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Coyote Solutions

Started 7 months ago by kootchman
Latest reply from kootchman

kootchman
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Got a friend in the business.... he use two Catahoulas as the find dogs... and four American Bulldogs. He has cleaned out lots of neighborhoods back in NY and New England. The coyotes are bigger cause they cross bred with wolves..The "hoolas" do the finding and Bullies... well, they finish the job. Get a neighborhood group together... he charges $1500 per head. Good for cities who won't allow shooting in city limits.

Posted 7 months ago #
mehud7
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Just sickening

Posted 7 months ago #
hammerhead
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So basically it is a really expensive dog fight with really expensive purebred dogs. Oh well that is really good, for the American Bulldog as if we don't have enough issues with that type of breed looking bad.

FYI dog fights are illegal in Washington.

Ya know Koothman I usually like what you have to say. I also know coyotes kill cats, but that is the humans problem NOT the coyotes.

This is just really uncalled for, and if you did it just to make some noise well you did.

Posted 7 months ago #
chrisma
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ಠ_ಠ

Posted 7 months ago #
miws
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Coyote Solutions

Mike

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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As per the city who says they won't do anything... they are not dogs. They are "wildlife" The state uses Karelian bear dogs, and dogs are permitted for couger hunting by permit. police departments use dogs on humans? Jeesh get a grip. Before a child is attacked.. or before we start having poison baits set out which are indiscriminate killers..a trained, species specific catch dog team seems ok to me. You are a hoot ... your little tabbys are the largest source of native resident and migratory bird predation... their take in Seattle is in the tons... no one has yet to tame the prey instinct of felines...hmmm never mind...I was mistaken. wait til one grabs a Poopsieloopsie..or a child on the playground.

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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Once the population expands... they will pack up and hunt cooperatively..they don't in the wild because wolves will not tolerate the density and kill them..no wolves and they will pack and hunt in daylight.... the city is wrong as hell... the coyote is adaptive and does not remain "unafraid" of humans... quite the opposite. They should be ashamed of themselves to print that. This from the state of CA... the sequence of when coyotes become an increasing threat. Note CA says..active control keeps them wary and shy... exactly what Seattle says it won't do... Ditto Scottsdale AZ and Manatee County FL. As you go down the list.. see the trend? We are now at level 6 ....

This is from UC Davis, Para: Recognizing Problem Coyote
behavior TABLE1

call it a threat hirarchy....in ascending order. Coyotes are no longer a rare thing of nature. When ya take the kibbles and bits off the porch... the easy food sources... they HUNT for their protein... wait until this spring when they are whelping pups. See how bold they get... and the city says "yell at them"?

1 Increase in coyotes on streets and in yards at night

2 Increase in coyotes approaching adults and/or taking pets at night

3 Coyotes on streets, and in parks and yards, in early morning/late afternoon

4 Coyotes chasing or taking pets in daytime

5 Coyotes attacking and taking pets on leash or near owners; chasing joggers, bicyclists, other adults

6 Coyotes seen in and around children’s play areas, school grounds, and parks in midday

7 Coyotes acting aggressively toward adults in midday

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74135.html

Posted 7 months ago #
GenHillOne
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There's just a lot of wrong up there, Kootchman.

Posted 7 months ago #
sydney
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Actually for once Kootchman is right!

Posted 7 months ago #
velo_nut
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Nothing a bowl of Anti-freeze won't take care of... rogue neighbor cats, raccoons, Coyotes and the occasional Kujo.
.
Oh, and by the way, Coyote tastes nothing like chicken.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
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sydney...

kootch may be right about the current policy towards coyotes being doomed to failure...

though using cities in California to prove that hypothesis may be another apples to oranges scenario
;-> agricultural pun intended ;->
since very few urban areas in California have the extensive green spaces that we have here...
and when they do they tend to be the more well tended variety as opposed to the natural growth variety.

but his proposal to import dog packs ...
not such a good idea.

there is nothing to stop hunting dog packs from doing what hunting dog packs do...

the little known and well kept secret is that even well trained hunting dog packs are known to corner and kill unintended prey...

Posted 7 months ago #
hammerhead
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ok facts facts facts:

So we have Nicklesville with over 100 people and lots of other homeless people up in the green belt. Coyotes live up there too and I have never heard anything about coyotes going after any of the humans, not to say that can't happen.

Just as we will NEVER eradicate feral cats and again blame the humans on their outdoor cats for disappearing. We will NEVER eradicate coyotes.

If someone really wants to blow $1500.00 to kill a few coyotes great let them. Hell I can think of a homeless camp that could really use that kind of money right now.

As for the police using dogs on humans um the humans were probably doing something illegal. Coyotes aren't, they are just living here as they have for centuries.

Posted 7 months ago #
sydney
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Are coyotes forest animals now?

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
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sydeny..

coyotes are as much forest animals as they are urban dwellers.

our green spaces provide plenty of cover for coyote dens...

oh.. and they include more than a meadow or two..
well tended or not.

Posted 7 months ago #
sydney
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Well as much as I love animals, I know Coyote has kind of run the red fox out of town (by eating her) a testament to his relative newcomer status.

Posted 7 months ago #
funkietoo
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How about implementing a more humane approach? Trap-Neuter-Return-Ear Tip the coyotes. Once the 70% level of neutering is reached, the population growth stabilizes. Any neutering/spaying over the 70% mark results in the decrease of the population over time. The more we neuter over 70%, the quicker the decrease.

If coyotes are removed and killed, the remaining coyotes will increase breeding activity, and quickly refill the 'missing' coyotes slots. The killing method is not only inhumane, it is a short-term ‘fix’.

In regards to the statement, 'your little tabbies are the largest source of native resident and migratory bird predation'. Actually...we humans are the major source of bird predation. We just don't call it that...we call it 'property rights', job creation, etc. The pesticides and herbicides we use; development of green spaces to buildings (very negative effect on migratory birds/no place to rest); pollution of water sources, etc. All of this activity kills birds…picture in your mind…birds flying into tall buildings. That being said, my cats are indoor/secured outdoor enclosure only…for many reasons.

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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What California UC Davis said was... to keep coyotes "afraid" so they are not adaptive, use active control. Coyotes are skittish, shy, when they are prey, when gray wolves were reintroduced in Yellowstone,,the coyote population crashed to a more natural state.. estimated to be only 30 per cent of the pre-introduction population. When they are the top predator..they act like one. The get bolder. They attack instead of scavanging...Neuter em'? Fine.. the city won't do it. BTY... if they don't have an adequete breeding population...they will breed with feral dogs. When wolves were hunted almost to extinction, they bred with coyotes in the NE ... the result was... a larger coyote with canines 30 per cent larger ... and they have killed adult humans. Worse, is they breed with domestic dogs..

Quote:

Coyotes will sometimes mate with domestic dogs.The resulting hybrids, called coydogs, maintain the coyote's predatory nature, along with the dog's lack of timidity toward humans, making them a more serious threat to livestock than pure-blooded animals. This crossbreeding has the added effect of confusing the breeding cycle. Coyotes usually breed only once a year, while coydogs will breed year-round, producing many more pups than a wild coyote. READ THAT LAST SENTENCE CAREFULLY

... Good heavens people coyotes are not indigenous to wooded habitat...they don't belong here... they are here as an adaptive species... good on all of you for your "heart strings"... but I fear your empathy and hope for your enlightenment. What monster will you have when one cross breeds with a feral husky, German Shepard or pitbull...? A 40 lb. first grader will be a tasty treat. Wait til one runs out in front of you grabs the little tyke from the sand box and heads for the brush...while you stand there horrified and not able to do a damn thing. Funkietoo you have some very very wrong assumptions.

Data from USDA Wildlife Services, the California Department of Fish & Game, and other sources show that while 41 attacks occurred during the period of 1988–1997, 48 attacks were verified from 1998 through 2003. The majority of these incidents occurred in Southern California near the suburban-wildland interface.

JoB you are dead wrong... the coyotes natural habitat is NOT woodland...or urban areas..and they have NOT lived here for centuries either..they are a new introduction..in heir natural habitat. they will den near open meadows in fringe forest where they have access to voles, prarie dogs, rabbits, etc... and can escape wolves. NW woods as any hunter will tell you, are actually not good game reserves for ground herbivores and rodents.. there are not enough ground species of prey who munch on grasses. BUT..adapt they will...

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

sydney.... having hunted boar, bear, with trained dogs... they are scent trained for specific prey. They are not "turned" loose until the find dogs, (coonhounds, redbones, catahoulas, beagles, etc) tree or bay they are on scent. The capture dogs.. mostly American Bulldogs or Southern Whites, are let loose for the capture and then leashed. They will ignore deer, antelope, squirrels, rabbits etc... when on a hunt. Not very many big game hunters here I see.

Posted 7 months ago #
sydney
Member Profile

I don't hunt because I'm too busy. If I had time or someone in the family who still liked to hunt I'd go for venison, because I love it, and I know as a prey species the deer are pretty successful at population increase. In some areas they are too successful and starve.

But I'm not the one...if any...who mentioned dogs.

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kootch...

"they will den near open meadows in fringe forest where they have access to voles, prarie dogs, rabbits, etc"

you do realize that most of our greenspaces are little more than fringe forest, don't you?

sydney...

the demise of the red fox bothers me too

it is clear that the coyote population is out of balance..

in spite of what kootch calls my "heart strings" I don't think there are any easy answers.

****

what i do know...

indoor cats don't become coyote food
and
contained dogs don't mate with coyotes creating hybrids...

Posted 7 months ago #
sydney
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I agree with funkie's approach!

Posted 7 months ago #
datamuse
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The last time this topic came up I recall coming across some research that concluded that a major factor contributing to the rise in coyote populations and expansion of range in North America was the decrease of the gray wolf population. Coyotes moved into that niche and continued expanding from there.

At the time, I suggested that the clear solution was to release gray wolves in West Seattle. Hey, it's no weirder than what Kootch is proposing. :D

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

datamuse...

although i am a strong proponent of balanced ecosystems...
the though of grey wolves roaming our streets at night gives me pause.
perhaps we could add some bears to deal with the wolves?

;->

i love that grin thing you do but can't figure out how to do that. I must be missing something again:(
i am socially challenged when it comes to these things ...and not just because i am old
i have always been this way:(

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

sydney...yep.. the wolf was a key species... hence the deer population explosion... and fewer hunters.

Yes JoB I do...however, it is adaptive coyote populations..they prefer access to prairie .. only OUR presence here makes this attractive habitat. There are feral dogs..lots of em..and dogs do escape. Most people do not keep cats indoors all day...

datamuse... I don't think there is enough big game for wolves..unless you include goats, ... a pack of 8-12 wolves ... that's a lot of game...a deer a day ....

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
Member Profile

kootch...

i don't know what world you live in...

"Most people do not keep cats indoors all day..."

but yes, they do.
they even build kittie condo ourdoor wire enclosures to allow their sweet little friends safe outdoor access.

some people even train their cats to walk on collar.

imagine that!

as for those feral dogs you mention...

i think they are more the result of owners turning loose animals they no longer want to assume responsibility for than escapes :(

but you keep that fantasy world of yours going
it amuses me.

Posted 7 months ago #
2 Much Whine
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I am just amazed that Kootch has so many opinions about so many things and is so adept at using Google that he can pull facts and figures together to make it appear that he is at least somewhat knowledgeable on the subjects he chooses to discuss. I am just happy that I don't have the desire to have an opinion (at least not enough of an opinion to bang out words on a keyboard) about a lot of things that Kootch feels the need to share. Life is so much easier that way. I do applaud anyone that has the bandwidth to be a subject matter expert on all things political, animal, vegetable and mineral. . . .

Posted 7 months ago #
funkietoo
Member Profile

Hey Kootch...thanks for letting me know that my research, information and experience is based solely on my own, obviously delusional...asummptions.
['Funkietoo you have some very very wrong assumptions.']

It is comforting to know that you have my back.

Posted 7 months ago #
goodgraces
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This is one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever read on the WSB. What a waste of time.

Posted 7 months ago #
datamuse
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JoB: it's just a capital d, like so: :D

Goodgraces, I think you just described a lot of the Internet with that statement...

Posted 7 months ago #
JoB
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datamuse...

thanks
a nap clued me in
i could see what i was missing

isn't it wonderful that my brain recharges like that?
wish my body did:(

Now.. weren't we discussing world peace or something?

Posted 7 months ago #
anonyme
Member Profile

2muchwhine, you nailed it. The only thing missing in this eruption of fantasy data is chupacabras.

Posted 7 months ago #
GenHillOne
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Yes! "I do applaud anyone that has the bandwidth to be a subject matter expert on all things political, animal, vegetable and mineral. . . " I too love those who have been everywhere, done everything, and know all! God knows we can learn so much from them ;)
-
I also love when being "native" becomes the argument for a living being's worthiness. Appropriate timing since it's almost Columbus Day. I'm thinking 99% of us should be listening for hunting dogs! Certainly can't find another creature that's had more negative impact on its surroundings.

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Dogs have been human companions and protectors for 35,000 plus years. Either way, the city is not making an attempt to capture, sterlize, kill, hunt coyotes... we will live with the results. Other states, other localities who waited are dealing with it now...not a bad idea to learn from others.

Posted 7 months ago #
Gina
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Wouldn't roadrunners work better?

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
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beep beep...

Posted 7 months ago #
kootchman
Member Profile

Well now we have coyotes going nose to nose with no fear of human contact. Now, this spring, when they have a calorie load five times normal... as they whelp pups. Watch the toddlers closely. I guess we await the inevitable... and can attend the mayors press conference.

Posted 6 months ago #

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