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1. Jiggers
   Member Profile

   

   I don't want them to raise the debt ceiling. It won't solve a thing and only add more to the current deficit. Let the dice roll. I don't really care anymore.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

2. dhg
   Member Profile

   

   It will send the markets plummeting. The Republican overlords on wall street will not allow the Repugs to do this but Obama is doing what Obama does best: rolling over and getting his tummy rubbed. He's selling all of us out, agreeing to cut Social Security and Medicare.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

3. Jiggers
   Member Profile

   

   dhg...I don't know where you got the idea that Obama wants to do that..

   WASHINGTON (MNI) - House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said Friday she believes a "grand" budget agreement can be crafted, but added that such a deal should not impose "austerity" on a struggling economy and should not reduce benefits for Social Security and Medicare recipients.

   In comments to reporters at a briefing, Pelosi said she is hopeful a deficit reduction and debt limit agreement can be reached, but offered far more words of caution and skepticism than support.

   "I'm still optimistic" that a budget agreement can occur, she said, adding that "some level of optimism" emerged from the White House meeting Thursday.

   But Pelosi added that Thursday's meeting at the White House produced no tangible breakthroughs or indications the two sides are moving closer to an agreement.

   "We are having the next meeting" Sunday, she said as a way of explaining what was accomplished at the meeting Thursday between top administration officials and congressional leaders.

   Pelosi said any budget agreement should not impose a "slash and burn" approach to deficit reduction on an economy that is still struggling badly.

   "We can't do harm ... to economic growth," she said.

   Pelosi also said any budget accord should not cut Medicare and Social Security benefits and any savings garnered from Social Security and Medicare reforms should be channeled back into those programs.

   Pelosi did not rule out a shift to a chained CPI for calculating government benefits and tax bracket adjustments, but said any savings from this new formula should be dedicated to strengthening Social Security and other key programs.

   President Obama and the congressional leaders are working on a package that cuts the deficit by about $4 trillion over a decade and also increases the statutory debt ceiling.

   Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has said the debt ceiling must be increased by August 2.

   Obama will meet again Sunday with House Speaker John Boehner, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin, Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer and Pelosi.

   Vice President Biden and Geithner will attend the meeting as will White House chief of staff Bill Daley, and White House budget director Jack Lew and other administration officials.

   Pelosi said the meeting with begin at 6 p.m. Sunday.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

4. JoB
   Member Profile

   Jiggers...

   you care.
   we all care.
   watching the money in our wallets take a nose dive because our credit rating is devalued because the clowns in Congress feel the need to score political coup isn't on anybody's top ten list of things to do.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

5. JanS
   Member Profile

   

   some reads:

   http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/04/12/135314575/the-debt-ceiling-explained

   http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2011/04/01/the-debt-ceiling-explained/

   http://www.wisebread.com/stalemate-on-the-debt-ceiling

   and another view:
   http://capitalgainsandgames.com/blog/stan-collender/2104/dont-believe-scary-words-you-hear-about-debt-ceiling

   http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/23/news/economy/debt_ceiling_deadline/index.htm

   http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/if-us-govt-debt-ceiling-not-raised-----what-happens-multiple-scenarios/question-1423489/

   Are you sure, jiggers?

   Posted 10 months ago #         

6. Jiggers
   Member Profile

   

   All I know is there is 22 days to come up with a budget plan. Anyways, in another week watch the market tumble the closer to the deadline.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

7. JoB
   Member Profile

   another 22 days of huffing and puffing and blowing your house down..
   all to smear a president who picked up the turd left by their last fearless leader and tried to grow something worthwhile with it.

   those clowns had best be careful.
   their obstructionist political games just might backfire on them if the dollar falls.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

8. Bostonman
   Member Profile

   I am a conservative at heart but not doing something about the debt limit would be catastophic in the market. Not just out market but all the markets that own US bonds. All this stuff leading up to the deadline is just political fear tactics by all involved. I do think there are areas to cut but social security and medicare are not it. I also believe they could raise taxes or do different things to raise revenues in other areas.

   Unfortunatly not many politicians are thinking about the average american anymore. All they think about is how to keep their party in power.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

9. Jiggers
   Member Profile

   

   I believe its a scare tactic by both parties so they'll wait until the 12th hour that Tuesday Aug 2nd to say they got a deal made, but the public will be scared on Monday and the market will tank and if you got money, it will be a good time to invest.

   Posted 10 months ago #         

10. dobro
    Member Profile

    

    "... is just political fear tactics by all involved."

    No, its not all involved, its the republicans. They have ginned up a fake crisis and are playing these games because their number one goal is to make Obama fail. That's it. they don't care about the country, about our credit, about you or me. they had no problem raising the debt limit several times under GW Bush.Modern repubs are a treasonous bunch of criminals and what's going on here falls strictly on them and their power games.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

11. jamminj
    Member Profile

    thank you dobro... perfectly said!!!

    MCCONNELL: "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."

    Posted 10 months ago #         

12. jamminj
    Member Profile

    The tactics that the GOP are following: Jeffrey Kuhner: "Republicans must wage an all-out assault on Mr. Obama's presidency. They must pursue a scorched-earth strategy." He further stated that "[t]he duty of a loyal opposition is to oppose the governing party. It is not to help that party pass legislation or improve the economy's performance."

    Posted 10 months ago #         

13. velo_nut
    Member Profile

    

    So glad I grabbed all that gold 15 years ago.... Bring on the collapse!!!!

    Posted 10 months ago #         

14. Bostonman
    Member Profile

    Thinking that these kinds of things happen because of only one party being stubborn shows ignorance.

    The country doesn't use the debt ceiling to control spending. The only purpose is for government to get some warning signs about the direction of spending. So, was it right to raise the debt ceiling in the past. Probably not. Is it right to keep raising it? Who knows but eventually someone is going to need to pay the debt off.

    I am with you Velo, I bought it when it was $700 a long time ago.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

15. jamminj
    Member Profile

    "Is it right to keep raising it? Who knows but eventually someone is going to need to pay the debt off."

    there are already answers to pay the debt off, but guess which party decides to ignore it?

    Posted 10 months ago #         

16. Bostonman
    Member Profile

    There have been answers for 20 years. It keeps going up no matter who is running things and there is always a scapegoat. Currently revenues are declining so cuts need to be made or more revenues created. What needs to be cut and how to raise revenues becomes the negotiating platform. Republicans have different solutions than Democrats and they both think theirs is better than the other.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

17. elikapeka
    Member Profile

    The debt ceiling will be raised. Congress is bought and paid for by Wall Street interests, and Wall Street would be big losers. They don't want to see a default. So there won't be one.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

18. miws
    Member Profile

    

    No, its not all involved, its the republicans. They have ginned up a fake crisis and are playing these games because their number one goal is to make Obama fail. That's it. they don't care about the country, about our credit, about you or me.

    Basically the same thing they were trying to do to Clinton, and they had absolutely nothing on him.

    They got a bit of a lucky break though, when Clinton was dumb enough to let Monica crawl under his desk.

    It didn't result in his failure, but it left a bad mark on his record.

    And on Monica's dress.

    Mike

    Posted 10 months ago #         

19. dobro
    Member Profile

    

    "Thinking that these kinds of things happen because of only one party being stubborn shows ignorance."

    Do a little research yourself rather than spouting the "everybody does it" canard, and you'll find that this is not a case of "stubborn". It's a case of one side refusing to cooperate purposefully in order to achieve a goal- in this case, making Obama a "one-term President" (Mitch McConnell) and not giving a damn about you, me, or anyone else in the process.

    BTW, this debt ceiling is not about money yet to be spent. It's about money that we've already spent, most of it rung up on a couple of needless wars and corporate welfare. To fail to raise the ceiling is just about the same as having a nice big meal, bottle of wine, dessert, and then get up and tell the restaurant sorry, I've gone over my limit so I won't be able to pay for this stuff,tough luck sucker.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

20. chrisma
    Member Profile

    

    And guess who'll get to "work in the kitchen" to pay off that meal?

    Posted 10 months ago #         

21. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    I agree with post #19..Those idiots will come up with a plan, but what it will be is up in the air still.. I can't really see them wanting the country to go into chaos. The problem is also we keep printing money like its nothing.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

22. acemotel
    Member Profile

    

    ++++Dobro

    Posted 10 months ago #         

23. TDe
    Member Profile

    For those of you in favor of defaulting on purpose:

    1.. The ripple affect across global markets will be darned frightening.

    2.. Really? It's OK with you to borrow, promise to repay and then just walk away when there's an option? Great ethical message to send to younger people.

    3.. Glad you're all fixed up and ready for an economic problem. Do you not care a bit for the thousands who will be negatively affected? Sorry, but I just don't get the "let them eat cake" attitude. Who in their right mind gleefully wishes chaos and misery on this country.

    Didn't the citizens of this country used to view that kind of thinking as treason? Maybe I'm reading too much into history and looking too kindly on the patriots of old who wanted only the best for this country; those who put the welfare of the United States before their own political self-interests.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

24. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    Obama press conference on debt ceiling live on national TV this morning. The market is starting to tank...faster than I thought.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

25. DP
    Member Profile

    

    So what does the stock market have to do with reality anyway? I'm so tired of hearing about "Wall Street this" and "Wall Street that."

    We need to start moving away from an economy that lurches up and down based on what's happening in China or Britain or Saudi Arabia. We need to get back to an economy that has more to do with values and human relationships than it has to do material things. That's what America used to be, not so long ago. That's what it could be again.

    In the meantime, Wall Street and everyone who makes a living off speculating can go straight to Hell as far as I'm concerned. They're nothing but a bunch of parasites, anyway.

    Gold hoarders: Good luck defending your "stash" against the mob. How much does it cost to build an armed compound these days, anyway? Probably more than you've got.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

26. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    Obama isn't going to sign a short-term deal. He's all in like they say in poker. You can't just put a band-aid on it and expect the bleeding to stop.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

27. Ken
    Member Profile

    

    Republicans knocked down the recovery months ago. They are just trying to strangle it now.

    Economy Faces a Jolt as Benefit Checks Run Out
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/11/business/economy/as-government-aid-fades-so-may-the-recovery.html?_r=1&hp

    More 99'ers every week.

    Also note: Who created the European Debt crisis? US Banks and their forays into CDO's (Collateralized Debt Obligations)

    Markets Tumble on Europe’s Debt Crisis
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/12/business/daily-stock-market-activity.html?ref=business

    And yes, if Republicons continue to hold the Debt ceiling vote hostage to cutting programs which don't use any money from the general fund, then yes they can finally strangle the new deal and make corn pone fascism appeal to the masses of teabaggers which seems to be their goal.

    Also note the graphs above. Not much of a tumble so far but you don't get eyeballs on your cable sites by being reasonable.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

28. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    Obama today came out this morning and flat out said that if we don't have a plan in place by Aug.2nd, $23 billion Social Security will not be paid out on Aug.3rd.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

29. elikapeka
    Member Profile

    "After years of discussions and months of negotiations, I have little question that as long as this president is in the Oval Office, a real solution is probably unattainable," Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell said in remarks on the Senate floor. Taken from an article at http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20078766-503544.html.

    The true Republican agenda is finally coming out. These guys would rather tank the economy and cause hardship to the people just so they can regain political power. I've never seen our politicians so completely out of touch. Even my mom, a life long Republican and a child of the Great Depression, has washed her hands of these guys. It's really sad.

    But I still say their Wall Street paymasters won't let them do it.....they'll get a deal done.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

30. Bostonman
    Member Profile

    He also said this

    "Republicans will "do the responsible thing" and make sure the government does not default on its obligations on August 2"

    I don't think its any secret the republicans don't want to raise taxes. I also don't think its any secret that democrats want to raise taxes. Tanking the economy would ensure that neither party would have control politically which is a lose lose situation for all of them.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

31. dawsonct
    Member Profile

    Exactly elika, and when they ARE in power? Their ONLY agenda item is "how can we syphon as much of this Nation's collective wealth as possible into the pockets of our benefactors?"
    Republicans hate Americans.
    They are the party ONLY of the oligarchs and corporatists, and the overwhelming majority of people who support them reap absolutely ZERO bennefit from their policies.
    Wake up, dupes.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

32. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    

    Why is Mitch McConnell the only one to talk about this? He states (paraphrasing) that "The President gave us 3 options....smoke and mirrors, raise taxes, or default...Republicans choose none of the above..."

    Our two party system...with the TP wild cards thrown in - all trying to be SELF serving party liners - not People serving.... will never accomplish anything productive or truly impactful to the good side.

    The continued posturing from all sides is sickening.

    Why do those cronies continue to get elected after what they aren't doing?

    Those party leaders sitting around the table for 4 days for the cameras & soundbites and not accomplishing anything? Are you kidding me...?
    Supposed secret deals on the golf course? Ya..that will fly...

    There is not one elected representative that has a clue on what it means to make sustainable progress without worrying about what it means to their party...

    It is just math & law...some simple...some really complex...There are so many non-partisan pure mathmatical / economic / finance / legal experts in our nation that can be brought in to consult on the right way to handle our issues in the short and long term...why don't we pull some folks in from MIT or NASA to put a real working plan together...?

    Posted 10 months ago #         

33. jamminj
    Member Profile

    "why don't we pull some folks in from MIT or NASA to put a real working plan together."

    that would be great if it all possible. But we have let this country become an oligarchy, and anyone that wants to step in with any REAL ideas... they need to backed by $$$, and to get that money... one needs to side with a party. Look what happens to the independents who try to run.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

34. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    

    Well...if roughly 1/3 of the voting public doesn't see their SS check in a couple weeks...there will be many changes in 2012...

    Posted 10 months ago #         

35. charlabob
    Member Profile

    

    If only they had a "none of the above" line on the ballot for federal offices...(s)he would win in a landslide. Among other things, the talking heads/media would explode - worth the price of admission.)

    Posted 10 months ago #         

36. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    Tell me that there is not one Republican who doesn't have a family member that isn't on some type of government program like Social Security or Medicare. Hypocrites!

    Posted 10 months ago #         

37. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    

    Charlabob...I believe there was a comedic movie about 20+ years ago with that very premise - Richard Prior starred?

    Posted 10 months ago #         

38. 365Stairs
    Member Profile

    

    Not sure why this notion just occurred to me...The president says he can't guarantee SS checks will go out on Aug. 3 - relative to this lack of a "deal" on debt ceiling talks...

    hmmm....

    However...if (when) another national disaster strikes someplace...presumably after Aug. 2...there will be the magical emergency funds available and all sorts of decisive action taken...

    Why is this and any other major economic political decision come down to the 12th hour...? Are there not any forward thinking people whos only purpose in this life is to crunch the numbers on what it will take to make the machine run?

    Posted 10 months ago #         

39. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    Anyways, let them raise the debt ceiling and pass the buck down the line. I don't care how they do it, just do it..

    Posted 10 months ago #         

40. jamminj
    Member Profile

    "debt ceiling and pass the buck down the line."

    It doesn't need to be passed down the line. There are some very simple fixes to fix the deficit. The first is to let the bush tax cuts expire, letting the new health care law take effect, and change the medicare pay out rates. Just doing these things will help tremendously.

    The sky is NOT falling.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

41. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    
    
    

    Posted 10 months ago #         

42. dawsonct
    Member Profile

    I would include NOT providing FREE security services and interdiction for the global oil corporations. That would save a few BILLION.
    ---
    Please "capitalists," defend the need for these massive corporations to get free services and HUMONGOUS tax breaks from the American people.
    Last time I checked, the word was that if a company needs support from the government to survive, it was not a viable business and should be allowed to succeed or fail on it's own merits.
    ---
    Oh, right, Republicans LOVE, LOVE, LOVE those humongous multi-national corporations, AND HATE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
    Feel free to TRY and prove me wrong.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

43. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    The Republicans are stonewalling on the debt issue only to make Obama look bad.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

44. Bostonman
    Member Profile

    Well Dawsonct, I am republican but I am not going to defend those tax breaks. I don't think they should get tax breaks. That being said if we just remove the subsidies they will just increase prices to keep profit margins the same. We need a secondary mechanism that will keep prices stable while removing tax breaks.

    I am not in favor of more government regulation and a takeover of the companies but removing the speculators from the market is a start. I wouldn't remove a profit tax from the table but it would really need to be phased in so it doesn't hurt smaller companies.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

45. JoB
    Member Profile

    Bostonman,

    an honest price might just be subject to market competition...

    Posted 10 months ago #         

46. JoB
    Member Profile

    America doesn't have a debt problem
    it has a jobs problem

    why don't we tie all corporate tax breaks to the production of American jobs?

    Posted 10 months ago #         

47. Bostonman
    Member Profile

    JoB, I agree with you to an extent. In a normal company and in a true capital system price will determine competition. The problem in this case is oil exploration, refining and selling is such a capital intesive industry there are too many barriers of entry to get good competition.

    Now, if you are refering to alternative fuel types for energy then that is possible. The biggest problem is the government doesn't build the infrastructure to support electric cars. Plus those cars are still expensive. Plus if we are dealing with $7 gas and $200/ barrel oil for a few years before the alternative options pick up that would be enough to sink the economy even further.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

48. Jiggers
    Member Profile

    

    Now Obama has the green light from Boehner to raise the limit. You know its a tactic, so, if Obama fails, they can point that finger..Damned if you do damned if you don't. Poor Barry.

    Posted 10 months ago #         

49. waynster
    Member Profile

    

    Lets just let the tea baggers have their way default on all the treasury bonds. Gold will sink to lows so far even the rich will cry foul. When we hit the speed bump and the wheels come off as the world will sells off the U.S.dollars. Should this happen just who will pay for it all. No not the politictians. Nope as always the middle class will whats left of us. Now go ahead and protect your precious tea baggers. Wait they will be busted to retirements gone.... If they raise the debt limit do some cutting and force corporations to hire instead of laying of for share holder profits and to drive profit margins up.. Just maybe we can survive this.. to do nothing is to kiss your tea bagger and cash good bye.....

    Posted 10 months ago #         

50. Ken
    Member Profile

    

    Baggers keep repeating wingnut talking points like they know what they mean.

    Let's look at the CBO research in chart form: (pdf)

    http://cboblog.cbo.gov/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/SummaryFigure1_withnotes.pdf

    Posted 10 months ago #         

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