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children in public places

Started 1 year ago by maude
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maude
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Starting my own thread so I don't get accused of threadjacking....

I remember way back when...my family would go out for dinner. Parents would drop the four kids in the restaurant and they'd head to the cocktail lounge. We'd sit there and eat our dinner and bug no one. If we caused problems, no matter how slight, we'd get our butts beat. So we minded our p's and q's.

A few years ago we discussed having children. We decided against it. I'm just too selfish to have them. Plus I've decided that I don't really like them all that much. I don't know what to do with them. Why can't they just sit down and watch a show? If I squirmed around that much while my dad was watching his Hogan's Heroes well, there's another butt beating.

And when we go out to public places I mostly ignore the children that might be in the establishment. Unless they are screeching their heads off. And I totally understand how a parent can tune that out. Anyone recall yelling, "mom...mom....mom.....mom" for 25 minutes before she screams? No? Just me? But when they start screeching that's about the time I want to go over to them and screech right back. But I don't. But I want to.

The question then: Should I notify the parents that the kid is bugging me? Should I become somehow equally obnoxious? Should I shut it out and enjoy the people I went there with instead of focusing on a brat/oblivious parents? Hard to do after a beer or two. :)

Posted 1 year ago #
beachdrivegirl
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I don't have children yet myself and I have never thought of complaining to management or complaining to a parent about misbehaving children. I make a note of it and might make a commit to my husband, friend, or whoever is with me but I don't think it is my place to step in and say anything. If it gets to be a repeat problem at the same establishment I just don't go there anymore. Just like I choose not to go to bars that have a habit of over serving everyone there because I don't enjoy being around a bunch of sloppy drunks. (Personally I would take a kid any day over that. :)). I do ALWAYS say something to those families that had well behaved kids at a restaurant, flight, or coffee shop. It is my thought that positive reenforcement goes a lot farther than anger, threats, or any other type of negative reenforcement.

Posted 1 year ago #
maplesyrup
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Wouldn't it depend on the type of place?

Like if I went to a beachfront restaurant on a summer afternoon/evening, I'd expect to see a lot of kids and adjust my expectations accordingly.

Or if I went to an expensive steakhouse for dinner I'd probably say something to the waiter if a kid was running around or being excessively noisy. Not in a rude way of course.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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I already ♥ this thread, and it's barely just been born.

Would never dream
of hijacking it
just yet

Posted 1 year ago #
maude
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maplesyrup, absolutely, it depends on the establishment. If I were to wander into a Chuck E. Cheese's then I'm in their territory. Screech till your hearts content.

I guess restaurants are middle ground. If kids are there I try my best to ignore them. But I get distracted easily.

Over 21 establishments are a safe bet, though I've been to a certain tav near Home Depot where I've seen some infantile behavior. :) Still love it though.

I think it really depends on my mood. I normally like a quieter place to enjoy food, beer and conversation so if the noise is coming from a toddler, juke box, or drunk guy at the end of the bar, I'll likely not have positive things to say about the experience.

But I'm wishy-washy too. I could go back to a noisy place the very next night and have a great time. I'm just hard to please. But beer makes it easier.

Posted 1 year ago #
KBear
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This thread is already about children misbehaving in restaurants! I wonder where the threadjackers will take it...

Posted 1 year ago #
maude
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Oh KBear, the next logical step would be dogs in public places.

Posted 1 year ago #
jwws
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My dogs are my children ;-)

Posted 1 year ago #
maude
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My dogs are my children too. But they aren't well behaved and I know better than take them to a restaurant. :)

Posted 1 year ago #
bluebird
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I choose to eat in robot only establishments. Pre-programmed to behave exactly as I have decided they should. I always know that the littlest ones will never do anything unexpected that I disprove of, and the larger ones can't overindulge becoming loud or obnoxious. There are no variables. The world revolves around me, as it should. And as predicted, each and every meal is absolutely perfect.

Posted 1 year ago #
bluebird
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But really I just sigh extremely loud, roll my eyes, and give the parents the death glare.

Posted 1 year ago #
RarelyEver
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This is from a mother of a teenager - there is absolutely no reason any child should ever disbehave (or show bad manners) in a public place. I understand that every child is different, and that there are a billion ways to raise your kid, but unless the child cannot control his/her behavior due to physical or mental impairments it is the parents' responsibility to teach proper behavior and/or discipline their offspring if proper behavior is not displayed, especially in public.

Personal observation makes me think that the majority of parents who have unruly children dislike disciplining them because they equate discipline with a whitholding of love. This is untrue; in fact, studies have shown over and over that a child growing up without defined borders and rules is an unhappy child. Children need "lines in the sand" to feel secure. If their parents are amiss drawing those lines children will act out, bad behavior and attitude ensue, and you are raising an unhappy child with no sense of place or security.

This may sound harsh, but if I see you in public with your offspring and you are not in control of the situation, you are only a small step short of a child abuser in my eyes. If you're unsure about how to raise a happy and contented child, there's plenty of information out there you can read up on. Or talk to your pediatrician. Or seek advise from a parent whose kids seem to be well-adjusted.

I know this can go both ways, and I get worried when I see a family out and about, and the children look like drones; afraid to talk, afraid to look me in the eye, afraid to display any child-like behavior at all. Children need to have room to play, to explore their world, to ask a million questions - however, please consider time and place.

Jus' my 2 cents worth.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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Here's why people need ediditors:

Parents would drop the four kids in the restaurant and they'd head to the cocktail lounge.

In the sentence above, the pronoun they follows two nouns, either of which could be its legitimate father. It follows the noun kids most closely, however, so in this case, the child would seem to be the father of both the man and the woman.

In other words, it is easy to misread this sentence as meaning that it was the kids (not the parents) who headed to the cocktail lounge . . .

An amusing thought, isn't it? And perhaps it's what maude really meant. But I doubt it.

This grammatical misstep goes by various names, but I like to call it "pronoun confusion." Fortunately, this confusion can be easily cured, either by just losing the befuddled pronoun, comme ça:

Parents would drop the kids off in the restaurant and head to the cocktail lounge.

—or by rewording in any of various ways to clarify just what or whom that pronoun ("they") refers to, comme ça:

Parents would drop the kids off in the restaurant. Then they'd head to the cocktail lounge.

Please don't misundertake me; I don't feel that Mlle. maude has dealt some grievous hurt to the English language. Pronoun confusion is among the easiest- and oftenest-to-make of boo boos. Everyone does it now and then.

As a matter of fact, I think that maude's a perfectly good writer, and I'm merely using this one sentence of hers as an opportunity to point out that I'm even gooder.

Shamelessly Yours,

DP_Editor at Comcast.net

Posted 1 year ago #
csw2119
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Maude, you are not selfish!!! You are smart. I too chose to not have children, but I love well behaved kids. The problem is most people have no business having kids. Kids require unending commitment/time which most couples don't have if they both work.

Posted 1 year ago #
KBear
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"Parents would drop the four kids in the restaurant and they'd head to the cocktail lounge."

...for the Toddler-Friendly Happy Hour.

Posted 1 year ago #
pixel pusher
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Don't you think the parents already know that their screeching children are annoying the people around them? What good does it do to inform them of your annoyance? It won't make the kid stop.

And maybe you need to realize that you are in a public place and that maybe there will be people/kids that annoy you. If you don't want to put up with annoying people/kids, I suggest you don't go out.

And I don't think I need to tell you that beating kids is no longer an acceptable form of punishment, so us parents have to be much more creative in disciplining our kids.

Posted 1 year ago #
jwws
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DP and KBear,

Have I told you I love you lately?

Posted 1 year ago #
maude
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Many college professors have told me the very same thing about my writing. I like to mix tenses too, often in the same sentence. Spelling used to be my forte, going to the district spelling bee's several times in grade school. Apostrophes still trip me up, as do commas. And I can go on and on and on in one paragraph about many, many things. Though I'm being pretty restrained today, what I need most often is a censor. Also, I would like a list of the robot restaurants. They sound like a hoot!

Posted 1 year ago #
mirabile
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A couple walks into a restaurant...

Maitre d': Ah, welcome to Chez Chez. Will there be two of you this evening?

Couple: Yes, two please.

Maitre d': Excellent. Will that be children or non?

Couple: Non-children.

Maitre d' (consulting his list): Ah, I'm so sorry but our non-children section is completely full. We do have a table open in the children section though...

Couple (without hesitation): We'll wait.

Posted 1 year ago #
bluebird
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Maude, I'm going to guess any place that has the pleasure of your patronage, would be a hoot.

Posted 1 year ago #
KBear
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"Spelling used to be my forte, going to the district spelling bee's several times in grade school. Apostrophes still trip me up..."

Hilarious.

Posted 1 year ago #
maude
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My parents fall into that category of people who never should have had children. I love my parents and their form of discipline was accepted back in the day. But taking your kids to the tavern and leaving the kids in the car for an hour (or however long it takes you to have a few beers) isn't model parenting. If I were in the same situation I might be resentful of having to do the right thing (not leave my kids in the tavern parking lot) when I really want to have a beer with grownups. And my mom was a stay-at-home mom. So she had to hear us fight and bicker all day long. Can't really fault her for wanting to get away from that.

Pixel pusher: I don't think I accused parents of not caring. I did say that I understand how parents can tune it out. I'm not around kids that much so I haven't honed that skill.

Posted 1 year ago #
KBear
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"Don't you think the parents already know that their screeching children are annoying the people around them? What good does it do to inform them of your annoyance? It won't make the kid stop."

Well, if the parents are obviously trying to do something about it, then I'd mind my own business. But if the parents are just sitting there allowing it to happen, I'd have to assume they're unaware that it's bothering other people. And if there's nothing the parents can do to make it stop, then they should take their children home. The children may ruin the parents' night out, but the parents have no right to allow them to ruin other peoples' night out.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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KBear..
well said.

Posted 1 year ago #
lucky chick
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My kids are my dogs.

Posted 1 year ago #
pixel pusher
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Maude, I don't think I accused you of accusing parents of not caring.

KBear, it's easy to think that the parents are not aware of the situation if it looks like they are not responding to the kids screams. Several modern parenting techniques put emphasis on rewarding good behavior and ignoring/redirecting bad behavior. So maybe give them a few minutes to work it out before making you annoyance known. If it goes on for an unreasonable amount of time, then I think you are justified to make your feelings known.

Up until a few years ago, I was in the same group as you. But now that I have a daughter, I see it from the other side and I tend to be a bit more lenient towards parents with screaming kids. It's not a fun or easy situation to deal with and can cause a great deal of stress.

Most parents are not out to ruin your evening, we just need to get out once in a while and hope that we can do so with as little headache as possible.

Posted 1 year ago #
maude
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I must've read an accusatory tone.

But I'm convinced, now more than ever, that parents have formed some sort of cabal to ruin the evenings of those unafflicted by children! I'm on to you, pixel pusher!

Posted 1 year ago #
jwws
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lucky chick,

Are they off leash kids? Do you scoop up after them or just let them run wild and, well you know!

Posted 1 year ago #
pixel pusher
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Okay, okay. Cats out of the bag. We do actually try to ruin the lives of the unafflicted. And if it seems like the parents don't care, it's true. It's all about getting a temporary reprieve from the hellhole dungeon they call a home!!!

Our goal is simply to spread the pain and misery!

Posted 1 year ago #
KBear
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JoB: I always try to speak well, even when I'm wrong.

Pixel Pusher:
By the time I've decided I must say something, the parents have already had ample time to work things out. And while the passive technique you mention may be effective in some circumstances, it is not the appropriate tool when kids are throwing a tantrum in a restaurant. When I am dining out, I am there to enjoy myself while spending my hard-earned money. You have as much right to enjoy your dinner as I do, but no one has the right to behave in an unreasonable way so as to annoy other diners. I am not there to be a guinea pig for your parenting techniques. If you cannot make your kids settle down, you need to take them home.

Posted 1 year ago #
lucky chick
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They have a little swinging door to the backyard. We trained them to poo in one corner of the yard. We never take them to restaurants - some people are allergic and some just don't like the smell.

Posted 1 year ago #
beachdrivegirl
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I also don't appreciate adults that act like children in public places and believe they should have learned by now and won't say anything to them either.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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i will

Posted 1 year ago #
pixel pusher
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Sorry KBear, but with kids, it's all about consistency. So I don't care if it's at the mall, in a restaurant or on a bus, I will use whatever parenting technique I choose and I will certainly not be concerned about how it affects you.

My money is hard earned too and like it or not, when you go out in public you will encounter people and things that annoy or frustrate you. That doesn't mean that everyone and everything should change to suit your needs.

And one thing that certainly will not change is how I choose to be a parent to my child.

Posted 1 year ago #
SarahScoot
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"That doesn't mean that everyone and everything should change to suit your needs."
Please tell me you see the hypocrisy in that statement when contrasted with your previous statement, "So I don't care if it's at the mall, in a restaurant or on a bus, I will use whatever parenting technique I choose and I will certainly not be concerned about how it affects you."
You expect everyone to adjust to your parenting needs (by accommodating your screaming and disruptive child), but no one has a right to ask you to consider their needs?
I really hope you're just being contrary for entertainment, because I have a hard time believing anyone would be so unaware of his/her own selfishness.

Posted 1 year ago #
angelescrest
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Worse yet--talking about hard-earned money.
We've got kids. So we hire a babysitter to go out for a great meal, only to have to hear someone else's illy behaved kids. I would never put someone else through that annoyance.

Posted 1 year ago #
miws
Member Profile

Different people are going to have different tolerances of kids in restaurants in general.

Of course one should expect a Chuckie Cheese's or similar themed restaurant to be noisy and rowdy, and a fast food joint to be not quite as bad as that, but with some level of kids being a bit on the loud and active side.

In your average sit down restaurant though, there are going to be those people that the moment they spot a child, even if the kid is sitting still, and perfectly behaved, are going to perhaps glare at the parents, or mumble something negative.

As far as fussy/rowdy kids in that type of restaurant there will likely be a much larger number of people annoyed, than in the curmudgeon v. quiet kid scenario above, but there will also be some that it doesn't faze at all.

All that being said, I think one of the main concerns on the other thread was safety, when there are one or more kids running around the dining room. Both for the kid, and for the servers and even other customers.

There could be severe consequences for someone with mobility issues trying to dodge a running kid, or if the kid comes running up from behind and bumps into them, knocking them over. Especially with an older person, that may have issues with brittle bones.

Also, an issue of possibly tripping a server, who might be carrying something extremely hot, like soup or coffee that could scald the kid or the server, or even get splashed onto a nearby customer.

Even if the food isn't scalding hot, nobody is going to want to have it dumped all over them, and the customers the food was on it's way to, are not going to appreciate having to wait for a do over, especially if it's something that's takes awhile to prepare.

And, I kinda hate to say it, but the cynical part of me tends to believe that in such a scenario where hot food injures somebody, it would be the parents of the kid that caused the incident, that would be the first to sue, should their kid be injured.

Mike

Posted 1 year ago #
squareeyes
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I, too, would like to hang out at a robot only establishment. I bet it's a great place to meet hardbodies.

Posted 1 year ago #
cwit
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I'm finding it really offensive how you are portraying robots as well behaved. They're not all well behaved. Have you not seen '2001' or 'Short Circuit'?!

I would not have my kids dine around those riff raffs.

Posted 1 year ago #
metrognome
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I just order pizza to be delivered; that way when my inner two-year-old acts up, I can lock him in the soundproofed bedroom and he can scream all he wants without bothering anyone.

Posted 1 year ago #
hammerhead
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Maude, I am with you, I don't breed, I personally have better things to do.

I basically give the parents the evil eye, and if the kids look at me I give it to them too. If they are old enough they get it. I have asked several times to be moved to a different area of the restaurant which is fine.

What is worse, when the kids throw food on the floor and the parents DON"T pick it up. Like it is a free for all because some one else is going to pick it up. You better tip the waiter well.

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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mg: you have issues.

kidding!

Posted 1 year ago #
tanyar23
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I feel bad when my chupacabra misbehaves at the restaurant.

Posted 1 year ago #
mpento
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_0bhT98g9Y

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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establishments like elliott bay brewing are doing a booming business catering to breeders. good on them. they can have all of the shoulder-to-shoulder viruses that they can stand.

as a childless-by-choice adult, i prefer not to patronize them - or any other bar/restaurant - when the breeders are satisfying their needs. and, fortunately for me, feeding hours are limited to their progeny's waking hours. and we non-breeding drinkers have plenty of refuge in west seattle from the profligacy of humanity.

having said that, i don't prefer to hang around adult humans that much, either.

Posted 1 year ago #
KBear
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"I feel bad when my chupacabra misbehaves at the restaurant."

Yeah. Like when your kid goes, "Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!! Waaaaaahhhh!!!"

What my Chupacabra hears is "Eat Me!! I'm tasty!!"

Posted 1 year ago #
metrognome
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redblack -- you have no idea ... I went to Catholic schools and was taught by Holy Names nuns and Jesuit priests ...

pixel pusher -- I can only hope that you mean you actually try to control your children; otherwise, if you sit by and allow your children to be out of control and do whatever they want in a public place and disrupt people who are paying for a (nice) meal, your response is a classic definition of narcissism. Same goes for dog owners (oops, now I've put my foot in it ...)

Posted 1 year ago #
Zenguy
Member Profile

Your frustration is misplaced. The misbehavior of the children is not the childs fault, children will push things as far as they are allowed to get away with it. Who decides where the boundary line is? The parents. Parents need to step up to the plate and be responsible, be willing to leave anywhere at anytime to keep a sense of consistency for their children. Just because the parents are used to tuning their children out does not mean the rest of us are. I remember having to "ask" to leave the table...why has that disappeared? I agree if you are at a Chucky Cheese you are in a different realm, but should children not be well behaved everywhere? I have a great dog that has boundaries, is well behaved, loves everyone and every dog, people always seem "amazed".

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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mpento...

i am betting that add is effective

Posted 1 year ago #
josie2006
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I just wanted to offer some tips, from a parent of a 1 and a 4 year old. We love to go out to eat and won't give it up, but are also very conscious of disturbing others. So here goes:
1. Pick kid friendly places. Sounds obvious, I know. But just a reminder anyway. Just because you heart La Rustica does not mean it's the right place for a toddler. Though we did go with a newborn twice (in a sling) and he slept the whole time. This is risky though so I'm not necessarily recommending it.
2. Go early. Kids are less cranky, others are more understanding.
3. Make sure the kids are hungry. Bring light snacks or order bread to tide them over if needed until the food arrives.
4. Order as soon as the server comes to your table. This means knowing what you want beforehand. Don't waste time, you no longer have the luxury of a leisurely dinner. You have kids.
5. When the food arrives, your kids will be done before you are, especially if the server brings their food first, which often happens. They think they're doing you a favor but they're really just ensuring the kids will be full, happy and ready to go just as your dinner arrives. I find this annoying unless I asked for the kid's food first. Anyway, if this happens, order ice cream. This will buy you 5 minutes to eat your dinner.
6. Ask for the bill when your food arrives and pay while you're still eating. Nothing worse than having to wait for that when everyone is ready to go.
7. We always have some small table toys with us - mini slinky, small board books, or those cheap plastic fast food toys. Precious quiet time can be bought with these.
8. If your child melts down, you must take them outside. If they don't calm down, you must get your food to go and call it a night. That is what you must do. Same goes if they're out of their seats bothering others (I.e. more than 2 feet from their chair). It's just not ok.

Those without kids will feel validated in that choice after reading this, I'm sure. We still have fun though! And our kids do know how to behave in a restaurant, because they get plenty of practice.

Posted 1 year ago #