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Families with children at Nickelsville

Started 11 months ago by bertha
Latest reply from Kevin

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bertha
Member Profile

I have been following the discussion about whether families with children should be at Nickelsville. A number of people have insisted that emergency shelter and services are readily available to homeless families. Unfortunately, this couldn't be further from the truth. As the number of homeless families increases, the number of available beds declines. This article from the Seattle Times is a good description of the services available and the difficulty in obtaining them http://tinyurl.com/26x6uqg. Please note the ability to get into a shelter on short notice is almost nonexistent with a wait for families of days to even weeks. I agree living at NV is not optimal for ANY of the residents but until our priorities change it may be the BEST option.

Posted 11 months ago #
charlabob
Member Profile

Thank you -- it is so refreshing to find people still residing in, or visiting, the fact base world.

Posted 11 months ago #
linda
Member Profile

My thanks as well. NV is unique in taking in families and does indeed provide their best option. The Tent Cities won't take families and, as the article points out, many shelters which will accept women and children will not accept male children once they are above a set age (determined by the shelter). And if you are a mother and father and kids, well mom and the kids are welcome at the shelter for women and children but not dad. No way for the family to stay together easily in these circumstances since they also are relying the scarce resources clearly outlined in the article. NV is providing a much needed service by allowing families with children.

Posted 11 months ago #
2 Much Whine
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I agree that NV is not an optimal living situation but it seems ironic (I hope this is a proper use of the word) that there are plenty of families with adequate shelter that pack up the kids and tents and sleeping bags to head on out to a campground for rest and relaxation and peace and quiet. It's seen as a good thing that brings families together and builds character. So camping is a nice relaxing past time if you have the opportunity to come home, yet. . . . . staying in a tent is too stressful or too harsh of an environment for a cat or a snake or a family or a child if it is in NV? I realize it is not the same if you don't have the option to have a roof over your head but aren't there some similarities too? Is there nobody at NV that finds their situation to be somewhat of an adventure (perhaps an unwanted adventure but an adventure nonetheless)? Is everyone constantly in a state of aggitation and stress? Would a couple of days at NV while waiting for an alternative living situation traumatize families for the rest of their existence? I feel compassion for the NV residents and I in no way want to diminish the gravity of their current situation but I'm also reading more "whining" about how "terrible" NV is from the non-residents than I do from the residents. I happen to think that there are probably some families that might benefit from seeing how a community (both the Nickelsville community as well as the West Seattle community as a whole) can work together to help each other.

Posted 11 months ago #
wsmama3
Member Profile

My 15 years in social services is what I based my opinion on in the pervious thread. There are better suited social service providers and IMO part of being a good service provider is knowing your limitations and having the connections to make a better fit happen. Many, many long hours working in the field showed me that there are really good reasons for the unfair rules that sometimes split families up. I like to think I am not jaded from the work either - I am just very familiar with the struggle, the realities of the crappy situations, and the basic fact that kids should stay with their parents - IF IT'S SAFE.
I've visited NV and again, only my opinion, but I do not think they are a safe situation for families.

I know how long the waits are, I know there are rules and limits, and goodness knows I've been frustrated by all parts of the system - but the "fact based world" has shown me that this is a bad situation about to get worse and there are other options.
For example - not PC - but I'd much rather have my own kids at an emergency shelter than at NV (and I am well aware the trauma of separation and potential for harm at an emergency kids shelter). Just saying - this is a choice there are other options.

Posted 11 months ago #
flowerpetal
Member Profile

In addition to what Linda wrote above; many women with children are not permitted at shelters because they are fleeing a situation of domestic violence. Many shelters for families right now are not at undisclosed locations. The belief (right or wrong) is that a shelter puts the inquiring family and others at risk of violence from an abusive partner whom victims are fleeing from. It is extremely disheartening for a parent with child(ren) to be fleeing that situation and then be told they cannot stay at a shelter for homeless families.
And I should add that I have no idea and am not making presumptions about the woman and baby who entered NV yesterday. Just offering another reason why women (usually) and children may not be able to find shelter.

Posted 11 months ago #
DP
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1) Again, there are basic sanitation issues at NV. Not saying anything against the organizers or residents on that score; it's built on a swamp, after all. Other than the tents, it has little in common with a nice camping trip in the woods, 2 Much Whine's whimsical musings to the contrary.

2) There are several mentally ill people at NV. Not saying mentally ill people are evil (or that it's their fault) but again, this is not a good environment for a baby.

**************************************************************************************

Re: "No other options"

No. I still believe that's wrong.

Has the mother of the 11-month-old tried every avenue? Has she been turned away from all social service providers? Somehow I doubt it. Instead, what I think is happening is that word is getting out that NV is a cozy place for families and so it's acting as a magnet for people. If young children are allowed there, I will speak out against it.

I admit it's not easy to find shelter. But it's definitely possible. I just got off the line with someone at Providence Hospitality House, a protected women's shelter. Web site here:

http://www.providencehospitality.org/contact_us.html

She asked to speak to the mother in question and didn't want to give me details on their space availability, but it sounded promising. So try them. I've been there personally and can vouch for it.

There's also calling 211.
There are also friends and family.

*****************************************************************************************

bertha, please note: The kid in the "Times" article is 17 years old. Is that the same as an 11-month-old? No. A baby will take priority over all others seeking shelter, and that is as it should be.

–David Preston

Posted 11 months ago #
DP
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A la 2 Much Whine:

Would a couple of days at NV while waiting for an alternative living situation traumatize families for the rest of their existence?

The Magic 8 Ball says "No."

—On the other hand, would dangling a child over a balcony for a few seconds traumatize said child for the rest of its life? No again. But if the neighbors see you doing it, chances are you'll get a visit from the authorities. Even if your name's not Michael Jackson.

2 Much Whine redux:

. . . but I'm also reading more "whining" about how "terrible" NV is from the non-residents than I do from the residents.

Can't speak as to the snakes and puppies and what-not, but yes, as a matter of fact, I think it is "terrible" to bring an 11-month-old baby into NV.

And yes, as a matter of fact, I am a non-resident.

So call me terrible. Call me a whiner.

I can take it.

–David Preston

Posted 11 months ago #
2 Much Whine
Member Profile

Wow, I got my name in bold on 3 separate occasions! I should provide "whimsical musings" more often. I'm not calling any specific person anything. I just saw a certain "flavor" of the NV threads that hadn't been explored. I also neglected to recall (means forgot) that there are folks with mental health issues there. Wouldn't one find that in any cross section of society? I don't think it is exclusive to NV but it may be more obvious or pronounced there. I am all for shelters and I appreciate you, David, taking the time to explore options on bahalf of the mother with the baby. That's the best solution - get them the help they need. I like that idea.

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

i wish there was no need for children to be at Nickelsville...
but all those services we supposedly provide fail to prevent families from having to make the choice between living on the street or checking into Nickelsville.
Given those options, Nickelsville is definately preferable.

I believe another family was checking in tonight as i left the camp :(

Posted 11 months ago #
angelescrest
Member Profile

Want to educate yourself on homelessness and the toll it's taking on our local school districts? Unbelievable; yesterdays's KUOW Weekday:

http://kuow.org/specials/paramountduty.php

Did anyone else hear this?

Posted 11 months ago #
cclarue
Member Profile

Dp, as far as the sanitation issue goes there are many people that live among us in houses with walls and roofs who have sanitation issues and they have kids and babies living in those houses..all of us have different standards and ideas about what is ok and what is not ok. Basically these people are camping. Am I a bad mother because I took my 6 week old baby camping with the family? As far as the mentally I'll people go are you not trusting the parents to keep their kids safe @ nv? I can tell you that my own grandfather who everyone respected and thought was a great man molested my cousin for 6 years in their house. Just because things appear good does not make it so. Likewise because it appears bad to you does not make it so.

Posted 11 months ago #
DP
Member Profile

Again, there is no reason for young children or babies to be at Nickelsville. None.

But just let me follow up on an earlier point: One of my concerns here is that certain persons (whether knowingly or not) are encouraging women with children to come to NV when they otherwise would not. In addition to concluding that NV is an OK place for them to live, these women may also be influenced to be less aggressive about finding permanent housing than they otherwise would be, with the result that they won't find housing as soon. So instead of actually helping families with this policy, you are actually hurting them.

This is irresponsible and shows bad judgment, in spite of all the good intentions. It's foolishness in the name of kindness.

[See also "live Easter Bunnies for kids," "nation building in Afghanistan," etc.]

************************************************************************************

I just had a long chat with Elliot Day, who is the Mayor's Policy Analyst for Human Services and Technology — which of course covers Nickelsville.

Mr. Day is a thoughtful and intelligent person, and I would assume that he knows much more about homelessness in Seattle than any one of us. Mr. Day was clear with me that Nickelsville is NOT an acceptable place for a child. So I would say this is the City's official position: that it is not OK for a child to be at Nickelsville. (Surprise, surprise!)

Anyway, in accordance with that view, children will not be allowed at the "more formal" structure that is being envisioned for the NV site and will be officially sanctioned by the city. What will be there is some kind of permanent referral person/service that will direct women with children to the appropriate resources within the city.

In fact, this referral service is already available informally at Nickelsville. The City contracts with private companies for a service Mr. Day calls "city outreach." City outreach provides referrals and works with homeless people. And just as with other provider services, they give special priority attention to women with young children.

Mr. Day informed me that the authorities at Nickelsville DO have contact with city outreach already and that they SHOULD have contacted city outreach with this mother's situation immediately. But apparently they didn't. (!) Now why is that, do you suppose? Could it have anything to do with people on the Blog and elsewhere saying: "Families with kids: Come on over!! Make yourselves right at home. It's fun; it'll be like camping."

Interestingly, when someone speaks out against children at Nickelsville, the majority response is: "Hey, it was either this or the street."

Again, wrong. Just wrong.

Well anyway, the long and short is that the mother and child in question — who would already have been a priority for the City as I've said — is now a SUPER priority. Mr. Day assures me that city outreach is working with her even now to get her a place.

Before we hung up, Mr. Day reiterated that the "more formal" homeless structure of the future (whether that be in Nickelsville, at the old Sunny Jim site, or somewhere else) will be nicer and safer, and will even have built-in access to housing referral and job services.

But there will still be no children there.

And rightly so.

–David Preston

**************************************************************************************

Mr. Day's phone number is 386-1001 if you want to verify my quotes of him, or if you just want to give him an encouraging word.

Posted 11 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

We lack the will. For all you old farts out there, remember quonset huts? We have thousands of surplus shipping containers selling for 1200 bucks out there. About 400 square feet each. Some insulation, decking/flooring, they can be reasonably converted to temporary housing. It's not perfect. More than anything it allows for some permanence where there is an address, mail, computer hook-ups etc. It may resemble army barracks, but access can be controlled to pre-screened residents, sanitation provided for.

Posted 11 months ago #
charlabob
Member Profile

Preston, I will indeed call the gentleman tomorrow and see what criteria he has for listening to anonymous uninformed reports, bordering on slanderous, about the behavior of a kind and generous community.

I'm disappointed that "the community" seems to be suitably amused by your glib animation efforts that they are willing to ignore what you're doing.

Posted 11 months ago #
GenHillOne
Member Profile

Okay, I'm confused. How is DAVID's call an "anonymous uninformed report" when it has been clearly reported here that there are children/infants at NV? I didn't get the impression that Mr. Day formed an opinion about children at NV because of David's call, but that he/the city already held that opinion. AND, Mr. Day says they want to provide alternative options to those children...what exactly is wrong with that?

Posted 11 months ago #
LStephens
Member Profile

I'm confused too. Where was anonymous or slanderous? While you may not like DAVID's route, he does seem to be trying to help get a mother and a very young child out of NV and into safer conditions.

Posted 11 months ago #
miws
Member Profile

David, the mother with the baby informed me that she called the number of the agency you suggested and was told they are full.

When all of these agencies that are supposedly available to help are full, or they split up families, or even if continuing to take people in are overcrowded with people with head lice, or are unsafe, or the people are unable to stay there during the day and must pack up their belongings and leave the premises for the day, and have to hope they can get back in that night, what the hell are they supposed to do? In your mind they shouldn't be here at NV for even one night.

Are they supposed to park themselves under a bridge? Or go to the effing "jungle" which "houses" druggies and drunks and is plagued with crime and violence?

Note to dead horse: Sorry to keep beating you into oblivion with the following comment; Nickelsville is not the ideal place for babies. Nickelsville is not the ideal place for children of any age.
Nickelsville is not the ideal place for adults.
Nickelsville is not the ideal place for pets.

However, it's one hell of a lot better than the options mentioned above. And, ya know what? It may have saved my life. I wasn't necessarily suicidal, but was extremely depressed and scared, and was wondering if I'd be better off if I could just go to sleep and not wake up.

When I found out they were back in West Seattle, a great weight was lifted off of my shoulders, because I'd read enough about NV in the past to know they had structure and rules, and that it was about the safest place, under the circumstances.

Had they not been here, and I tried sleeping at Morgan Junction Park, or elsewhere, and gotten robbed and the crap beat out of me, or been booted out by SPD, it's very likely those dark thoughts would have come back, and I may have taken drastic measures.

Mike

Posted 11 months ago #
me on 28th Ave SW
Member Profile

It is certainly possible that the city will find room for this mother and young baby now that the situation is "out there" being discussed in a public forum. It is also possible that David bringing it to their attention will lead to a solution quicker than the mother's request alone (squeaky wheel and all). If it was my daughter and granddaughter, I would want more than a tent for them. But that goes for all the people in NV...

Posted 11 months ago #
Gina
Member Profile

Guess Mary and Joseph were lucky to get that stable back in the day.

Posted 11 months ago #
MTM
Member Profile

Hi all…I am one of those west Seattleites who enjoy the WSB forums but don’t normally participate. Not because I don’t want to but because I’m quite dyslexic and writing is not one of my favorite things to do.

However, this is an important subject. As a mother and grandmother, it absolutely breaks my heart to think that there are children living in tents in the polluted industrial area of south Seattle. My visceral reaction is to yell at the gods for letting babies suffer, to hate with every cell in my being all those wealthy creeps who refuse to change this which they could do simply by paying a few more percentage points in taxes (yes I said “hate”. I believe those selfish wealthy are deeply immoral and deserve scorn). But more than anything, I (like all of you) want to rescue those most vulnerable little Americans. We simply must do better than this.

I’ve followed the WSB forums long enough to know that the majority of contributors are good descent honest people (my neighbors, I’m proud to say) who only want the very best for the homeless people living in tents on our eastern edge. So…what to do? Do we provide their immediate needs? Of course, after all they are there now and if we don’t, we’re just like those selfish, wealthy creeps. Work with them to build a more permanent settlement? Lobby, perhaps fundraise for necessary infrastructure? Sure, but if we choose that route we must also be an active partner with the city, county and non-profits to protect the littlest and most vulnerable of the homeless and recognize that NV is not currently a suitable environment for children and every effort must be made to find a more appropriate alternative for them. Even calling the mayor’s office if need be. Or maybe we should march down I-5 to yell about putting tax rates back to 1990’s levels to fund the desperate needs of our fellow citizens for gawd’s sake.

Sorry…. this really pisses me off and also sorry if this offends anyone. The point is, this is a very emotional issue and it will take lots of varying points of view (long term and short term) to solve it. Thanks for listening… love ya all…

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

DP..

Where on earth do you get the idea that anyone here is encouraging women to take their children and settle in at Nickelsville's summer camp?

As MTM so eleoquently put it.. that toxic waste dump at the bottom of our hill is no fit habitation for people of any age.

It is so unfit that they are not allowed to disturb the soil with so much as a tent peg.

That said.. they are there because they ran out of other options.

Today i took one of the residents of Nickelsville to meet his wife at Harbourview Hospital's Emergency room..

and right there.. next to the hospital.. under the freeway on James street someone had set up housekeeping in one of the old pink Nickelsville tents...

Would that be a better location for the mothers and children?

Because Nickelsville is who the other shelters call when they are full and need a bed for someone.

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

if you really want to help...
the camp is right there.
walk in.
ask what you can do to help.

today.. one of your neighbors.. not me
discovered a pile of fresh woodchips somewhere set out for the taking...
they loaded into their truck
took it to Nickelsville..
and the residents spread it over the main walkway..

today.. walking into Nickelsville smells like walking along a fresh forest path.

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

DP..
January 2011 count of homeless people living on the streets in Seattle included 32 children...

that number did not include those in shelters..
or even those living in Nickelsville...

http://www.homelessinfo.org/one_night_count/2011_results.php

Posted 11 months ago #
justcuz
Member Profile

"It is so unfit that they are not allowed to disturb the soil with so much as a tent peg." - so how are they installing swingsets, volleyball/badmitten nets, croquet wickets, etc.?

Posted 11 months ago #
Jiggers
Member Profile

There's a lot more sleeping in their cars or vans with kids that you don't see. What's the hours you are regulated to in leaving or coming into the camp? Say like if you work and can't get back until late at night

Posted 11 months ago #
tanyar23
Member Profile

I believe that if the mother is unable to secure a shelter space, she could contact a police officer to secure a motel voucher.
In securing space at a shelter, it's absolutely critical that the parent call the shelter everyday. If the parent is fleeing from a domestic violence situation, the parent may be able to find help even more quickly. If she/he is getting public assistance, she should let his/her case manager know to see if they have any resources to refer them too.

Posted 11 months ago #
miws
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Typing by flashlight, so just a quick response to Jiggers: 24/7 access, two people always on security, one of them always at desk.

Mike

Posted 11 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

GHO and LStephens:

Don't jump on Charlabob. To quote from DP's post :One of my concerns here is that certain persons (whether knowingly or not) are encouraging women with children to come to NV when they otherwise would not."

and how would he know this?

I've always hated it when someone will allude to someone else doing something, , but just be very vague...it's like posting something so others just go "Oh, no. we can't be having that"..gets people riled up. We don't need that here.

I hope DP follows through on this, that he cntinues to take an interest in this woman and her baby, and not think that all is hunkydory now that he's talked to the cityabout this woman.

Posted 11 months ago #
GenHillOne
Member Profile

Don't get me wrong, Jan, it was just the "anonymous uninformed report" piece I was disagreeing with because I didn't think DP's post/actions fit the definition. And I think me on 28th has the right idea - even if we're cynical and believe the city isn't doing enough to help the homeless, maybe drawing attention to this will bring about some changes. Maybe the changes won't solve everything, but a step in the right direction would be good.

Posted 11 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

I'm not sure , but didn't miws say in a previous thread that CPS is contacted every time a family shows up at NV? Is that not part of the "city outreach"? I'm asking...not assuming..

this per DP's quote "Mr. Day informed me that the authorities at Nickelsville DO have contact with city outreach already and that they SHOULD have contacted city outreach with this mother's situation immediately. But apparently they didn't. (!) Now why is that, do you suppose? Could it have anything to do with people on the Blog and elsewhere saying: "Families with kids: Come on over!! Make yourselves right at home. It's fun; it'll be like camping."

I'm also thinking that perhaps Mr. E. Day needs to get in touch with some of the agencies that might (the operable word) be able to help this woman on a short term. Talking with my social worker this evening, it seems that there's a disconnect, as to what is actually available, as opposed to what people think is available. I'm not saying that Mr. Day is uninformed, I'm just thinkin' that his glasses are a tad rosy. As I say often, I could be blowin' smoke, and be totally wrong.

Posted 11 months ago #
nighthawk
Member Profile

I keep seeing references to the "jungle" on the various NV threads. Can someone please explain what the Jungle is? Is it living in the woods in general? A specific area of Seattle?

Thanks!

Posted 11 months ago #
chrisma
Member Profile

The Jungle is a green belt in the Beacon Hill neighborhood where a "community" of homeless people live. It has a reputation of being a pretty bad place rife with alcohol, drugs, violence, sexual assault, and other crime (which is perhaps more sensationalism than fact, but I can't speak from personal experience).

http://midbeaconhill.blogspot.com/2007/12/jungle.html

Posted 11 months ago #
westseattledood
Member Profile

That link is to a blog post which is 3 1/2 years old, fyi.

I googled "The Jungle" "Beacon Hill". Many recent, presumably accurate, but definitely current results come up. Here's but one, though there are many others to read if you google:

http://bit.ly/jNqVFb

Posted 11 months ago #
chrisma
Member Profile

Well, I didn't spend much time on it; just looked like a useful overview, with a little history.

Here's the google search I did.

Posted 11 months ago #
chrisma
Member Profile

Here's a recent KOMO article. Doesn't sound like it's gotten much better since 2007.

And actually, other than the spate of stories about how Seattle is planning to clean up "the jungle" starting in about April of this year, I'm not seeing very many current articles.

Posted 11 months ago #
miws
Member Profile

Yes, Jan is correct. I stated in the topic drift portion of the "Baby Needs" thread that CPS is contacted.

Mike

Posted 11 months ago #
hammerhead
Member Profile

The Jungle is NOTHING like NV. These people CHOOSE to be homeless. I am personally starting to refer the ppl at NV as displaced, they want work to get out of there. The jungle does not, yes it is ridden with drug, and lots of bad other stuff. I work with the city who cleans up after them or kicks them out and I get the usually the cats.

Sorry to go off track but some one asked and I have personally dealt with this place.

Posted 11 months ago #
munchkin22
Member Profile

#23
Just briefly, 2 residents of NV helped load that truck with the forest fresh chips and when we returned with them 2 others unloaded the entire pile, probably a yard and a half. These guys are hard working and ambitious. Sorry for continuing the hijack, just sayin'......

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

justcuz...

tents are on pallets so that tents can be secured to the pallet.. not the ground. the shade structure is anchored by concrete blocks.

i haven't seen a vollyball net
or badmitton
or croquet set up there.
i don't know if there is a safe place to do so.
i hope so.
i do know that the berms are supposed to be safe soil...

the ground is going to be leveled under the swingset by adding gravel/bark to level..
not by digging into the soil...

any idea where we can get gravel or bark or some other filler donated?

Posted 11 months ago #
Gina
Member Profile

MIWS gave me the grand tour of NV, and I didn't recognize anyone. A lot of the chronic homeless come through where I work, and the seasonaly homeless. (people that come to Seattle and work fishing ships.) The group of people at NV are a different crowd.

C.P.S. is a state run agency, and we all know how well city, county and state agencies communicate with each other.

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

oh yes.
We would all choose to live in a tent in an open field at the intersection of an industrial area and freeways without running water or sanitation or even a tent we could call our own if we had a choice.

9 of those shiftless lazy people were at my house yesterday working for me.

They worked for 6 hours with only a half hour lunch break without stopping for the ubiquitous coffee break.

i am afraid 6 hours was my limit.
they would have worked longer.
in fact..
a couple of them continued to work while waiting for their rides.
my car won't carry that many people in one trip :(

At the end of the day..
my husband who is not generally in favor of my hiring outside help..
was astounded at the amount of work that got done in the house, the yard and the garage.

yes..you can now open my garage door without fearing that a single thing will fall out.

They not only helped me reorganize the garage..
they helped me sort through everything that had been shoved in that door since my move nearly 3 years ago and carted away everything that didn't go into the garbage or back into the garage.

This is a job i would literally never have been able to do on my own even if i had hired laborers to do the heavy lifting.
They kept me focused on the task at hand long after i would have given up for the day...

the couple cleaning my house and the crew working in the yard listened carefully to my instructions and supervised themselves.
They did an incredible job.

and no..
they didn't take a single thing that was not given to them..

it's amazing to me how stuff that was once useful but ends up sitting in your garage can be such a treasure to people who literally have nothing.

the greatest treasures?
Air mattresses collected for camping trips that never happened and plastic storage boxes with drawers... instant bedroom luxury to people living in tents.

One of my workers didn't finish the day :(

He got a call that his wife was headed to the emergency room at Harborview in an ambulance with a suspected heart attack.
On the way to the emergency room he apologized to me for taking my time and not finishing his work day.
He apologized again later when in spite of my writing my cell phone number on his hand for a ride home ... he and his wife took the bus back to camp.
they didn't want to take my time...

she is scheduled for the kind of tests that would frighten most of later this week...
and she rode a bus to the only home she has because they didn't want to take my time.

Over the last few weeks i have had somewhere in the neighborhood of dozen different workers from Nickelsville at my home.

I will admit that my workers come pre-selected.
They want to work and they are vouched for by security before they come to my home.

but.. aside from one exceptional college girl i hired last year who i am pretty sure could match them.. they have been the most productive workers i have every hired from any source.

You might wonder what they spend their money on...
I have had requests to stop on the way back to the camp for tobacco, food, work boots ... and yesterday.. tents.

the luxury the two guys who stayed late and worked without pay while they waited for a ride home most desired was a tent of their own with enough room to sit upright in and keep their belongings dry and work boots so they would qualify for work from day labor sources.

I am not saying that every resident of Nickelsville is as industrious as those i have employed...

but lumping them together as "those" shiftless lazy people who "choose" to live on the streets is a huge fallacy.

Posted 11 months ago #
Jiggers
Member Profile

I would be more worried about that ground they sleep on than anything. It could be contaminated big time!

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

jiggers...

it is contaminated.
how big time? i don't know.
mostly they sleep in tents on pallets.. not on the ground.

and thanks to their own labor and that of volunteers and donors..
they walk more and more on a layer of wood chips than on the ground.

more wood chips would be a very good thing.

Posted 11 months ago #
munchkin22
Member Profile

We witnessed firsthand JoB's workers at her house yesterday. It was like a beehive swarming the place. The difference in the appearance in just the short time we were there was great. They were dynamos. If someone were to organize them into a day labor force.........

Posted 11 months ago #
munchkin22
Member Profile

#43: we were told that the ground was capped with clean soil I believe 18" deep, so at least there's a reduced risk of contamination if the ground remains undisturbed.
I agree that more chips would be ideal. If a company could deliver their daily chippings direct to NV it would make it so much easier.

Posted 11 months ago #
miws
Member Profile

*Gives JoB big , wet, sloppy, kiss*

I witnessed the couple that received the, seriously, large, luxurious air mattress literally beaming as they were carrying it back to their tent after using the powered air pump that was plugged into the generator to fill it.

They had been laying on the hard, rocky ground--no pallet, for nearly six weeks.

Mike

Posted 11 months ago #
LStephens
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@ JanS and Charla,
Replying to post #29, it wasn't my intent at all to to sound like I was jumping on Charla's comment in a negative way. Like GenHillOne, the "anonymous uninformed report" piece I was questioning was because I didn't think DP's post or actions fit the definition of anonymous or uninformed. I was truly confused because David Preston has clearly identified himself and he noted that he had visited NV twice to "inform" himself firsthand. Not defending either position, but it seems like Mr. Preston is making time and efforts (visiting NV and calling City offices)towards helping the NV residents. Surely there are plenty of different ways to help and just as surely we may not like all the ways others have chosen to help. I was simply confused. No offense intended in any way!

The inability to add tone or inflection to internet or written communications often seems to create misinterpretations between both the writer and the reader.

My apologies to JanS and Charla for the unintended "jumping on" offense. Applause to the WSB community for helping to make a difficult situation better.

Posted 11 months ago #
JoB
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Lstephens...

last night..
exhausted beyond belief
and more than a little cranky
i read Hammerhead's latest post in this topic and mistakenly thought that she was saying that the people in Nickelsville choose homelessness as a way of life.

i responded to what i thought she had said....
thankfully without naming her.

boy would i have had egg on my face.
that wasn't what she said at all.

you are right.. it is too easy to misinterpret posts here.. especially in the heat of the moment.

DP is right.
No parent should have to take their children to Nickelsville.
There should be a more than adequate safety net that should prevent making that choice.

but there is a huge difference between what any bureaucracy is designed to do and how it actually delivers...
and the homeless people fall through what is in actuality a very large crack.

The truth is that all this budget cutting is effecting every service we think is there to count on...
including those designed to provide services to children.

Posted 11 months ago #
charlabob
Member Profile

L Stephens etc., thank you! I must say I just got back to this thread and was surprised at the discussion -- and, I have to say, pleased. I think most of us (if not all) believe that no one should have to be begging for housing or living in tents with their kids (or alone). I think this is one of the few substantive discussions I've seen here.

Anonymous was (duh) the wrong word -- I was trying to say, Preston, who doesn't really know the people involved, talked to some bureaucrat for three hours and found the bureaucrat agreeing with him. So I used "anonymous" incorrectly, when I meant to say, not adequately informed.

I'm surprised at these discussions (and at the snake/cat/kitten discussions) because the similarity of views of the folks (including moi) who are arguing is spectacular. All debate is about approach, rather than basic concepts and we manage to engage in heated debates.

The people (if they exist) who think the homeless should just freeze to death in the swamp are quiet. The people, like me, who really think the homeless should be living in the wasted "foreclosed" houses with floors and roofs and walls, manage to keep out mouths shut too -- usually.

Thanks to everyone who's making me proud to live in West Seattle (I'm sure that was your goal, righti? :-)

Posted 11 months ago #