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Dorli Rainey the 84 year old woman pepper sprayed will speak at Occupy Sea. Sat.

Started 6 months ago by csw2119
Latest reply from TDe

csw2119
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Dorli will be a guest speaker at the Occupy Seattle rally at Westlake Park this Sat. I don't have an exact time for her speech. It's going to be a sunny day, come down to the park and see for yourself what's going on!

Posted 6 months ago #
JV
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I wonder what kind of brilliance she has to share. After 84 years on this earth, you would think she would have been wise enough not to surround herself with the type of people who provoke pepper spray!

Now if she's sharing some fantastic cookie recipes, that'll be a good use of your time!

Posted 6 months ago #
dobro
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I guess you didn't see her interview with Keith Olbermann. She's an extremely well spoken woman who grew up in Germany/Austria during Hitler's rise, who has participated in the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement, has a unique and powerful perspective on our era, and has a lot of wisdom to pass on that has nothing to do with recipes.

You're joking, right?

Posted 6 months ago #
datamuse
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I'm still trying to figure out what "type" of people provoke pepper spray.

Not JV's type, I'm guessing. Or so s/he thinks, anyway.

Posted 6 months ago #
Bostonman
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She got pepper sprayed for being in a group that was breaking the law. I don't care if she was 84 or 15. You break the law and stuff happens. The right to protest doesn't give you the right to create civil disobediance.

Posted 6 months ago #
JanS
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wow, JV, you certainly have a skewed view of women, don't you. So women should shut up, stay home, bake cookies,barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen? don't have a brain? I'd like to see you go one on one with Ms. Rainey, debating what's right and wrong with this country and this world.

Posted 6 months ago #
JanS
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Bostonman...sometimes the protests are inconvenient...democracy is inconvenient at times. But as long as people play by YOUR rules it's OK? I think "civil disobedience" is the point...to make yourself heard....

Posted 6 months ago #
dobro
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Anyone that thinks peaceful demonstrators exercising their constitutional right to assemble deserve to be attacked by police with pepper spray needs their head examined.

Posted 6 months ago #
dobro
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Here's a link to the interview if you actually care to hear what a smart, committed 84 year old sounds like. I made it into a TinyURL cuz it was long. It links to the Current TV website where the video is held.

http://tinyurl.com/cpaffe5

Posted 6 months ago #
csw2119
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It seems that there are a few of you who don't understand what patriotism is, or caring enough about our country to take a stand against injustice.

Have you not seen the injustice? Or do you just turn away from it? The politicians are not working on your behalf, they are working for Wall St. It's legal for politicians to do insider trading, to get in and out before you and I know have any idea of what's happening. We could talk about the criminals that are on the board of the FED. How about your parents, are they able to get by on their social security with prices climbing constantly? I sure hope they don't get sick without Medicare. And what about you? Now that your house is less than it was worth 4 years ago, and you've lost money in your 401K, do you thing you are going to retire. . . before 70??? Do you know anyone who had their house foreclosed? Friends that can't find a job? Then there is war, putting this country in obscene debt, and countless lives gone, not to mention destroyed families.

Ms. Dorli, is fighting for a better government, world, and future for everyone. I believe it was the Mayor in Oakland that said, "democracy is sometimes messy". It's messy and inconvenient, and it's going to continue until changes are made.

What exactly are you doing to make the future better for all?

Posted 6 months ago #
JanS
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dobro, thanks. I hadn't seen that. What a wonderful, courageous woman.

Posted 6 months ago #
csw2119
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I second that, thank you dobro.

Posted 6 months ago #
dobro
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Here's another important perspective on policing by former Seattle chief Norm Stamper..

http://www.nationofchange.org/lessons-police-chief-militarization-mistake-1321627137

Posted 6 months ago #
JoB
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bostonman...

perhaps you don't fully understand the role of civil disobedience in our country...

Thoreau's essay on civil disobedience from the mid 1800s stated the case aptly...

you can find a summary here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_%28Thoreau%29

Posted 6 months ago #
JV
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Dobro, you are the only person who saw the interview with Keith Olberman. He has like 200 viewers, all of whom are already in full agreement with him on everything anyway. Much like the past few posts on this thread, just patting each other on the backs. How cute.

So if Olberman cared about real journalism, why didn't he do a show on the people who died or were raped in these camps? Those are far worse than getting pepper sprayed...I'm sure even you would agree with that.

Posted 6 months ago #
JoB
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JV...

if you watched the Oberman show you might learn why he did this show...

is your basic argument
that if people are dieing in these camps (have they died of violence ?) or being raped
then it is ok for the police to assault them with pepper spray?

or that
if they choose to demonstrate in America
then they have intentionally placed themselves in jeopardy
so it is ok for the police to assault them?

not such a good argument when you put it that way, is it?

Posted 6 months ago #
JV
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Obviously I'm not saying it's okay for Police to assault anybody. (obviously to most anyway)

I'm saying that death and rape is wose than an hour of ouchie eyes and scratchy throat. But Olberman wouldn't bother to do stories on that stuff because those stories don't play as well to his audiences' heart strings. Also, the peppered grandma story had video which makes it easier for his audience to understand because it doesn't involve any reading.

(as for the deaths, they tend to be drug overdoses, etc.)

Posted 6 months ago #
Bostonman
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LOL so you are telling me because its a cause you believe in people should break the law. Bull. Spin it how you want, break the law get pepper sprayed. Don't like it tough.

Posted 6 months ago #
dobro
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"Dobro, you are the only person who saw the interview with Keith Olberman."

I posted it here. Did you watch it? Why would the number of people seeing it have anything to do with its content? Have any cogent comments about the issues instead of Foxnews lies and misrepresentations about drug use and rape? Didn't think so.

"break the law get pepper sprayed. Don't like it tough."

JoB posted a classic writing on civil disobediance. Did you read it? Do you think there should be different levels of force for law enforcement or is it just "break the law get pepper sprayed"? Comment on this would require thought and consideration, not just short slogans. Up for that? Didn't think so.

Posted 6 months ago #
JV
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Dobro, so you're saying that the rapes, drug use and various other crimes didn't take place?

Or because Fox News (also) reported on them, it magically makes them fake stories?

As for civil disobedience, the Occupooers don't have a right to block roads, businesses, sidewalks, etc. because the rest of us have a right/obligation to go to work and provide for our families, or go shopping downtown without being harrassed by these people.

Posted 6 months ago #
JanS
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JV...seems to me that you are more interested in the pooing, raping, violence in the world, than with what is actually happening in our country. It seems to me that you have an obsession with these things, since that;s all you talk about. Might you be able to let all of that go, and start talking about the issues in an intelligent way? Or will you continue to dwell on the seedier side of society? Is that all you're really interested in? Hmmm...

Posted 6 months ago #
Bostonman
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Because rape, drug use and various other crimes aren't the seedier side of society? Bull again.

Dobro, breaking the law is breaking the law. If a cop pulls me over for speeding and I don't pull over and after he chases me for 2 hours I better expect to get my ass thrown to the ground. You know why? Because I broke the law. Pepper spray is probably a first deterent to getting these vagrants to comply with the law. I guess they could have tased them too which wouldn't bother me one bit.

All non lethal forms of riot control. I don't care if you think its justified.

Posted 6 months ago #
kootchman
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What issues? Pepper spray is the smell of protest. Don't wimp out. If you are going to defecate, trespass, infringe, trespass, defy, get the full experience. Embrace the pepper spray ... be at one with it. A taser jolt, irritated mucosa, and a few bumps and lumps..these are things that come with occupying space you don't own. oooommmmmmmm!

Posted 6 months ago #
dobro
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"All non lethal forms of riot control. I don't care if you think its justified."

Thanks for clarifying. I don't care what you think either so I guess discussion's over.

Posted 6 months ago #
JV
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Jan, the crimes I've discussed coming from the seedier side of society is all-inclusive with this Occupy trip! The criminal element is still going to be there, whether you want to ignore it or not. I'm not dwelling on it, I'm just pointing it out because some people want to make excuses for these crimes, and that concerns me. It should concern everyone.

They want you to think that occupy people are just a nice, sweet bunch of people who are singing songs, and then some big mean police man just pepper sprays them for no reason! GASP! "Dorli Rainey, a sweet 84-year-old was just knitting sweaters and she received an unprovoked shot of pepper spray!?"

I'm sure that's how it was presented on NPR.

Posted 6 months ago #
JV
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Dobro, I care what you think! Don't let that mean Bostonman get you down! ;)

I appreciate Bostonman's clear answer - All non lethal forms of riot control. Easy to understand, cut and dry. Agree or disagree, we know where he stands. (I agree.)

So let's hear it Dobro, where is your line on this issue? Should people be allowed to shut down traffic? How do we manage that situation? Should we allow only harsh language? Yellow police tape? Squirt guns? Should they be allowed to prevent people from going to work, or walking down the street? I've heard a lot of commentary from you, but when it comes right down to it you are pretty elusive with your own opinions on any of these matters.

I care what you think Dobro, so let's hear it.

Posted 6 months ago #
JanS
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JV...get over yourself. It's the only thing you bring up, time and again. You are speaking as if that is the majority of people in the protest, and that people should be fearful. You do yourself a disservice, and you do the intelligent, peaceable protestors (who may not agree with your views)a disservice, and you spread fear to people. You have not witnessed anything firsthand...you just report what you read. It is tiresome.

Yes, there is a faction of people who have joined the occupy movement that we all wish was not there. But it is NOT the only thing we talk about. There is so much more to it, and it should be generating constructive, intelligent conversation, if nothing else. Do I go to the protests? NO..I have failing kidneys, and spend my time at other things like dialysis. Do I support the core movement? Undoubtedly. Would I like to see you and people like you dismiss as bad the protestors who are a pain in the ass, and move on, and lets talk the issues? Damned straight.

And guess what? I don't listen to NPR. I work at home, at the age of 64,with illness and failing kidneys and, like you, don't have the time, often. Dorli Rainey? She, in her life, has never been your idea of a woman who sits at home, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, baking cookies, and knitting scarves. She may do that in her spare time, but she has devoted her adult life to what she sees as the injustices in the world. She walks her talk, which is more than I can say about a lot of us on here...so tell me what she did that was so wrong as to be pepper sprayed directly in the face?

Posted 6 months ago #
JV
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Jan, I accept your criticism. You said I spread fear to people and just report what I read. Okay, I'm fine with that. In contrast, you are spreading a dangerous niavete about this movement based on what you read. One of us is right, one of us is wrong.

Maybe it falls somewhere in the middle.

Or maybe we are just reading different articles.

Posted 6 months ago #
csw2119
Member Profile

JV all I can say is if you want to know what is going on with the movement, you will have to come to Westlake on a Sat. or go to one of the General Assembly meetings held every night.

Also, Jan said something very important:

"Yes, there is a faction of people who have joined the occupy movement that we all wish was not there. But it is NOT the only thing we talk about. There is so much more to it, and it should be generating constructive, intelligent conversation, if nothing else."

I was in the middle of a group of 3,000-5,000 protesters a couple of weeks ago, and I can tell you with out a doubt, I felt safer in that huge crowd than I was walking down 3rd Ave. in the middle of the day.

Posted 6 months ago #
csw2119
Member Profile

I forgot to mention, I heard Dorli speak this past Sat. at Westlake. She was AWESOME, she is fighting to keep our Medicare and Social Security. Besides she is as cute as they come, all 4'10" of her! I can't begin to imaging being that dynamic at 84 yrs.

Posted 6 months ago #
greatfree1
Member Profile

I'm for this movement, saying that, what are the police supposed to do when people won't obey their commands? Really, I want to know. It seems as though the police are always in the wrong. To rough or not tough enough.

Posted 6 months ago #
DBP
Member Profile

Strange as it seems, there is some logic to what Boston, kootch, and JV are saying.

Now before you cut me off at the knees . . . I'm NOT saying the cops were right to pepper-spray Dorli. But there does come a point in any protest movement when you can expect the authorities to start pushing back. (Otherwise, what exactly are you protesting, anyway?)

The issue here is not whether civil disobedience is ever justified, nor is it whether the government has a right to maintain public order. The issue is whether, in this one instance, the cops responded appropriately to the situation.

I say no: the cops used too much force. And they've taken some heat for it, which I think is appropriate.

The question of civil disobedience in general is really another matter and we should probably discuss that one outside the context of headlines like "Local grandma gets pepper-sprayed."

I'll start that thread presently.

Posted 6 months ago #
JanS
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well, JV...I do not go to the protests because I am not physically able, but I have friends that do...over 40 friends...and they are not campers, they have jobs, they have homes, they take baths, they are not criminals and they are not bums...you?

Posted 6 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

DBP..Dorli said herself that she is one tough cookie, and being sprayed with pepper spray, while uncomfortable, energized her. My gripe is that's the only time you see coverage of the Occupy movement..when the pepper spray breaks out, or when a small faction creates havoc. And it creates a false idea about the major parts of the movement, the peaceable, intelligent parts. You and I both know that it's not all bums, ne'er-do-wells( I love that word - lol), that it's people like you and me, too. But in a perfect world, a "protest" would have rules, and not inconvenience anyone, and stay within the lines, and not make waves. And you and I both know that it's far from a perfect world. I do feel, however, that there are people in higher places that need to feel that inconvenience, not always the "person on the street".

Posted 6 months ago #
csw2119
Member Profile

I was at the very first march and we marched on the sidewalks and stopped for every light. It was as civil as it could be. I have marched with thousands, again, orderly. I don't know why the police were so aggressive the night Dorli was pepper sprayed. I marched the following night and there were about 1,000 and lots of cops and all was fine. You have to keep in mind, there are people protesting with us that are NOT part of the movement. If they cause problems or destroy property, I'll be the first to get a cop involved.

Posted 6 months ago #
kootchman
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If I need to feel inconvenience... than you need to feel pepper spray. That's a fair trade dontcha think? It's a fairness thing.

Posted 6 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

okay, kootch. next time you hold up traffic because your car stalls, or you're talking on the phone, or you write a check in the grocery store line, or you stop suddenly in the middle of the sidewalk, or you cross the street when i'm trying to turn, or you slow me down in any way from getting where i'm going, i get to pepper spray you.

it's a fairness thing.

Posted 6 months ago #
JV
Member Profile

Redblack, if kootch is breaking the law when doing any of those ings, feel free.

Again:

Illegal = pepper spray.
Legal = no pepper spray

Simple enough right?

Posted 6 months ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

sorry, didnt read every post but this stood out:

"Because I broke the law."

It used to be against the law to sit on the white side of the counter if you were black. Thank GOD someone decided to BREAK the law.

Not saying I agree with OCW 100%, but if your argument is the law is always right... then you probably have no problem with pro-choice, since its what the LAW allows. gotta follow the law.

Posted 6 months ago #
kootchman
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Pro choice is the law of the land.. for now. What will overturn it? Repetitive constant assaults against it. Support is diminishing for pro-choice, it is in retreat at every juncture. Why so? Time, conviction, persistence, civil disobedience and a sharp clear message from the opposition. The pro-life movement didn't stand around in putrid public and private spaces with vacuous stares. They went after the practitioners, the institutions, and the fence sitting politicians. Direct action against the appropriate targets.

Posted 6 months ago #
JanS
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yeah, including killing the doctors...

Posted 6 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

JV...

women get raped and people die of drug overdoses at all types of public venues...

yet we don't hear much about it...

is that another Oberman conspiracy?

Or are they all Occupy Wall Street gatherings in disguise?

Anywhere two or more gather ...

Posted 6 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kootch...

you overestimate your case

pro-choice is not dead.

the extremist legislation that has been floated this year that far exceeded restricting abortion has made it abundantly clear to even anti-abortion women that personal choice is a necessity if they want to control their own family planning.

Posted 6 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

Illegal = pepper spray.
Legal = no pepper spray

Simple enough right?

sure. if you're an automaton and can't discern when disobedient people need to be "put down" and when they can simply be picked up, cuffed, and thrown in a paddy wagon.

or simply ignored.

full-riot-gear response from cops when people are merely sitting or obstructing doesn't warrant assault with pepper spray.

regarding the pro-choice movement, a red state recently rejected a law - overwhelmingly - that declared a fetus a person.

the "pro-life" freepers can't get 'er done in the several states, either, let alone in the federal government. it seems the only thing they can do is try to defund and disparage a benevolent organization that helps low-income people with family planning.

jesus would be proud.

Posted 6 months ago #
Bostonman
Member Profile

I love that this turned into a car being broken down conversation. Way to take things literally. Now if I break down a cop comes and tells me to have my car towed and I tell him to piss off I want to block traffic then he is going to move it for me. If I fight him on it then I will get arrested.

Thats a better scenario. But if you can get your pepper spray to me and run away before you get hit with my 45 then good luck to you.

Posted 6 months ago #
redblack
Member Profile

my post was as hyperbolic and ridiculous as kootch's, and it was intentional. the problem is that kootch seems to think being inconvenienced is a justification for pepper-spraying someone.

Posted 6 months ago #
JoB
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redblack...

it's ok
Bostonman seems to think pepper spray is a reason to shoot someone...

oh dear
lions and tigers and bears, oh my

Posted 6 months ago #
dobro
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Commentary doesn't really get more pathetic than guys boasting about what big guns they have.

Posted 6 months ago #
HMC Rich
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It was an illegal protest. Dorly knew the risks. She has stated she wants regime change. (which regime by the way?) I am not pro or con for Dorly. The protestors were told to leave. They obstructed many you call the 99%. That protest only alienated people who may have somewhat supported the movement. Mayor McGinn was his spineless self and apologized. The Police did their job. I wish he would.

Typical. Illegal immigrants, illegal drugs, illegal protest, illegal etc, and you guys always back up the illegal stuff don't you?

Do you think the Police want to deal with this? And in these hard budget strapped times, who the hell is paying for the overtime for the Police? Yeah, the 99% and the 1%.

The Occupy movement has turned into a farce. If at one time the Tea Party would have had rape, public urination and defecation, drug busts, racist comments, you guys would have been screaming about it for two years.

I support people's right to protest but not to undermine the fabric of our society and in some places to undermine just common decency. Obama, Piven and crew want this dissatisfaction with our society. Funny, Obama got shouted down today (not by conservatives either). This is not a good path. Of course, him calling us Lazy probably wasn't such a good idea.

The occupy entitlement mentality shows how spoiled some of these people are. They say they care but I am not certain I see it. They are not protesters anymore. They are squatters and need to be removed...heck, I'll even supply the RID.

Posted 6 months ago #
JanS
Member Profile

rich...you see things one way...you want them to "care" in your interpretation. You claim rampant rape, drug use. Here in Seattle? Proof? If no one made noise and only did what you want, you would assume that they agree with you, your beliefs, your interpretation of things. The reality is...there are lots of people who see things differently than you - and if nothing else, they are now speaking up...and I'm willing to bet that they are pissing you off royally. it's only correct if you control it?

Now, before you jump on me, I don't condone everything that the protesters do..I guess I come from an era that saw a lot of civil unrest, and yes, was in the middle of tear gassed demonstrators...long time ago. I get it, I suppose, even if I'm not there joining them.

Posted 6 months ago #

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