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1. Smitty
   Member Profile

   Wow. Just........wow.

   More taxes.

   http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016241176_citysalaries18m.html

   Posted 8 months ago #         

2. JanS
   Member Profile

   

   so..what are you saying? That they aren't worth it? That they should have it taken away? Are you saying that if you were in their shoes, you would refuse something like that?

   I am not saying if I agree with it or not. I want to know what you really feel about it. In regards to firefighters and police, are you saying that putting their life on the line at times for you should not be compensated accordingly? Just want to know how you really feel.

   Posted 8 months ago #         

3. Smitty
   Member Profile

   Kids are dying in the Middle East for half that amount, so no, they are not worth it. I highly doubt people choose to be policeman or firefighters because they can make 100K+ per year. Maybe, but I doubt it.

   Hell, let's just set the minimum wage at 100K a year and we will ALL be happy! Right?

   Posted 8 months ago #         

4. kootchman
   Member Profile

   Hell no they aren't worth it... this bs about police and firefighters... they have less injury and a longer life span than a delivery truck driver... it's the taxes ... the taxes... the using of our police to enhance revenue ... see the proliferation of speeding tickets, spy cameras at red lights... $124 parking tickets... remember the moronic attempt to charge 20 cents for plastic bags? Every conceivable revenue enhancement strategy... city workers.. creating higher fees, to support their inflated salaries... negotiated by public employee unions... and then all the force of government powers to collect those fees.... there is a good way to increase employment .... tax away the business base.... drive away the employed .... see Newark NJ, Detroit, Cleveland, LA .... hollowed out shells. 100K for a bicycle co-ordinator... just what we needed. Add a hefty 40% on top of that for benefits and pension.. but we have nice little green boxes painted on the streets... terrific. (probably will have to hire ten more DoT workers to repaint them next)

   Posted 8 months ago #         

5. kootchman
   Member Profile

   During the last year for which data are available, a total of 39 firefighters died while on-the-job, a fatality rate of 4.4 per 100,000 workers.

   Police 11 per 100,000 ( 5 non pursuit auto accidents)

   Roofers
   Fatalities per 100,000 full-time workers: 34.7
   Injuries per 100,000 full-time workers: 5,300
   2009 Average annual employment: 179,500
   Average salary: $41,200

   Farmers/Ranchers

   Fatalities per 100,000 full-time workers: 34.7
   Injuries per 100,000 full-time workers: 5,300
   2009 Average annual employment: 179,500
   Average salary: $41,200

   8. Driver/Sales Workers and Truck Drivers: 21.8 -- Up from #17 in 2008.

   Posted 8 months ago #         

6. JanS
   Member Profile

   

   interesting article about men's wages...does this piss you off, guys?

   http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2011/09/poverty-figures.html

   Posted 8 months ago #         

7. DBP
   Member Profile

   kootchman, I want to THANK YOU for connecting the dots between Seattle grocery bag fees and the decline of our major cities. Others might have doubted your ability to sniff out the truth on this, but not I.

   (Personally, I think the Bilderbergers were in on it too, but I'm not going public until I have more proof.)

   ********************************************************************************

   In all seriousness, I agree with you and Smitty on public salaries. Many of them are just too high. However, are you suggesting that salaries be tied to mortality statistics? That doesn't seem right.

   Cost and length of education — as well as other job prep — has to be figured into salaries as well. These days firefighters are often expected to have college degrees, and they have to do some pretty rigorous studying and training before they can even be considered for the job.

   Roofers, on the other hand, can probably start after a couple weeks of OTJ training. So it doesn't surprise me that roofers would earn less than firefighters, even though they both have hard and dangerous jobs.

   BTW, you might want to check your stats for roofers vs. farmers. I'd say the odds are pretty steep against them being correct.

   Posted 8 months ago #         

8. skyhook
   Member Profile

   For firefighters, keep in mind that their work schedules are set up so that they can hold a job other than firefighter. Being a firefighter, for the most part, is a second job. And, they get overtime at the drop of a hat.

   Posted 8 months ago #         

9. JoB
   Member Profile

   Hey guys.. before you get all righteous...
   are thos city salaries or what that selected group of city workers made after overtime?

   yes, overtime.

   in their zeal to trim budgets jobs have been eliminated while the work grew...
   the inevitable result? overtime.

   It would be interesting to see how many hours those employees averaged a week.

   Posted 8 months ago #         

10. kootchman
    Member Profile

    DBP... no... I don't .. but they trot out the line "they put their lives on the line"... See post #2 from Jan ... now... "they" have started to tag the phrase... firefighters, police and teachers... sorta to get us used to the idea that these very very... lucrative, cush jobs are soo deserving. BTY I see the TEA... is breaking the law... and violating a court order... Fine em; and jail em'.... that;s what the rest of us get for flipping the bird to the judge. Hefty one too...

    Posted 8 months ago #         

11. kootchman
    Member Profile

    I did check the stats.. I copied and pasted from DOL and Statistics... although any insurance company who underwrites pension funds will post the same. Fishing is still the highest.

    Posted 8 months ago #         

12. redblack
    Member Profile

    

    from smitty's link; just want to emphasize a few things in this article.

    Overall, as the city continues to contend with a dreary economy, it is looking for ways to contain expenses. Total payroll last year, for example, dropped by $38 million.

    But even as the belt-tightening occurs and some wages are frozen, the city is paying out for what was negotiated before the recession — salaries that make Seattle more competitive with other jurisdictions.

    The police department saw a big jump in six-figure employees in 2008 — from 265 to 684 employees. That year, officers agreed to a new contract hailed by former Mayor Greg Nickels as a "major milestone" for police pay.

    Officers received 12 percent raises, including an 8 percent retroactive raise for 2007. A veteran officer at the top pay grade would have made about $80,000 before the new contract, Bracilano said. Add raises provided for in the new contract and some overtime and that officer could well have topped $100,000 in pay.

    The trend continued at the fire department and City Light.

    At the fire department, the biggest increase in six-figure employees came in 2009, when firefighters won a 6.2 percent raise.

    The size of City Light's six-figure club more than tripled in 2006. That year, members of City Light's largest union received an 8.3 percent increase in salaries, with most of that retroactive pay for 2005. Overtime at the municipal utility also exploded that year, from $10 million to $24 million.

    Outside of police, fire and City Light, where workers with dangerous jobs commanded high pay, most of the city's $100,000- workers wore white collars. They were executives, managers, strategic advisers, information-technology specialists, engineers and lawyers.

    Their ranks actually declined last year from 724 to 492 — a drop of 32 percent.

    Firefighters led the city in median overtime per employee last year, with $10,949 — more than twice as much as police. Unlike other city departments, fire-department overtime has steadily climbed over the last decade.

    That's because it essentially has been built into the firefighters' work. Their 2008 contract calls for four firefighters to work on all trucks at all times. If one crew member is out sick or on vacation, another firefighter is brought in on overtime to fill the requirement.

    By contrast, if a police officer patrolling Ballard calls in sick, O'Neill says, there's just one fewer cop on the streets. Overtime for police is driven more by special events, such as parades and big games, or high-profile crimes that involve intensive investigations.

    but, please, feel free to keep running around with your hair on fire while braying platitudes.

    or you could actually read the entire article. this is not a scandal. at least, not in the way the conservatives are thinking.

    Posted 8 months ago #         

13. kootchman
    Member Profile

    gotta break those unions... or they will break us.

    Posted 8 months ago #         

14. redblack
    Member Profile

    

    yeah, kootch, and maybe you should understand what you're talking about.

    homework example #1:

    what is washington state's obligation to public employee pensions as a percentage of the state budget?

    "that's not class warfare. it's math."

    Posted 8 months ago #         

15. JoB
    Member Profile

    kootch...

    next time you are in trouble
    call a fisherman

    Posted 8 months ago #         

16. JoB
    Member Profile

    Kootch

    you know what bothers me most...
    this whole conversation just reeks of entitlement

    you want services
    but you don't want to pay for them

    you think the great god of business makes an employee more valuable than public safety because they generate profit...

    I would put to you that our public safety workers generate profit because without them both businesses and individuals would have to assume the full cost of creating safe business environments and educating their workforce...

    Oh.. i forget. they outsource and don't have to pay for a secure work environment.
    The US Military does that for them..
    and when they don't do it well enough..
    the public pays for the cost of subcontractor security for them...
    and business takes a hefty cut off the top.

    that just reeks of entitlement to me

    Posted 8 months ago #         

17. Michael Waldo
    Member Profile

    An interesting fact: about 20% of Seattle non-goverment workers also make $100,000 a year. The union workers reflect the private sector wages. It was banks and Country Wide and traders and two unpaid for wars that tanked the economy not police, firefighters or teachers.

    Posted 8 months ago #         

18. JoB
    Member Profile

    Ah... perspective :)

    and i have to add my smile for the day...
    Elizabeth Warren said exactly what i said somewhere lately..
    that business seems to have forgotten that it benefits from the services that the public provides...

    Posted 8 months ago #         

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