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Four LOKO BANNED! The West Seattle Connection

Started 1 year ago by HolyKow
Latest reply from Genesee Hill

HolyKow
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Four Loko is now banned by the Washington Liquor Board...Good move says I, but I wanted to be sure to remind all that we have a very personal and very outstanding case in West Seattle that has this vile poison firmly interwoven into the details of the crime.

Remember hate crime in May where the young man was held hostage and beaten severely for HOURS by people he claims were calling him racist names and blaming him for their ills in life? They were HIGH on FOUR LOKOOOOOO.....

hk

Link to WSB story ref'd above with the police report indicating the cop found the cans of poison at the scene of the crime and in the perps possession when he found them too:

http://westseattleblog.com/2010/06/followup-police-report-from-highland-park-teen-beating

Posted 1 year ago #
todd_
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I was happy to read on msn that it has been banned.

Posted 1 year ago #
biankat
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dumb - it's not the state's business. people can easily make caffeinated alcohol drinks elsewise. alcohol is alcohol. if they're gonna ban this, they may as well ban all alcoholic beverages.

Posted 1 year ago #
Genesee Hill
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I agree that it may be dumb, but it is the state's business. Effective November 18th you will no longer be able to buy it in Washington State retail establishments.

I'll just stick to my Old English 900 with a Vivarin chaser!

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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GH....now that's class ;-)

Posted 1 year ago #
biankat
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i'd better stock up! or at the very least, simply TRY this wonderful concoction. i think i'll look for a can on the way home...

Posted 1 year ago #
Genesee Hill
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biankat,

Yeah, now that you mention it, I think I will try some too!

I have a feeling that it may taste like good 'ol Mad Dog 20-20 with 8 tablespoons of sugar added!

Posted 1 year ago #
mpento
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Well back to the red bull and SoCo. You mean leaving the state in charge of selling liquor doesn't really control the sale of alcohol! Apparently the right to choose only applies to killing your children.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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biankat said:

people can easily make caffeinated alcohol drinks elsewise. alcohol is alcohol.

Perhaps . . . but I suspect there's something about drinking this stuff out of a can — a can that looks like an energy drink, I might add — that makes it a little more susceptible to abuse.

At the Governor's press conference today, she mentioned that each of the people who OD'd on Four-Loko at the CWU party in October claimed they'd only drunk one can of the stuff, when in fact they'd had several.

They just couldn't remember anything after the first one.

The reason this happens is because of the caffeine. According to Governor Gregoire, getting drunk on Four-Loko is like being drunk and wide awake at the same time. So in that sense, it's really not like other forms of alcohol.

biankat please keep us posted with the results of your experiment. But remember: don't go by the number of cans you think you had. Go by the number of empty cans the paramedics actually find at the scene.

– David

Posted 1 year ago #
Jacob
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What a stupid nanny state we live in.

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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genhill, when did they add 100 to olde english?

soco and redbull. four-loko. make you crazy and stupid. the drink in question actually has crazy in its name.

(me? i do a couple of rails after my alcohol/energy bombs - just to take the edge off.)

seriously, jacob? nanny state? the police have a hard enough time without having to chase around a bunch of hopped up/poisoned idiot juvenile delinquents just so someone can make a buck. talk about throwing gas on a fire...

biankat, as DP said, let us know how your bathtub meth drinks turn out.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jacob
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Absolutely being serious redblack. Not having access to these drinks isn't going to curb underage drinking in the slightest. They will just go back to mixing their own drinks, as they have always done.

The media has put so much ridiculous information out about this being a ban on four loko, but joose, sparks, and any other alcoholic beverage with caffeine will also be forced off the shelfs. The states primary excuses for banning these is that they are too potent, and marketed to kids.

We can still order vodka-redbulls and jagerbombs at any bar, so this has nothing to do with "poison" in our bodies.

I've also gotta call bullshit on the marketing to kids. Just because they don't taste like a typical ice beer or malt beverage, and have a bright colored can, doesn't mean they are being pushed on kids. What are they going to ban next? Mike's hard lemonade? Smirnoff flavored vodkas?

Responsible retailers and a little bit of education about the potency of these drinks could easily solve the problem (if there even is one). I don't need laws banning me from consuming products that can be used responsibly.

Posted 1 year ago #
DOC
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I hate this Nanny state for doing all those things like make up wear helmets and seatbelts. They take away my right to get high on crack while jaywalking and now they take away something that I KNOW I would have loved as a teenager, but realize now how stupid and horrible of a drink combination it is. What's next, they take away my right to drive 130MPH on the freeway with some sort of sign system? Nanny State indeed!

Posted 1 year ago #
Jacob
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I guess we should ban McDonalds too for marketing to kids and making them fat, right doc?

Posted 1 year ago #
datamuse
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Funny you should mention that, Jacob.

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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is there a way to use four-loko responsibly? that crap sounds like a recipe for irresponsibility and violence.

i don't really care about the debate about minors, either. i don't think adults should mix red bull and vodka. i've had friends who drink that - responsibly even. it... changes them.

guys i work with who drink full throttle or whatever get all twitchy and make me nervous. especially around power tools.

it ain't the alcohol part i disagree with. that's already banned in the workplace, and with good reason.

so is meth, and that's immediately what i think of when i'm working next to someone who's been chugging rock stars all morning.

when i imagine those guys drunk at the same time, i'm chris gregoire's biggest fan.

and i don't recall hearing accusations of seattle being a nanny-state when they banned malt liquor sales in and around pioneer square because street folks were getting loaded - cheaply and quickly - and harassing or assaulting "nice" people in drunken rages.

some things just shouldn't be mixed.

Posted 1 year ago #
HunterG
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DP, I must know the code you use to make the fancy "Speech Bubble".

Posted 1 year ago #
miws
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"DP, I must know the code you use to make the fancy "Speech Bubble".

Hunter, I ain't DP, but here it is:

[blockquote cite=]"DP, I must know the code you use to make the fancy "Speech Bubble".[/blockquote]

Just replace the flat brackets with the <pointy brackets>.

Mike

Posted 1 year ago #
BigPhil
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There are reasonable things for health and safety that the state ought to be able to control; seatbelts, mandatory licensing and insurance, etc. This isn't one of those things - it's a knee jerk reaction because a few loose cannons went crazy - people do that with just alcohol, too, but we don't ban this. Banning the product instead of punishing the perpetrators is the wrong way to go about things.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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BigPhil..

i can't disagree with you more.

making that product less accessible to kids is a matter of public safety.

banning it until it can be regulated.. as it is in other states.. is the only reasonable thing to do.

the alcohol content of that can varies greatly depending upon the state regulations where it is sold.

lowering the alcohol content..
or conversely.. selling it only through state liquor stores.. would make a huge difference.

truthfully..

i don't see why so many adults are yelling nanny state for a product they wouldn't choose given a better choice.

Posted 1 year ago #
austin
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Something about this that tickled my admittedly dark sense of humor is that after the Gov announced the ban there was a buying rush for this crap near Gonzaga. As if this is the only way the kids can figure out how to get drunk!

Posted 1 year ago #
BigPhil
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JoB - I don't understand. How is this more accessible to kids than alcohol or wine? WA law is admittedly new and strange to me, drawing the line at hard alcohol, but there is a difference. It's all only sold in liquor stores in CO.

Hard alcohol is 20-90% ABV, beer and wine are like 5-12%. Four Loko is only 12%, that's essentially the same as malt liquor or weak wine, which kids can get just as "easily."

Banning it affects adults too, and that's why I draw the line. If you want to make it less 'accessible' to children, then the concern is the same for beer and alcohol.

I likewise hate kneejerk reactions - there is nothing different about Four Loko than something like a rum and coke. The FDA wants to "investigate" whether alcohol and caffeine are "generally considered safe" and I'm going to say duh on this one. Mixing caffeine and alcohol has been commonplace for hundreds of years. As mentioned by many others above me, you can get the "Four Loko" affect by mixing wine with cola. Banning it outright does nothing to address the real problem, which is binge drinking. There are dozens of other energy+alcohol drinks out there and banning by name is foolish.

Posted 1 year ago #
BigPhil
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As an (unfortunately) apt example, I offer my own college experience. When I was young(er) and stupid(er) in college, our drink of choice was Boone's Farm (7-10% alcohol "wine" - http://www.ourkitchensink.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/boons.jpg) mixed with Vodka and chased with energy drinks. Worst hangovers I've ever had, stupidest things I've ever done, but no different than Four Loko. The problem was not Boone's Farm or Vodka or Energy drinks or Four Loko, it was a mindset where binge drinking was the norm, even the expectation.

Those dumb ass kids at CWU who went to the hospital after drinking Four Loko caused this but it is not the fault of the alcohol.

It's just like banning guns because they kill people. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. You can place reasonable *restrictions* on who can purchase it and when but banning it outright is declaring that something is so violently against common decency and civil society that we can't even trust citizens to make reasonable decisions about it - like HARD drugs. In order to justify something that terrible, you'd have to have some sort of evidence that four loko was empirically worse, like it contained ephedra or something. This is just caffeine + taurine + ethanol.

Posted 1 year ago #
biankat
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so i didn't get a chance to stop last night. strangely enough, i had a dream about my tasting. in the dream it was a mix between sangria and boonesfarm. but i digress...i just picked up several cans from my local 7-11. what a variety! and they had plenty in stock in case you want to get your drink-on. i'll give these a whirl tonight and report back on my findings. stay tuned!

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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Big Phil...

Yes, Four Loko has about the alcohol equivilent to malt liquor (beer) and some fortified wines...

but without the taste
and with a caffeine kicker so you can consume more alcohol without feeling impaired.

oh.. and all that for $2.00 to $2.50

as for comparing this drink to rum and coke..
DP once chided me that a drink is a drink..
so that rum and coke analogy is more like a triple shot rum and coke....

i couldn't find the caffeine content of Four LOKO to determine whether it contains a single, double or triple shot of coke... but i am guessing it is more like a triple than a single.

I am guessing there are a lot of people out there wondering where you can match that deal at a local bar?

Posted 1 year ago #
biankat
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ignore this - i was trying to insert a picture but it didn't work.

Posted 1 year ago #
Carson
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Phil,

You don't get it. Guns make it easier, much easier for people to kill each other. If gangs had to fight with baseball bats, well, they might be playing baseball. Kids can still mix redbull and vodka for the same effect as 4loco, and they will, but not as often

Posted 1 year ago #
BigPhil
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To carry the metaphor, I guess we should ban all guns then, because adults can't be trusted with them..? Like I said, reasonable restrictions on who can buy them where, when they can have them, and when they can be taken away for society's good. Things like being 21 to own a handgun instead of 18, requiring a permit to carry it concealed, preventing the sale to minors and permitting for hunting, preventing the sale of fully automatic (not to be confused with semi automatic) without permits, etc., etc.

The metaphor is apt, but a bit unfair to guns, really. Alcohol kills far more people than firearms anually.

In the same respect, we already require that someone be 21 before they can buy any alcohol at all. If you're afraid thats not being enforced enough than I agree but it really has nothing to do with Four Loko itself. Anything more than requiring an age gate is a bit intrusive, given that alcohol is just that. It doesn't require a prescription or a license. It's something only adults should enjoy, and if adults are voluntarily buying something and consuming it they are responsible for the results. There is no malicious marketing here, and it's not a drug in the same sense as other things regulated by the FDA.

Posted 1 year ago #
BigPhil
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JoB, depending on the variety, Four Loko varies from 143mg to 156mg of caffeine. To give you a bearing from the cans on my desk, a mountain dew is 54g, Rockstar is 80g. So yes, no doubt, it's a lot of caffeine. It's more than I could drink by itself in a whole day, without the alcohol. Anyone consuming 2 or 3 is being absolutely ridiculous, but again, it's their choice to be ridiculous and not the fault of the product. No one held them down and forced them to drink it.

Posted 1 year ago #
BigPhil
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And to be perfectly honest, I'd support banning it once it's actually been demonstrated to be a severe risk to health. But I don't like a state deciding unilaterally before the evidence is in that it's just too dangerous to let be out on the streets one minute longer. Another good explanation I found searching around for Four Loko:

"A Bomb – one ounce 80-proof vodka to one can red bull – gives you about 80 mg caffeine and 0.4 oz. alcohol. One can of Four Loko gives you 135 mg caffeine and 1.41 oz. alcohol (at 6% ABV) or 2.94 oz. alcohol (at 12.5% ABV).

Contrast that with Bud Light, which is 4.2% ABV or has 0.5 oz. alcohol per 12 oz. bottle. So one can of Four Loko is somewhere between three and six bud lights in alcohol content. Chug two of them and I’m not surprised people go the hospital.

What does six beers do to a healthy 160 lb. male? Gives you a BAC of 0.14, ie you’re drunk, and quickly.

What does six beers do to a healthy 120 lb. female? Gives you a BAC of 0.23, sending you into a stupor and possibly unconsciousness. And yes, thanks to Four Loko, you can have all of this in one single can for easy and rapid consumption."

Posted 1 year ago #
BigPhil
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Damnit, I want a Four Loko now..

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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big phil, i notice you failed to emphasize that one four-loko is equivalent to two or three vodka + red bulls. almost twice the alcohol; almost four times the "energy."

look. i'm a fan of alcohol. i admit it unabashedly. i, too, procured it illicitly and illegally when i was in high school and college.

the alcohol isn't the issue - until some drunken idjit takes the wheel.

it's the goldanged "energy drinks." wtf, people? that crap is like meth in a can. add alcohol, and you have a recipe for stupidity, irresponsibility, binge drinking, and violence.

(awesome demographic marketing, by the way.)

in what universe can somebody drink 2 - 3 vodka + red bulls in one serving and act responsibly?

and no, phil, i can't blame the product. that would be like blaming physics for nuclear holocaust.

but i can blame the freaking geniuses who make and market the shite.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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all i can say is that one of my grandkids drank what was reported to be just one and ended up very sick.

was it just one? who knows?
Their judgment.. and memory.. was apparently impaired enough from one that it is impossible to know.

this stuff gives high school and college partying a whole new face...

thankfully.. once was enough for that kid..
lesson learned.
but this story could so easily have turned out very differently.

oh.. and before you ask..
i do have grandkids of legal age
but this wasn't one of them.

that didn't keep four loco from being the beverage of choice :(

my kids didn't know about this stuff before.
they do now.

Posted 1 year ago #
AK
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like little kids, my husband and i had to try it. it's horrible. i don't know how one could get through one can. you'd have to pound it, which could explain a lot.

i don't care about the ban since i'm not a fan of the stuff, but it is a bit ridiculous. can we ban something more damaging, say cigarettes?

big phil - your college mixed drink of choice sounds nuts!

Posted 1 year ago #
BigPhil
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Damn you! Damn you all ! I must try a Four Loko now but I just can't figure out where I'd find it. I tried a 7-11 and didn't see any, neither did the local QFCs.

The next step will be trying to figure out when to drink it. I drink energy drinks at 8 am or not at all, because even a Rockstar at 90mg caffeine takes 4 hours to reduce to 45mg (half life). Otherwise I'll be wired all day (and night). I can't imagine drinking something with 143mg caffeine anytime but the earliest morning, so that it'd wear off by night. But I can't see getting wasted at 8am either. It'll have to be a weekend or something..

Posted 1 year ago #
austin
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I don't think bedtime is much of a consideration with this stuff.

Maybe try one of the beer marts near the UW.

Posted 1 year ago #
Genesee Hill
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I just bought one can of Blue Raspberry Four Loko at my favorite mini-mart on California and Andover. The proprietor, Loan, said she has quite a bit left, but that it is definitely selling. They also have watermelon flavor. There is some other brand, that she said is also banned, in green apple flavor.

Posted 1 year ago #
AK
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Big Phil - i wouldn't worry about staying awake. to continue my story about our four loko adventure, my husband finished the can, split 3 pitchers of beer with a friend who also consumed a can, vomitted out the car window on the way home (his car so haha), got dirty with some papa johns, and pasted out. yes we had a designated driver. his friend had no problem sleeping, either. i think you're good to go for the evening.

Posted 1 year ago #
JanS
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AK..that sounds like a stellar evening your hubby had there...ewwwww

Posted 1 year ago #
jissy
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AK: Thank you for my out loud chuckle of the day!

Now I can't wait to hear about BigPhil's upcoming adventure -- bottom's up!

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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Posted 1 year ago #
Cait
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This all seems so incredibly dumb to me when cigarettes and other alcoholic beverages are still on the market and just as easy to abuse. It seems really strange to make an example of not just one vice but an exact brand. I don't like Four Loko but so many things about this situation reek of poor judgement. Just seems like a really convenient way to cut down on teen drinking without having to actually enforce it properly. It's lazy. When I was a kid, it was my fault if I got sick from drinking too much, not the fault of the company that made it.

Posted 1 year ago #
hoffanimal
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Picking one product is ridiculous and counterproductive. Kids do and will make bad decisions regardless of this ban. Since when do we make public policy based on one highly publicized event. What if this had happened with "just beer" as the culprit? Here's a hint, it happens all the time; you just don't know about it.

Posted 1 year ago #
AK
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passed, not pasted. sorry guys.

Posted 1 year ago #
mpento
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I was just wondering if the four loko is already off the shelves or if some shops are keeping it on as long as possible? I thought it might be a good gift for our secret santa at work but it's not worth the trouble of hunting too much. Does anyone have a few suggestions where it might be still available? Thanks
(really it is just a token purchase You will not be assisting in my corruption or the corruption of any innocents or coworkers)

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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Has anyone heard from BigPhil? Four days ago, he was cruising the convenience stores, trying to make The Big Score.

Then, suddenly, the line went dead.

BigPhil?
Buddy? Are you out there?
C'mon, man. Talk to us!

How many fingers am I holding up?

Posted 1 year ago #
austin
Member Profile

I think Big Phil's ok, he was pointing out the rejuvenating effects of cigarettes and burritos during a long winter over in the low-light thread more recently than that.

I wonder if there's going to be a four loko black market after the ban goes into effect. Possible money making opportunity for weed dealers in the u district? I think so.

Thursday is the last day to (legally) buy four loko.

Posted 1 year ago #
Genesee Hill
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My favorite mini-mart on California and Andover is sold out, but Ronnies Market at the south end of Ambaum in Burien still had plenty yesterday...

Posted 1 year ago #

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