You're killing me....I do miss all of the above. It's finally in the low 80's now so I can get out and explore this vast space of desert.

i was thinking of smoking in the rain... but i bet you miss a good drizzle now and then.. i did when i lived there.. and the ocean.. and real mountains.. and forest.. and green... and...

wish i could have all that and sunshine too:)

JoB - ? My cravings for cigarettes or rain?

How is that someone is at 95% of restaurants in WS at all times, following employees in and out of the building, out of view into the kitchen, observing whether they wash their hands?

I find the implied stalking more worrisome than smokers.

Edit: And if you are exaggerating, that's the whole problem with this entire thread.

jiggers...

anyone who works around food should know to wash their hands frequently before and while handling food..

they should also know not to double dip with the tasting spoon.

alas.. too few do.

Leroniusmonkfish..

hard to find rain in phoenix except for monsoon season.. do you save up to satisfy your summer cravings?

Leron..Newsflash..That would be about 95% of those establishments in West Seattle you are talking about.

Don't patronize those establishments. Or, bring it to managements attention with the threat of contacting the Dept. of Health....

I'm a fan of chefs,bartenders and waiters who smoke during breaks. Give me more love in that drink or nachos baby!! Don't wash your hands please. The food is not as tasty if you have clean hands and fingers.

Well, if he does I want him to know that I was only joking! Pearl Jam is one of my favorite bands and he has all of my respect. My post was just another attempt to show how vehemently anti-smokers can be towards those of us who do.

I was actually offered a ticket to their recent Key Arena show by a friend who got the tickets personally from EV...my friends mother recently passed away and EV out of kindness, friendship and sympathy gave his family tickets. Alas, I now live in AZ and couldn't afford the plane ticket to come back to Seattle for the show....

But if/when they come through Phoenix I will be first in line for tickets...

Wonder of Eddie reads the blog...Eddie, you out there?

I jest! I'm a dirty, filthy, kicked to the curb in the rain smoker...

Leroniusmonkfish...

really? one cigarette at the Memorial Stadium or in the Key Arena? You must have had REALLY good seats.

Either you jest or it was the principle of that one cigarette.

Admitted, he was breaking the law... but to an addict, satisfying their addiction has nothing to do with showing disrespect. It really is all about them and their need.

If that was what it took for him to be able to perform and his music wasn't worth that to you then i understand... but it it highly unlikely that his decision had anything to do with respect.

Leronius - inhale the smoke at the concert and you'll feel MUCH BETTER!

And I have an issue when rock stars like Eddie Vedder of Pearl Jam can walk onto stage smoking a cigarette exposing tens of thousands of paying fans to his second hand smoke! I covered my mouth and nose when they played years ago at Memorial Stadium (outdoors) but when he displayed that same kind of loathing disrespect towards his fans at the Key Arena (indoors) I just had to up and leave the show.

Great, now I can't get that painting of dogs playing poker out of my head. They're probably gambling, too!

i've been looking for a good write in candidate:)

Junction Joe for mayor.

junction Joe..

you make me giggle...
but i bet there is still someone who doesn't agree..
maybe the dogs.

OK then, no unleashed, smoking, flatulent dogs roaming wild in West Seattle parks where children play. I think we can all agree on that one.

FancyNan..

you and i agree completely about off leash dogs. Leashes are protection for both people and dogs.

i just wish unleashed children wouldn't run up to my dogs without permission:(

hubby smokes outside and away from doorways to protect the health of his wife and others who are affected by tobacco smoke residue.. not because he doesn't like the smell... He doesn't smell it at all... tho the residue is bad enough that i want to place a hook outside for a coat dedicated to smoking in the winter because to me it reeks. The poor man literally has to wash his hands to touch his wife... he pays a heavy price for his habit.

Smokers for the most part don't smoke to annoy other people.. they smoke because they have become addicted to nicotine and for whatever reason are unable to permanently quit.

When people don't walk around clusters of smokers on the sidewalk, they really don't have any other place to blow their smoke but where those who pass will breathe it ...

it's a shame that there aren't places similar to cigar bars where they can light up in peace.. they really were forced outside where they have little choice but to share with the rest of us.

Most tobacco smokers are a lot more aware of the impact of their smoking on others than those who douse themselves with their favorite scent and set out to get lucky:(

I am glad that i am no longer forced to share indoor spaces with smokers.. but blaming smokers for polluting outdoor spaces really begs the question of where they can safely light up.

By the way, the issue for me is people who bring their dogs to public parks where children play and take them off leash and let them run wild around the play areas. A little dangerous for the small children.

The other issue I have is with people who smoke and cause others to have to walk through or breath their second hand smoke, which is toxic and just smells nasty. What I have always found fascinating is that most smokers hate the smell of cigarettes on their clothing. They rarely smoke inside their homes or their cars (unless they are exceptionally clueless) and do not want that smell on their clothes, car interiors, or in their homes. But they typically have no issue with sharing their smoke with other. It is truly a shame that this product is so addictive. At least we are more informed than earlier years.

As for the farts….well, no need to really go there.

LOL..

my family just got three strikes.. guess we're out :)))

i don't fart in public if i can help it but as i age the control thing gets more difficult :(

hubby smokes.. tho he chooses to politely take himself to the nearest trash receptacle... well away from doorways to indulge his habit.

the dogs fart in public... and that is the least of it.. LOL.. at least i can bag that..

recapturing a fart is like chasing a rainbow for the pot of gold :-<

but good luck with that :)))

People who fart in public are next.

Fancy Nan..

so we throw out the smokers and the dogs.

What's next?

this is one place where a picture might be worth a thousand words.. but maybe not.

i wish you had asked for one of her cards.. i'd love to know who not to hire ;>

chef, I wonder if any of Cancer Lady's clients are WSB readers and will recognize her from your story. Here's hoping...

chef- perhaps Fancy Nan got thrown off by your reference to a 'play area'. there is a nice kids play area directly adjacent to one of the parking lots at westcrest. ( up top near the small dog area of the OLA)

Fancy Nan- uh, Westcrest is a dog park, not a people one. Just wait until a dog burns his paw on one of her cigarette butts!

Not the theme of this thread - but today this same smoking irresponsible dog walker lost one of her dogs at the park!! This poor little dog was whimpering and shaking at the front gate while Ms. Thing was puffing away in another part of the park!! The dog got out with other people four times and was put back in by passers by. The dog was terrified to be at the park! It took the lung cancer poster child 25 minutes to realize one of her dogs was missing, and when she came up to the person holding the dog and a cell phone, she got in their face and said "You didn't call her owners did you?" Like geez, no thank you for getting the dog, etc..... I wish the person had called the owner and told them that their dog walker was too busy sitting on her butt smoking to pay attention to their dog.

If that isn't testament to what smoking does to your brain, I don't know what is.

Chef—Dogs in parks?!? Don’t get me started!

There is only one thing that bothers me more than smokers in parks, and that is dogs in parks. Is it not bad enough that the dogs have taken over the playfield at Pathfinder School? They should change the name of that playfield to “Dog Poop Park.” Don’t even think about walking around that playfield barefoot.

What’s next, are people going to start bringing their rats to parks and letting them run wild while they enjoy a cigarette next to the bouncy bridge?

I don't smoke, and certain personal health conditions make second hand smoke bothersome. but, regardless of whether smoking is a lifestyle choice or an addiction, I think that smokers are running out of places to smoke..

I really like that I can go to certain bars and concert venues without having to stand around in second hand smoke all night.

but if someone is smoking outside on a public street, one can make a choice to cross a street if they want to avoid it but walking by them

<< doesn't take that long >>

it's not like you are working somewhere filled with secondhand smoke, or forced to hang out in smoke for an extended period of time.

A few months ago, while out to eat, we had parked outside of the Admiral pub. there were people standing around outside smoking of course- right outside our car. one guy actually apologized, saying, I'm sorry, I usually don't smoke around kids. I was surprised but I didn't really care, we were only there for a minute.

my smoking pet peeve is when smokers smoke in their cars, which in turn get sucked into my car through the heater / AC, but of course outlawing smoking in cars is a crazy idea. and yes, I realize driving in my car, running the AC is harmful too so no need to go on and on about that again.

Junction Joe, a reasonable comment. Are you in the right place? The jungle gym, play area restriction seems like a great compromise. I would support that. Not as a law necessarily, but a park rule with posted signage.

An additional rant to the dog walker at WestCrest who has a bunch of little dogs, marches them to the center play area, and then sits on her ass for an hour puffing away on her cigarettes while the dogs roam about aimlessly. If that were my dog, I wouldn't want it around someone who is puffing smoke in their nose. Geez - I can't believe people pay this woman to pollute their dogs.

And yes, I have said something to her face about it and she was pretty nasty in her reply.

Interesting debate. Wonder if more people would have participated in the thread if "Smoking" were spelled correctly?

Frankly, I do not care if people smoke outside of bars and restaurants. I'm just glad that we can enter indoor spaces and breath clean air. Remember the days when you sat on an airplane in the "non-smoking" section and the guy behind you was smoking in the "smoking" section? And what an improvement it is to be able to eat a nice meal in a restaurant and taste the food, instead of smelling the smoke.

I am all for the banning of smoking in smaller parks where children play. I am still amazed that people smoke around children in parks. I saw a lady at Hiawatha Park pushing a swing with her child in it while a cigarette was hanging out of her mouth. Scarry. I think smoking should at least be banned within 50 feet of jungle gyms and sand boxes. Perhaps that’s a reasonable start people can live with.

We've already debated that one.

http://westseattleblog.com/blog/forum/topic.php?id=5881

Hey, terrific, lively debate everyone! Really good stuff here. How about banning smoking in Seattle public parks to protect our children?

http://seattlepostglobe.org/2009/07/30/city-councilman-considers-proposing-smoking-ban-in-seattle-parks

This really great idea is being proposed by Seattle City Councilman Tom Rasmussen. This has been successful in Tacoma and Gig Harbor, as well as 100 cities in California. That would be a great way to protect little ones from the dangers of second-hand cigarette smoke.

Thanks JoB. It's ok though. I don't take it personally. It's just a lazy way to communicate when you're not interested in anyone's opinion but your own. Kind of like yelling at me for participating in this conversation, when they can't seem to stop themselves.

I don't know how to make it any more clear that rude smokers are wrong and I'm not condoning it. Guess I'm just not hysterical enough.

It is not polite to call anyone a liar about their personal information... there is no excuse for that.

If bluebird say they are not a smoker.. that comment should be taken at face value.

If the only way you can make your point is by casting aspersions on others.. you don't have much of a point.

Lil addendum:
Could we get by w/out
"You guys are acting like you are (literally) mentally retarded." in #76? It's offensive.

This thread is brought to you tonight by the word fallacious.

.

Go Dawgs!!!

bluebird: You seem awfully invested in this issue for a non-smoker. I share Fancy Nan's suspicions.

Looking back through the threads I can't tell where you "corrected" me. I wrote "within 30 feet of a smoker." The last time I checked 18 inches and 6 feet were within 30 feet of a smoker. To date no scientific study has proven that being 30 feet from a smoker is safe. Of the limited (but growing) research that has been done on outdoor smoke exposure, most have commented on the difficulty and limits of the equipment and measuring methods in something as infinitely variable as air. As municipalities continue to push for outdoor smoking bans I expect the testing methods will improve.

Though I find your arguments about buses, lawnmowers, SUV's (as well as fat and trash) to be largely fallacious, you do raise an excellent point about other sources of pollution in the air that should be of great concern to everyone. I applaud our government's efforts with new clean diesel rules. And more locally, I've appreciated the City of Seattle's efforts with offering ships at our ports ways to plug into local electricity so that they can turn off their engines in port as well as the increased number of garbage and recycling trucks that run on cleaner-burning natural gas. Wood burning fireplaces, charcoal cooking fires, and the small gas engines in lawnmowers and leaf blowers can all produce harmful pollution and I'd hope that their use (especially in densely populated areas) will shift to lesser or non-polluting alternatives.

As I fortunately don't seek my sense of self-worth in the approval of complete strangers who don't know me (personally or professionally) your mention of the loss of respect sounds as silly to me as when texas brought it up. When you're out on the sidewalk puffing away with your pals and slandering someone you've never met (and whom they've never heard of) I expect it might sound a bit funny to them too.

:-)

I'm with bluebird too….against stupid--especially stupid people who stand in front of storefronts and stink up the air with cigarette smoke with no consideration of health risks they pass along to others.

bluebird..

i think you have said it in a nutshell..

i'm not pro smoking .. i am pro consideration..
on both sides of this issue.

I believe smokers should make more of an effort to move out of doorways and not share their smoke with the rest of us...

and that those who are offended by smokers should cross the street or hold their noses..

i'm with bluebird..
i am against stupid.

Not for smokers fancy, against stupid.

Bluebird....congratulation, you are the most passionate “non-smoker” advocating for smoker’s rights. Good luck with your uphill battle.

LOL bluebird..
and what do yo really think ;-)

I don't smoke. I don't minimize the danger of smoking. I corrected your 30 feet crap and you proceeded to misquote me, with quite a bit of disdain and disgust. You obviously read the link I DID quote from, cuz you used material from it to keep arguing.

You can't seem to process that not a single person thinks smoking or second hand smoke is safe. That no one thinks you should force it upon others. No one thinks you should have to pass through it to gain entrance to a building. I should say, no one here.

Based on that, we don't get why so many of you are so pissed off. The only thing remotely advocated was the concept of walking around an offensive activity when possible, and get on with your life.

When you prefer to scream "who the hell are you to blah, blah, blah", it does indeed sound like a big arrogant hissy fit. I never once suggested I should be allowed to tell you what is a tolerable level of toxins. You made that up all by yourself and I have certainly lost all respect of you personally and professionally after the way you've treated me and everyone else in this thread who dared to disagree.

Lecturing on how you put no merit in a forum discussion but we're all supposed to honor your information. You've made it beyond clear that you don't care about my or anyone else's thoughts, but I obviously have a big mouth and plan to share my experience.

texas: I'm not sure if you took the time to read my posts in this thread as you've missed some of the nuance. I've said that though I wish people wouldn't get addicted to cigarettes in the first place, I really don't feel the need to tell people what they should do with their bodies in the privacy of their own homes when it doesn't affect anyone else. My anger was more directed at the people who minimize the real dangers of cigarette smoke to non-smokers and who are discourteous to those around them who would prefer not to breathe sidestream cigarette smoke. I'd hardly characterize that as rigid intolerance. I have friends who are smokers. But I'm fortunate that they are considerate enough to not disregard or minimize my desire to breathe their effluent.

I included the facts because they are sobering and because I think they serve as a foil to dismissive arguments about the harm that cigarettes do.

Tobacco smoking has exacted a high personal cost in my life. That motivates me more than a desire to claim any kind of expertise. And while I appreciate your concern, I require neither personal nor professional advice from complete strangers on Internet forums. But thanks anyway. I try to do my best to communicate in the most effective way. But I expect that, like most people, I don't always succeed. However you should know that I also don't subscribe to some bourgeoise fear of letting myself be passionate or angry about something if that is naturally how I am feeling. I expect that if anger, passion and attitude truly had the power to damage personal and professional lives then the lives and careers of most WSB Forum members would be a trail of ruin. :-)

The part of your post that I think most squarely hits the nail on the head is the part about preaching to the converted. That was the wisest thing you wrote. This is America where no one's mind is ever changed by debate. Seems like the only way to win the game is not to play.

I hope smoking doesn't kill off the "weak" soon. My mom is a smoker and I certainly don't want to lose her... Oh but she's a dying breed, right!? LOL!! Get it? Because smokers kill themselves?! That's soo funny!

This thread has made me lose faith in people. The amount of indignant, entitled, and downright RUDE attitudes have ben astounding. How convenient that you aren't addicted to something that's not easy to quit.

News flash, haters: Lots of us are going to die from cancer. Horrible, horrible, painful cancer. Secondhand smoke (which is VERY RARE now in Seattle) is the least of our problems.

Bluebird....you're not foolin' anyone. Have another smoke and chill out.