Whether you're Dem. or Repub., more on the conservative side or on the liberal side, how do you feel about Rick Santorum's answer to this question? How do you feel about the silence of the rest of the candidates when he answered this soldier, and the audience's reaction of booing the soldier? Good article...
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/dont-ask/?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=thab1
1) Since when are two guys booing considered an "audience"? Heck, the two guys may have been booing the fact that the question was allowed to be asked, not necessarily the guy himself for all we know.
2) I kind of agree, why is it even an issue? Everyone should be able to serve (even the 1% of the population that is gay) without it ever becoming an issue.
double post.....
Maybe it was the same guy in the audience who yelled "YES!!" when the Repug panel was asked if people who had lost their jobs, along with their health insurance, should just be allowed to die. The panel was completely silent then as well.
Silence is complicity...
dhg
Member Profile
So now just 1% of the population is gay? Oh, this SO fits in with the right wing idea of enforcing inequality. You can say, "Look, only 1% of the population is gay so why even consider their needs? Let their partners die in the hospital alone. There are so few it doesn't matter."
dhg
Member Profile
Hey, did you catch the current front page story about the gay couple whose cars were broken into and a note telling them to leave. Guess because gays are only 1% of the population there's nothing to be concerned about here.
Huh? I don't care if gays are .00001 percent, hate crimes are never, ever, ever ok. Sorry if I was unclear.
As for gays in the military, let them serve. Just not sure why sexual orientation ever has to come up?
I think the rhetoric on the Left is much more civil. To quote Bill Maher:
"Sarah Palin Would 'F--k' Rick Perry If He Was Black"
Thoughts, Jan?
dobro
Member Profile
Bill Maher is a comedian, not "the Left". These are the kind of pathetic examples right wingers have to reach for to find their uncivil comments. The people this thread is about are running for the Republican presidential nomination. They are the ones who didn't have the decency to speak up when audience members were booing a soldier. Got any examples of that kind of rhetoric from a Democratic presidential candidate?
The fact that you think gays represent 1 per cent of the population shows the level of your interest in factual information.
dhg
Member Profile
So what, exactly, is the point of repeating the misinformation that gays are 1% of the population?
As for why sexual orientation would have to ever come up, it happens when you live with a tight community in a tight space. You think gays should fake it and pretend to be straight or you think they should not talk. Neither is actually workable and the latter actually leads to violence.
Silence has been tried. It can be deadly. Teams of men taught to kill do not accept an aloof mate.
miws
Member Profile
Just not sure why sexual orientation ever has to come up?
Because the religious right repubs make a big stink over it?
Mike
What is most disturbing to me is not just that those kind of comments are being made... but that they are being made in public political venues without comment from those whose aspire to be our leaders.
The phrase rude, crude and socially unacceptable seems to be passe...
and yet, regardless of who that kind of remarks are directed at...
they are rude and crude and certainly should be socially unacceptable...
especially in a formalized public political venue.
Instead of rationalizing.. we should be condemning
no mater which "side" this kind of behavior comes from.
I just now read the front page story about thugs who sign themselves the KKK and presume to police our neighborhoods in our name...
Yup.. in our name.
All hate crimes begin with hate speech
and as long as we don't take a stand against that kind of speech every place we find it
we are as complicit as those Republican presidential hopefuls
who listened respectfully
as their colleague proceeded to demean a citizen of this United States who chose military service to their country.
and equally respectfully to thugs in the crowd who shouted anti-gay slurs
shame on them
shame on us for buying the bullshit that this kind of speech is ok when cloaked in political rhetoric ...
it's not ok
it's not ok from a podium
it's not ok from audience members
it's not ok on our nightly news
it's not ok on our streets or in our schools
and it's really not ok typewritten on a message bound to a rock thrown through a window
it's time we decided whether we are going to let the bullies
set our national conversation
set the agenda
and bully our neighbors
I am not up for that
are you?
So the Republicans are responsible for the hate crime on 50th?
This is like the lame argument that the Palin cross-hair map (as opposed to the democrat strategic committee cross-hair map) created the atmosphere for the Arizona shooting.
S t r e t c h
Smitty..you don't really get it, do you? Where did JoB say that the Repubs are responsible for the hate crime on 50th? It's the attitude that we-YOU- don't decry these things when they happen. Rick Santorum is an idiot. He should have been shouted down at the get go, and the fact that the rest of the crowd, Perry, Romney, Cain, et. al. let him do it speaks volumes about how far we haven't come. They are running for the office of the President of the US of A. And it's pathetic that some have decided that they will be president of just those that are heterosexual.
And...if you've been in any of the armed forces, you know how ludicrous it is for Mr. Santorum to state unequivocally that there should be NO sexual activity in the military. LOLOL!
And the fact that you seem to be defending him? Or defending the entire crew of candidates? I can't comprehend that. We do have a long, long way to go in this country, don't we?
redblack
Member Profile
why would i watch that debate? it was a rerun. i saw it 30 years ago.
supply-side. lower taxes. the american government is corrupt and evil. "job creators" are holy. democrats are socialist bums. pro-my-kind-of-life. the constitution is based on christian doctrine.
all filtered through corporate media and lame non-questions.
i did note that the former governor, gary johnson (R-NM), was invited this time, though. you know: the only anti-drug-prohibition republican on the slate. i heard him interviewed by david schuster not too long ago. from a democrat's perspective, he's the only electable one on the menu.
did he get to field any questions? and if he did, were they loaded questions that made him appear radical and dangerous?
what i find interesting is that the straw poll selected a dark horse candidate..
one i personally think a bigger fool than the rest
smitty...
the acceptance of hate speech does that.
"what i find interesting is that the straw poll selected a dark horse candidate.."
If only I would have said that...........
Herman Cain...as the founder of Godfather's Pizza, what exactly qualifies him to be Prez? besides that he fits the age, etc. criteria. I'm thinking he should have run for something smaller first...dogcatcher, perhaps? to show people what he's made of in the trenches...but, that's just my opinion...worth, a penny in this economy..
smitty...
why would you read racial implications into a perfectly reasonable statement?
dark horse candidates have traditionally been white men
occassionally they aren't .. sometimes they are even women
The only thing I can add after watching the debate is if Perry is nominated I will vote for Obama. Ohhh I said it even as a right wing conservative. I do love listening to guys bash republicans lol. We are all Christian, right wing, corporate loving racists.
Hermain Cain only has a few less years of political experience than Obama. I don't really care how people in the audience reacted to a gay soldier. The candidates reaction is nothing more than what you want to read into it.
redblack
Member Profile
i'm not bashing you, bostonman. i'm bashing GOP politicians.
Yea that wizard we have now in the big house...he sure came qualified to run this economy and it shows... say... where was Obama and his condemnation of Jimmy Hoffa Jr.? That was hate speech..nary a peep from the Prez. Dudes and Dudettes..... we who served all know we served with gays..it was not earth shattering...much ado about nothing... who wants sex with anyone after 5 days in the boonies, 110 degree heat, sweaty crotches, and no showers? Just stay awake on post, be a good shot, and do your job. Ya had to do something...and get caught... but then again... heterosexual sex was illegal too.
this has absolutely nothing to do with Obama...I just wanted opinions about this. Heterosexual sex, on their own time, is perfectly legal in the military now...and happens often, I'm sure. My opinion is that I don't think someone should get in trouble with the military for something they do in a bedroom on their own time, whether it's same sex or opposite sex. And, frankly, I think Rick Santorum is way outta line...maybe a stint in Afghanistan would so him some good.
Uh Jan.. YOUR post #19 ? Solicitation is illegal....conduct unbecoming, and carnal knowledge are ALL covered under the UCMJ and all of them can include sex as an element.... sooo Ms. Jan .. depending on the attitudes of your CO... sex can certainly cost you money, promotion, and brig time... screw a junior enlisted mans wife.. on your own time, consensual or not... you are dead on arrival in front of the old man...
At least Mr. Cain knows how to run an operation. It is relevant. Since the people who have been in government have completely screwed it up, maybe an outsider would be better. In fact 2 and a half years ago, that was heard now and again about a young, well spoken, former community organizer. Hope and Change. One who was going to be the great uniter but is now telling a group of people to get their marching boots on. I guess that happens when you lose the independents.
If I were a news reporter I would find the people who booed and would ask them if they were booing the soldier, booing the question, or booing gays.
I have heard many people talking but very little substance.
Bostonman, there is no such thing as a conservative voting for Obama. If they do, they are NOT a conservative or do not know the meaning. BHO is the antithesis of a conservative. That is why we knew many of his policies would not help the country.
As far as sex in the military...hmmm I have heard all kinds of stories, but the one that bothered me is one about a young lieutenant who would not share his wife with higher ranked officers. He hit a wall on promotions. Boys and girls, girls and girls and boys and boys will have sex. Time to worry about something else. But, whether you agree or disagree with Santorum or someone else, they have a right to their opinion. Too bad if you do not like it. As long as it is civil it is legal. Funny how some forget that at times.
Kman...I wasn't talking about solicitation. I was talking about a man and a woman in the military who date, often have consensual sex...you know it, and I know it. The enlisted men even take women back to the barracks with them at times. Or married couples...I'm betting they have sex, too. Esp. if they have children...the stork doesn't go to ,military hospitals. When I was in the army, I worked under a captain and a lieutenant, both male, who lived together, definitely gay.
No one is talking aobut illegal sex here, as in prostitution. And messing around with a married other, whether a military person, or a civilian, will definitely get you into hot water at times. Not recommended.
redblack
Member Profile
rich: re: hermain cain: 9-9-9 is more supply-side b.s. on steroids. the poor get a (sales) tax hike, and the top 1% gets its tax rates slashed even further.
and those are the very policies that have crippled the american economy for 30 years and driven up deficits and debt.
but we won't talk about that, will we?
so when wall street gets bailed out (by republicans) then sits on over $2 trillion in cash reserves instead of investing in the economy at large, what do you expect a democratic president to do? nothing? govern like a republican?
i just don't understand why the right expects obama to slash spending, when republicans have spilled far more red ink than democrats. what republicans have effectively done is crippled the economy so that democrats can't govern like democrats, then blamed democrats for crippling the economy. and then you expect obama to govern from an even more conservative/neo-liberal fiscal position than republicans have ever taken?
the only argument republicans have is that we can't spend our way out of a deficit.
my response is, "how the hell would you know?"
redblack
Member Profile
kootch: i have no problem with what james hoffa, jr., had to say, and i agree with the sentiment:
"take these sons-of-bitches out [of office.]"
how in the world does the tea party expect their anarchist candidates to govern effectively or understand complex issues?
kootch..
you didn't need to be caught having sex with anyone to be booted out of the military for being gay.
HMCRich
"BHO is the antithesis of a conservative. "
much to my dismay, this statement is totally untrue.
President Obama has turned out to be as close to a Reagan Republican as the democratic party has ever fielded.
You guys should be dancing in the aisles...
it's only the extremism of current rhetoric that blinds you to that truth
You can call me a moderate if you want then Rich, an independent I guess. It keeps my opinions fresh, lets me look at each decision and choice independently rather than just because Perry says it then it must be true. There is such a thing as too republican and too democratic. Perry, is crazy. I wouldn't vote for him. Obama other than his health care has lowered my taxes through the SSI break to employers.
I like a few of the candidates in the replublican camp but not all. Obama isn't anything that the people voted for thought he was. Thats part of the reason the independents don't like him as much now.
of course you agree redblack... but you said it all... "we can't spend ourselves out of a deficit".. try it on your credit card dude. Tell AX you are overspent... and to get out of it.. you need to go another 50K over your card limit. We did try it... unemployment went up another 2 percentage points.. remember Stimulus 1... that quick just give Just give me the crack pipe speech? It won't go over 8 per cent? ... 9 .9. 9. ? Not a bad start... did ya see the part where all the "special" deduction were eliminated? You can't tax effectively or fairly when the paper pages of a tax code weigh over a half ton. None of us should be shielded from paying taxes..or we get this kind of crap politics..... all should bear the cost of the gimmees...at a minimum they MIGHT consider if my taxes go from 9 to 9.5 for the cost of this program..do I really want or need it that bad? When you put into the pot... you get dealt in. Here's the harsh reality of it.... the persons being taxed are the only ones who can decide if it is too much. And...being the smarter subset of the tribe..(generally) or at least hiring smarter assistants they will win. Every time. They will slip in a few pages more and you and I will never know or guess... ask this detestable hedge fund managers.. who gave them that 15% special deal... Hilary, Chuck, John, Joe... the Boston and NY constituents and their campaign dollars. If my citizenship is worth 9%.. so is yours.
redblack
Member Profile
try it on your credit card dude.
it worked for GM. it's called "investment." look it up.
or don't. just call it "government motors" a few times and make yourself feel better.
you're right, though, kootch. when you borrow money, piss it away on tax breaks and bombs, have nothing to show for it, then refuse to change your behavior or do anything substantial to pay it back, your credit rating suffers.
and we're talking about a nation's economy, btw, not a family or business credit card debt. big difference. remember our "budget-as-percentage-of-GDP" conversation?
the persons being taxed are the only ones who can decide if it is too much
right. the top 2% pay 30 or 40% of the nation's tax revenue because they have 30 or 40% of the nation's income and a bigger chunk of its wealth - or somewhere thereabouts.
who do you think pays the other 60%? the middle class has a far lesser share of the nation's wealth, and we got jacked by the tax cuts that we have nothing to show for. fact is, we are the vastly larger voting bloc (48% of taxpayers, since the bottom 50% effectively pays no taxes) and we pay a greater percentage of our income.
kootchman..
LOL.. of course you can spend yourself out of your credit card debt if what you are spending on generates income.
We are spending on tax breaks and incentives for businesses that aren't generating income.
spending on infrastructure generates jobs which generates income.. and you get that oh so nice infrastructure as a bonus which helps support commerce.
it's a win win.
Well let's see whathas happened to GM.... the stock is in the tank... luck has it we are now the largest shareholders... we are trading at 21 22 per share?.. That was a great "investment"... now the company has to be profitable enough to PAY US BACK... the stock needs to rise to 54 for us to break even...and whatt does the UAW do???? Instead of thanking us for the bailout and alowing them to stiff the bondholders (yea redblack, they screwed the investors..) they "negotitate with the Obama car czar for a raise and "signing bonus"..they once agan have the highest manufacturing costs per unit in the auto world.in fact they are in worse shape as an "ongoing" enterprise..and can't attract investors..so the stock keeps falling, and falling, and falling...there will be no second bailout...no one wants a piece of that turkey...It will run out of cash again...Mahindra Motors wants to buy pieces of it.. not the assembly work though. Watch all those robots get loaded on barges and shipped overseas...redblack.. how they gonna pay us back? It IS Government Motors..not one structural reform came out of that bailout..oh yea..and the taxpayer "cash for clunkers'' subsidy... more lost money. Scream about those loopholes why don't ya? Yea JoB .. you can.. it's called a line of credit and you can go to the bank, they will parse your business plan, evaluate your past credit history, the reasons you need the money, and what collateral you have... NOT like Solyndra or GM. Thanks but no thanks..on the infrastructure... that is what the bond market is for. redblack... whoa there horse... you are fudging the numbers too... Obama is not going after just the top 2%... you need to revisit the income distribution tables dude... he is going after the 200K earners too... so what if you pay a greater percentage? earn more... the field is wide open.... there is nothing in the constitution that says redblack should pay any less, or more... go for the flat tax then...we ALL pay the same percentage ... whatever it is. You all invented this notion of "effective rates" or "progressive taxation' in your own minds... a fair share is we all pay the same percentage of our income... you make less..you pay less... you make more you pay more. Buy a Ford.
Kootch
"on the infrastructure... that is what the bond market is for."
LOL... the bond market. really?
and what governmental (city/county/state) still has the credit rating to float those bonds?
not the local guys
that pretty much leaves the feds
unless of course you are in favor of an alternate private infrastructure that is based entirely on pay for use...
redblack
Member Profile
kootch: blah blah blah. you know i hate the stock market and all that it stands for.
which is basically nothing.
if they don't invest in main street, they're worthless to me. "dead to me," as my sicilian ancestors would say. they're cut off from the rest of us. skim our bills and taxes, and don't spend a dime in the general economy, except when it benefits themselves. whine like children about their 0 - 15% dividend taxes.
not american, as far as i'm concerned.
Obama is not going after just the top 2%... you need to revisit the income distribution tables dude... he is going after the 200K earners too
wow. you really have no idea where you live, do you? you seem to have no clue what real small business owners bring home.
here's a clue: the top 2% are only 2% of the population, so they're kind of hard to find. 1 in 50. no matter how big her lexus is, she's probably not in the top 2%.
get my drift?
okay, okay! you got me! you're right. i was fudging the numbers, kootch. $200,000.00 per year. sheesh. what was i thinking? can't put one over on you, can i?
i really meant the top 2.5%.
made a point to not watch the debates. Will when it gets closer, I guess.
So what exactly are the 'fixes' these guys are proposing?
Basically, Obama has been Bush lite... so what is their further right plan??
MORE tax cuts for the wealthy, canceling medicare/SS, defunding WIC, etc???
what exactly are their talking point??
as an aside, remember 10 years ago, govmt had the power/right to bring change to other countries... but somehow we can't even fathom to do the same for our own country????? Our own govmnt can't create jobs, but we can rebuild OTHER countries?!?!?!?!
Why is investing in others infrastructure is OK, but rebuilding ours is faced with such hatred.
redblack... I have been a small business owner for over 30 years...paying bills, suppliers, shipping companies, labor, accountants,... I know EXACTLY what he has in mind. I didn't do it for fun, nor did I do it for you or anyone else. It's not your money. You are not entitled to it...and it just horrifies most liberals.. that most of America actually admires those that took advantage of opportunity. The don't want to live with less opportunity...The stock market is a barometer... it shows how much faith investors have. Doesn't produce a thing..but it does show how much confidence investors have. No one believes the "investment" made in GM was an "investment". It was payoff time. The end result? It is still sick, it still has an overhead and operating cost structure that is the worst in the auto industry..we switched em over from crack to heroin. JoB EXACTLY the point...the government is so bloated and overextended it can't float a bond issue... our governments are bad risks...the yields are sooo low because? Because your man and his quantitative easing has so devalued the dollar it isn't worth squat. Trying to entice businesses to borrow and invest.. never will happen until he is gone,... Obamacare is repealed, and overt wealth redistribution is cast on the trash heap....sit on the cash and out wait him... that is the "new" business model. There will be no jobs until Obama is gone. Even Harry Reid said it... we are going to focus on other things, not his jobs bill... Seattle will be one of the last to get the message though.
"The stock market is a barometer... it shows how much faith investors have. "
are you serious? the stock market is a joke. It is overtly filled with people trying to make a quick buck. trading thousands of shares weekly to try to capture the minuscule uptick.
As a business man, if you are tying your success to wether the stock market rises or falls, it shows how little you know about small business.
"overt wealth redistribution is cast on the trash heap"
you mean like the tax rates we had under Clinton... buddy, we are living the times of the tax rates under Bush... still. Hmmm, which worked out better?????
"It's not your money. You are not entitled to it..."
Then you also are not entitled to my money to pay for millionaires and billionaires tax cuts, for their subsidies. Also for the unnecessary wars started to fight the wrong country costing us trillions. Can I get my and my children's refund for THAT???
kootch
it is not "your money" until you have paid all of your obligations which include taxes.
i get that you feel entitled to the tax cut that Bush gave you..
but it was a temporary tax cut
and it did not do it's stated job..
stimulating the economy and producing jobs
it didn't do it's job
because those who received the tax cut chose to speculate
and/or invest their money and create jobs overseas
because "they could make more money elsewhere".
Those who profited from the tax cut took the money under false pretenses kootch...
you act as though someone is expecting them to give it back
but nothing proposed is retroactive
all we are asking is to end a failed program...
Your money?
i would say that was our money
our money that the top 2 1/2% have been using to drain our retirement accounts speculating in the markets that hold our captive retirement dollars.
That makes that my money Kootch...
Your tax breaks steal money from me
and everyone else who has to pick up the slack so you can parrot "mine".
redblack
Member Profile
I have been a small business owner for over 30 years...paying bills, suppliers, shipping companies, labor, accountants,... I know EXACTLY what he has in mind.
i'm not going to ask your income. that really is none of my business, it's a rude question, and frankly, i don't care. i respect any anonymity you want to maintain, too.
fact: the top tax bracket is $250,000 per year, and taxes on that income are lower than they've ever been since the income tax began. yes?
simple question, yes or no: are you in the top tax bracket?
not revenue. not pass-through income. not any kind of diversion. you declare an amount in april. or january, if you are owed a refund. whether you fall above or below that line is my only question.
personal income. do you pay yourself enough - before any year-end bonuses - to fall into the top tax bracket?
oh, and regarding GM. GM was working on a cash basis for almost two years because they couldn't get credit. why couldn't they get credit?
GMAC.
who extended them credit so they could operate normally?
we did.
You must log in to post.
All contents copyright 2012, A Drink of Water and a Story Interactive. Here's how to contact us.
No photo reuse without permission.
Entries and comments feeds. ^Top^
westseattleblog
West Seattle Blog
West Seattle Blog