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Believe in god or not? Why?

Started 1 year ago by cclarue
Latest reply from JoB

cclarue
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At work religion and politics are offlimit topics. I am curious about what people in general believe and why or how you came to that belief system.

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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cc: i've heard bartenders say the same thing about conversations at the bar: "no religion. no politics." too contentious. do you work in the service industry?

to answer your question, when i was in high school, a priest asked me if i thought ghandi went to heaven. (you know, catholic heaven.)

that question - more than any other - started a cascade of thoughts that eventually led me to ascertain that there is no "god." or "higher power." or "supreme being." or any other omniscient, omnipotent force in the universe.

when it's over, it's over.

and, no. atheism is not a religion.

Posted 1 year ago #
JayDee
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One can believe anything they want. My POV boils down to why do we think we are that important? There are literally hundreds of millions of galaxies, billions and billions of stars and googles of planets. Yet this planet is thought by many religions to be special in all of creation.
-
It would seem to me that a god who went to all that trouble to create the Universe we can see with the Hubble space telescope would have little interest in some uppity primates on an insignificant backwater around a none too remarkable star. And even less interest in monitoring my moral behavior. Mark Twain, Carl Sagan, and what I feel is commonsense molded this outlook. My take alone.

Posted 1 year ago #
Genesee Hill
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I believe that life after my death will be like life before my birth. Nothing.

Posted 1 year ago #
Zenguy
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I grew up Catholic, went to Holy Rosary am interested in religion and have studied Judaism, Buddhism (which I admire) and many others.

Bottom line (for me) is I feel religion is how people in the past could make sense of a world they could not understand. And religion allowed people in control to implement a set of rules they thought were "proper" on the populous. After all the bible was not written for several hundred years after Jesus.

We discover more and more about the world and the universe and can explain things that were mysterious in the past. Many things we can do now would have been considered miracles not so many years ago.

I consider myself spiritual and firmly believe you get what you give. If people find comfort in religion, I say MORE POWER TO YOU and support your right to beleive what you want. What I do not support is anyone trying to push their way of life on anyone else.

Just my opinion.

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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actually, zenguy, many of the things we can do now would have been considered heresy and sorcery in european and american cultures. might even have earned you a place at the stake in colonial massachusetts.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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is the question do we believe in God?
or do we believe in organized religion?
because i think they are two different questions.

For the record...
i am firmly in the believing in God camp
and consider myself a Christian

but don't belong to or attend any church
and refuse to quote scripture at anyone.

i am married to an atheist so that works for him:)

his inability to separate the church from a belief in god doesn't work for me:(

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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God will be answering your questions directly on the West Seattle Blog.

Stay tuned for more info . . .

Posted 1 year ago #
Genesee Hill
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Humans are special. All other life terminates upon death.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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Genesee...

the pups dream
anything is possible

Posted 1 year ago #
cclarue
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Yes job the question is do you believe in god. I also should have added which god?

Posted 1 year ago #
redblack
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bravo! genhill FTW.

Posted 1 year ago #
Zenguy
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Oh, no...I am meeting my dog in heaven too. He deserves it more than me.

Posted 1 year ago #
velo_nut
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I believe in myself... You can follow me for $20. Must provide your own robe.

Posted 1 year ago #
ellenater
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I believe in spirit and in the snake eating it's own tail. I am a Taoist mostly, a Buddhist sometimes, and a Catholic once or twice a year. I think religion is both asinine and necessary. I love complexity. I think life is God and if you are alive, you are part of the God and if you are dead, ... I don't know. I hope it's fun. I do believe in some kind of soul. I only believe in what I resonate with intuitively and if that changes a previously held belief, so be it.

Great thread.

Posted 1 year ago #
maplesyrup
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No, I don't believe in God. Throughout history we've seen many religions and their gods rise and fall. What makes us think that the gods of contemporary religions are any different?

Posted 1 year ago #
metrognome
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I would say I'm an agnostic, which is different than an athiest. Personally, I consider myself to be spiritual in that I believe there may be some kind of unifying 'force' or spirit that connects living things; I will never know the exact nature of this 'force'. There is much in this world that is amazingly beautiful and good and much that is astoundingly cruel and evil. For me, the fact that I can't explain it is more comforting than inventing a creator, which is an even greater conundrum.

To me, the crux of god-centered (Christian) religions is: the world is much to complex to have created itself; therefore, there must be a superpower that has existed forever and is all-knowing and all-powerful that created it and controls the lifes of 'his' creatures (I know this is an over-simplification ...) To me, this is even more unbelievable than the concept that the universe evolved from nothingness or that we are all characters in a cosmic play (what I call the sci-fi version) or any other explanation. I am content with the mystery.

BTW, I was raised Catholic, complete with Holy Names nuns and Jesuit priests, was an altar boy, etc. When I was a senior in HS, I decided that organized religion and belief in a god didn't work for me.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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cclarue..

is there more than one god?
or simply more than one religion?

Posted 1 year ago #
dhg
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Fifteen years ago I was diagnosed with melanoma and surgeon told me they might have to remove half my face unless "it was too late" for that. Thankfully he overstated the issue but it did get me off the fence as it forced me to ask myself what do I believe? I was reared a Baptist. But I don't believe it. I also don't believe you only live once. I am inclined towards the Buddhist ideas that life is a continuing circle.

I think the children prodigies are examples of that fact. When a 3 yr old jumps up on the piano bench and begins knocking out Mozart, I think it is because he's played it before.

Posted 1 year ago #
cclarue
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JoB I think the answer is people believe in different gods, and have made much religion from this beliefs.

Posted 1 year ago #
lucky chick
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JayDee-
I know I'm late to this party, but great post! If nothing else, "God" would probably not bother with all those pro ball players who pray before every pitch. Seriously??
My heart swells with hope to encounter a few non-believers here. It's lonely out there...
.
One Very Happy Atheist :)

Posted 1 year ago #
TDe
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Belief comes from people. Many of those who believe are certain they have the "true" insight on the matter and as far as I can tell the "truth" varies as much as people and culture varies on this planet. So I honestly don't know, although I might send velo_nut $20 and find a robe just for the laugh. Clearly, there's something inside many of us that seeks a higher power, knowledge or authority and many people have had some sort of "mystical" experiences that initiate or validate a belief. Some say these experiences come from God, some say they come from inside ourselves and others just keep them close and wonder about them.

A long time ago a friend of mine said something to me that I've never forgotten. He said his most profound wish around dying would be that at the time of death he would be be fully conscious and aware with his eyes wide open, so he would understand what was happening and would know in that moment the truth about God and what happens when we die. I've always liked that.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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cclarue..

then you are asking about religion not god.

ellenator...

i loved this...

"I love complexity. I think life is God and if you are alive, you are part of the God and if you are dead, ... I don't know."

i don't know either..
but i am not eager to hasten understanding :)

Posted 1 year ago #
cclarue
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JoB.. No , My question is still the same. Do you believe in God? why or why not? what lead you there? one can believe in god and not be religious yet there are many religions.

Posted 1 year ago #
cclarue
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Lucky Chick I dont think you are going to be lonely for long. I hear more non beliver sentiment here than believer. Can you elaborate on how you arrived at atheism?

Posted 1 year ago #
cclarue
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For the "Raised Catholic" set are you still practicing? Why or why not?

Posted 1 year ago #
dobro
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I think the problem with your question is that people don't agree on what "God" is. Is he an old man sitting on a cloud occasionally hurling thunderbolts and influencing baseball games? Is it a Force that holds the universe together? Are each of us "God"? We're supposed to be made in "his" image.

So since we can't agree on what God is, the question "do you believe in God" leads to many interpretations that don't lend themselves to a yes/no answer.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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dobro..

ahh grasshopper..
you have created a riddle within a riddle
such is the mystery of god ;)

Posted 1 year ago #
365Stairs
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AM I?
Chicken / Egg
If God made us...Who made God?
Life after Death?
Gotta believe in something - even if that something is nothing.

Pinch yourself...did it hurt? Then you're real - right?

If you believe the scientists...we are all made up of the same thing as stardust material...I like to believe we go back into the universe from which we came...this helps with my irrational anxiety over not knowing...

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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cclarue...

if you are looking for conversion stories.. you aren't going to find one here.

i seem to have started life with the basic belief that life is full of mystery, that it all fits together somehow and that there is always more to discover... my version of faith.

I gave up on sunday school father figure representations of that faith very early.
By the time i was 10 i was trying to reconcile religion with science ...
not an effort that was appreciated by either my church or my parents :(

in spite of the heavy hand of my church and my parents.. my faith remained.

as i sought the answer to life's questions i studied and tried on too many of the world's major and minor religions without finding that one illusive truth that would cause me to commit to one.

in spite of being able to find that one illusive truth in any religion ... my faith remained.

I played verbal chess with agnostics and atheists and found that they too took much of their worldview on faith in spite of rationalizations to the contrary.

in spite of an inability to scientifically defend faith ... my faith remained.

today i am left with the faith that remained
and the belief system i grew up with...
it's as good as any and better than most for me

stripped to it's essence
there is no conflict between faith and science..

For me faith is that which you simply can not prove yet..

or disprove either :)
unless you resort to picking apart the stories religion has built around it's faith.
It is too easy to make someone else's beliefs look foolish

faith is never doubting that there is something to be discovered...
even when you can't see it, touch it or hear it.
i don't think that can be rationalized

i like to think that it's the scientist in me that drives my faith
those those who rely only on established science would disagree ;~)

Posted 1 year ago #
365Stairs
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Not that you need the feedback JoB...but that was wonderfully written...

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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365stairs...

today i really like the idea of going back to the universe from which i came...

stardust for me is mixed with collective memories :)

i find i have to believe that our struggles to understand the world we live in create something greater than the moment...

if i believe in anything it is the sanctity of curiosity

Posted 1 year ago #
lucky chick
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How I arrived at atheism... I was told as a kid by everyone that there was a god, I was from a catholic family but not real church-goers, and I prayed because it was comforting to think someone was listening. But my dog died anyway, animals felt pain, people did bad things, the Yankees lost, no one could explain HOW that guy Lazarus moved that big rock all by himself, Jewish people didn't seem any different from me, the idea of hell was pretty absurd, as was heaven (again, comforting), and then I started taking biology. I couldn't build a plane or perform surgery or describe how a computer worked, but someone else understood and could explain these things. No one could explain god. I was supposed to have "faith." The idea of god went the way of santa claus at about the same time (well, by mean brother spilled the beans about santa a little earlier).

I'm much less generous now - I lament that the leaders of most of the world are silly enough to believe in a god, and a lot of people would condemn me for not. I just want to scream when a president prays or I hear "under god" in the pledge. To me, that's eliminating the separation of church and state. I sometimes feel like a very lonely reasonable person.

Posted 1 year ago #
biankat
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Dog is my co-pilot.

I don't believe in any 'higher' being. Rather, religion is an excuse to behave badly. How many people 'Go to God' when they're sitting on death row? Take some personal responsibility for your actions, be a good human being, be nice to animals.

Posted 1 year ago #
squareeyes
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It depends upon the day. But most of the time -- not so much. But I still find myself saying "thank god!" under certain circumstances - more out of habit, but still... With my catholic upbringing so ingrained despite 30+ years away from the church it's very hard for me to believe in no higher power, but I just can't buy it as the catholics sell it. I believe in reincarnation. I believe we get what we give (karma), that we have a certain number of lessons to learn in each lifetime and, if we fail to learn those lesson in this lifetime, it's going to be a whole heap more difficult in the next lifetime. Can I explain why I have these beliefs? Nope, that's faith for you. But those beliefs do help me to try to be the best person I can be.

I went to a past-life regressionist in my mid-20s who told me I'd never been married in any of my past lives for a variety of reasons depending on which life -- and that I finally had the skills in this life but they needed to be developed. It was like a lightbulb going on - made perfect sense at the time and was a worthwhile observation that I could work from. She met with my sister and was like "oh dear, I've never seen such a boring past". Just entirely noneventful. I still laugh at that.

Posted 1 year ago #
ellenater
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JoB, right on!

I am enjoying this thread as it hasn't turned hateful self righteous...yet. I have a fever and am slightly hallucinatory so it is that much more enjoyable. :)

Posted 1 year ago #
B-squared
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I was raised catholic but escaped mainly unscathed. nice thing about catholicism is you can appear to participate in mass out of some kind of body memory, yet be miles away. in eighth grade CCD class i finally had a nun teacher instead of someone's mom. the habit lent her credibility i guess and i figured she would give me answers that were spot on. The answer to my first and only question (will my cat go to heaven)was an unacceptable NO. That was the end of me and religion. i do consider myself spiritual - with nature being my church. i like the idea of a "shared energy". One of the many, many turn offs of religion for me was the idea that you were saved if you believed, but everyone else who believed differently wasn't. i'm also not keen on the idea of heaven and hell. you are here now. your behavior should not revolve around some imagined reward you will get later.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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I think the essential truth of faith is that everyone possesses it. Everyone has some compelling belief in something they can't prove, whether they admit it or not.

The essential problem of faith is that — people being what they are — some believers don't feel that THEIR faith is valid unless they can hang around a bunch of other people who believe just like they do. —Which is why there is organized religion, with all its wonders and horrors.

This in turn, is an extension of the human need to "belong" to something, a need that goes all the way back to cave man times . . .

In this particular time and place, there's not much of a penalty for being a freethinker. A little guilt-tripping from your family maybe . . . That awkward feeling you sometimes get when everyone else is saying their prayers or pledging allegiance and you're just staring at the floor . . . But that's about it.

And that's about the best we can hope for.

I personally believe in God, a God that's involved with humans and with the world. But at the same time, I'm glad we're living in the here and now, and that we can debate the question openly, without anyone fearing the consequences of not believing.

Posted 1 year ago #
DP
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I think the essential truth of faith is that everyone possesses it. Everyone has some compelling belief in something they can't prove, whether they admit it or not.

The essential problem of faith is that — people being what they are — some believers don't feel that their faith is valid unless they can hang around a bunch of other people who believe just like they do. —Which is why there is organized religion, with all its wonders and horrors.

Organized religion is also an extension of the human need to "belong" to something, a need that goes all the way back to cave man times . . . By the same token, it's also a whip that some people can crack over the heads of others.

Fortunately, in this particular time and place, there's not much of a penalty for being a freethinker. A little guilt-tripping from your family maybe . . . That awkward feeling you sometimes get when everyone else is saying their prayers or pledging allegiance and you're just staring at the floor . . . But that's about it.

And that's about the best we can hope for.

I personally believe in God, a God that's involved with humans and with the world. But at the same time, I'm glad we're living in the here and now, and that we can debate the question openly, without anyone fearing the consequences of not believing.

Posted 1 year ago #
Zenguy
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As a "recovering Catholic" I can say their dictatorial ideas about birth control in an era of deadly diseases, their cover up of priest misconduct and condomnation of gays is what really did it for me.

Although I have had some awesome experiences in the Catholic church as well. I remember having a conversation with Father Moynihan (a wonderful man that spent many years at Holy Rosary and later he was at Mt. St. Vincent and still remembered me) and asked what a sin was and he said it is when you know something is wrong and you do it anyway. That resonated with me, religous or not.

Posted 1 year ago #
HunterG
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Due to living with two librarians and my own research on the matter of religion I have deemed myself to be " not interested".

I believe that religion is different than god and placing that much power onto any one idea/being/etc... is dangerous. God is everything that makes up our lives... the tree, the dog, the cat, your neighbor, your mom etc... we all make up our existence, so in a way we are all a part of "God".

I was brought up with choice, which I will always thank my parents for. When we asked about Jesus, or God we were always told "Religion can be great or it can cause destruction, but God is is a totally different thing."

As I have grown into adulthood I have fostered a belief in truth. A core set of values, ideas and realizations. What truth is, is relative. My truth may be profoundly different than another person's truth but two things that I do intensely believe is that "system" is the last way anyone's faith should be termed and that religion should be personal. Not something that can spawn so much hate.

Maybe if it were personal and not be put into competition with another persons "god" there could actually be peace on this planet.

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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365stairs and ellenator

thanks..

i always appreciate feedback even when it's the not so positive kind...

Posted 1 year ago #
JoB
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Hunter G

if you look closely at the violence done "in the name of god" you will find economics lurking in the background.

Too many use God as a rationalization for self interest.

Posted 1 year ago #
Zenguy
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And let's not even go into how much money the Catholic and Mormon churchs have and that they guilt their followers to give more and more.

Posted 1 year ago #
charlabob
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Great topic and conversation. For more, fTind HBO's "Sunet Limited" - premiere tonight. Samuel L. Jackson and Tommy Lee Jones take on the same topics.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2011/02/12/sunset-limited-tommy-lee-jones-cormac-mccarthy/

Posted 1 year ago #
cclarue
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Charlabob thanks ! that looks good but I can't watch it bc I just cancelled hbo and stars and am saving 50$ a month so I willhave to find a way to see it some other time.

Posted 1 year ago #
cclarue
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Personally I believe in god , I always have. When I was 4 or 5 my mom would put me on a bus to Sunday School. She never went. I cringe to think that she sent her 5 year old on a bus to a place she had never been!!! Then we moved and I started going to a different church on a bus. I liked church. I once went to a vacation bible study at a neighbors house that was a few blocks away, not affiliated with my church. They invited me to their church that Sunday so I went. Oh my that was an experience!!! First Sunday school where they were memorizing the old testament books. I couldn't pronounce many of them let alone remember them in order I was like 8 or 9. Then it was church and what a trip that was people were speaking in tounges and falling down!!! I thought I was going to cry !! I remember thinking there's no place like home there's no place like home! I hope they take me home! Am I gonna get kidnapped by these people?? But no they took me home and said just let us know you can come back anytime!! No way! No thank you. I will just go back to my consrvative little church in west Seattle where we sing quietly from the hymnal!! Now i think I had that experience so I could know how uncomfortable any church could be to a non believer!! But back to the topic. I asked the question to gain information about what folks believe and why because it is such a personal thing that some may be more candid here.I can't imagine not beleiving in God when I look at the water driving westbound down the hill on Morgan after crossing 35th, or when I look at my dogs eyes, or my children. I stopped going to church in high school and started going again a few years ago, and I intentionally would look for and seek out how many intelligent people were there and at my church we have engineers, a scientist and attorneys and many other analytical types of people, because I used to want to find ways and arguments to back up what I believe to non believers. The great thing now is I don't even want to try to argue my case anymore. I am content just having my faith for me. And very interested and fascinated with other peoples belief system or lack there of. And I think that because I was never forced to go to church means it has always been my choice. And everyone deserves that freedom.I kick myself now for not taking that world religions class in high school.

Posted 1 year ago #
charlabob
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cc -- tell me how to get in touch with you and I'll get the show to you. Seriously, it was made for you :-)

Posted 1 year ago #
cclarue
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Charlabob how do I personal message you here?

Posted 1 year ago #
charlabob
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Personal messages don't work but you can always find me as charla at charla dot com. :-)

Posted 1 year ago #

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