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Admiral Way Hill: Why Speed Limit Only 30 MPH?!

Started 2 years ago by andasai
Latest reply from JoB

andasai
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The posted speed limit of 30 mph on Admiral Way hill seems way too slow for such an unpopulated area. Driving down, I have to brake hard the whole way and even going up, seems too slow. I think it used to be 35 mph. What gives? Also, why are there landscape workers there clearing out all the plant growth? Just curious.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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"Why Speed Limit Only 30 MPH?"

It gives you more time to peruse the wide selection of used automobiles parked along the east curb.

"why are there landscape workers there clearing out all the plant growth? "

The cars sell better when the landscape is well-tended.

Posted 2 years ago #
cjboffoli
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What is it about double lane roads that makes people just naturally want to go fast? 35th is like that. The (old) Fauntleroy was like that. And this area has a fairly steep grade which also tends to make people speed.

There are intersecting streets all the way down Admiral Way towards the bridge. Are people allowed to turn in and out of those streets? Does keeping the speed limit at 30 make those intersections safer?

I've driven down that hill many times and yes, you do have to use the brakes. But not "hard." I know it can be galling for a lot of people behind the wheel in our fair city but you actually do have to use your vehicle's brakes from time to time.

If you consider how little time it takes to get down that hill (2 minutes? 90 seconds?), I doubt there would even be a discernible difference in time saved from your trip if you were to go down the hill at 55 mph.

Posted 2 years ago #
swimcat
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I have to agree with the OP on this - the speed limit on that stretch of Admiral really needs to be re-evaluated. It is a straight stretch, smoothly paved, with few residences. Meanwhile, Fauntleroy was (and still is) 35MPH through turns, potholes, terrible pavement, apartments, condos, houses and side streets galore. I have a bit of a lead foot at times, but I drive b/t 30 and 34 MPH on Fauntleroy. because it's so unsafe.

Posted 2 years ago #
sam-c
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I drive safely. I drive 20mph on my street, and in other residential areas of Seattle. sometimes drives people crazy, I've been flicked off, passed with horn accompaniment, everything.

however, 35 mph on that stretch of Admiral would still be safe. going up or down, whenever I'm there, I spend more time looking at my speedometer than the road. 30 feels so slow to me.

I'm not saying it's hard, and I manage to do it all the time. sometimes, though, I feel like- O! crap -gotta look at the road, not the speedometer.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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The entire stretch is less than a mile. Bumping the speed limit up to 35 would shave a whole TWELVE SECONDS off your trip. Are you really that impatient?

Posted 2 years ago #
swimcat
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It's a very unreasonable speed limit. When you have pokey drivers complaining about it, you know it's too slow! As sam-c states, drivers are too busy looking at speedometers and not the road- which is not safe driving.

I have to drive in 3rd gear down that hill, which puts strain on the engine. Or I can put it in 4th and then wear out the brakes. I'm just glad I don't live in Admiral and rarely have to suffer driving up or down that hill.

Posted 2 years ago #
Kimberley
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Driving in third gear shouldn't but strain on your engine at all.

As someone who lives off of Admiral, on one of those side streets and has almost been hit by speeding drivers going up Admiral on numerous occasions (I believe 30 going up and down that hill is a safe speed limit). I often see drivers speeding past those going the speed limit on the left, only to cut over to the right and almost hit those safely turning onto Admiral. Perhaps if people driving up/down Admiral paid more attention to their surroundings, the speed limit wouldn't be an issue.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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Kimberley, it's too bad you think you need safe access to your street. Your safety is not worth 12 seconds of other peoples' time. Perhaps you should move someplace more convenient for others.

Posted 2 years ago #
sam-c
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K-Bear if you are talking to me, you didn't read my post. I'm not impatient and I'm not in a hurry and I'm not trying to save 12 seconds. I DO go 30 mph.

I was saying that 35 feels like more natural, and would be easier to maintain without constantly checking my speedometer.

Posted 2 years ago #
villagegreen
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I don't know why I'm posting this again, since this topic comes up repeatedly (about every 6 months or so), but here we go.

For the last time, people who complain about the speed limit being 30 instead of a reasonable 35 are not worried in the slightest about the 12 seconds that they're losing, they're complaining that they have to spend more time looking at their speedometers than the road, and there are frequent speed traps on that road so that if you don't spend half your time looking at the speedometer you may likely receive a hefty fine from the poorly deployed cops.

Once again, we are not worried about the 12 seconds. We just don't want to be criminalized for driving the "natural" speed limit. Got it?

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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Hmmm... I don't find it that hard to drive 30 mph up or down Admiral. Do you people find it difficult to go 20 mph in school zones? Should we raise that speed limit, too? Would the kids be safer if you didn't have to look at your speedometers?

If 35 mph is the "natural" speed, I guess that does explain all those slow drivers in the left lane on I-5.

Posted 2 years ago #
maplesyrup
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I look at it this way- if I lived on that hill or on one of the side streets, I'd appreciate the lower speed limit.

That turn at the bottom of the hill (don't know the street name but it goes past the glass blowing studio/Luna Park) can also be dangerous if people get going too fast. It's especially true if you're turning left up the hill.

Posted 2 years ago #
cjboffoli
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"Well you see, officer, I know I was going 125 in a 45 zone but it just felt more NATURAL to me."

:-)

Posted 2 years ago #
Lena
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I believe the speed limit was lowered after a number of fatal and serious accidents including one involving a co-worker of mine's very close friend who was only in his early 20s and was killed. Unfortunately when the speed limit was 35 mph most people would go closer to 50 and that highly increases the chance of serious injury or death in an accident. Now with the 30mph limit and the speed traps people actually do go slower.

I also find it a little troublesome to put on the brakes coming down but if it helps save someone's life it seems a small price to pay.

Posted 2 years ago #
SarahScoot
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Re: the "natural" speed limit - now I feel the need to dig up the similar comment made months back on a similar thread. Someone was defending speeding down Admiral hill eastbound because it's the speed her car wants to go. I'm still boggled by that comment, though it did give me a good giggle. ;-)

Edit: found the quote (the thread is title "SPD on Admiral Way... a trajedy [sic]"): "I go between 35 and 40 because that is the natural speed my car wants to go [...]"
And what do you know? It's the same person bringing up the "natural speed" argument again.

Posted 2 years ago #
sam-c
Member Profile

lol no, it feels natural to go 20 in school zone.
especially when there's so many things to look out for, cars, pedestrians, buses, cyclists.

like I said i GO 30 on Admiral. this isn't really worth complaining about, either way. I don't know why I'm here.

If you want to find something worth complaining about, watch people go 35-40 in a residential area, scraping over 'speed humps' cause they're going too fast, and on a street with no sidewalks.

stay safe

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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"I don't know why I'm here."

sam-c, your pug seems to be expressing exactly that sentiment. :-)

Posted 2 years ago #
sam-c
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funny too, a lot of times when I'm gong up/down Admiral, going 30 mph, I get passed or tailgated.

let me know when you guys so I can be sure to head out then.

Posted 2 years ago #
maplesyrup
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Nearly every day when I am driving home up the hill, I'll see some clown go flying by, sometimes agitated at me for driving the speed limit.

Then I pull up right next to them at one of the stoplights.

Posted 2 years ago #
Homer
Member Profile

yes, but honestly, there is only one sidewalk on one side of the street. There is a grass buffer of about 8 feet before it, and there is a parking lane for more buffer...so, walker/biker safety shouldn't be an issue for raising the speed limit....I agree, very odd it is so slow...not sure why it's not higher..wish it were. What else is the concern for not raising it?

Posted 2 years ago #
DMcG
Member Profile

This may be a bit out dated as it's from June 2008 but here is something on the Admiral speed limit from the PI's Getting There column. I'm sure it won't change opinions but it is, or at least was, the city's official stance.

http://www.seattlepi.com/transportation/365418_getthere02.html#2

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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There ya go. Now quit yer whining and slow down!

Posted 2 years ago #
CMP
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I think the reason for lowing the speed limit to 30 was primarily because of the road grade. I've said this before, but it makes no sense to me that Admiral is 30 mph but roads like 35th and Fauntleroy are still 35 mph. I'm surprised the morons at SDOT don't put some speed bumps in the middle of Admiral just to slow every down. And when people say it's natural to drive fast down Admiral towards the bridge, I think they're referring to the pull of gravity making the car accelerate.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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Yeah, the car just "naturally" wants to go downhill. It usually likes to stay on the road, too, so sometimes I don't even bother with the steering wheel, especially if I'm texting or eating a bowl of cereal. Natural speed at the top is 35 mph; at the bottom it's more like 60. Sometimes abnormalities like bikers or pedestrians interrupt my natural descent, but they usually get out of the way if I honk at them.

Posted 2 years ago #
vincent
Member Profile

CMP has made the best argument so far.

I've said this before, but it makes no sense to me that Admiral is 30 mph but roads like 35th and Fauntleroy are still 35 mph.

How do we get the city to lower the speed limit on 35th and Fauntleroy to 30mph? That would clear up the confusion for everyone.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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"How do we get the city to lower the speed limit on 35th and Fauntleroy to 30mph?"

Easy. Get all the complainers to sign a citizen initiative to RAISE the speed limit. Put it up to a public vote and pass it 4 times. Then let the Seattle Process do its thing.

Posted 2 years ago #
CMP
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Please keep the sarcasm to yourselves, I was being serious about gravity...and about lowering the speed limit on those other two roads. But feel free to raise it to 40 mph on Admiral.

Posted 2 years ago #
swimcat
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Yes KBear, the sarcasm is a bit much. It's making this thread a bit aggravating to read since you keep comparing apples to oranges too.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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Well, I thought the "natural speed" argument and the "it's too hard for me to check my speedometer while I'm driving" argument were a bit much. Being able to maintain a relatively constant speed and being observant of the speed limit are two qualifications required for safe driving. If those are too much for you, surrender your license. You don't belong on the road.

Posted 2 years ago #
SarahScoot
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+1 and thumbs up, KBear!

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
Member Profile

SarahScoot..totally agree. As with many things in life, so it is with Admiral Way...it is what it is...deal with it :)

Since my car isn't functioning right now, I suppose it's natural speed would be stop?

Posted 2 years ago #
maplesyrup
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Not if it's rolling down Admiral hill!

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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I suppose I should then warn...get outta the way :)

Posted 2 years ago #
Cait
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I don't think it's the speed limit itself that people are taking issue with but that it's 5 mph slower than every other stinking arterial in West Seattle. Other arterials that are much more populous and where just as many accidents happen. Also - the whole stretch is a crosswalk yet only one side has a sidewalk?! HELLO - common sense fail! I have never seen anyone cross that road on foot - and why would you? At one point or another you're going to be on that dangerous non-sidewalked west end. But if they do you'll be able to see them coming well farther in advance than you would on say 35th or California anyway.

Might I venture a guess as well that the fatality accidents were caused by people going closer to 50 mph than 35 mph. And if not - it could happen on any street - not just Admiral. Plus a 30 mph speed limit isn't catching WSHS kids speeding back from lunch and trust me they aren't doing any less than 45-50.

I think 35 mph is reasonable. And if you don't have cruise control you DO spend more time looking at the speedometer than the road. It's not an excuse, but it is a point that needs to be considered. To just poo-poo it because so and so that you agree with thinks it's a dumb point sounds a little like complacency to me. It does happen.

Posted 2 years ago #
Buddy
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whoo..whoo, I'm with "GET OUT OF THE WAAAYYYYY"

Posted 2 years ago #
JanS
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when going east on Admiral Way from, say, SW Olga St. , there are bus stops on the right hand side ( the side with no sidewalk. People do use that side, just maybe not to walk.

I remember when the speed limit was 35. I would drive 40 mph, especially when going up the hill. I remember doing that one evening, with a cop on my tail. I was in the left hand lane, since I was gonna make a left turn in another block or so. He rode my a$$ so close I had to get over, and he just smiled and gave me a thumbs up as he sped away going at least 45mph, if not more. Guess that was his car's "natural speed"...:)

Posted 2 years ago #
Dunno
Member Profile

I'm for the Gig Harbor top limit of 25 mph, 20 on side streets and 15 in school zones. Think of the money that could be made.
I do agree with that 35th and Fauntleroy speeds should be the same as Admiral and Highland drive(Boeing hill).

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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"I don't think it's the speed limit itself that people are taking issue with but that it's 5 mph slower than every other stinking arterial in West Seattle."

That is incorrect. The speed limit is 30 mph on arterials unless otherwise posted. A few are higher, but most are 30.

Posted 2 years ago #
sam-c
Member Profile

actually, Delridge is 35. but I always find myself going 30, cause that is what feels safe, with the pedestrians, people heading to buses, buses making stops, lots of driveways, cars parked on the street (and you don't know if a door is going to open suddenly). some of those things that you don't see on that Admiral hill.

and I think the 'car's natural speed' is something that you got from another thread. people are saying it would feel natural to drive 35.

I don't know there's a need to harass people for saying they want to go 35. you act as if they've said 'to hell with the 30 mph speed limit- I'm going 45!!!.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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Yes, sam-c, Delridge is 35, as are some of the other major arterials, but most arterials are 30.

The "35 feels more natural" argument was brought up by you in post 10 of this thread.

Sorry you feel harassed, but to suggest that speed limits should set based on what feels comfortable on your accelerator pedal just seems silly to me.

Posted 2 years ago #
JoB
Member Profile

Cait..

the most ignored safety issue on that stretch of road is the bus stop that is half way down the hill on the right as you drive towards the bridge.

if you live on the east side of admiral way.. and everyone does on that stretch... and you use the bus.. you will be crossing admiral way every time you get on a bus going downtown.

the only marked crosswalk on that stretch of road is at the top of the hill.. so you would have to walk up the hill, cross at the crosswalk and continue up the hill to access a safe bus stop.

i can't speak for anyone else, but when i am not paying attention to my speedometer, the area of the bus stop is where i generally realize that my speed has crept up and i have to apply my brakes...

at the most dangerous spot for anyone wanting to access that bus stop.

and at the most dangerous spot for anyone wanting to pull out of the adjacent cross street.

Admiral Way is still a city street not a freeway access road.

Posted 2 years ago #
swimcat
Member Profile

Some people on this thread really need to spend more time actually reading and comprehending other people's posts instead of jumping to conclusions about what their intended message was or being completely judgmental.

KBear, waht do you think about the speed limits on 35th, Fauntleroy or Delridge? Do you ever drive on those roads? If you did, you'd realize that on those roads, there are MANY obstacles and dangers, and even though I like to drive fast I drive UNDER the speed limit on those because that is the SAFE (i.e. natural if you will) speed to go. Whereas on Admiral, there are NO OBSTACLES, it is downhill (ever heard of gravity I wonder???), and you're heading onto an onramp for a bridge that has a high speed limit. In other words, SDOT has no logic in setting their speed limits.

Also, I have NEVER EVER seen a pedestrian on that stretch of Admiral. I highly doubt anyone that lives off of those sidestreets rides the bus, and if they did, they'd walk down to Harbor to catch one instead of waiting on Admiral.

Posted 2 years ago #
maplesyrup
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This morning I realized that the 30mph limit is great for when I want to eat a bagel while driving.

I can go nice and slow and still manage to glance at the speedometer occasionally.

Posted 2 years ago #
Kimberley
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I'm one of those people who lives off of one of those Admiral side streets that gets on/off the bus on Admiral.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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"Also, I have NEVER EVER seen a pedestrian on that stretch of Admiral."

Lots of drivers never ever see pedestrians. That may be part of the reason the speed limit is 30.

Posted 2 years ago #
CMP
Member Profile

KBear, some of us do actually look for pedestrians...my Defensive Driving class taught me that and it stuck with me. But maybe we're too busy eating bagels, checking the speedometer and looking for speed traps to pay attention to anything else. Bottom line is that this road used to be 35 mph and a lot of us believe that's the perfect speed for that road and that 30 mph is too slow. It's a completely reasonable speed limit IMO. If you're not comfortable driving that fast then maybe YOU should be giving up your license.

Posted 2 years ago #
austin
Member Profile

I'm a good driver, the rules shouldn't apply to me.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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I'd be happy to drive 35 on Admiral, but the speed limit is 30, and it really doesn't bother me. SDOT has explained its reasoning, and I'm satisfied with that.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
Member Profile

I'd be happy to drive 35 on Admiral, but the speed limit is 30, and it really doesn't bother me. SDOT has explained its reasoning, and I'm satisfied with that.

Posted 2 years ago #

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