Jiggers
Member Profile
I'm sure you guys already know about this. I quit them two and half years ago over customer service. What amazes me is how stupid people are to stay with them. BofA isn't going to worry about losing a few dozen customers.. See the light.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2016361777_debitfee30.html
GoGo
Member Profile
This "stupid" person is now kicking them to the curb. I stayed because it was easier to pay my rent (transfer from one acct to another) but I've moved and now don't need that.
They are going to charge the little guy to use their debit cards, but not the wealthier customers. They can kiss my you-know-what!!!
They will all soon follow suit thanks to Dodd-Frank-Durbin.....
yeah wells fargo is doing $3.00 per card that is $15.00 a month. while a write off, still pisses me off. Might have to go back to carrying cash.
I just can not use credit unions type banks.
Smitty is correct. Its the Dodd - Frank act at work. What's ammusing is there was a senator from Illinois I think complaining that Bank of America did this. Who for a second thought they wouldn't? It goes back to the old thought that if you force a company to lose revenue one place either subsidy or restricting revenue they will make it up someplace else.
They should have just stayed the hell out of the banks business and let them charge the fees they did and people could choose to bank with them or not. I bet BofA nets to the same revenues.
If you want to avoid the fee then open a Merril Lynch account with them to invest a little money then you don't pay the fee.
Jiggers
Member Profile
It must have been Countrywides fault...
I've heard a few people say they can't use credit unions. Why not?
They upped the price to at the ATM for people who aren't members of the bank. We were at the farmers market and went to use the BOA machine because it's convenient and they are now charging $4 for non member cards. Yikes.
I bet the CEO's Annual bonus goes up too along with all of the other Executives at BOA. It's amazing how all the BIG Businesses in the U.S. cry about how the Economy is hurting them and more fees or cuts are necessary, yet at the same time CEO bonuses and Executive bonuses are at an outrageous amount and they get rewarded for these clever ideas. Gee, I guess they wouldn't need the fees if all the Executives just took large pay cuts and did without multi-million dollar bonuses.
If they took large pay cuts and forfeited the bonuses they wouldn't want to do the jobs. Not only that but you wouldn't be able to find qualified people to do it. Believe it or not the oversight and banking regulations have made being a CEO in that market very risky. You risk being sued or going to jail if you screw things up.
Really Bostonman?? The risk isn't that great. These Fat Cat CEO's jump from Corporation to Corporation just long enough to collect their huge multi-million dollar packages. Just check out the artical about Ford and it's CEO, ex-Boeing executive Alan Mulally:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2016338711_apusautoscontracttalksford.html
The man makes $1.4 million a year in salary and received a $26.4 mil package and won't give raises to the workers....I mean how much do these guys really need to make or is it that we just pay the ridiculous fees and sticker prices for items that allow these companies to reap astronomical profits? If companies can hand out such large amounts of money to Executives, isn't that saying that we are all paying way too much for whatever they are selling/providing us?
Jiggers
Member Profile
here we go,...
Bostonman: When was the last time that any CEO went to jail or got sued for screwing something up? They actually get a Golden Parachute for leaving quietly. If your statement were true about bank CEO's then why haven't we seen any of them go to jail for screwing up the housing/mortgage market disaster??? The WAMU executives were left off the hook as were most if not all the New York/Wall street bankers and brokers. So really, how much risk is there? Collect millions or even billions of dollars and suffer through some PR media outfall and then move on to the next company to collect more bonuses...seems a little price to pay.
What happened with Enron? Those guys certainly didn't get a golden parachute. I am a CFO and me and my CEO both have to sign documents for each audit regarding the accuracy of the financial statements. Guess who gets the blame if something happens, guess what that does to my ability to get another job as a CFO.
Its certainly not worth $80k a year to me to assume that risk. So, unless you can do the job you shouldn't make assumptions of what the job is worth. I bear the risk with my company so I should reap the rewards.
"When was the last time that any CEO went to jail or got sued for screwing something up? They actually get a Golden Parachute for leaving quietly. If your statement were true about bank CEO's then why haven't we seen any of them go to jail for screwing up the housing/mortgage market disaster???"
Oh no, another Michael Moron parrot. Why not head to Wall Street for the little sleep in?
Congress created the mortgage mess by forcing banks to lend to those not credit worthy.
Bostonman, B of A is losing revenue? Show me where they're operating in the red...oh, please...
I didn't say they were making a profit. Who said that? I mentioned revenues, not net income. BofA has been selling some of its assets to raise the capital it needs to try and rebuild the base. The stock is dirt cheap right now and I bought a bunch the other day. We will see if it pays off in a year or so.
Anyways, I am out for the weekend to go camping. Hope you all have a fabulous weekend.
Bostonman...
can you explain to me why a company that charges anyone who uses their cash machines a fee
and charges all vendors who accept their debit cards a fee
needs to charge another fee to it's customers for the convenience of carrying their debit card?
you blame that on the Dodd - Frank act?
Fees like these were the reason for the Dodd - Frank act...
which btw obviously didn't cover enough
I generally don't like to jump into political or pseudo-political discussions, but can't help myself with this one.
The reason increased regulations on businesses such as banking are passed is because these businesses are abusing consumers. Of course these businesses can find other ways to abuse consumers, but it is absurd to blame the regulation for the "creativity" of a company such as BoA in finding new ways to ensure that they get their profits -- without reforming to become truly efficient, cost effective, and pro-consumer. There are banks vying for our business with cost-effective and pro-consumer services. No matter how much legislators try to level the playing field on behalf of consumers, the only clout we really have is by being more aggressive shoppers for services such as banking.
The cut in swipe fees was going to cost BOA about 2 billion annually in fees. The new debit card fees will net them about 3 billion. And it's not like they were losing money to begin with. So now they're trying to blame the government for taking in an additional billion dollars a year by charging people to use their own money. So no, I don't blame Dodd-Frank. I blame Bank of America. The greed just never stops. Screw 'em.
Join a credit union. I've seen a couple of mentions that people can't - then at least move your accounts to a local bank and just pay cash.
Bostonman.. I DO know a CEO, and CFO who got millions in parachute money.... after cooking the books so smoking hot... I believe the name of that CEO was Franklin Raines... but be proud..he is one of us... a Seattlite..bout' time a N'wester got a little scandal face... Texas, NY, and LA sure have been monopolizing the trough.
I don't like the fee... but if i stuff a couple hundred in the old front pocket on Monday..damn if hasn't disappeared by mid-week.... for all of you that can hold on to cash... my admiration goes out to you. I swipe for self preservation.. I will eat the $5...... they will scramble to dump those fees in lieu of having the expense of processing checks
yep, dusting off the ol' checkbook until Umpqua Bank opens (they're across the street from me - lol)
BOA constrictor tightens its ugly grip.
There are alternatives
they are called local banks and credit unions
i don't know about the local banks
but a lot of credit unions have something they call shared access
that means you can access your money just about anywhere
i accessed my Oregon credit union at a teacher's credit union in Minnesota for 3+ years before moving back here where they have a local office :)
redblack
Member Profile
smitty:
Oh no, another Michael Moron parrot. Why not head to Wall Street for the little sleep in?
what, are you going for the mr. citizenship 2011 award?
Congress created the mortgage mess by forcing banks to lend to those not credit worthy.
oh. i see you're going for comedian of the year.
redblack
Member Profile
want to defend b of a? want to blame dodd-frank? give it your best shot.
but you'd better read this first:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20110930,0,2342996.column
Do the math: BofA has 57 million consumer and small-business accounts. If a majority of them uses debit cards, we're talking a windfall of about $3 billion a year — or $1 billion more than BofA is currently making from transaction fees.
putting a cap on the transaction fee is only reducing b of a's revenue, not its profits. b of a is retaliating nonetheless.
see, the fact is that corporations in america really pay no taxes. ever. they never have. because every time congress makes them cough up coin, they raise prices and pass it on to the consumer.
the best thing we can do to hit them back is bank locally and divest from wall street.
what's not being discussed....before B of A came out with the debit card charges, they sent out a letter to us people who bank there. Beginning in October (but deferred until the end of the year, so they can claim they gave you 2-3 "free" months) they will be starting fees for having a checking account. Becuase I am not a well-heeled patron of the bank, have a small checking account, my fees will be...$12/month. Add that to the debit card fee? $17 a month....simply to keep my money there. Yes, there are ways to avoid the fee...keep a balance always of $1500.00 in your account - yeah, sure. Or have a direct deposit. I am self-employed..now how do I do that? I directly deposit on a weekly basis - lol..but I don't get a pay check. Yes, folks, the little people taking it in the shorts once again...and then there's this from this past January..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/31/AR2011013105314.html
is it any wonder we're effing cynical?
Bostonman: What happened to the Enron theives? Well, not much. A couple of guys got 24 months and $125,000 fine. Wow..compared to what damage they did it's a drop within a drop in the bucket:
ENRON Scandal Summary: Losses and Consequences
Due to the actions of the ENRON executives, the ENRON Company went bankrupt. The loss sustained by investors exceeded $70 billion. Furthermore, these actions cost both trustees and employees upwards of $2 billion; this total is considered to be a result of misappropriated investments, pension funds, stock options, and savings plans – as a result of the government regulation and the limited liability status of the ENRON Corporation, only a small amount of the money lost was ever returned.
== Like I thought, all top executives think alike: "I bear the risk with my company so I should reap the rewards" (your words). So, screw the employees who do a lot of the hard work and anyone else that should get in your way. You're all the same and you truly believe that your multi-million dollar bonuses are justified.
In regards to the BOA card fee...It's not "costing" BOA $2 billion. The word "cost" in this matter is referring to the fact that they are losing $2 billion from the $6 billion they get now. With the new regulation they would still get $4 billion, but of course they want you to believe they are incurring actual losses, when they are actually still making a $4bil profit.
redblack
Member Profile
klause nailed it in post 29. well-said.
Bank Execs Try to Justify Outrageous Pay--Again:
http://www.bnet.com/blog/business-news/bank-execs-try-to-justify-outrageous-pay-again/4095
http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/CEOsOverpaid.htm
From Post #26:
see, the fact is that corporations in america really pay no taxes. ever. they never have. because every time congress makes them cough up coin, they raise prices and pass it on to the consumer.
the best thing we can do to hit them back is bank locally and divest from wall street.
redblack, mon frère, I heartily endorse your conclusion here, even while calumniating your argument.
In fact, it is not within the purview of the public to know (or care) how a company sets its price structure since, under our capitalist system, a corporation may raise its prices for any reason it wants to. Or no reason at all.
Therefore, the question we should be asking in re corporations is not how they set their prices but rather A) are they complying with the law? and B) do we, as consumers, want to do business with them?
Note that we may choose to do business (or not) with a company for a variety of reasons, including ethical ones.
But to say that corporations don't really pay taxes because they can just pass all the costs onto consumers is a stretch.
Remember that whenever a corporation raises prices, it puts itself at a competitive disadvantage in relation to its competitors, who may then steal away its customers. Happily, that is just what we're seeing with the big banks, as evidenced by numerous threads on this forum.
It happens comme ça:
1) Refusing to take a hit to the pocketbook, BoA and Chase raise their fees to cover taxes and regulatory costs.
2) Customers leave in droves for smaller banks and credit unions.
3) BoA and Chase lose even MORE money than if they had taken their lumps like a man.
So you see? Capitalism can still be a beautiful thing. —When it works as intended.
In a way I agree with what DP said. They are a for profit corporation. They can charge whatever they want. If you don't like it go to the competition. My point is when the government steps in and trys to limit the revenues of a for profit corporation they will always find a way to supplement that revenue either through increasing the cost of a service and passing it through to the customer. They will never take it in the bottom line. Nor do I think they should.
Once those small banks see what is happening to their cost structure from all these people switching bank accounts they will also raise fees. They may not add a debit card fee but they will do something.
Not only the risk Klause but also the knowledge. Like I said, if my job was so easy and my boss could find someone to do it for half the pay he would. But my job isn't easy and it requires a lot of industry knowledge and smart decision making. Of course, I am not getting million dollar bonuses but what I say is still true. I get a chuckle out of people who don't have to do my job when they sit around and tell me how much money I should make.
miws
Member Profile
"http://www.bnet.com/blog/business-news/bank-execs-try-to-justify-outrageous-pay-again/4095"
I don't know whether to scream out in rage, cry, or vomit...
Mike
There is a reason they are raising prices. A "retail" account that carries a average monthly balance of $500 bucks is a service. It's not an account that a bank can "loan against" with such a small balance. Dodd Frank did force banks to carry higher cash/capital reserves.. Checking accounts don't help. That is why the minimum balance accounts don't get charged. Not having a $5 fee is not worth tying up $1500 in cash to me..I can get a better return doing something else with it..so I will take the fee as a retail service. I will pay for. A steady service revenue stream can be used to show minimum reserve compliance. I don't like it..but is the "service" free worth the risk of lost cash, ease of record keeping...? For me, yes. If ya add a cost burden to a business... they will raise prices. Your choice to use it. Populist political gestures do cost money. Now IMAGINE as part of Dodd Frank...the law said you HAVE to carry a debit card, you have no choice....you can't avoid the fees and can't use a credit union or cash and if you are caught without a debit card you can get a heft fine... why, you would have something close to Obamacare..! See how that works?
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