jans..i am afraid i have become right cynical..

ellenator.. i might agree with you if we were getting the kind of health care reform that would justify that kind of sacrifice. we aren't.

Laconique..absolutely right.You know, if it was a procedure that men got that was this important, we all know that they would be up in arms over it. How dare us take away one of their rights. But men from the beginning of time have been doing it to women...and we just sit here and accept it...because it's for the "greater good". What a way of looking at things. If I truly believed that it would be addressed later, I might not argue about it..but I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. It'll end up being one more thing, like the ERA, that never gets done. Oh, my...that sounded right cynical, didn't it?

Ellenater, that is exactly my issue- in many states elective abortion is ABSOLUTELY covered by insurance, public and private. So this is not a "pay for it yourself like you always have been" kind of situation, it's *taking away* benefits that millions of women already have! That's insane and the exact opposite of what health care reform was supposed to be about! Yes, we need to move forward on this issue, but this is absolutely a regressive move designed to effectively make safe, legal abortion completely inaccessible to millions of women.

when the mother or fetus is in trouble, insurance will pay, I would think.Perhaps it won't for an elective abortion, but if it's a medical necessity, why should a woman have to dip into her pocket. This is a legal medical procedure, for goodness sake. Anbd, as Mr. Full Tilt said above...if men can have viagra , etc. paid for because they can't get it up, then there shouldn't be an argument re: women's issues. If we don't speak up, those in power will think that we agree with them and everything is hunky dory. We need to let them know how we feel, even if it doesn't change things (which it probably won't - because we are still second class, dammit! )

I totally disgree. We have to start somewhere. Abortion is not currently covered by insurance. Period. So pay for it yourself and quit complaining. Yes, we need all the rights, etc. But trying to get it covered is detracting from the issue of HEALTH CARE. We need a start. We can perfect it later. Freaking out about this is why things never gets done.

From this morning's inbox :))))
something positive we can do.

http://capwiz.com/pdamerica/mailapp/

be sure to visit their main page and read the article connected to this action alert...

I, too, am disappointed in our democratic leadership. I really had high hopes for some meaningful reforms to happen. What has transpired is anything but. I definitely feel sold out on the abortion rights issue. I am a staunch Democrat, but I will never, ever, vote for a candidate who is not pro-choice, supposed Democrat or not.

Laconique..

IMHO

only a lie told often enough that it "becomes" truth...

what breaks my heart today is that liberals are now participating in that lie.

The stats on abortion coverage surprise me. I used to work for planned parenthood in Massachusetts and was often responsible for calling to verify benefits for patients. MassHealth- the state-run combo Medicaid/CHIP health insurance for low to medium-income residents (which a LOT of our patients had) covered elective abortion 100%. In fact, most private insurance companies did as well, at least a certain percentage was covered. The only ones that did not cover it were the Catholic insurance companies. So I'm confused as to how people say that no government money currently funds abortion. I know Massachusetts is an oddity (thank god Mitt did at least one thing right) but is it that unusual compared to other states?? Maybe I'm missing something very basic here...

sent to the DNC this morning...

"You keep asking democrats to send you money to defeat the lies of the republican party on health care.

What i want to know is where a good democrat is supposed to send money to help defeat the lies of the democratic party regarding health care?

You have never had a clearer mandate from the American public, republican and democrat alike, for health care reform than you do now. Yet, you squander your political advantage by giving us a health care bill that any good republican could have crafted and expect us to reward you by sending money to every democrat whose seat is in jeopardy in the next election.

There isn't enough spin to cover the stink emanating from the current state of democratic health care reform. All one has to do is watch the rising stock prices for health care insurance providers to verify the weakness in this "reform" package.

Why should we send good money after bad?

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me."

we have been sold the idea that if we don't take what's offered, we will get nothing...

we are being sold the idea by the democratic party and most of the liberal organizations that find their way into my mailbox these days that the current health care bill is a victory and we should be sending our dollars.. 5 here.. 5 there.. can you spare me more.. to re-elect the democrats who have given us this travesty of health care reform.

the liberal agenda has moved so far to the right that good solid liberal legislators like Dennis Kucinich... a voice of reason in the house who said no before he said no to the war... looks like a radical.

compromise is good, but any good negotiator knows that you don't throw away your strongest hand before you set down to the table to negotiate. Yet the Obama Whitehouse refused to even give the single payer option a seat at the table before crafting their starting position.

The healthcare reform bill as currently presented to us could have as easily come from a republican congress in our current political climate if they had won the last few elections. It follows the republican agenda so closely that they barely bothered to craft a competing bill and have had to resort to idiocy to refute it.

the democratic party leadership has stepped on it's... foot... once again and totally sold out those who elected them... and they want us to celebrate?

What are they thinking?
what are we thinking?

full tilt knows wassup

KBear and Lindsey..

Women are sacrificing too much for the rising insurance company profits included in this bill.

if we are going to sell ourselves once again, it ought to be for something worthwhile...

The ERA is still not the law of the land in these United States...

and at this rate it never will be.

I have spent a lifetime fighting for equal rights and am not happy to see them sold down the river by my own party... Our representatives need to hear a resounding NO.. Hell NO!

KBear - hate to break it to you, but the current health care bill is most certainly NOT universal health care. But it's a step in the right direction.

It's ridiculous that women's rights were sacrificed. Abortions cost much less than carrying out a pregnancy, never mind the consequences of carrying a baby to term that is not wanted.

The Republican campaigns state that they are so against the "genocide" of abortion, but guess what? Their health care plan through Cigna covers abortion and has SINCE 1991.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/12/rnc-abortion-health-plan/

http://www.slate.com/id/2235120/
Good information here...also includes this statement FullTilt:
"...But in fact, 46 percent of all recipients of employer-based coverage receive coverage for abortions, including 48 percent in HMOs and 44 percent in PPOs, according to a 2003 study by the Kaiser Family Foundation."

Women will lose coverage for a pefectly safe, affordable, medical procedure that is considered part of a reasonable women's health care plan. Not only now, here in the U.S., but many European countries also include abortion coverage as part of a health care plan (who also, BTW, have a much healthier citizenry than the U.S. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4025)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-02-07-euroabortion_x.htm
In Germany, France, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Great Britain and other countries — 19 European nations in all — abortion is legal and available with few restrictions. It also is legal in many former communist countries, such as Slovakia and the Czech Republic, though abortion rates there are dropping as a result of greater access to contraceptives and growing anti-abortion sentiment.

Our current Rep is not a blue dog and I am pretty sure is not going to go along with this like the opinionators try to imply.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll884.xml

Neither are the female reps unless some visible arm twisting is done by the leadership.
http://boldprogressives.org/stopstupak/p-e1

I advise sending clothshangers to Stupaks office.

However, it does make clear that financing the challengers to blue dogs is a priority. Except in Louisiana where there really is no difference between Democrats and Republican

Brian Baird is the closest one. And even he voted against this travesty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Baird

Stupak amendment is an organized attempt to push the anti choice agenda by christianist conservatives. But it is just a small part of the theocratic goal of the organization that crosses party lines.

http://open.salon.com/blog/stellaa/2009/11/10/the_face_of_the_new_democrat_stupak

This is the male side of Full Tilt, and I am not trying to play devils advocate here. Isn't it true that most insurance does not cover abortions? It is also true that most insurance does does not cover birth control, of any sort. So, since this "reform" is based off of the current health care industry, it is not really a surprise that they are not going to cover abortions. They will cover Viagra and Cialis though. So I can can have my limpness treated, but my female counterpart can not protect herself from the consequences of that.

Right now we have Group Health, but before that our insurance would not cover pap smears, or really anything female related.

This bill is a sham. We need socialized medicine. Every person in this country needs health care, not just a fleeting chance at some over priced shitty health care "system". This is the only country in the world where you can lose your house if you get ill, or if you are destitute AND sick, you are screwed. The repugs can say what ever they want about Canada and France, but I would give anything to have their system.

And consider without woman these politicians would not be here. I don't understand why people feel that they can tell a woman what she can and can't do to her body.

I told Mom the other day that the minute a man can have a baby a man can tell us if we can have an abortion.

and adding to KBear,

this is why we've never had a president who happens to have female anatomy

and why we have laws like "everything but marriage" (why the heck NOT marriage!?!?) and even they frequently don't pass

and why pharmacists can pick and choose whether or not to fill Rxes for women that they don't "belive" in

and

and

and

Sometimes I feel like weeping and crying out, "why does our country (and most others) hate women so much?"

Sometimes we live in a sad sad state.

It is unfortunate that they have chosen this course, BUT...

Consider the value of universal health care.

Consider who would be voted in if we voted our current representatives out.

Remember that rights and benefits are usually gained a little bit at a time.

The perfect is the enemy of the good. This is one of the reasons we don't have universal health care already.

This op-ed in today's NYT speaks what's in my head...and it makes me angry. I cannot believe that the Dems agreed to this...tells me where I and all other women stand with them. All women out there who believe as I do need to start speaking up. This is too important to let slide:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/opinion/12michelman.html?_r=1&th=&adxnnl=1&emc=th&adxnnlx=1258081419-n5ufu9tiPL6qLVRlQmF9/g