David Frum wrote an insightful piece about the failures of the current ideological war...
no matter which side of the ideological split you think you occupy, it's well worth taking the time to read...
but if your time and patience are limited, start with the last page...
I am betting that if you do, you will scroll back to read the entire article...
http://nymag.com/news/politics/conservatives-david-frum-2011-11/
yes, Virgina, there is a Santa Claus
and he may be a republican ;->
Fascinating article. Thanks for posting, JoB.
"Few of us have the self-knowledge and emotional discipline to say one thing while meaning another. If we say something often enough, we come to believe it. We don’t usually delude others until after we have first deluded ourselves. Some of the smartest and most sophisticated people I know—canny investors, erudite authors—sincerely and passionately believe that President Barack Obama has gone far beyond conventional American liberalism and is willfully and relentlessly driving the United States down the road to socialism. No counterevidence will dissuade them from this belief: not record-high corporate profits, not almost 500,000 job losses in the public sector, not the lowest tax rates since the Truman administration. It is not easy to fit this belief alongside the equally strongly held belief that the president is a pitiful, bumbling amateur, dazed and overwhelmed by a job too big for him—and yet that is done too."
Great article..
I liked the article, other than the continual bashing of Fox News which is really old at this point I thought it was a good article. The last paragraph sums things up nicely I think
"Few of us have the self-knowledge and emotional discipline to say one thing while meaning another" Sez you!.. Obama is a rank panderer, nothing more. Record profits, loss of public sector jobs, are not bad things...indeed they are meritorious achievements!! More profits and more public sector job losses are an ever better prospects. Therein lies your conflict JanS... you can't it seems, fathom that others peoples property is not yours for the taking. A 5% tax rate is better than a 10% tax rate... I have the discipline to say it.. over, and over and over again. We have a spending problem.. we want too much and feel too entitled to take it from someone else to achieve it.
Kootchman..what the hell are you talking about. What "other peoples property" do I want to seize? You spout rhetoric that comes from watching Fox News. You see, I listen there, too, and I hear what you later come on and say.
Did you even read this article? No, I'm betting you skimmed...and then came here and blasted Obama one more time. This isnn't about Obama perse..it's about a repub speaking about the crazy repubs, the uncompromising repubs, the repubs that don't have the answers, are not creating jobs, and are contributing to the downfall of our economy. We all know what side you're on. If it doesn't put more money in your pocket, they're bums, and panderers. You, my friend, are part of the problem. You, my friend, are not all knowing, and don't have all the answers. You, my friend, attributed a quote to me that was not from me, but was from David Frum. Get it right, Kman, and we will have something to talk about. But, you jumped on me because I have been a thorn in your side in the past. You think me naive, and that's fine with me. That's your problem, not mine. But please, get things right when you post them. Ask yourself before you hit the "enter" button if everything you say is truthful and factual, and not just an unstantiated opinion. And, please, please, please don't make yourself and what you say and believe better and more important that the likes of David Frum.
Yea Jan.. You must listen to you very own very special Fox news... cause I havent seen a TV in 5 days...."A" Republican" does not sanctify the movement of liberal tax and spend policy. Nor does he dissuade many others. You posted it and you quoted it.. "sez you stands, you promulgated it as a truism. Obama is is the epitome of disingenuous liberal politicians... that is my opinion indeed! I dont have to find a supportive URL. I have but to see his results, his actions, and his pandering to make my own conclusions. Hack and a bad one at that.
redblack
Member Profile
"A" Republican" does not sanctify the movement of liberal tax and spend policy.
no, just massive deficit spending, which they can later blame on democrats.
"In the face of evidence of dwindling upward mobility and long-stagnating middle-class wages, my party’s economic ideas sometimes seem to have shrunk to just one: more tax cuts for the very highest earners."
frum says it all right there. republican rhetoric has strayed from its ideals of limited government and pretends that republicans have no responsibility to govern.
and what's your reaction, kootch? jan is absolutely right: instead of discussing how to make things better within your party and provide some leadership, you bash obama.
reliable as a rolex.
i mean, if you guys are so right, why are republicans in such disarray? you'd think it would be easy to tear down a president as unpopular and bankrupt as you claim obama is.
kootch...
i get that you have a right to an opinion...
but exactly what does the opinion that Obama is a "rank panderer" have to do with an article that talks about the takeover of the American political process by increasingly hostile rhetoric.
were you trying to prove his point?
Bostonman...
David Frum's comments about FOX news were observations by someone who once had a front seat to FOX broadcasting.
That makes his an informed opinion..
you don't have to agree with him..
but labeling his comments FOX bashing doesn't alter their informed content.
I was going to join in, but the 'discussion' has already deteriorated so badly that I'm gonna take a pass.
IF anyone else feels the same way, please take a minute to log in and comment.
redblack
Member Profile
i'm sorry you had to see such a vicious exchange, metrognome.
Bostonman...
and here are stats that back up Frum's contention.
it turns out that some news sources actually leave listeners less informed than those who watch no news at all.. substantially less informed.
http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/
the edu in the url means this is sourced by a University.. not a liberal think tank
I confess, we watch some FOX programming...there are a couple of shows hubby won't give up..
but FOX news?
it simply doesn't have that much entertainment value
metrognome...
The only way i know to rise above the rabble is to keep speaking up...
i suppose that doesn't work for you if you think I am the rabble... but you can always skip past unproductive comments
I am heartened that Republicans are beginning to speak up and try to take back their party.
Heck, just this week, two republican groups broke rank on Immigration reform.
i think they noticed all those latino voters up for grabs
waynster
Member Profile
Wait untill they republicans break ranks on tax increases and get into Norquist face thats when the fire works begain and they take back their party....yes Job after reading that article I have to agree there is a Santa and he is a republican with a good sense of whats bad in the GOP and who is seeing the light......
I was looking for your calculations on Verizon. As far as politicians go, a little common sense could go a long way for all involved.
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