member Profile

Just from reading back through the thread, I think it is possible that you misinterpreted JimmyG\'s response. I think, generally, even if we have no experience in relation to a topic, we want to try and help.

I know (and I can only speak for myself) that I was willing to discuss your issue with my husband (who is an attorney, but is very smart in the sense of making things work out), but I felt that you disregarded my offer to help.

I haven\'t been a member of this forum very long myself and, although I did have some bumps in the road at the beginning, I have stuck with it and found that this sight is a wealth of information.

However, if you post a question, you do need to realize that everyone can respond. You cannot pick and choose who you want to hear from.

I welcome you to the forum and hope that you will stick around!

Posted 4 years ago #
Anonymous
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You\'re admitting you\'ve been doing something illegal for a year and don\'t want your tenants to get wind b/c it\'ll cost you. Then brag about the great lesson/example you\'re providing to your students based solely on the polite language you use?
Perhaps you should have figured out how to make it legal first, then rent it. Or purchased a property you could afford. I don\'t understand your selective ethics.

Posted 4 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

NewMember - I appreciate your responses and the advice from your atty. husband. I didn\'t disregard your offer but let you know that I already know that my place is illegal. I was really looking for someone who has confronted the illegality and somehow modified their structure or some other action that allows them to register it as a legal place to rent. If your husband has that type of information than I would be thrilled to hear it.

And no - I didn\'t misunderstand JimmyG\'s post. He point blank accused me of posting for an illegal activity and I take great offense to that. His exact words were \"other forums I belong to prohibit any discussions of illegal activities, and that\'s what you\'re asking for is advice on how others have managed to get around the existing law\". My original post was so far from that - it was clear I was looking for a way to make my place legal - maybe some loophole or technicality that would allow me to complete the process. He ASSUMED that what I was doing was trying to be illegal without fully reading my original post. Not once has he offered any real advice or indicated that he even has any experience or knowledge about this issue. So why doesn\'t he just butt out instead of tearing up someone\'s post and falsely accusing them of something? Geez - is that too much to ask for - legitimate responses to legitimate questions? It sounds like he has no filter between his brain and his mouth - in my world he would be designated \"special ed\" and given an IEP for behavior modification.

Thanks for the welcome and we\'ll see if you\'re call for a reversal of attitudes and insults on this site will change. If not, I won\'t be around long.

Posted 4 years ago #
JimmyG
Member Profile

I\'ll apologize again mallaw6565--I never meant by any of my comments to hurt you. I obviously misread the meaning of your OP. How many mea culpa\'s do you need?

You admit you are with full knowledge currently breaking the law, so my apologies stop at that point. JT has the perfect phrase above, \"selective ethics\".

Posted 4 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

mellaw6565...

i understand that you are in an uncomfortable position with your rental... one that a lot of other people are also in.

but.. you can\'t have it both ways.

When you choose to circumvent a law ... that process doesn\'t have the protection of the law.

It\'s too bad.. but those are the chances you understandably chose to take.

Everyone who rents out one of those units needs to be especially careful in their renters because of that. and.. need i say.. take special care to be considerate of good renters.

Jimmy G did no more than point that out... until you started with the name calling.

regardless of the name, did you really expect positive exchange to come out of calling anyone an a*s?

Most of the time... like in any community.. you get pretty much what you give...

I hope you have more positive things to give.. because you will surely get positive things back that way...

i look forward to your future posts.

Posted 4 years ago #
Gina
Member Profile

I wonder what the minimum is for a connection between buildings. A covered pathway? A tunnel? Two tin cans and a piece of string?

Posted 4 years ago #
Erik
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Two tin cans and a piece of string?
lol
We used to call that a phone.

Posted 4 years ago #
JanS
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Gina...good question...it may be something minimal, and be easy to comply with. I especially like the two tin cans and a piece of string. That would work for me :)

Posted 4 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

i suspect it\'s a bit more....

but probably not as impossible as it seems.

depending on the distance.. of course.

it sounds like mella... has already explored that option though.

Posted 4 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

To JT - no, I don\'t have selective ethics. I bought the place and rented out the back like the previous owner told me he had done in the past and then only in the last few months have I discovered the issue about DADU\'s being illegal. I haven\'t told my tenants (the only ones I\'ve had) because on my teacher\'s salary I can\'t afford the penalty and its possible that a tenant could see it as a \"windfall\" and decide to screw me over for no reason. I am a great landlord and I\'m not having any problems with my tenants - I just really want to do the right thing in an affordable way. That\'s so far from the definition of \"situational ethics\" - which BTW is the correct term.

Once again, if you have any personal experience with this problem, then I would love to hear about it. If not, it seems like the same 10 people or so are monopolizing ALL of the boards on this forum - no wonder no one else posts because the tone and tenor are so hostile and the responses off-topic. I have read back through the threads on many of these boards since I joined yesterday and it is REALLY NASTY on here. No wonder NewMember called for some civility. Geez - a person can\'t even get their questions answered without getting attacked by people who don\'t offer solutions, just criticism.

Oh - and to the poster that said \"why don\'t you buy something you can afford\" - give me a break. No one can afford Seattle - especially on a teacher\'s salary here. Even if I stay with the District 20 years - my top salary (and I have a Ph.D) would not reach the limits need to qualify for ANY mortgage here. So I did what many others are doing to survive here - I bought a place with rental capacity to supplement the mortgage payment so that I could have a place to retire someday. Trust me -it\'s not the Taj Mahal and needs a lot of work, but it\'s mine. As it is, I had to wait until my 40\'s to even break into the market. For those with silver spoons in their mouths - the Mayor is looking for great people to line the pockets of developers and kick the poor people out. I\'m sure he would be interested in your philosophy.

My apologies to JimmyG for comparing him to the a*s in the word assume. I can\'t think of another analogy that would fit better at this point and apparently he needs negative affirmation to make him smile when he wakes up.(see his post on \"reversing gears\") For me, someone who suffers from a serious disease, I smile each day because I wake up. Wish more people would do the same.

Enuff said - peace out. I will only respond to serious minded on-topic replies to this post in the future.

Posted 4 years ago #
Anonymous
Member Profile

That\'s all it takes? Someone else did it so I can too. I have no responsibility as a home owner to determine what is legal on my property? The last person in my house was a drug dealer. I suppose I could carry on the tradition but I really don\'t know where to start. I wonder if you skip reporting the income on your taxes as well, since that could trigger an inquiry.

You can correct my language skills all you want. You can tell me about your awards and degrees and how much you are adored by your students. You can ask for a pat on the back because you live each day with an illness, but you\'d have to get in line. There\'s at least 4 regular posters with serious illnesses, including myself. We all know it\'s expensive in Seattle. Many of us struggle, many of us rent because of that. I don\'t think anyone is forcing you to live in an expensive city however. And I don\'t think any of your rationalizations are going to turn you into a stand up guy/gal.

Posted 4 years ago #
WSMom
Member Profile

mellaw6565-

You\'re situation is rather unique so you may not find someone on this particular blog with the info you\'re looking for. Would you be interested in getting a recommendation for a real estate attorney? I personally don\'t know one, but I bet someone out there does. In my experience, often it saves money to go to an expert. Good luck.

PS: Read JoB\'s post again, she is very wise.

Posted 4 years ago #
MikeDady
Member Profile

mellaw6565, if you are interested in beginning the long slog of trying to allow the legal use of DADU\'s in the Delridge Neighborhood District, of which Highland Park where you live is a part of, you could start testing the waters at a Delridge Neighborhood District Council meeting. Contact Ron Angeles at the Department of Neighborhoods Office on Delridge Way to be placed on an upcoming meeting agenda.

FYI - The SE Neighborhood District Council had a very painful process on the road to approving DADU\'s in their part of the city.

Personally, I think there is a very good argument that can be made in favor of allowing DADU\'s throughout the entire city, but just that suggestion gets some people really wound up.

Posted 4 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

MikeDady - you restore my faith in this blog. That\'s the advice I\'m talking about. Thank you - I will contact Ron Angeles this week. Do you know - has this issue been brought up with the council before? What was the result and why the opposition?

I agree that people desperately need affordable housing in this area - we posted an ad last year when we first bought the place and had over 50 phone calls in the first hour, mostly from people around here that were getting kicked out of their apartments because of condo conversions. People all over this city are suffering right now at the lack of affordable housing and we are trying to be responsible and caring community members who have the ability to share a great space with someone else at a reasonable cost and also help ourselves weather the high cost of housing. By putting up my original post, I\'m really trying to find others in my situation and find out if there is a real solution to making these legal - including mine. That\'s all - no more. Thanks for your advice in the right direction - that\'s what I call community!

Posted 4 years ago #
MikeDady
Member Profile

I recall it being mentioned very briefly by a meeting attendee a year or so back, but there was no serious discussion of it at the Delridge District Council level.

When it was being vetted in SE Seattle and at the City Council level I recall the main points of contention being concerns of parking, loss of sunlight for abutting backyards, loss of tree canopy, potential troubled tenants, etc. A big snafu was how the proposal for SE Seattle DADU\'s came to be, and who was directing it. Some people in SE felt like once again, there neighborhood was being dumped on. Some of these concerns were/are legit, others were addressed by revisions that were put into the final DADU code.

Upon more thought, and in lieu of going straight to the District Council level, I would suggest you initially contact the staff at the Department of Planning and Development who were very involved in the crafting of the DADU code for SE Seattle. Ask these fellows what they think of a proposal for DADU\'s in the Delridge District:

Mike Podowski, Land Use Planner
mike.podowski@seattle.gov, (206) 386-1988

Dennis Meier, Senior Urban Design Planner
dennis.meier@seattle.gov, (206) 684-8270

You will want to become an expert on the subject of DADU\'s so spend time reading everything you can on the DPD website as well as watching past City Council and SE Seattle neighborhood meetings online via the Seattle Channel. You will need to be willing to organize support and be in it for the long haul. It won\'t be easy, and who knows if you will succeed. But if you do, you will have benefited not only yourself but lots of other people who are struggling to afford their mortgage or their rents.

Posted 4 years ago #
mellaw6565
Member Profile

Thanks again Mike - I always do my homework first and I\'m still hoping that there are others on this blog (other than the few \"dictators\" who answer every post whether they have something to add or not)that are having similar issues with their MIL or garage apartments and want to join this fight. I know they are out there and they are probably as nervous as I am to open up this issue for fear of the city coming down on them and kicking their good tenants out of affordable places. I think it is pretty ridiculous that Seattle\'s Mayor and City Council can condone the tearing down of most of the public housing and apartments in this area yet not provide ONE viable solution for the people being kicked out. Many of us are there to help, but because we don\'t have some type of \"attached\" building we can\'t rent, yet someone with a dirty basement can. Doesn\'t make sense to me and, in my opinion, is a perfect example of how this city government continues to favor the rich developers that line their pockets. I also find it ironic that if I lived 2 blocks farther south than I do I wouldn\'t even be having this discussion because I would live outside the city line. How silly is that?

I want to be part of this change so that all of us can benefit from providing affordable and clean housing to all members of our community, not just to those who can afford to buy. My tenants are young, hard working,blue-collar individuals who pay their rent on time and do not impact the neighborhood. In fact, I don\'t think most of my neighbors even know they are there. Why should they have to move way out from the city where they work to find affordable housing because my MIL is not \"attached\" to my main house?

I\'ll keep in touch and let you know how my efforts are proceeding with DPD and after I talk to the SE District Council and Rasmussen\'s office.
Thanks again for your great on-topic advice and willingness to help:)You are awesome!

Posted 4 years ago #

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