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(17 posts)

Peace Post #5: Van Jones and the Green Economy


  1. DP
    Member

    Van Jones has a strategy to build a clean energy economy. Why is that so scary?

    A couple months ago Van Jones, White House Special Advisor for Green Jobs, was all over the news. The right wing noise machine had been attacking Jones since July—ostensibly because he had once signed a petition calling for further investigation into the 9/11 terror attacks, but in reality because he had founded an organization, “Color of Change,” that in 2009 (two years after Jones left the group) had organized a successful boycott against the corporate sponsors of Fox TV’s Glenn Beck program. Jones resigned from his White House job early in September.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/31/glenn-beck-uncovers-van-j_n_249044.html

    Many progressives were shocked that the Obama White House could be so easily intimidated by right-wing attacks. However, both the White House and Jones said that it was Jones’ decision to resign. The he said / she said of the attacks and counter-attacks continues, even on the Wikipedia site.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Jones
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Van_Jones

    What always seems to get lost in this kind of media fireworks display is a serious discussion of the issues that we face as a nation. In this case the real issue is not 9/11, Glenn Beck, or even Van Jones. The real issue is climate change. The actions we take in the next few years will have a huge impact on successive generations. In fact, the future of life on Earth could depend on decisions we make (or fail to make) in the next few years. Scientists tell us that we have reached a tipping point in our output of greenhouse gases: 350 parts per million (ppm) of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

    (http://www.350.org/understanding-350)

    As the atmosphere warms, we are beginning to see the melting of the Arctic permafrost. As the permafrost melts it releases methane, which is even more harmful than CO2. Increased concentrations of methane will push up the greenhouse gas ppm count even further, leading to ever more intense weather patterns and hastening the rise in sea levels. These events will be followed by global famine and a variety of social and political crises as successive waves of refugees move to those places where life is still tolerable. It’s a scenario that will exceed the worst nightmares of apocalyptic Christians. Unlike the Christian vision of Hell, however, this is no scare story. It’s real.
    And if the world ends this way, in the whimper of an eco-apocalypse, rich and poor will suffer alike. Christians will fry right alongside atheists.

    A “List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions” on Wikipedia gives us an at-a-glance summary of which nations are most responsible for the problem.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

    As the chief culprits of climate change, the United States and other industrialized nations are in a position to take the lead on this issue. Many initiatives have been floated, (Tokyo Accord, “Cap and Trade,” “Green New Deal”) yet, for all the talk, to date this group has made scant progress in actually reducing carbon emissions. There’s always some excuse, of course, whether it’s a big corporate polluter or the guy on the street. Curbing emissions will hurt our business, whines the auto executive. Taking the bus is a bother! scoffs a disgruntled suburban commuter.

    The latest excuse American are using for doing nothing is the recession, yet it would be particularly tragic if we were to allow this relatively brief crisis to delay us from dealing with the much larger and much more threatening prospect of irreversible climate change. During economic downturns, there are always those who claim that austerity is the solution and who focus on balancing the budget to the exclusion of all else. Indeed, there are certain parts of the federal budget that should be shrunk— the Pentagon’s trillion dollar-a-year budget and multi-billion dollar subsidies to the fossil fuel sector for starters. However, at the same time we’re cutting back in some areas we should be growing in others: like renewable energy, energy conservation, and local sustainable agriculture. We need more jobs in sustainable sectors of the economy like these, and fewer jobs in the unsustainable ones, like auto manufacturing.

    We are finally starting to understand that the solution to the economic crisis and the solution to the climate change crisis are the same. Van Jones helped catalyze that understanding with the publication of his 2008 book The Green Collar Economy: How One Solution Can Fix Our Two Biggest Problems.

    http://www.amazon.com/Green-Collar-Economy-Solution-Problems/dp/0061650757

    Like the other common-sense authors we’ve discussed in these posts, Jones is no radical. He doesn’t advocate outlawing capitalism, for example, or hanging corporate polluters from lamp posts. Instead, he lays out a strategy to create a powerful new political movement that can counter the interests of the “military-petroleum” complex so we can get on with the job of preventing a climate catastrophe.

    The key to understanding Jones’ strategy is to consider the lessons of California’s failed 2006 ballot measure, Proposition 87. Prop 87 proposed that California levy a tax on all oil and gas extracted from the state. (Alaska has already had such a tax in place for years, but instead of being reinvested, the money is distributed as an annual dividend to every state resident.) In the California initiative, the money raised would have funded the development of clean energy. At first the idea polled very well, but the oil and gas companies ran a $100 million campaign against the measure, claiming the entire tax would be passed on to consumers and prices of gasoline would go through the roof. (Thanks for taking no responsibility for fixing the crisis once again, Big Oil!) In any case it was a false argument. The tax on each barrel of oil and gas would have been small, between 1.5% and 6.0%, and wouldn’t have had a drastic impact on retail prices, since retail oil and gas price are actually determined by a combination of several factors. But many voters bought Big Oil’s arguments and the measure went down to defeat.

    Jones argues that the problem lay with Prop 87’s leadership. The proposition’s sponsors emphasized only the environmental benefits of the proposition, not bothering to talk about how little the measure would actually cost a typical family. Perhaps their biggest mistake was their failure to focus on the fact that a clean energy economy in California would provide plenty of good jobs in addition to improving people’s health. To quote Jones: “a clean energy economy is more labor-intensive—meaning it creates more jobs [than a dirty energy economy]. After all, somebody has to install and maintain all those solar panels, build all the wind farms, construct the wave farms, weatherize those millions of homes and office buildings.’ (p. 97).

    Environmentalists tend to be upper-middle class and well-educated people, people who have an aptitude for the arcane science underlying the climate change debate. Though well-meaning, these folks often come across as academic nerds who assume everyone they meet has a BS degree and can appreciate the scientific fine points of the climate debate. What needs to happen, if we’re going to move forward, is that these folks, the Al Gores of the world, need to join forces with the rest of us working stiffs. If the leaders of the Prop 87 campaign had done more to address the concerns of working class and poor Californians, perhaps they would have framed their argument differently and won the election. Without the cross-class unity manifest in the idea of green jobs, Jones thinks we will not be able to win the political power we need to prevent climate chaos. And we believe him on that.

    For the time being, Jones himself is without a job and is probably thinking a lot about the future. Let’s hope he finds another job in the same line of work and continues organizing from outside the White House.

    —John Repp and David Preston
    Members, West Seattle Neighbors for Peace and Justice

    http://www.westseattleneighborsforpeace.org

    (This posting is dedicated to all those enlightened Seattleites who didn’t bother voting for the “Bag Tax” proposition because they were sure it would pass anyway.)

    Posted 3 weeks ago #         
  2. If nothing was wrong with Van Jones and his outlook on the environment, why did he get bounced from his advisory position? The man is extremely motivated and articulate. Why did Axelrod, Jarrett, or Emanuel not keep him in his position?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  3. bluebird
    Member

    This progressive didn't "bother" voting for the bag tax because it was a band-aid on the Titanic. Ill conceived. The antagonistic tone of this post is off putting. How do you expect to promote peace when you criticize everyone from christians to enlightened Seattleites?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  4. JoB
    Member

    HMCRich..

    a better question might be why he was attacked so vigorously to begin with? Why isn't big business behind green technology? There is money to be made there.

    What could possibly be so threatening about thinking globally and buying locally?

    When you examine those questions you find this isn't just about the big energy companies... this movement also impacts mega farms and mega retailers and...

    Tarring the messenger doesn't change the validity of his argument.

    Bluebird...

    It's all well and good to call the bag tax a bandaid on the titanic while the island of plastic in the pacific grows at an astronomical rate.

    The measure did increase awareness and prompt some to move towards carrying their own bags.. clerks no longer give me the long suffering look when i pull mine out... but that hasn't stopped the deluge of plastic blowing in the wind nor will it remove the extra cost to our recyling centers from plastic bags that aren't bundled.

    The same people who didn't vote for the bag "tax" will be howling at the increase in their garbage bill... one they could have avoided as good progressives by carrying their own bags and approving the "bandaid".

    You have to start somewhere. What is so progressive about shooting down small fixes when larger ones aren't even fielded? Rather than think of it as a bandaid, you might have recognized it as a line in the sand.

    Where are those bag collection barrels and other solutions that were fielded as alternatives?

    Again.. badmouthing the messenger doesn't change the message.

    *****

    We have choices here... we can choose cynicism and anger and pass the problems along until they really are too large to handle or we can choose to engage them ourselves.

    One man or woman or child can make a difference... and if their efforts are combined.. even the smallest acts have power. We have a lot to learn from developing nations when it comes to taking responsibility for finding solutions to our own problems.

    Once again i want to thank David Preston and John Repp for their thoughtful and well reasoned post and plead with them to continue even though these posts don't stir much conversation.

    I can only speak for myself when i say that they create a lot of thought. I still believe that the most powerful act any individual can make is to speak out.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  5. bluebird
    Member

    This post would be appropriate possibly during a back and forth debate, but as an initial instrument to get people involved or to care, the tone of the message is important. It's talking down to people. If I'm turned off, as someone who believes in climate change and is interested in ideas, what do those who who disagree with the premise think? I find no peace in this piece.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  6. JoB
    Member

    again..

    shooting down the messenger won't change the subject.

    i have come to the conclusion that there is no "nice" way to talk about what is going on with our economy or our government or our health care.

    We have become such a news bite nation that any in depth commentary is automatically assumed to be talking down to the recipient and any disagreement with assumptions is assumed to be an insult. Therefore it is impossible for any well developed argument to have the kind of "tone" that that wouldn't turn off reactionary readers.

    At best, our nightly news has committed sins of omission for decades now... at worst we have been lied to regularly. Insults are repeated continually while reasoned arguments are lucky if they get a single ten second sound bite... Sarcasm and cynicism are the new standards for retort.

    This isn't your fault.. those things are beyond the control of any individual...

    but not choosing to rise above the barest minimum standard.. choosing to blame the messenger when you don't appreciate the message... those are reactions that are well within our control.

    The only sentence in the OP's post that could be considered to be lacking in "tone" is the personal aside at the bottom ...

    "(This posting is dedicated to all those enlightened Seattleites who didn’t bother voting for the “Bag Tax” proposition because they were sure it would pass anyway.)".

    if that is enough to get your panties in a bunch and prevent you from carefully considering the post, then you probably shouldn't watch any of Michael Moore's movies or read books like The Green Collar Economy: How One Solution Can Fix Our Two Biggest Problems by Van Jones, because they are definately going to challenge everything you thought you knew.

    This has become a middle school nation where it is more important to be cool and fit in than to strive for academic excellence and challenge the mainstream... Where it is easier to exchange insults than consider the argument..

    this is not a good thing.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  7. bluebird
    Member

    JoB,

    I'm really having difficulty understanding your problem. I'd like the OP to be solution oriented over accusatory, so MORE people listen, not less. Not sure why you choose to label that badmouthing. I'm doing no such thing and I also don't really care for you talking about my panties. Kind of a tacky statement to make because someone is expressing an opinion.

    "right wing noise machine" (polarizing and making this political)

    "Many progressives were shocked that the Obama White House could be so easily intimidated" (Obama is easily intimidated?)

    "Taking the bus is a bother! scoffs a disgruntled suburban commuter." (suburbanites are disgruntled?)

    "It’s a scenario that will exceed the worst nightmares of apocalyptic Christians. Unlike the Christian vision of Hell, however, this is no scare story. It’s real" (christianity story is fake, ours is real)

    "Christians will fry right alongside atheists." (sounds threatening?)

    "The latest excuse American are using for doing nothing is the recession" (what Americans are making excuses)

    "Environmentalists tend to be upper-middle class and well-educated people" (as opposed to us stupid poor people?)

    "This posting is dedicated to all those enlightened Seattleites who didn’t bother voting for the “Bag Tax” proposition"

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  8. JoB
    Member

    bluebird..

    "right wing noise machine" ...

    if you think there is no right wing noise machine... you may as well stop reading here.. because if telling lies and distracting people from the issues for political gain is what you consider normal discourse.. we have little to say to one another.

    "Obama white House .. easily intimidated"

    lets see... they let their special advisor for Green Jobs resign because he was the target of a smear campaign.. they are currently scrambling to get a public option included in health care reform without ever even inviting single payer advocates to the table... after advocating single payer during the election.. those actions alone would seem to indicate that the Obama White House is easily intimidated.. but i suppose it could still be a judgment call. I'm with the OP.

    "disgruntled suburbanite"

    disgruntled is a good adjective for a suburbanite who would dismiss the need for a public transit system because it was too much bother for them...

    "Unlike the Christian vision of Hell, however, this is no scare story. It’s real"

    real.. as in... in our lifetimes.. not in afterlife.

    ""Christians will fry right alongside atheists."

    Christians have no special pigmentation that will keep them from frying if the ozone layer is depleted... if that is threatening, it is equally threatening to atheists

    "The latest excuse American are using for doing nothing is the recession"

    it's seen as too costly to implement a green energy policy right now... although there is plenty of money to wage war and bail out the banking system and ...

    "Environmentalists tend to be upper-middle class and well-educated people"

    sigh.. simple statement of fact.. all you have to do is look at the demographics

    You really read a lot into that language, didn't you? my point stands...

    as for those panties.. you have read far more into a common euphemism than was there. I have no interest in your underwear...

    in fact.. i didn't address that post to you on purpose because i wanted to say what i thought without being accused of insinuating anything personal about you.

    It is a pet peeve of mine that so many people simply react to what they hear on the news.. accepting it at face value...

    I can easily document lies told by the republican noise machine.. all you have to do is go to fact check.. there are some real whoppers...

    but it really does no good to link to any objective source because those who believe those lies also believe that anyone who doesn't believe them is just politically motivated.

    How do you reason with that?

    I don't think liberals should be sugarcoating their words to make them more palatable.. in fact i believe the opposite.

    if you can't read past the phrases cherry picked out of that OP ... if you have to read your own connotation into them so that you can dismiss the argument ... there isn't any language that could acceptably voice those ideas to you...

    if you are inclined to think environmentally.. if you are inclined to believe that green energy is not only good for the environment but good for the economy.. then it won't be difficult to listen to an impassioned plea..

    Getting hung up on what you believe is the rhetoric only ensures that nothing will get done.. regardless of your inclination... and this is too important to put off.. we have been doing that too long.

    It's long past time for some pretty strong talking here... we don't have a lot of time to lose and it's going to take a lot of strong language to break through the barrier of disbelief that exists.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  9. bluebird
    Member

    I believe your comments only contribute to the hostile environment so prevalent right now, and make any kind of progress unattainable. Have you heard of the backfire effect? The more you try convince someone how wrong they are, the stronger they believe the misinformation.

    "In a paper approaching publication, Nyhan, a PhD student at Duke University, and Reifler, at Georgia State University, suggest that Republicans might be especially prone to the backfire effect because conservatives may have more rigid views than liberals: Upon hearing a refutation, conservatives might "argue back" against the refutation in their minds, thereby strengthening their belief in the misinformation. Nyhan and Reifler did not see the same "backfire effect" when liberals were given misinformation and a refutation about the Bush administration's stance on stem cell research."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/14/AR2008091402375_pf.html

    I stand by the premise that working with others, accomplishes far more than telling people how wrong they are.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  10. JoB
    Member

    bluebird..

    working with others is a great premise...

    but if you can't even name a problem, you can't fix it.

    if you can't tell people what they don't want to hear without being considered hostile... it's pretty difficult to make any progress.

    Nyhan and Reifler's research only confirms what i already said.. that it really doesn't do any good to link to objective data when you are dealing with people who believe the lies... they aren't going to believe you anyway.

    You can't work with people who are not willing to work with you... so it really doesn't matter much how you phrase the issues... you are going to be perceived as hostile for bringing them up at all.

    I for one am more than tired of trying to find a way to phrase issues so that conservatives or reactionaries or gullible people can listen.. it's a never ending minefield that just distracts from the realities...

    I really find it difficult to understand how a group that talks so much about personal responsibility takes so little for their own thought process.

    i have decided to start with the premise that we are all grown-ups here, have at least a passing command of the english language and are capable of separating out passion and facts in any argument.

    Considering some of the posts, that may be a stretch... but I am tired of speaking to other posters as though they were sensitive uneducated children whose feelings have to be considered when speaking.

    I believe stongly that limiting vocabulary and passion in our discourse is contributing to the dumbing down of America. Speaking to the lowest common denominator drastically limits the scope of the discussion...

    Pandering to those who are personally insulted by language or logic they don't understand or disagree with has brought us to the brink of personal and moral bankruptcy and has produced an increasing large segment of the population who are semi-literate and can't dissect a basic argument or distinguish between fact and hyperbole.

    I vote for more impassioned people on both sides who are willing to take the time to reason out an argument and present it... whether i agree with them or not.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  11. KBear
    Member

    Too...many...words... Brain...hurts...

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  12. http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/main.html

    May need to be preceded by remedial reading course work.

    Current versions are here if you really want to take the course.

    http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/index.html

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  13. JoB
    Member

    kbear..

    exercise.. brain... expand... capacity... ;->

    ken...

    Lol.. thanks for providing a helpful workshop...
    now if only i could get my brain to cooperate ;->
    wouldn't that be something:)

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  14. Bluebird and I do not agree on many things but I agree with the posts on this thread.

    People of all political and socio-economic classes can and should promote their ideology but to do it in a negative tone turns people off. Back up arguments with sound science and facts and I will believe them or consider their point of view.

    JoB, do you ever speak of the left wing noise machine? Is there only a right wing noise machine? Does the left wing noise machine run on green energy and the right wing one run on fossil fuels?

    JoB, you do understand that GE is totally behind green energy. They are in lock step with the administration. They are in line to get some very large contracts. They are also in big trouble with SEC. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32286882/ to the tune of $50 Million.
    Their CEO (Immelt) is on one of the advisory boards to the president. I wonder if they are going to limit his salary? Not a small company. Not a "CLEAN GREEN" company either apparently. Newscorp also has an aggressive green initiative. What is your thought on the two businesses?

    As far as Van Jones goes, all the "Right Wing Smear Machine" did was play his sound bites and then comment. They used his own words, his resume, and the words of the administration's representatives like Valerie Jarrett. What is the problem. Were they wrong?

    The administration threw him under the bus.

    The press's job is to question the government. The messenger was not portrayed properly by the administration. The press did what they are tasked to do by the Bill of Rights.

    Try to understand. I may not support Van Jones views but he had every right to say them. The administration is at fault here for not being completely honest and telling us of their proposed agenda. Transparency should be mandatory for every administration.

    I am just asking this administration to do what you asked of the previous one to do. Just be honest. Even the main stream media is starting to question this administration about certain items. . . like the jobs the stimulus package created. They lied on those figures too.

    Our elected officials need to be questioned. They should be accountable to us. Our press has a mandate to do so. Our liberty depends on it.

    Did you also read in the paper that your two dog's carbon footprint was as much as two SUV's? When will your dogs be eligible for cap and trade? Ready to pay more for them because they have bodily functions and they are omnivores and eat meat and veggies? When will it end? Maybe that pet tax write off that was made fun of might be needed!

    We don't need to agree but lets hold these officials accountable.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  15. JoB
    Member

    HMCRich..

    my patience is limited this morning...

    "I am just asking this administration to do what you asked of the previous one to do. Just be honest"

    I am not going to go into the many ways this statement throws a red flag on the bull meter...

    but simply ask when you are going to hold the current republican leadership accountable for anything resembling truth?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  16. JoB
    Member

    HMCRiich...

    BTW.. just for giggles..

    what do you think the nefarious agenda is in green technology?

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         
  17. Right wing noise machine...at the Michelle Bachmann rally yesterday, veiled as a "press conference"... John Boehner holding his prop copy of the constitution, quoting form the "preamble to the constitution" according to him...there is no preamble to the constitution..that's the Declaration of Independence. Michelle Bachmann calling for "revolution". the guy leading the crowd on the Pledge of Allegiance getting the words wrong..give me a break. I'm ashamed of all of this on both sides And yo0u should be, too, HMC Rich. We deserve to educate ourselves, to call bullshit on the people who need to be called bullshit on. How can we in all honestly believe a da*ned thing that comes out of these people mouths? How can you? Let's all please, please, please educate ourselves better on these things that are important to our world. I don't care if you're right or left...call out the buffoons that lead us.

    I realize that this really has nothing to do with the "green machine"...but...second thought...maybe it does. We have to decide who we believe, and it's certainly not a whole lot of our leaders. They know nothing...we need to find out for ourselves what we need to do to save this world from going down the tubes and start fixing it ourselves.

    Yeah...I'm a little short with a whole lot of people this morning. Tired of the left wing, right wing thing. We're all in this together.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #         

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