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(19 posts)

Boeing moving 2nd 787 production line to SC

Started 2 years ago by WesCAddle
Latest reply from acemotel

WesCAddle
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Okay, there are a lot of people in West Seattle that work at Boeing I am sure....

....discuss....

Posted 2 years ago #
WSB
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Well, I'm obviously not one of them but for discussion's sake, both King County Executive candidates decided to issue statements about this, so I'll post 'em here. First, Susan Hutchison statement, in its entirety, cut and pasted from Word doc sent by her campaign (unedited, the Gregoire misspelling is a cq):

"— Today brought a devastating blow to our region and our state. The Boeing Company announced today it is moving its future out of this region. This is an abject failure of our government and our elected officials. Governor Gregiore, former Executive Ron Sims, King County Council Chairman Dow Constantine, our Congressional delegation and our legislature have failed us.

We’re standing outside Key Arena, the former home of the Seattle Supersonics, a team whose name reflected the Boeing legacy here. The Sonics are gone and the future of Aerospace in our state is joining them.

Our current crop of politicians have destroyed the Washington State business climate. They bend to the will of special interests that discourage businesses both large and small and push jobs out of our communities. They have failed to respond to growing job losses by fixing the tax and regulatory climate and fixing our failed transportation grid. They have encouraged the outrageous overreaching of unions and have left us with a business climate that no longer allows businesses to survive or thrive.

King County is the economic engine of this region and the engine has broken down.

The organizations responsible for pushing the aerospace industry and the thousands of jobs dependent upon it out of our State are the very same bankrolling Dow Constantine’s campaign. When the Seattle Times endorsed my campaign, they did so because I have repeatedly said we must go back to the bargaining table and renegotiate union contracts – Dow Constantine adamantly refuses to do so. He refuses to do so, because he is beholden to those unions and special interests. They fund both his campaign and the libelous attack ads against me. He has
the financial backing of some 54 union groups and more than half have contributed the maximum allowed by law. Hundreds of thousands of dollars spent electing job killing candidates.

The Seattle Times stated, “This election must be about change.” That statement is more true today than it has ever been. The future of this entire region is in jeopardy unless we drastically change the way we operate as a government. From the first day I launched my campaign, I have said we must overhaul the business climate and make it clear that businesses large and small are the economic drivers that help pay for schools, hospitals, create jobs, encourage families and are critical to the success of King County and Washington State.

Today’s announcement is a wake up call for our region. With 200,000 jobs tied directly or indirectly to the Boeing Company, it is the canary in the coal mine. How many more businesses will move out before our government realizes it must drastically change course?
It is time for new leadership--time for new vision and time for a new direction.

I am not part of the old political establishment. I am a citizen who has lived here for nearly thirty years, put my children through Seattle’s public schools, and love this region. And by the way, I am also the wife of a Boeing employee. I entered this race because I saw record deficits, the worst financial crisis in King County history, and recognized King County needed to change. I have the executive skills to turn this county around. When elected Executive, will work tirelessly to generate new jobs and protect the ones already here. While we have the smartest, best skilled, and most dedicated workforce in the county, today’s decision is a painful lesson that leaders must do more to protect our jobs and economy.

Whether it is a cultural legacy like the Seattle Sonics, contributing to jobs and the quality of life in our region, or one of our largest employers in Boeing, politicians like my opponent are failing our businesses, failing our economy, and failing the people of King County."

Next, Dow Constantine's statement.

Posted 2 years ago #
WSB
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And here is the entirety of the Dow Constantine statement, cut and pasted, unedited, from inline text in e-mail sent by his campaign:

King County Executive candidate Dow Constantine issued the following statement in response to Boeing’s announcement that they will build the second 787 line outside of Washington State:

“Like everyone in the region, I am deeply disappointed Boeing chose to build the second line of the 787 outside of Washington State. As a child growing up in West Seattle, it seemed that every other house was supported by a Boeing job. Since that time we have worked hard as a region to diversify our economy, but to lose future aerospace jobs is a reminder that we must redouble our efforts to protect and enhance our aerospace economy.

"We must work together moving forward to secure the next generation of jetliners and military aircraft already built in the region, including our team effort to secure the Air Force refueling tanker contract.

"As Executive I'll focus on improving our economy thorough innovations and reforms in county government that make it easier to start and grow a business, and building the transportation choices to keep that economy moving for years to come. As the only candidate supported by both the business community and workers, I'm in the best position to create common ground and set the foundation for job growth and future prosperity.

"King County is poised to become a true global leader in clean energy technologies. We are already a leader in biosciences and, of course, computing technology. We take none of this for granted, and as Executive I'll make economic growth--and the transportation infrastructure needed to support growth-- a true priority.

"While saddened by today's news, I look forward to the opportunities that lay ahead.”

Posted 2 years ago #
WesCAddle
Member Profile

So many people are jumping on the IAM (Union), but I believe Boeing is using them as a scapegoat. Boeing put the union in a very difficult situation.

Boeing: "Give us a ten year no strike clause"
IAM: "Okay, but in return we want to keep the pensions that are getting terminated at the end of the year, and want a slight pay raise".
Boeing: "Nope. Give us the 10 year strike clause, and we will give you nothing in return. That's the deal. Take it or leave it".
IAM: "But..."
Boeing: "See ya in South Carolina."

Posted 2 years ago #
WesCAddle
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Here is a nice article from the Charleston Post and Courier: (please note the last sentence in the article as well as the comment from the local at the end)

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2009/oct/29/29boeing/

Posted 2 years ago #
grr
Member Profile

I hate to see the jobs go, but I'm so fed up with the antiquated concept of a Union, especially one that strikes every other year. The facility in SC already does a chunk of work on this plane. It'll be a great boom to their economy.

and..yes..Washington State is NOT friendy to business..I can attest to that. One of THE highest buisness tax states in the country. Maybe someday that will change. But I doubt it.

Posted 2 years ago #
WesCAddle
Member Profile

What about this potential scenario:

As economist Thomas Friedman suggests, workers in non-union industries are paid far less than union industries. The fact that they are paid less, leads to lower standards of living, thus lower cost of living. So the entire economy in states like South Carolina is smaller, more depressed. People make less, things cost less.

But after a while, these workers in South Carolina will begin to wonder why someone is Seattle doing the EXACT same job as them, is getting paid three times as much. After a while, they will wonder why they don't have a nice retirement or pension, and the workers doing the exact same thing in Seattle do.

It would be interesting to see how Boeing will react if the workers vote the IAM back in after a few years.

Time will tell...

Posted 2 years ago #
clark5080
Member Profile

Wes
"Boeing: "Nope. Give us the 10 year strike clause, and we will give you nothing in return."

Boeing was going to give them more jobs than they will have now.

Posted 2 years ago #
lazybeard
Member Profile

One of the overlooked pieces of this situation is all of the vendor positions that could be lost because of this too. There is a number of local and national/int'l companies that do business with Boeing locally within the Puget Sound.

I watched an HBO Documentary called The Last Truck: Closing of a GM Plant (http://www.hbo.com/docs/docuseries/gmplant/index.html). Pretty straight to the point. The main difference I see is that the town seemed to be centered around the plant.

Posted 2 years ago #
ellenater
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I didn't read the news articles. How many jobs will be lost?

*also sick to death of politician's rhetoric and blaming.

Posted 2 years ago #
Jiggers
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More medication please..Oh yeah..The last one to leave the building, don't forget to turn off the lights.

Posted 2 years ago #
Ken
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I knew months ago this was never going to be built in WA.

SC is a "right to work state" where unions are kept in line and hourly wages are mostly bumped up when the minimum wage increases happen.

You can buy a house for 60k though and a mansion for 200k. And in most of the state you have to drive 50 to 100 miles to find a non christian bookstore. Maybe when the educated work force moves from here to there they can raise the IQ level.

We never had a chance to compete with that. It is a form of "in country" outsourcing.

South Carolina has long been one of the least unionized states in the nation. In 2000 the state ranked 49th with 4 percent unionized, only slightly ahead of North Carolina. As a result, organized labor has relatively less clout in the state than in most other states. One of the main goals of powerful business groups such as the Chamber of Commerce has been to keep labor unions out of the state, and they have been quite successful in their efforts. A major tool in weakening efforts to unionize the labor force has been the "right-to-work" laws, passed more than 40 years ago. These laws outlaw the "closed shop," which would force all workers to join a union when a majority of workers vote to be represented by the union. The idea behind the closed shop is to prevent what is called "free riders," that is, workers who benefit from union contracts without having to pay to support the union efforts.

Even public employee unions, which, unlike private sector unions, have been growing nationally, are limited in South Carolina. State government does not engage in collective bargaining with public employees and prohibits strikes. S.C. Code (Section 8-11-33) only allows dues for the State Troopers' Association and State Employees' Association to be withheld in paychecks if they do not engage in collective bargaining or encourage members to strike. The simultaneous strikes by public school teachers and university professors in Hawaii in the spring of 2001 that ultimately led to double digit pay increases simply could not take place in South Carolina.

"The South Carolina Governance Project — Interest Groups in South Carolina,"
Center for Governmental Services, Institute for Public Service and Policy Research, University of South Carolina

Posted 2 years ago #
CountingCoup
Member Profile

I agree that the IAM was used as a scapegoat here. It will be interesting to see how they plan on training the SC workers...

Will Boeing bring them to the Puget Sound to train them? And will this Union busting move lead to other Boeing plane models moving to SC?

Posted 2 years ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

Just don't understand the fight to lower standards for the middle class. Does the union makes mistakes, sure. But this argument that the US workers compensations should go lower, especially from billion dollar corporations, is a slap in the face of american workers.
.
Reeks of 'this is all your gonna get, and you're going to like it!!'
.
Don't be surprised in the next decade when Boeing makes the same argument against SC workers salaries and they continue their move to China.
Guess we should just lower our wages to china's to help Boeing out.
.
Boeing has mismanaged, mishandled, and overestimated their new plane. Yet the blame is put on the guys and gals on the front line, the ones trying to make $50K a year... yet those making $20M a year continue to garner huge salaries, bonuses, and then put blame elsewhere.
.

Posted 2 years ago #
jamminj
Member Profile

"Washington State is NOT friendy to business"
.

Forbes Magazine ranks Washington state #2 for doing business in 2009.
.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/23/best-states-for-business-beltway-best-states.html
.
from the 2007 rankings where WA ranked 5th:
"...Washington has had more businesses open per capita the past three years than any other state in the U.S. "
.
2010 State Business Tax Climate Index
.
Washington state is in the top 10 states as the
best state to do business in.
.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22658.html

Posted 2 years ago #
transplantella
Member Profile

Surely the exodus of Boeing production was guaranteed when the workers went out on strike (again) last year and cost the company billions?

Surely the handwriting was boldly on the wall when Boeing moved its headquarters to Chicago?

Boeing is leaving the Puget Sound, bits at a time. Expect this leakage to continue till there is no Boeing left here.

Posted 2 years ago #
lazybeard
Member Profile

If you've ever taken the Everett Factory tour, you can see that the factory is divided into bays/rows for each type of aircraft.

I believe the thought is that is when the final 767 rolls out, that the 767 Tanker would take over (if Boeing is awarded the contract). Would there be job loss? Yes, if Boeing isn't awarded the 767 Tanker contract.

Posted 2 years ago #
dobro
Member Profile

"I'm so fed up with the antiquated concept of a Union"

Here's an antiquated system I'm fed up with that's been around a lot longer than unions...it looks like this-

Very small group of very, very, rich people on top

Lots and lots of very, very poor people at the bottom

nothing much in the middle.

That's how things were before unions created stuff like weekends and 40 hour weeks and let children go to school instead of working in factories and forced a living wage which used to be enough to support a family with only one breadwinner. It's a system that works very well for the few at the top and depends on the suckers at the bottom that are stupid enough to work against their own interests by dividing their ranks.

Posted 2 years ago #
acemotel
Member Profile

THANK YOU, Ken, jamminj and dobro!!! Criminey, I will never understand why some working people are opposed to their own empowerment.?? Likewise, some people are party to their own oppression. Susan H. must not know that Seattle has a strong and proud and lengthy union heritage. I am a business owner and I love unions. There is no better solution to poverty, crime, gangs and social malaise than well-paying jobs, where men and women can buy homes, raise their families, send their children to college and enjoy the dignity that is the birthright of every human being.

Posted 2 years ago #