Two weeks ago a dog that got out its yard mauled a younger, smaller dog to death across the street from my house. The bigger dog went up to two boys walking their dog on a leash, picked it up in his mouth, and shook the little dog until he killed him. The owner thought the bigger dog was under control and "had never done anything like that before." I'm a dog owner and understand the urge to believe a dog will stay under voice control but after watching a dog be killed in front of me and the anguish that it led to for these boys (and probably will be there for years), I am never letting my dog off the leash outside my fenced yard. You just never know what dogs will do and despite your best efforts, they will never be perfect.

I know this has been dragged out, but I'm just curious as to what area of WS this took place in. I may know this dog and owner and am becoming concerned with the dog's behavior. The dog is incredibly agressive with other dogs and I'm worried about signs of her being agressive towards people as well; I also doubt the owner is strong enough to control the dog in an "attack."
Just curious, thanks.

BIRD SEED!!! let me know if you want a cure to dog poop forever!!

And Iams hadn't been invented.

Animals roamed this earth way before humans…

Yeah, and?

They weren't people's pets then.

also, take a photo of a couple of scoops of full tilt ice cream

pink feathers..

it hadn't occurred to me to take pics of people with unleashed dogs with my cellphone...

of course, most of the time both of my hands are too busy holding the leashes of my two leashed dogs to take pictures.

Animals roamed this earth way before humans…. Why not put some leashes on the unruly kids that run around.

I think this topic has been Leashed to death on the WSB…… Call Animal Control if it’s an issue and get the name of the person. Animal control will write a ticket if they know the name of the owner and the type of animal off leash. If luck has it, will also get licensing fees if unpaid……Animal control (206) 386.PETS

I believe they will even accept a Picture from you cell phone if clear enough. If enough people will call in and complain they will start patrolling the area more.

johnnyblegs..

yes, Full Tilt is that good.

try it for yourself.

Funny you should mention that, Jiggers. I was just down at Lincoln Park, and saw the usual at least three or four off-leash dogs.

On my walk along the beach trail between Lowman Beach, and Colman Pool, I saw two people with large dogs ON leash, that jumped aggressively at each other. Couldn't really tell if it was playful aggressive, or "I wanna piece o' you" aggressive, but, these people had enough trouble keeping the dogs apart, on relatively short, strong leashes (And one person had *two* large dogs!) I could only imagine what would happen had any, or all, off those dogs been off leash.

On my way back, through the upper park, I was walking along the cliffside trail that overlooks the beach, and a guy with a small dog on leash was approaching my direction. His *other* small dog was *off* leash, jumping up the side of a tree, apparently interested in some critter up there. The guy was calling to the dog, but not in a real forceful way, and was pretty much continuing to walk away from the dog and the tree, as the dog stayed there, continuing to jump, for probably a good thirty seconds that I saw. (I guess the on leash dog must me the poorly trained one, that doesn't respond immediately to voice commands, and thus needs to be leashed! ;-) )

Now, admittedly, I don't confront the scofflaws on this matter, because I go down there to walk, relax, and enjoy the beauty of the park and beach, and don't want to ruin it for myself, by confronting others, and possibly getting into an argument. Mostly, because, I figure I'll get a shoulder shrug as you did, an "F you!", or simply ignored. I have to say though, I came close on this one. And, I'd *definitely* confront the owner, should the dog behave aggressively toward me, another person, or another critter, domesticated or not.

Mike

I see it all the time at Lincoln Park. People let their dogs roam free. Once I was casually sitting on a bench on the main head trail, the damm dog came right up to me and started barking loudly for no friggin reason. I was startled because I wasn't expecting that. It also wasn't leashed and I told the girl its supposed to be leashed here. She just shrugged her shoulders. I would love to ticket owners with dogs who aren't leashed. Someone needs to be out there policing the dogs and owners. 4 out of 5 owners don't have their dogs leashed in Lincoln Park. That's a gold mine writing up tickets wise. I wonder how much the fine is with no leash on because it is a law isn't it.

Looks like the Bubba Gump Shrimp Boat got bored with his own post and left for open waters.

I haven't tried Tilt. Is it good?

Ya know the one thing that's even better than pig ears? Eating pig ears off leash!

Mmmmmmmm.........Kitty Roca! ;-P

Mike

Me and my cats will provide the toppings! :)

In my hypothetical someday home with a yard and less city and people that freak out about animals, my dogs will RUN WILD around my yard. So I guess I side with the "troll" on this one.

tart>pie>cake

Unless

tart>dense moussie cake>some pie

Warm apple/peach pie with ice cream>everything else in the whole world.

Cake > pie discuss.

@WesCAddle: Oh, no! Not you, too! :)

The Cake is a Lie

ummm...no comment about the dog owner...but Full Tilt? he**, yeah !

bubba..

substitute calculated for controlled in my post...

same comment.

Full Tilt lovers...

i am ready for a Full Tilt run.. either white center or columbia city will do just fine for a wsb meet-up :)))

I like turtles.

hopey....don't you get in between me and some full tilt ice cream cake.

"A dog that will do anything for you even if it means going against their own desire or comfort zone is a real asset."

that sounds nice but doubt you'd ever find a 'biddable' pit bull. it wasn't a 'biddable' dog that came flying out of its front door at me and my little 15 lb. (leashed) dog. but, lucky for me it was a friendly pit bull. wasn't sure at first though, judging from the frantic screams of the owner coming from the door.

full tilt ....when? which one? want to see the new one?

Birthday cake ice cream at Full Tilt!

This thread bores me and is now about cake.

http://www.geocities.com/farmcollie1/biddability.html

what is a biddable dog? a contractor's dog?

So I'm a troll and Moxiegirl's a persecuted saint near as I can tell it isn't the presentation it's whether or not the board nanny brigade agrees with the stance.

I can't wait until you guys decide the turn signal law is a public safety issue and it too needs a neighborhood task force.

Why do you all keep feeding the troll?

Job, please reference where I mentioned "controlled circumstances" in this discussion. I don't even know what that means. Do you really think you make a good point when you just make crap up?

Nannies indeed Vincent...what took ya so long? We need another Aussie in the discussion.

None of your leash opinions matter, there is no leash law on your private property. Go west seattle nannys anyway!

Biddable dogs can be trained to be under voice and/or whistle control in the most chaotic environments. No controlled circumstances necessary.

Bubba...

wow, were you working your dog off leash in controlled circumstances while entertaining your parents on your deck?

Interesting example Bofus, what we need to add to that is the fact that these dogs are trained for this activity and this is when the owners know the routine. Certainly when these dogs are taken to a different situation where appropriate they are leashed or crated. Reasonable people act reasonably. Unreasonable people make up wild scenarios and suggest that when you say you work your dog off leash at calculated times you really mean your dog is running loose 24/7 looking for an opportunity to disembowel 3 year olds.

It may be difficult to believe but dogs can be trained to be completely under voice control. I have witnessed English Springer Spaniel field trial dogs that are steady in very stressful situations (flushed birds, other dogs working, firearms being discharged, etc)where your average dog would certainly not be under control. This control is paramount in field trial success and is absolutely amazing to watch. The dog, when commanded to stop, will not move until released. Other dogs, flushed birds, whatever, may be right next to the dog but the dog won't flex a muscle! So, my point is that it is possible to have a steady dog that is under complete control. This control comes from consistent, daily training that is enforced at all times without exception...

Bubba-love your sarcasm and tend to agree that the hyperbole from leashed dogs is often over the top. A leash in and of itself does not mean your dog is under control. I have a little 12 pounder that I wrestle with constantly, to attest to that.

On the other hand, horrible consequences can occur if you have at all misjudged the situation. Today's KOMO headlines feature this exact scenario and the leashed dog died.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/52477442.html

One compromise suggestion, at least have a short leash on your dog (while attended, of course) so there is something to grab a hold of in an altercation. The woman in this story was pretty bitten up as well from trying to save her beloved pet.

I realize to you, one story is possibly just anecdotal, but if I were the story I would be inconsolable at the loss.

There is one way our dogs are like our children.

No matter how well we train them, they continue to have minds of their own...

and the stricter we train them to obedience, the more likely they are to get into trouble when they slip their leash.

Treating a dog like a dog includes understanding their limitations..

and creating a safe environment for them to be dogs.

Hmm My neighbors fully voice controlled, unfenced bull mastiff was a paragon of virtue and obedience.. until that one day I had to rescue a 7 year old from the top of my car. Good thing he made it to the top of the car.

My now dead Rottweiler was a loving companion and fierce protector to her family/pack but I never gave her the chance to get scared, upset or off the leash outside her fence or the dog park.

Give us your address so we can send animal control over to view this perfectly voice controlled marvel.

Bubba - no I do not think that. Anymore than I think that every time I get in my car I am going to get into an accident, or every time I get on a plane it's going to fall out of the sky, or every time someone picks up a gun they are going to kill someone. But it does happen. You cannot say your dog will never attack anyone. Chances are he probably never will - but you're not just taking chances with your dog's life by leaving him unleashed - you're playing the odds that something won't happen. Just because I haven't been hit by a drunk driver yet doesn't mean I never will.

Bubba's just trying to piss people off. Hopey said it best.

Marg, you really think that all dogs are barely able to restrain themselves from chasing down and disemboweling you and your 3 yr old?

the world is scarier than I thought I amazed you people leave your homes.

Mmmmm. The yummy troll flesh has been exposed.

(No, not you, MargL.)

lol - Maybe Bubba doesn't even have a dog and he's just posting this to push peoples buttons. It sure does work! I find myself wanting to make arguments like:
Bubba says: "He's a dog, I treat him as such. He is neither a child nor livestock and I don't treat him as either of those."
I reply: "Oh, but you do treat your dog like a child! A child that can listen to reason and understand why they should not bark or run after that other dog over there, because they could get hurt or hurt others! Do dogs listen to reason? When instinct takes over can they stop and say, wait - I should not do this? Like you and hopey both said, nothing is 100% in training a dog."

then I find myself wanting to go on...
Bubba says: "Since I don't have breeding livestock I'm not concerned with the same issues you are."
I ask: "What does that mean? You bring up the livestock issue a couple times. Are you saying you are -not- training your dog not to hunt and bite things that run? Because that's probably something someone who -does- have livestock would do. If this is the case, I hope my 3-year-old daughter and I never ever go past your house while your never-can-be-100%-trained dog is out running around his yard."

and lastly...
Bubba says: "Go ahead an argue for your limitations, just don't argue for mine."
I reply: "But we're not arguing for your limitations. We're arguing for your dog's! Yes, you are a good owner. You've trained your dog, you care for your dog, you want him to be 'happy' by not leashing him. But - unlike the saying 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people', dogs -do- kill people. They are dogs and they act on their own. No matter how much you care about your dog I do not think you are doing him a favor by forcing him to decide between hunt/kill instinct or the training you have given him when the end result could be something like having to put him down for attacking a small child on the sidewalk or in the park, let alone another dog. What consequences are you really ready to accept?
I think the reason for Government and associated laws in the first place are to save us from our own stupidity."

I think I'm done now... now other folks with pushed buttons can continue this discussion :-)

it's never been a mystery to me that some people spend their whole day looking for excuses to be pissed off.

I've always wondered whether some people walk their dogs off leash just to piss people off. Now I know.

my my it is such a big scary world out there.

[/yawn]

Bubba..

what do you do to prepare for slip ups when you are on the deck and your dog is at the property line?

How would you have handled the situation if the woman had dropped her leash and her dog had invaded your yard and your dog decided it was a higher priority to defend his yard and you than to obey your command?

Or.. worse yet, the other dog had attacked and your dog was too busy fighting for it's life to respond to your command?

And.. is your dog ever in the yard when you aren't physically watching? What happens if a situation develops that you know nothing about?

I do think the woman walking by was very out of line yelling at you because she couldn't control her leashed dog... and i too wish that more people would train their dogs.. even if they walk them on a leash.

But i also know that training isn't everything.

I train my dogs constantly... and still i have to be incredibly vigilant because on occasion their prey drive is stronger than their training...

i worry about those who rely on voice control or even invisible fences. invisible fences are invisible to intruders and many animals tolerate the jolt to reach their prey...

that is.. if it is activated. Many people stop activating their fence once their own dog is trained.. forgetting entirely about those wandering the neighborhood.

So i share the concerns hopey voiced...

And hope you never find out the hard way that voice control and training sometimes aren't enough...

Darn, I just had that oil to the boiling point to pour down the ramparts. You people are entirely too civil.

Hopey,

I'm surprised that you want to hear from me since you didn't manage to read what I wrote the first time. I specifically explained that I prepare for slips on the dog's part, nothing is 100%.

Since I don't have breeding livestock I'm not concerned with the same issues you are. I'm not quite sure why you want to color my issues with your own problems...that's kind of the point of my post. Go ahead an argue for your limitations, just don't argue for mine.