WSB Forum » Politics

(83 posts)

Elections are just around the corner


  1. It won't be long before we'll find the August election ballots in our mail boxes.

    To all my friends here on the blog who have been unhappy with what we see as timidity on the part of Obama and the other Democrats we elected two years ago, consider this.

    Obama just got the bank regulation bill sent to his desk, the other major accomplishments the media speaks of are the stimulus package and health care reform. If you see things the way I do, the thing wrong with all these legislative accomplishments is they don't go far enough. The stimulus was too much for business and not enough for the unemployed we all know. Health care was too much for insurance companies and other leaches on the system and not enough care for people in my neighborhood. Banking reform isn't tough enough.

    If you're looking for a populist response that will get policies that are closer to what we want, it isn't to sit on the sidelines and "teach them a lesson". The only lesson to be leaned by that approach is that the Tea Party has enough nuts in it to swing elections.

    Get out there and support the Democrats, they haven't been at all perfect, but the alternative is bigger give aways to business and increasingly serious environmental disasters in coal mines, oil rigs and nuclear waste facilities. The party of no will make us all poorer and sicker, while pampering their plutocrat protectors.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  2. Hear, hear!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  3. Please, oh PLEASE get the Democrats to move farther to the Left. Say it LOUD and say it PROUD. Rooftops, television, radio, MSDNC, you name it - get the message OUT THERE!

    I'll spin signs, knock on doors, stand on the overpass or harass people at Safeway - just let me know where I can have the biggest impact.

    Hope and Change is working people - it's an easy sell!

    Hope.And.Change!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  4. I couldn't agree more Smitty. The change has been fantastic and for once, people have hope! I am still undecided which Tea Bagger is the least electable vs Patty Murray so I know who to vote for in the primary.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  5. thansen
    Member Profile

    thansen

    RIGHT ON! My username on blogs/websites is "proudseattledemocrat". I sometimes feel very alone "out there" being a progressive, considering all the media talks about are Teabaggers and Palin and Bachman. So it's posts like this that make me feel strong and hopeful about our party. We need to support our Democratic reps because the alternative is way toooo scary

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  6. That's the beauty of it, Carson. Doesn't matter which Tea Bagger (not that there is anything wrong with that, Jerry) gets the nod, mommy is a "shoe in" - get it?

    Those racist, homophobic(Tea Bagging!), faux news luvin' hillbillies are toast, I tell you.

    If I were in charge, I would put Pelosi, Reid and the Prez on television every, single day(and not just on MSNBC, CNN and NPR either!). The (true)Left would actually GAIN seats this November if they would only listen to Smitty!

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  7. democrats didn't do enough for the unemployed in the stimulus package...

    republicans blocked the extension of unemployment benefits.

    more would be good..
    but...
    something is better than nothing.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  8. charlabob
    Member Profile

    charlabob

    Obama is, in large part, doing what he told us he would do. Many of us on the left thought we saw him winking.

    He also said, "Hold my feet to the fire -- make me do the right thing." I don't think we're doing anywhere near enough to provide counter-pressure from the liberal side. Every time the teabaggers and R leadership in congress claim he is a leftist or a socialist, we seem to say, "ooooh, we'd better keep quiet." :-)

    If you still think it won't matter, check out who will be chair of the house (or senate) committee you care most about if the R's take over. Start with speaker of the house, "Oil spill is an ant" john boehner and senate majority leader Mitch "Say no to everything," McConnell.

    Yeah, Obama will still have his veto power. But the stuff he'll have to veto means absolutely nothing positive will get done.

    BTW, I think there's no doubt that Rossi will be stronger against Murray. Ultimately, even most of the right wing people in this state aren't "bat sh*t crazy" and they'll stay home if they get a complete nut as an alternative. Carson, I'd be interested in your counterpoint :-)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  9. i am hoping that either republican candidate..
    swarmy or bat shit
    will bring out the democratic vote..

    we just can't afford either Rossi or his tea bagger alternative.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  10. This stupid bit of nonsense is all over TV now:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37K5Q3yTlH0

    Murray will be red meat for the same kind of people who had Harry Reid looking like he'd lose, until recently.

    The Repugs may get smarter and nominate someone who is a little less obviously coo coo than Sharron Angle in Nevada. Actully, Rossi fits that bill.

    I think he's the one to worry about, remember the 2004 Governors race. He almost won that one because his TV persona made him sound pretty reasonable. I hope Patty doesn't go into a stupor after the primary like Gregoire did.

    Scott Brown's victory in MA should keep Democrats antsy at all times.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  11. c@lbob....I want to scream every time that comes on the tube....and accompany it by putting my fist in that woman's mouth....grrrr.....

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  12. ok ok .. so i need to send her money...

    too many are uninformed enough enough to believe that ad without looking at the alternatives...

    those tennis shoes would be replaced by size 12 boots...

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  13. Question.

    Is it "tea-bagger", "tea bagger" or "teabagger"?**

    I've seen it all three ways.

    Regardless, they are all just a bunch of uneducated (I don't care what Pew says!), gun-toting, NASCAR loving, god-fearing racists, anyway!

    Don't just tack to your left while sailing in Maine Mr. President, tack left so the team can win in November!

    Left, lefter and leftiest!

    **(not that there is anything wrong with that, Jerry)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  14. I agree with many of you who are critical of Obama and the Democrats from a Left perspective. However, I'm curious as to why you think something will be different after the elections in November. If the Democrats are assured that you'll vote for them no matter what, then why should they move to the left?

    Maybe you think they'll have an epiphany and suddenly start delivering on their promises out of gratitude to the voters. But remember: after this election, lukewarm Dems like Patty Murray will still have their corporate patrons to please, just like before. In fact, if anything they will be more beholden than ever, after having spent lots of corporate PAC money on close races.) It's just the nature of the game.

    So anyway, that's my question to you all: What do you think will be different after November, and why?

     

    I think charlabob is onto something when she (he?) talks about holding Obama's feet to the fire. But I don't see many specific calls for action along those lines, unless it's calls to ring doorbells for Democrats—which I don't equate with holding anybody's feet to the fire. ;-)

     

    Finally, I want to talk about this tendency we lefties have to demonize Republicans. Maybe we do that in order to convince ourselves that our vote means more than it actually does. "I'm saving the world from evil by voting Democrat!" the thinking seems to go.

    Well, in the first place, that's just too simplistic. But it in the second place, it bugs me a little, because it implies that Republicans are somehow inherently bad, or wrong—and I don't care for that implication. Although I am not a Republican myself, I believe that there are many Republican/conservative values are worth emulating.

    Moreover, I believe that there are many fine Republican people living right here in West Seattle. As a community forum, this should be THEIR forum, too, but honestly, how likely are we to ever hear a peep from them when we constantly refer to them as "racists," "homophobes," "nutwings," etc.?

    —David Preston

     

    P.S. Nobody has to remind me that I've been among the worst offenders on this Blog when it comes to "attitude," but I'm trying hard to change.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  15. charlabob
    Member Profile

    charlabob

    She = Spouse of c@lbob -- you can only imagine our pillow talk :-)

    Sadly David, the current crop of R's, imnho, are demons and that's probably a slander of demons. I actually remember the age of reasonable R's-- Rockefeller, Weld, Ed Brooke, g-d help me, Nixon (who started the EPA), Reagan (who started the "no nukes" movement.)

    People like Bob Bennett and Arlen Spector, who are hardly progressive voices, are run out of the party to accommodate Palin and Angle and Rubio and ... the list is endless.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  16. can anyone honestly say they like the idea of Boehner (give him a drink, a cig, and a Dean Martin song to sing - lol) and McConnell running things in Congress? That Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann and their common nonsense would be good for this country? That the Barton's of the world are doing things in your/our best interest? I truly feel that all Repubs are NOT homophobes, racists, demons. But, come on... many are not exactly mainstream these days.

    I do try to remember that the "politicians" are on both sides. That should be scary enough. I know I wouldn't want to be called that.

    DP, we have labels that pigeonhole us. ..Democrat, leftie,liberal, progressive, Repub, rightwing wing nut, ultra conservative - and there's a whole realm of people in between that a label doesn't cover. I think many of us/them are in that category.

    When those that are in the community can come here and talk their views, not the Faux News, the Rush Beck Hannity stuff, the fringe things like birth certificates, etc. ad nauseum, I think many of us on the other side would like to have intelligent discussion of the issues that truly are important today.

    Oh, yeah...and one last thing...we all need to listen, to remain open to change, to not just repeat, repeat, repeat what we hear, but be truly willing to reevaluate how we feel about things if someone else with opposing views makes a good argument for something. I'm sometimes very tired of the "I'm right, you're wrong", name call, name call, nah nah nah, kinda thing.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  17. DP...

    you have a vested interest in not seeing the difference...

    apparently 8 years of destruction of govt agencies, war and financial plunder weren't enough for you?

    we have had too many years of simplifying politics through name calling while those in power traded away much of what makes this nation a democracy for what ????

    Yes, i think there is a difference between science based evidence and rumor, innuendo and self serving biblical interpretation ...

    don't you?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  18. It is time that those "good" Republicans to stand aside and become team players, because there is no "I" in team but there are three "u"s in Shut the Fu** Up.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  19. Bob...love you :)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  20. There are two i's and two e's in imbeciles. Hey, there is only one i and two e's in Progressive.

    Shall I play your word games and name calling or take the high road? Both.

    DP made a valid point but the progressive new world order thought cannot or will not grasp it because if you do, it only proves some validity to the right.

    Point 1. President Obama has kept 26% of his campaign promises. Broken 13%, and has either not taken action, stalled or in process with the remaining 68%.

    Point 2. Courtesy, or lack there of. Teabagger is a derogatory term if used politically. Not to be rude, but if you want to walk the walk, I will let you get real close to the boyz. Lick and a promise! Or should I say . . you suck? For being SO tolerant you show your depravity and tasteless... I mean intolerant world view. Yes Virginia, there are some standards left but if the party of PC gets their way, those will be gone too.

    Point 3. Although ugly, Obama and the Democratic Congress have made some major policy changes. (Snowe, Collins, Browne and Specter are not friends of the conservative). RINO's are going to be history. You are seeing a change in the Republican Party because it is a reaction to your party acting like they are on a NASCAR track and they keep turning left. Ask yourselves... are Harry Reid and Chris Dodd like Warren Magnuson and Scoop Jackson? They worked for the people and not beyond the constitution. I could vote for those guys of days past. Nice Budget you passed ... er what ... no budget, just filing an extension of policies. Must be an election year.

    Point 4. Obama is attacked for his policies not the color of his skin. Bringing out the race card is so. . . Democratic. (That Robert Byrd, what a bastion of tolerance)! If you read non revisionist history you will see support for individual liberty and freedom, not collective salvation from the right. I do not deny there is racism. There is. From all groups. No group is exempt. I do so wish there wasn't such a thing. I find it interesting that Glenn Beck is promoting people of color in our history and he is called a racist. Please, we must all fight this together.

    Point 5. Look at the polls. The Congress had low ratings back in 2008 and now are even lower. (To be fair, the Republicans looked worse in the polls back then). Even after the 2008 election, the Democrats in Congress have barely passed legislation, and are supporting policies that are killing their re-elections. Even Mr. Obama is now polling worse than any serious Republican contender. Blue Dogs are getting attacked like the RINO's are. And with such slim margins, Al Francken, and the Democratic party should send Thank You cards to the convicts and dead people who elected him.

    Point 6. Consumer confidence. You don't make promises about recovery when in a recession. 8% unemployment? I wish. And stop lying about job creation. We, the employed and unemployed know the difference. It is a resilient economy, but even the Socialists in Europe are saying. STOP SPENDING SO MUCH!!!!
    I won't even talk about the partisan BS in the new Financial Reform bill. Oh wait, I will. Don't lend money to people who can't pay the loan back. Don't get in the way of real reform. Say what you will about W, he warned us 17 times about financial reform. The congress didn't listen. A pox on both parties for that. By the way. Capitalism did not cause this crisis. People abusing Capitalism caused this crisis. Some are even starting to suggest that the spoiled baby boomers who were not like mama and daddy brought this on. Interesting theory but only that for now.

    Point 7. By the way, those weren't Tea Party activists rioting at the G20. I am not saying they were liberals either, but do you not understand the difference between real extremists and pseudo extreme? Some of you really want to believe Republicans and Tea Partiers are Anarchists.

    Point 8. War. Gitmo still open . . . which really pisses off far left and some not so left. . . because it is needed. Oh did you hear the one about the Algerian terrorists who didn't want to be sent back home because they were afraid of what their government might do? Or did you hear about the guys released and over 30% have gone back to there terrorist organizations.
    Mr. Obama demonized the struggle in Iraq, (Despot dead, Democracy in place, Only 10% of oil interests are American I guess it wasn't totally a war for oil.") but is now seeing how difficult withdrawal from Afghanistan really is. He is truly in a tough spot. It's easy to be a candidate but much tougher to be the leader of the free world.

    Point 9. Oil in the Gulf Of Mexico. I know what I said earlier but . . . 87 days to hopefully fix the worst environmental disaster in the US. If Bush had been President the chorus would have been much louder. I wish I could go on vacation during a crisis? Sound familiar? Even Mayor Nickels couldn't survive a piddly snow disaster. Everyone loses on this.

    No wonder people are looking at different candidates. The President was voted in because people wanted (and rightly so) change. What they are getting is not what they voted for (on both sides).

    I will say this, the last time a Democrat President and a Republican Congress worked together, we had a budget surplus.
    Gibbs said it, a lot of seats are in play. What is more interesting is that most likely the new senators and congressmen that are voted in will be more conservative than ever before and opposing them will be the most progressive President since either FDR or Woodrow Wilson. Even the Democratic Governors are pleading with the President to stay out of immigration.

    I DO agree with an assessment from a prior post. He is hurting his party by not being more proactive in some areas or too conservative in others.

    Actually, I do have a thought. If the dems lose both houses, and there is growth in the economy after 2010, he just might be elected to a second term.

    Oh, the fur will fly, won't it?!!? It's gonna get nasty.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  21. Point 1
    LOL.. HMC Rich..
    where did you get those percentages?
    as far as i can tell Obama has done as close to exactly what he said he would do as he could.

    point 2
    If calling the tea party teabaggers is derogatory.. then they shouldn't have labeled themselves teabaggers... look it up.. it's their term.

    Point 3
    nascar track? LOL.. so what was it during the republican roller coaster ride? center? NOT!
    the legislation passed by the democrats only looks left because the past ride was so far right. if you look back you will find republican sponsorship for similar bills:( Not so progressive:(

    Point 4
    Honey.. you weren't paying attention to the crowd Sarah whipped up on her campaign tours. The ugly N word wasn't being uttered by democrats.

    Point 5..
    Al Franken was elected by convicts and dead people? really? again.. you need to take a closer look at those elections dude.
    Polling numbers are down because the economy sucks for everyone but the rich.

    Point 6
    Consumer confidence is down because the banks are sitting on all that cash we gave them instead of loaning it like they were supposed to.. to small businesses and responsible consumers.
    we couldn't even get a house loan these days without a full 20% down.. and we have a really good credit score and an impeccable credit history... and we won't talk about small businesses. The small business owners i know have private capitalization or they wouldn't be in business.
    how far are we down that list???? oh yeah

    point 7
    So the implication is that democrats were rioting at the G20???? Those were anarchists.. and there is a difference.
    As for the tendency to violence.. all one has to do is point to the string of bombed abortion clinics and dead doctors to confirm the idea that violence is endemic anyplace there are extremists.
    What is true about the tea party is that it is fed on anger... I have listened to that con artist Glen Beck. Not right or left .. right or wrong.. and left is wrong:(

    point 8...
    first.. and this is easy.. Obama wasn't trying to get out of Afghanistan. another one of those things he said he would do is increase troop strength there..
    Gitmo is taking longer to close than hoped.. and many of those incarcerated don't want to be sent home... it is a thorny problem at best.
    i honestly don't know if new prisoners have been sent there.. i haven't read about it if they have ... that would be the real indication of need.
    you really have to stop throwing those unsupported percentages around.. 30% ??? ... only on faux news where truth is just another illusion. if someone says it.. it's so...

    Point 9
    Fixed? where on earth did you get that idea? Oh yeah.. faux news:(
    the oil well may or may not have been capped.. it may or may not hold... the relief wells that will ensure that have not been drilled.
    and that doesn't even begin to address the oil that is in the gulf.. not in small contained areas.. but dancing in the gulf stream around the gulf coast to the tip of florida and up the western seaboard.
    Fixed? they haven't even begun to fix this mess.

    You are right that this election is going to get nasty... but god help us all if we get what you want.

    Balancing power between the presidency and Congress is not the answer. This is not the same economic climate that produced the surpluses of the Clinton Administration. Add to this that this country is at war and war is very very expensive.

    But i have to hand it to you.. you get the twisted logic award.
    Republicans in power nearly bankrupted the nation and all we have to do is put them back in charge of congress to balance things out.
    Yeah.. like that will work.
    You are in complete denial as to who and what created this mess in the first place.

    You gotta get out more. There is a huge difference between fact based arguments and the opportunistic innuendo of common ignorance.

    Didn't your momma teach you that no matter how many times a lie is told.. and no matter how many of your friends believe it.. it is still a lie.

    the press may label Obama the most progressive president since FDR or Woodrow Wilson...
    but the label doesn't make it so:(
    i only wish it did.

    btw.. i purposefully left out the immigration reform thing .. you want to talk about ugly...

    WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS DUDE?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  22. Thanks Jo, it gets so tiresome refuting the talking points from the great echo chamber of misinformation. I'm glad you are here to plow through them.

    What I find most laughable in the screed from HMC Rich is the continuing theme that we must be chagrined at being intolerant.

    I'm here to tell ya, Rich. I am intolerant. The Rebublicans have exposed themselves as complete mouth pieces for corporate interests. I have no illusion, at all, that Republicans will ever do anything that will benefit me.

    This weird libertarianism that has infected the minds of so many people has to be defeated and exposed as the sham it is.

    Corporations are sociopathic entities designed to make the vast majority of individuals poor by stealing the common resources of all nations and turning them into, to a very large extent, unnecessary consumer toys and fuels that are destroying the atmosphere.

    People who have net worth under $1 million are nuts to vote for Republicans, period. I can't stand them, they are helping in the destruction of all that I hold dear.

    Clear?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  23. catlbob..

    i am not sure a million is a big enough cushion these days :(

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  24. I won't be crying the blues for anyone with $1 million, not counting a house. I can also see why they'd be all for not having any of it taxed.

    What I can't see is helping them achieve their fondest desires by voting for the party of no.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  25. Immigratration: Interesting, the Federal Charter is much more intrusive. Look it up. Have you read the Arizona law? People (the illegal aliens) are being used as slaves. Murder and kidnapping? Drug running. (Do the users of illegal drugs say anything about this?) Illegal, means future Democratic voters. Fine, but eventually they will become Republicans. Well some anyway.

    By the way, are you in concurrence with the Presidential Directive allowing US citizens who are abroad, can be assassinated? Bush and Obama. But only Bush is bad!!!! Where is habeus corpus for our citizens but it is OK for illegal combatants? I think it is wrong for both administrations but Holder and crew are really out there. Have you kissed a New Black Panther recently? NAACP can say what they want. I am not a person of color. Well Gray maybe.

    Tell me oh Mighty Progressives. Why did reconstruction not go better? Why did the Democratic party not want to deal with slavery? Why did Woodrow Wilson segregate just about everything when he became President. Why have you started ignoring the Constitution and feel it is too limiting. Because,,,, Progressives can be radicals and don't want to be questioned. Why do I bring this history up? Because under the appearance of open minded discourse is a very ugly core that uses deception and misinformation to exact change.

    Republicans grasp that we live in a Capitalistic society. Democrats used to. Corporate donations go to the party who has the upper hand... From The Economist ...http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/06/wall_street_donations_congress

    Or how about Hedge Fund Campaign contributions...http://biggovernment.com/publius/2010/05/04/hedge-funds-donate-big-to-democrats-get-exemption-from-bank-bill/

    DO NOT PLAY THE DEMOCRATS ARE PURE GAME!

    1. Percentages are from Ideapalooza. It is one persons view and I agree with it. Obama campaign promises. Send me your link.
    2. Some did call themselves that before they learned the urban dictionary definition. Left leaning media and I believe the President cheapened themselves by using the term. Ms Garafolo certainly uses it.
    3. No, Unread Healthcare Bill passed. 1/6th of economy. Financial Reform with more beauraeucratic control than ever but no fix for Fannie or Freddie. (Gotta keep the sacred cow clear). Pork laden budget in 2009 but not one in 2010 because of all the deficit spending. (Yes, the RINOs and Bush spent too much and that is why there is one party rule for now.)
    Such Transparancy.
    Major legislation like the civil rights act had some bi-partisanship, but not lately. Deficit tripling. Obama, Reid and Pelosi have got to take some ownership.
    4. The race card. Democratic institutional guilt from the past raises its ugly head. How about that Robert Byrd? How about Harry Reid's numerous racist or essentially derogatory statements about OBAMA. Yes, racism exists. All parties, not just one. People died to free blacks from slavery. They deserve some respect as do the poor souls who suffer under racism's ugly umbrella. By the way. There are some racist Tea Partiers. There are some racists who are not white too. Many Tea Party idiots who are racist are getting booted thankfully. Still, nobody has claimed the hundred thousand dollars actually documenting those "incidents".
    5. Hey Dudette, Franken was the recipient of voter fraud. http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2010/07/20/Al-Franken-May-Have-Won-His-Senate-Seat-Through-Voter-Fraud
    6. Hey, we agree.
    7. I did not say that. Just making a point that Tea Party people don't fight the police and burn cars. Anarchists certainly do. I did not say liberals were doing that, but I too can come up many acts of violence or faked violence by the left. Bombed abortion clinics are wrong. Those killers are not normal. But about 40 million and counting is so, so sad too, but legal.
    8. If Obama wasn't planning on getting out of Afghanistan why did he tell Karzai that? http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/07/04/afghanistan.withdrawal.deadline/index.html
    If he is such a hawk, why did he not give McChrystal all 40,000 instead of 30,000. Obama goes against Sun Tzu on that one. Bad mistake. Personally, I believe we need to draw down troop numbers and eventually get NATO out. We will see what Patreaus says. He is good at what he does.
    9. ..."hopefully fix... should have been rewritten. I know it is tenuous. Your pre-occupation with invalidating Fox News is hilarious. Even MSNBC says and reports news I believe. Oh I forgot ... rules for radicals. Plenty of Right Wing Opinion to be had. No doubt about it. At least they cover 'the news better than the networks. The press's job is to be a watchdog of the government, not its friend. Your Democracy Now at least is not lock stock barrel with Gibbs. The Rolling Stone article that got McChrystal to resign was fine. Old Stephanopoulous should not be on White House weekly conference calls.

    No, live in your "superior" world that only Democrats are correct. When I say something, a quick google search will usually, but not always, corroborate my statements.

    November hurry up. We need some balance back in DC. Maybe they can try to balance the budget. This out of control spending is bankrupting us and has to stop.

    Babyboomers start retiring in a few months. There will not be enough money down the road to pay for all of us unless something almost miraculous happens. Our children are getting the shaft.

    I would like to work together on some of this but if you are going to be obstinate, I will have to point out the errors of your ways.

    See ya

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  26. rich.. rich.. rich..

    i don't know what you are drinking or smoking but you are having a much better time writing this stuff than i am refuting it...

    immigration ??? common sense would tell you that if you want to stop employers from abusing illegal immigrants as slaves.. you crack down on the employers.. not the immigrants.

    today.. in Arizona.. you can be stopped anywhere anytime for looking or sounding like you might not be a citizen.. and even if you were born in this country you must produce papers that satisfy the officer who stopped you.

    do you speak a second language? speaking it is enough to get you stopped in Arizona.

    but hey.. that law should stand because hearts are in the right place in arizona.. they are looking out for those poor illegals... right?

    if you thought you could be in any way impacted by that law you would be screaming bloody murder.. so you should think about this...

    if an American can legally be required to show papers in Arizona.. what is to stop the same thing here?

    teabaggers labeled themselves teabaggers.. but i can't call them that because i should know better? LOL.. keeping up with shifting sands of urban terminology is a full time task for anyone. listening in to teen conversations on facebook has been very enlightening to me. I am pretty sure somewhere out there is an urban in joke for my name... and my grandkids probably giggle every time they hear it... but that isn't going to make me demand they call me something else.

    I don't buy the underdog story. Members of the tea party movement are referred to as teabaggers because that's what they labeled themselves.

    Any insinuations or innuendos are simply that.. insinuations or innuendos... mostly generated by the teabaggers themselves.. HEY.. you can't call me that!

    get a grip.

    so the teabaggers are cleaning up their image? couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys and gals:)

    trouble is that i listen to glen beck often enough to know that throwing a white sheet over their heads doesn't change a thing.

    There is a huge difference between mentioning race and inciting racial violence...

    Obama is half black... not a racial slur but a statement of fact... and a political reality acknowledged by his competitors.

    Obama is also half white.. from one of those radical mothers of my generation ;)

    which half do you think i voted for? That black guilt you conjur or solidarity for the son of a sister?

    there are a lot of ways to look at the race perspective .. but not too many ways to look at race prejudice.

    anger is the abiding principle of the Tea Party movement... embodied by your buddy glen... who judges everyone and everything by the shifting perspective of self interest.. glen's self interest.. not yours.

    take a good look at those bills you mention.. the actual bills... packed with enough corporate graft to make even a republican proud... the stock prices of the companies involved skyrocketed overnight...

    not my idea of left leaning legislation... but certainly in Glen's best interest to distract the members of his pet party from the fact that they are promoting the same corporate interests that created the situation that has them so hopping mad by labeling anything that might help them leftist...

    by all means..spend on war. spend to clean up corporate messes. charge it to the future.. just don't tax that income you wish you were making.

    it's cool to be a fat cat.. and maybe if you play your cards right you can be one too... nice fantasy that PR machine has brought to those gullible enough to buy it... just like that work at home business he was stumping last time i signed on.. or the gold parties that net you just about what you can get at a pawn shop for the same item. That's a con man you are listening to.

    speaking of cons.. lets' move on to the statement that Franken won his seat due to voter fraud. I read your link but i didn't see the sentence that stated that those 341 illegal voters in Hennepin county actually voted for Al Franken... just that they voted.

    sounds to me like the conservatives in minnesota are about to pull a florida style voter purge in their state and are using this election as an excuse. if i lived there i would be double checking my voter registration about now... someone whose name resembles mine somehow might have done something once that might make someone think my voter registration should be purged.

    this, by the way, from the state that didn't purge me from it's voter rolls for two years.. in spite of repeated notification.

    read the fine print.. what is not said is often more illuminating than what is...

    the fine print in the link on Obama and Afghansitan is the date. During his campaign... Obama was very clear that he would be putting more troops into Afghanistan .. just as he is now equally clear that they won't stay there forever.

    The issue isn't whether Obama is a hawk or not? the issue is whether we should be spending money we don't have on a war that is unlikely to end... or two wars.. or three.. or twenty .. or however many we are currently fighting.

    it is so FAUX news of you to label every other network left:) I keep telling you.. if you want to know what the left has to say.. watch programs like Democracy Now where the left has a voice... not mainstream news. It's obvious from your continued reiteration of that particular leftist falsehood that you have not yet done so.

    perhaps you are being too quick with your google searches... i find that even with wiki i learn a lot more if i follow the links to the references at the bottom of the article and then follow their links as well.

    we can agree on one thing. the out of control spending is bankrupting us.. but we don't agree at all on the cause...

    i question the wisdom of gyping baby boomers out of their social security after gyping them out of their pensions as a cost saving measure.. after all.. we will still have to pay to feed, clothe, house and provide medical treatment for the indigent... and baby boomers will become indigent eventually without any income.

    the alternate solution is to create more jobs so that people can work and pay taxes so we can afford to keep the promises made to our citizens..

    radical concept.. right?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  27. We need more conservatives on this forum, folks. Otherwise it's going to get pretty boring in here. (Talk about echo chambers . . . sheesh!)

    OK, West Seattle is strongly liberal, so the political balance is always gonna be tilted in that direction. Great! Still, we need a hard core of politicos who can represent the OTHER SIDE side in a principled way, otherwise, what the hell are we even doing here?

    I feel some personal (if not political) sympathy for HMCRich, because he's been carrying the ball pretty much on his own, along with maybe one or two other random folks. Frankly, if I were him, I would be doing the same thing he's doing: a little arguing and a lot of baiting.

    To get other principled conservatives (like HMCRich) on this site, we have to be as respectful as possible with them. Of course we're going to refute their positions—as forcefully as we can. But we've got to stick to the high road while doing that. Otherwise, they'll stay in their corner, and we'll stay in ours, and nothing will get done.

    (Rich, have you got a couple friends you could send over here? We need polite, thoughtful right-wing commentators who either come from the West Seattle area or are interested in West Seattle issues.)

    In the meantime, can we all start talking a bit more about the present and future, and less about the past? As a liberal, I personally don't have many happy memories of the Bush era, and I'm trying to leave that behind . . .

    Thanks for reading.

    –David

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  28. DP..

    i can personally vouch for HMC Rich as a delightfully entertaining human being and a caring person...

    there are other conservatives of various stripes that post here on the forum... I can't vouch for them as i haven't met them yet.. but i am willing to bet they are nice guys and gals too.

    oh.. and that goes for libs too ;->

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  29. HMCRich...

    if you are counting on this
    "the last time a Democrat President and a Republican Congress worked together, we had a budget surplus"
    to restore employment.. you need to think again

    this is why it won't work this time...

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/UEMPMED

    the idiots nearly crashed not only our economy but that of the entire world.

    we will have to spend to pull out of this.. and it is clear that war spending is not creating enough jobs to pull us out this time.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  30. I just heard a pretty illustrative reason for why tolerating "good" conservatives is a bad idea.

    The US Chamber of Commerce has spent over $150 M is anti-Obama activities since he took office. That's $3M a week. Obama has gotten some things accomplised, to his credit, but even those wins have been pilloried and minimized by the Chamber. And the losses, or wins for the Chamber; no energy bill, no card check, no cap and trade, are demoralizing to the Democratic base.

    Couple that with Glen Beck, Sean Hannity and the other loons of the right wing echo chamber, and what you have is a lot of people calling Obama a socialist, white hating, non-American who are completely fired up and ready to vote pitted against timid centrist Democrats looking for where the center is.

    Take a look at Ben Nelson, Blanch Lincoln, Evan Bayh and Mary Landrieu if you want to know the center in that equation.

    Worrying about the feelings of those who think that array of folks are, at best, too liberal is a fool's errand, IMHO.

    If you are looking for righties, I and direct you a site right here in Seattle -- Sound Politics. Go on over there to reason with them, then tell us of the welcoming you receive.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  31. c@lbob..

    Good people are not always reasonable..
    that doesn't make them bad people
    just unreasonable

    and on that you will get no argument from me...
    current republican strategy is not based on reason.. it's based on emotion... and not one of the better emotions at that... hate and anger may win them an election but it pales as a long term strategy.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  32. Good people don't write off whole classifications of people as unworthy based on their immigration statuses, racial backgrounds, or economic classes.

    Good people don't make up lies, or repeat them, about the known scientific realities of global climate change and evolution.

    Good people don't rally behind corporations that murder their workers.

    Thus my attitude about "good" "conservatives" - they are neither, IMHO.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  33. wow, Bob. Could you maybe just give us a straightforward answer as to how you really feel, instead of this wishy washy stuff? ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  34. charlabob
    Member Profile

    charlabob

    Bob is a little jaded -- he grew up in California and they didn't have rational conservatives. He didn't believe in William Weld or Ed Brooke until I showed him their speeches. Often he still thinks I made them up. :-)

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  35. hehehe...glad to see I'm not the only one up late on here...

    jaded? never !

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  36. Awww JoB, you know I love you (and hubby).

    Oh Bob, why such sour grapes? How about Obama's poll numbers. They stink. Unfortunately for the opposition, he has been successful in certain policies, and lately to the chagrin of the Democratic congressmen and senators who are being thrown under the bus in this next election by the administration. Your party is in big trouble with the Independents these days.

    Thanks DP. The problem is, most of the good Republicans moved out of the area or are not willing to speak up. But there are a few. I will see what I can do.

    Vote for who you think will do the best job.

    You know, Glenn Beck does a Friday segment about the founders of our country. It is interesting because he brings the discussion to the forefront. The two specials on forgotten people of color in our history was a bit eye opening.

    You can bash him if you want. He doesn't care.
    He does not want your government to be involved in every aspect of your life. Is that so bad?

    Ask yourself. How much government is too much? Too many times Republicans are painted as wanting anarchy or Greedy God Dictating Rulers. Not true but some of you do not want to believe that. For every loony on the left there is a loony on the right.

    You see, in the last year I have seen a few things which have dismayed me as a citizen.

    First, Bills passed in Congress which are over 2,000 pages long which our representatives did not read but voted on. They are called bi=partisan at times but they are not.

    I saw a stimulus package with pork oozing out and more bills with more pork.

    I see no budget coming from congress. Americans are not stupid. When the federal government is borrowing 41 cents on every dollar, you know there is a big problem. Yes it was bad when W did it. Why is it good now?

    We will be forced to buy insurance from a "private" company and the federal government will fine me if I do not! That is unconstitutional.

    I see a Wall Street Financial Bill passed which allows the Federal Government to terminate a business if it even thinks it is having hardship. Isn't that Tyranny? When governments control major industries, doesn't that ring of socialism a bit, at worst fascism. With all of the unelected czars making policy, I see abuses coming on. Yes, Bush had czars too. Let's get rid of these unelected policy makers.

    I see bills coming up on reeling in the internet and the ability of people to speak out.

    I see Mrs. Pelosi's "most ethical congress" not being such and the word transparency is non existent. Mr. Rangel is on the hot seat for now. 11 percent approval rating for congress!!! Not good.

    We witnessed a horrific Natural Disaster which pitted Federal vs State vs Private Industry. I saw the Federal Government drag its feet concerning action that Congress had passed in the 90's to react to horrific oil spills. I saw corporate arrogance and finger pointing. I also saw birds covered in oil which died.

    I see the Federal Government and the State of Arizona clashing. No, we don't want people wrongly accused or accosted. But it is the Presidents and Federal Governments job to protect the citizens of the United States. Obama and all since Reagan have not done a good job. What part of illegal do people not understand. Yes, arrest the people who employ illegals. Start the card check system for guest aliens. Do something instead of fighting it out in court.

    I see a press which is being shown to collude with the ideology of the President or his cabinet. For the latest curiosity Check out JournOlist. Some guy named Ackerman advocated calling Fred Barnes and other conservatives racist to try to lessen the heat from Liberation Theologist Reverend Wright. I saw email hoping Rush Limbaugh would have a heart attack and writhe in pain. This from the Beltway press. We need a free press to keep the government in line. They should not be friends.

    I see petty comparisons about Obama golfing but W took more time off than Obama. Really!!! Petty.

    I see racism becoming a huge obstacle in common sense discourse. This Shirley Sherrill incident is bad. Breitbart (stupidly) started the ball rolling on her statement about 25 years ago. Fox showed the clip after the fact of her firing. Her firing on the rumor that Glenn Beck was going to show it. The Federal Government cast this woman aside before any of the facts were corroborated. OReilly damned her at first. He later admitted he was wrong. Beck said the ADministration was wrong and didn't run with it because of context. You may hate Beck but when he runs a soundbite it is usually from the persons own mouth. The aha mentality in Washington is beyond ridiculous. Rumor causing firings?

    I see fear and outright hate for the TEA Party. I see the NAACP attacking and getting attacked.

    We have to dial it back and calm down. These issues are volatile so it is not so easy.

    I know my progressive friends blame every woe on the Republicans but that just isn't true. It is partially true. If the last administration and congresses had actually not overspent and not gone to war in Iraq, Barack Obama probably would not have been elected. The mood of the country would not have been quite as polarized. Hillary or McCain would have been elected.

    As it is, we are moving towards a time where we will not be able to pay off our debts, pay our services, pay our retirement, pay our disabilities, pay our medical bills.

    We are going bankrupt, and if this country goes down (financially) it will take the rest of the world with it.

    So I ask again, how much control do you want to give the Federal Government? And yes JoB, common sense rules and regulations should be put on the financial institutions, businesses, corporations and government. Let business make money and pay taxes. What a concept.

    Anyway, we still are all equal in one area. If you are registered to vote, then you can vote. This is where we do the most good (and damage) it would seem. I miss going to the polling stations. Write in is great but sometimes it was good to go somewhere. If I pass away, I will let my wife vote for me. No, I won't. She would vote Democrat. :( And she is not even a citizen! Although she does kind of like Beck. And Twilight. What is it with teenage girls and 40 year old moms?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  37. HMC Rich...

    "vote for who you think will do the best job"

    small businesses are still the fastest growing employers in the United States...

    so who will republicans support?

    http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/1996-22-TARP-Supporters-Vote-Against-the-Small-Business-Lending-Fund

    Republicans .. eager to give big business any handout.. but not so eager to support small businesses...

    unfortunately.. this vote is of a piece with too many others...

    If you aren't one of the top 1% earners in the United States.. voting republican isn't going to get you anything you want.
    It isn't even going to get you what you need.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  38. btw...

    i just couldn't resist such ripe bait...

    Glen Beck's friday night pieces on the founders would be more inspiring if he stuck to the truth.

    next friday.. listen to his special and then look up what the founder he talked about actually wrote about the subject.

    Glen Beck is an entertainer at best and a con man at worst.. if you are getting your information from him.. you are getting bad information.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  39. c@lbob...

    as a party.. i couldn't agree with you more.

    as individuals.. too many are deluded... victims of the great American con.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  40. Delusional people have to live free too, I suppose, unless we're speaking of John Hinkley or Terry McVeigh; but when the deluded start to form into populist movements, they need to be stopped.

    There is a concerted effort by the US Chamber of Commerce, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, etc. to deform information 24 hours a day.

    Those right wing instutions do not care about the fate of millions and millions of people just like me. If corporations take their tax cuts and move operations to India or China, that okey dokey with the Chamber, Fox, Limbaugh, et al. Then, when unemployment gets so bad that there is little prospect that people who exhaust their benefits will get a job anytime soon, and are on the path to ending up living in a card board boxes, they (me and mine) are called lazy.

    You are either with me or with them, and the positions are black and white. If you vote for, let's say, Dino Rossi; you are taking sides with the BIAW and against me. I don't care if you think he speaks well, presents ideas clearly, got a raw deal in 2004. In particular, I don't want his budget balancing on my back and those like me. Rossi is the BIAW candidate. That's bad for me. He's going to be for unrestricted growth throughout the state and against environmental protections; for keeping a perfectly nonsensical tax structure and against reform.

    Whether the guy who runs the local auto shop is a "good person" or not, if he buys his parts from the person who stole my Ford, its irrelevant. He shouldn't be allowed to further activities that deprive me of a thing I need.

    And those that recommend that shop to others because it is so cheap to get your car fixed are fools.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  41. c@lbob, you go too far. What do you mean by "tolerating good conservatives is a bad idea"?

    What's your suggestion? —That we refuse to address any of their issues? That we ban Republicans as a political party?

    Talk about "writing off whole classifications of people as unworthy" . . .

    Consider the practical implications of your words, my friend.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  42. I've been living through 40 plus years of the results of tolerating "good" conservative ideas, beginning with Goveror Ronald Reagan of California in 1966. That tin god of good conservatives set the state on the course to being the basket case it is today. After that triumph, he did the same for the rest of the United States.

    All the while, Democrats have been dreaming of appeasing the unrelenting greed of those who would elect politicians like Reagan. The result has been a Frankenstein monster factory assembly line of Reagan facsimilies, models that make Ronnie seem like a Model T in comparison.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  43. Thanks Rich, you say it so much better then most.

    I get so tired of the people on both sides that only vote for one party and consider the other side duped or worse.

    We’ve gotten ourselves in this mess by asking our government to provide us with more than we can afford. That goes for Social programs and corporate tax cuts.

    What I would like is a financially conservative government that sets up a payment plan that will eliminate the debt over the next 20 years. This will likely require real spending cuts, raising some taxes and the elimination of many federal programs.

    So with elections just around the corner I ask everyone, will you vote for one party or open your eyes to “the other side”? Maybe even vote for just one member of the other party.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  44. Mark32...specifically, where would you make the spending cuts, what federal programs would you eliminate?

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  45. Mark32..

    "What I would like is a financially conservative government that sets up a payment plan that will eliminate the debt over the next 20 years. "

    this might sound familiar because it is exactly what Clinton did with the assistance of Al Gore. Do you remember the audit Al did on govt agencies and the resulting savings?

    unfortunately.. we elected the guy everyone wanted to have beer with and made fun of the guy who was into saving our collective dollar.

    The guy you wanted to have beer with started a very expensive war and then topped that off with pulling the teeth of government oversight on the financial sector.

    All his buds made out big time... but they nearly killed the goose that lays the golden eggs in the process. Even Greenspan didn't think they were that stupid and greedy.. but there you go.

    if you want real fiscal conservatism.. elect a democrat. If they can.. they will bring the deficit down by putting actual Americans to work. Novel idea, huh.

    The deficit skyrockets during republican administrations. They may cut social spending but they sure up the ante on corporate welfare while the public picks up the check for their mistakes:(

    This democratic president is between a rock and hard place. If he doesn't spend the economy takes a permanent nose dive. If he does, the deficit takes a temporary beating.

    Republicans shouldn't gloat over the situation they created...

    unless of course they are one of those 1% whose personal wealth has skyrocketed during the economic downturn that nearly put the rest of us under...

    it's far more likely that those doing the chest beating and gloating have been the victims of the very system they want to put back in power.

    but hey.. it sure would be fun having a beer with a babe like Sarah.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  46. I'm gonna help Mark32 out here, don't say I don't reach out to "conservatives".

    Here's how we cans save trillions of dollars over the next decade, cut the defense department by 75%. Leave troops deployed everywhere possible within that limit.

    Nationalize all the petroleum production within the sovereign territories of the United States, and declare it a national defense reserve.
    We'd still be this biggest military power on the planet. Make the sole mission of the military the protection of those same US sovereign territories and leave the middle east to whoever wants to screw with it.

    Cutting the military is one Ron Paul idea I can line up behind, he's not nearly as far reaching as I am, but it's a start.

    But what about all those unnecessary soldiers and sailor and airmen that will come home, you ask? Why let's put them to work in the domestic healthcare industry - research, public health, doctors, nurses, etc. Retrain those young minds for some productive purpose.

    We are gonna need to get off the oil teat, as well, so battery production, research and deployment will be a big receptor of them. Development of tide, wind, solar -- maybe even nuclear, if the waste problem can be solved.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  47. Want some more? Let's repeal every tax cut implemented since 1981, put the tax rate back to what it was then.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  48. Now I can get behind you, c@lbob.

    You're advocating for concrete policies . . . all of which I happen to agree with.

    —David

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  49. For those of you in favor of "reasonable" Republican pols in state and local government, consider:'

    (A)

    In November 2005, King County GOP Vice Chairman Lori Sotelo was dead wrong in her claim that voter registration addresses were not those of legitimate residences. She clearly violated RCW 29A.08.810 when she signed the affidavit that asserted:

    " I,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of Washington that I am a registered voter in the State of Washington and that I hereby challenge the voter registration of:
    << registered voter >>
    I have personal knowledge and belief that this person is not qualified to vote or does not reside at the address given on his or her voter registration record, as evidenced below. I have exercised due diligence to personally verify the evidence presented."

    The only evidence Sotelo presented was the fact that the addresses she challenged were in areas of Seattle that housed, predominantly, commercial buildings. She, nor any of the King County Repulicans, had actually walked the streets and knocked on doors to verify the theory reached by comparing registered addresses to city maps.

    A day after the Republicans lost their challenges to ballots cast Nov. 8, the King County prosecutor Norm Maleng (Republican) said he would not be charging Sotelo with anything. He said his office had investigated the matter and found no intent by Sotelo to make false statements.

    (B)

    In March 2010 Republican Attorney General joined with 11 other State AGs to file a frivilous challenge to the historic, hard foughy and just passed Health Care Legislation. He had and has absolutely no legal leg to stand on.

    When Democrats give up and vote for Republicans, that is what they get. Blatant thumbs in the eye to Democratic voters.

    Posted 1 year ago #         
  50. "Republicans .. eager to give big business any handout.. but not so eager to support small businesses..."

    ....while at the same time, proclaiming VERY LOUDLY how the Democrats hate small business....

    Mike

    Posted 1 year ago #         

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