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12 inches is good!

Started 2 years ago by Duckitude
Latest reply from Mtotobird

Duckitude
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Provocative enough title? This post is about street parking and the distance a person generally needs between a car in front of them and a car behind them to get their car out of a parallel spot they have parked in.

Recently, I was jammed in by two cars. One literally slightly into the plastic of my front bumper, and the other, 4 inches from my back bumper. Of course, I could not have parked my vehicle that way unless you think I can lift my van into that tight of a space (the Hulk, I am not).

So, I discover this situation as I walk out to go to my office and see patients on a Friday morning at about 9:30 a.m.

I figure, I can't get out, so I might as well see what the law says about this and take my time. The car smack on my front bumper did not have a car alarm (too bad). I did just about everything I could to set one off if it had one. That would have helped. No luck.

So, I call 911 hoping that this was the kind of infraction that would require a tow and an impound. NOT! Perfectly legal, as they say.

The story is longer, but the conclusion of it all was, "Jacking someone's car by sealing it in so it can't be moved and so the driver can't get to work is perfectly legal." Not even a parking ticket. Not even "inattention to driving" -- I mean they did drive it to get it into that position where they have essentially hijacked my car for a period of time.

I am sure many others have experienced this kind of absolute careless parking.

I am thinking if it illegal to park more than 12 inches from the curb why isn't it illegal to park less than 12 inches from a car in front or behind you?

I suppose because if you had it in for someone, you could park close to them, call the police and have THEM ticketed? Probably, people would actually think of those kind of things.... ugh...

So, I had a video of the person parking their car right up against my front bumper. Doesn't count.

Anyone else up for getting Seattle to pass a law for ticketing such careless parking? Let me know. Thanks, Ron

Here's a pic

http://www.ronsterling.com/ParkingViolationForWSB.jpg

Posted 2 years ago #
Semele
Member Profile

So, maybe parking like that isn't an infraction at this time, but isn't parking the wrong way a street illegal?

I know your pain, someone did that about a month ago to my husbands vehicle, we didn't recognize the car so knew it wasn't one of our neighbors and bad enough after we were able to drive off we were able to see the damage the other person's car did with his license plate on the bumper. I am completely with you on this one.

Posted 2 years ago #
Duckitude
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Yes. Between the police person and the parking enforcement person who showed up, they decided to give a ticket for parking the wrong way...

To me, the parking the wrong way infraction is the one that needs to be off the books for residential areas. Makes no real sense.

Yes, people argue that parking the wrong way can be a safety issue for reentering the street because you will, for a brief time, often be in the wrong lane while you cross into the right lane, etc., etc., but it still makes no real safety sense. I doubt there are any statistics that show more accidents take place from "parking the wrong way" than otherwise.

And, that particular infraction is open to heavy abuse by people who just want to make pain for you in your own neighborhood.

It is as "ridiculous" as ticketing people who have parked their large trucks with "safety" as the most important issue, by putting the inside wheels up on a curb. For residential streets such as found in West Seattle, such parking should be lauded, not ticketed. It allows for much safer passage in most areas than would otherwise be possible. Yet...

Rationality seems to not reign in the traffic citation world...

Posted 2 years ago #
dhg
Member Profile

We differ a lot on this, Duckitude. First: parking on the wrong side of the street is a very bad thing. It is difficult for the driver, when pulling out, to see oncoming traffic and any accident with a car going in the same direction would be a head-on collision rather than a glancing side blow. It could be the difference between a fender bender and whiplash. 2nd: for those who consider themselves heroic for parking their truck on my green strip: Get a smaller vehicle. I don't maintain the green strip so you can safely plant your tires in it. If your vehicle cannot fit safely on the street then move along and come back when you're driving something smaller.

Posted 2 years ago #
Duckitude
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Ooops... sorry about the parking on someone else's green strip. I wasn't very good on that one. I forgot about that concept -- I was thinking in terms of parking on your own green strip. Duh... time for another cup of coffee...

I was thinking more about ticketing that occurs without a call from a resident. Sometimes, parking enforcement just goes through a neighborhood and tickets without a complaint being registered.

Yah, parking on someone else's green strip to be "safe" would not be so cool... sorry...

More coffee please...

On the parking in the wrong direction thing... okay, it would be a head on, but one could argue it would be very unlikely to happen, since while facing forward you would have even a better view of oncoming traffic than facing the other way. I am just saying, I think it is a wash from a safety standpoint. Got any data on that?

Posted 2 years ago #
Sue
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Growing up in NYC, I learned to park in amazingly tight spots. However, I've always been very conscious as to whether the parked cars in front of and behind me have enough room to get out. I will get out of my car and take a look at the situation - do they have extra room on the other side? I'll do this before I even turn off the car. It's really not too hard to think of others.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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Well, I think you should have called parking enforcement in the first place, not 911. As far as the infraction, it is easy to prove that they were parked in the wrong direction. I find it hard to believe there's no law about parking too close to another vehicle, but in many cases it would be hard to prove who got there first.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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...and regarding the title of your post... Just as many drivers try to compensate for their personal inadequacy through their choice of large, loud, gas-guzzling vehicles, they also may come up short in their estimation of 12 inches when parking.

Posted 2 years ago #
austin
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At what point does contact between two cars become a collision? If a person parks their car "into" yours, there is damage, and they leave, would that not be hit and run?

Posted 2 years ago #
Duckitude
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Heehee... yah, Freud would love you, KBear...

Posted 2 years ago #
Duckitude
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On the damage issue: Yes, there was a scratch, but, it has to rise to $750 worth of damage to constitute the kind of damage that would be considered "hit and run" or a towable car, according to the official personnel who showed up after my call.

I called 911 because I did not have the other non-emergency number. They routed it to parking violation, parking violation showed up first and thought it was towable and damage, and they called the police. Then the police showed up. It was all very faster than I had ever experienced such assistance, but, just must have been that kind of day.

This was a slam dunk as to who got there first. In the video, you can see the person inching right up as close as they could. So, they didn't do it fast, or even move the van at all when they put it where they did. They did it, of all things, purposefully. Never seen the car before, never seen it since, but they were clearly visiting somebody close by. Oh, and they left more than ten feet behind them to the driveway behind them.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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"Oh, and they left more than ten feet behind them to the driveway behind them."

That's odd. From what I've seen, Seattle drivers never miss an opportunity to block a driveway, even when there's plenty of room to park legally elsewhere.

Posted 2 years ago #
austin
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So if there is less than $750 in damage it is not considered a collision? That seems strange.

Posted 2 years ago #
Lindsey
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That driver must not really care for his or her car. If I parked my car like that, I'd expect some damage when I returned. I'm not suggesting you carelessly attempt to get out of that spot, but that's absolutely what I would expect if I parked like that.

Posted 2 years ago #
Duckitude
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Austin: I thought it was quite strange, but I don't have time to fact check the "official" word from the policeman at the scene.

Posted 2 years ago #
Briana
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I absolutely hate when people park extremely close! Recently a car parked in front of my fiance's truck leaving about and inch of room and the person who parked behind him actually ran into his tow hitch, denting their license place and remained pushed into it, didn't even back up. And there was a driveway behind them, which they were too close to as well.

I agree that there should be a minimum distance, possibly not a random ticketing offense, but one that can be ticketed when reported. So a traffic cop can't just drive down the street and hit all cars, but if it is called in than a ticket can be given.

Overall, leaving another car enough distance to get out should just be common sense... unfortunately, many people lack that...

Posted 2 years ago #
dhg
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Duckitude: I don't have any data, no stats. But when you park your car on the left side of the road and there's a car in front of you (esp. for instance, a ford f250), you absolutely cannot see what car is travelling straight towards you. If you park on the right you can (if you must) stick your head out the window to see oncoming traffic.

Posted 2 years ago #
Duckitude
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dhg - yep, I think I get it now. You are absolutely right. Review mirrors are better in the parking situation than trying to see through a vehicle. Conclusion: Parking in the wrong direction should be an offense from a safety standpoint.

Posted 2 years ago #
hoffanimal
Member Profile

What about parking on a "green" strip bewteen your house and your neightbor's when the said strip is paved? I don't get why this is a problem. I got a warning from parking enforcement on this. I sometimes park on it when my kids are playing basketball in our driveway. We live at the bottom of a hill on Trenton near 16th and westbound cars come roaring down it. The way I figure it's safer for the car to be up on the strip than out in traffic. In theory the car on the street slows traffic down, but in practice that doesn't work.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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You're not supposed to pave the whole thing, and you're not supposed to park there. If it was paved without permission, the city can make you remove the pavement.

http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/cams/CAM2304.pdf

Posted 2 years ago #
hoffanimal
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I did not pave it; it was that way when we bought the house. I tore up and planted the larger strip in front of my house several years ago.

Posted 2 years ago #
Duckitude
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Hi: I don't personally see a big problem with parking on your own strip, no matter whether it is paved or not... other people's strips, yes, yours, no. I suppose that wouldn't be a good idea of there are water meters or other city or state equipment located there, so that should be taken into consideration...

Some strips aren't big enough and sidewalks should not be blocked for anyone, even if you are parking in your own driveway but parking across the sidewalk part of your driveway, because it makes for safety hazards for walkers, kids, wheelchairs, scooters for the disabled, etc.

But, then, I missed some really good points about parking the wrong way earlier, so I may not have much credibility here...

Take care, Ron

Posted 2 years ago #
flowerpetal
Member Profile

Almost always, parking strips are not "your own." Parking strips are City property which you are obligated to maintain. And now I am guessing... but I presume that vehicles are not permitted on parking strips because this damages vegetation, sidewalks, etc.

Posted 2 years ago #
JoB
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i am still thinking about how you would measure those 12 inches:)

does a man with a size 12 shoe have a 12 inch foot?

Posted 2 years ago #
Aim
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Hoffanimal: for what it's worth, as your neighbor, I appreciate when you or the other neighbors park up on the strip. Our street is so narrow in some spots that it's a feat to get out of some of the driveways when there's a car parked on the street.

On the other hand, like you said, parking on the street slows down the @$$clowns who come flying up and down the street WAYYYY too fast when your kids (or anyone else's) are outside.

Guess either location has its pros and cons.

Duckitude, I feel for you on being "parked in." I am the not so proud owner of two license-plate-bolt sized holes punched right through my rear bumper by a jerkoff parker, and a large number of deep gouges in the paint as well from the same. It's definitely >$750 to have something like that repaired. Annoying, too.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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"I presume that vehicles are not permitted on parking strips because this damages vegetation, sidewalks, etc."

And it creates an urban hillbilly aesthetic which many neighbors resent. It may help you to understand better if you refer to them as "planting strips", which is what the city calls them, rather than "parking strips".

Posted 2 years ago #
alki_2008
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@dhg/duckitude - what about when only one side of the street has parking, and there's barely more than one lane of traffic in the "street". In that case, is there really a "correct" side of the street to park on? It would mean going all the way to the end of the street and then pulling into someone's driveway to turn around in order to park on the 'right' side of the street in such cases. And since there's essentially one lane of traffic, then pulling out either way poses the same danger (traffic can be coming from in front or behind you no matter which way your car is parked).

@duckitude - the issue I can foresee with ticketing that type of parking would be situations like...you park 20 inches from the car in front of you, that car leaves and another car parks and reverses to only 6 inches from the front of your car...who would the parking officer ticket? Your front is only 6 inches from the back of the car in front of you. Do you get the ticket, or the car in front of you? Parking enforcement would have to witness the parking job to know who to ticket.

Posted 2 years ago #
Duckitude
Member Profile

Hi Alki: Like I noted earlier, I think there are situations in which parking the "wrong" direction is safer than otherwise, or, at least equally safe. However, as noted by other comments here, those are somewhat rare situations. Hopefully, and, as far as I can tell from this last experience and other sitings of parking enforcement in our neighborhood is that they are loathe to ticket "wrong" way parked cars. They could have ticketed several cars for that in our neighborhood and have chosen NOT to. In this instance, they really wanted to ticket the driver who parked into my front bumper, but couldn't for anything but parking the wrong way.

Would I have called in the car for parking the wrong way? No, no one does that in our neighborhood, even though we get tons of that going on here since we live right at Lowman Beach Park. However, locking you in, and essentially kidnapping your car is another issue entirely. Making you late to work is another thing. Screwing up important appointments is another thing.

On the issue of ticketing such in your face parking carelessness, in this day and age of video surveillance, we now often have the evidence of who parked when and how. In fact, there are now video cameras that are so small and mountable on your dashboard that you can pretty much record most of the day as you drive along, park, etc. In fact, I don't know if it is standard equipment on any cars yet, but I bet continuous video recording will be an option you can get on a car pretty soon, if not already available.

In this particular case, as noted above, I had the video that showed the exact time, the exact parking style, etc. Slam dunk ticket or tow as far as I am concerned.

People who are so careless won't likely learn from a minor parking ticket that that kind of parking can really screw things up for someone unless the get towed, car impounded, or a large fine.

In fact, this person was so oblivious, they got back in their car later, with a ticket on the driver's side windshield, under the wiper, and drove off not even noticing it. Ummm... not sure what they are smoking or drinking, but it must be powerful stuff...

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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It doesn't matter whether there's parking only on one side of the street, or how wide the street is, or whether you think it's safe. It's still illegal to park facing the opposite of traffic. However, it is understandable that many people don't know this, considering how little the law is enforced in Seattle.

Posted 2 years ago #
moxilot
Member Profile

During a recent trip to Portland, I learned about 'maneuvering zones'... because I got a ticket for being in one. In parallel parking areas, there is a two or three foot gap between every two spaces marked with yellow striping and your vehicle cannot extend into that area. This way, no matter where you park you will have a reasonable amount of room either in front of you or behind you to get in or out. I don't think the city paints the residential areas, but they definitely stripe the downtown curbs.

After the initial frustration over the ticket, I thought it was brilliant.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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It wouldn't work here. Seattle parkers can't see lines on pavement.

Posted 2 years ago #
alki_2008
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@KBear, when there's only one lane...and traffic goes in both directions (ie, both north and south) in that one lane, then what's the "opposite of traffic"? That's my point. The traffic is in both directions.

For example, driving up Bonair from Alki Ave...you'll see that parking's on the left side only. If someone's driving up this road (from Alki Ave), then do they need to go all the way up to a point where they can turn around (not easy there) and then drive down the hill to park? Or would parking while facing either direction be "okay"?

@Duckitude - I completely agree with you that oblivious and discourteous drivers that block people in SHOULD be ticketed, but it's just the logistics of doing it that I question.

Posted 2 years ago #
KBear
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Alki, you park on the right, with the passenger door toward the curb, unless it's a 1-way street (not just narrow 2-way) AND parking is allowed on the left. So yes, in your example, you DO have to turn around to park correctly. That's the law, anyway.

Posted 2 years ago #
bsmomma
Member Profile

When I was little I remember finding this little piece of paper with a picture of Mickey Mouse sticking up his middle finger and a saying below it along the lines of "Thanks A-Hole maybe next time you could leave me a can opener." I think that would be appropriate for this situation! :)

Posted 2 years ago #
Mtotobird
Member Profile

This reminded me of the time I parked my tiny little 70's Honda Civic on my way to the beach in La Jolla, CA. I probably parked too close to the car in front of me. When I returned from the beach the front of my car had been picked up and swung out into the street, with no damage and no skid marks, and I had a ticket for parking more than 12" from the curb! Since that lesson, I am always aware of leaving room for other cars when I park!

Posted 2 years ago #

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