Pothole problems: Faulty fixes?

We’ve talked here before about pothole problems and rutted roads around West Seattle. This week, we heard from a High Point resident named Casey Crowell who has an unusual take on it: He is concerned about the same potholes being fixed over and over, making things worse, rather than getting a longer-lasting fix in the first place. Here’s the letter he just wrote to the mayor about it, with specifics all the way down to the pothole Casey has nicknamed “Bruno”:

Dear Mr. Mayor; one of your campaign promises was to fix PH in Seattle in a timely matter. This letter is in regards to pot holes (PH) repairs in Seattle, specifically West Seattle, or maybe I should say the “attempts” to repair PH in Seattle. I drive a specialty car that cost a fair chunk of change and unlike many; I care what my car looks like. Because of this I watch the roads very closely to avoid PH and other obstacles. I have lived in West Seattle for about eight years (just moved into High Point) and commute daily north on 35th to 1st ave. s. where I work at the Starbucks corporate office.

Mr. Mayor, are you aware that your crews are fixing the same PH three and four times a year, year after year?

I am seeing the same PH repaired 3-4 times (mainly winter months) in a year only to make road conditions worse. Here is an example; there is a very large pot hole on 35th/Alaska ( I named it Bruno as it’s so big) and I have seen Bruno repaired and fall apart at least 4 times since this time last year. The pot hole needs fixing, the city comes out and fixes, within 2, 3, weeks the repair material is all over the street and the pot hole is back. So now you have a pot hole and a bunch of gravel all over the road causing a road hazard. Who is accountable for this, I think that is you. I would have been fired long ago if I performed my job as poorly as your pot hole repair team.

I am giving you the benefit of doubt as I can not imagine you know this is occurring and would not put a stop to this. I am now taking pictures and dating them to post on a Blog to prove my point.

I constantly hear that our taxes must be raised to pay for road and transportation repairs and projects. Well damn it we would not need to raise taxes if our money was spent wisely. I absolutely will not support another tax hike until I see things like this being looked at and I belive a lot of other people will feel the same way once I have produced the evidence I am collecting.

The money spent on PH could be better spent on artwork that no one will see it (ha, ha).

I will not let this issue go until I get some kind of resolution. There is absolutely no excuse for this and if you will not resolve it I will do everything in my power to make that known. But as I said I can only assume you do not know about this or you would have put a stop to it. So, if you are not aware of this you are now and I would appreciate some kind of action. Hire me, I guarantee it would be resolved quickly.

I am getting together with a Blog to start posting pictures for proof and to initiate discussion about this blatant waste of taxpayer’s money. I will send you a link once it is up. I also plan to request work orders or at least get some accounting of the numerous unsuccessful repairs from the city. Can you help with this? Can you tell me how many repairs were done last year and what was the cost over the year, in other words what did you spend on pot hole repairs in 07?

One of your campaign promises was to fix PH in a timely matter, your promise now needs to be to fix the problem with fixing PH 3 and 4 times a year, year after year. What is the cost over a year to fix the same PH over and over? There are typically at least 2-3 workers, a flagger, a couple vehicles, assorted equipment, and repair materials at each repair. Add that up city wide over the years and it must be millions.

A more cynical person would say this is just a city works program, it reduces unemployment. I choose to belive that is not the case and you Mr. Mayor can help me resolve this waste issue.

Thank you for listening Mr. Mayor

Respectfully, Casey Crowell

43 Replies to "Pothole problems: Faulty fixes?"

  • Rockyraccoon January 17, 2008 (12:14 pm)

    I could not agree more. I commute up 1st Ave South from Spokand Street. The roadway is almost impassable in spots. I also drive for Metro. I’m surprised the buses have not rattled themselves into dust from the beating they take from all the huge potholes downtown, on Rainier Avenue, just about everywhere. Not on the Eastside, however. Hmmmmm.

  • CMP January 17, 2008 (12:35 pm)

    Casey, you can start documenting the pothole right outside the SSC on 1st Avenue, southbound lanes by the bus stop. I reported the multiple potholes by email to the city and as promised, they were fixed within 24 hours. However, I don’t think the gravel had time to settle and the heavy bus traffic quickly negated my efforts at repair within two days.

    It’s a bandaid by the city, when surgery is needed. Check out their road paving schedule sometime and you’ll cringe. However, 1st Avenue is scheduled to be repaved this year and next, so we’ll see if that happens. The area that needs it the most (Spokane St by Harbor Island) won’t be repaved until 2013. I don’t how the mayor gets around town b/c if he walked, rode a bike or drove, he might actually try to do something to help out. And he’s definitely NOT riding Metro or WS might have more frequent service!

  • Digg January 17, 2008 (12:40 pm)

    Well said. I believe Fauntelroy by the playfield towards thriftway is a mess!

    Thank you Casey!

  • old timer January 17, 2008 (12:49 pm)

    Interesting that his commute is on the route of Metro #21.
    35th sw to Starbucks (Lander).
    Couldn’t be more direct.

    Not to detract from the attentive detail of pothole non-repair,

    just sayin…

  • Erik January 17, 2008 (1:01 pm)

    OT –
    He drives a nice (special) car so he probably wouldn’t be caught hanging out with us normal folks on the bus.

  • Michael January 17, 2008 (1:07 pm)

    “I’m warning you, I’ll get together with a Blog and you’ll be sorry!” No offense, WSB, but that was amusing.
    .
    w/r/t potholes, the only long-term fix is to rip up a portion of the street and re-pave. And you might want to investigate how much money is available for paving random roads (i.e., little to none). And it’s a LOT more expensive than refilling the potholes every year.

  • Johnny Davies January 17, 2008 (1:30 pm)

    Driving around Seattle is like driving in a third world country. Our city Father is pressing for DENSITY yet I can’t think of one infrastructure change that has come on line that has helped move these people around more smoothly. The city should consider leveraging the MEGA developers to pay for the road improvements – since they’ll pack people in and profit, why not? I hope when other dignitaries visit our city, Seattle hosts choose their road routes carefully – otherwise the secret will be out – streets are better in Mexico than in Seattle, WA USA. And what a shame!

  • Spana January 17, 2008 (1:35 pm)

    ugh, potholes. There is about 3 or 4 yards of road on 16th just north of South Seattle Comm College that couldn’t be called drive-able. It isn’t one pothole, it’s like they mated like gremlins. And you can see from the appearance that pieces of it have been “fixed” more than a few times. The scariest part is that the southbound lane has the worst of it and I often see people veering into the northbound lane when driving south, and it’s just begging for an accident.

  • yo January 17, 2008 (1:39 pm)

    I think Pothole fixes only need a work crew to come out and patch.

    Ripping up pavement and relaying it down (even if small) takes engineering planning, in addition to the work to be done. That stuff is expensive.

    Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

  • JohnR January 17, 2008 (1:43 pm)

    I wonder how they are patching these holes. Is the City using the latest and greatest materials? It doesn’t sound like it. A quick web search turned up some products that sound great. Does anyone know about this stuff?
    http://www.ezstreetasphalt.com/products.html
    or
    http://rebar.ecn.purdue.edu/ECT/Civil/potholepatch.aspx
    or
    This report:
    “The study found that the real key is the quality of the patching material,” said Bill Bellinger, P.E., senior engineer within the FHWA for LTPP. “If you use a poor quality mix, it doesn’t matter how you apply it. You have to use a high-quality patching material, and some of the best-performing mixes were the proprietary mixes. They performed very well.”
    http://obr.gcnpublishing.com/articles/feb04e.htm

    We are wasting time and money and exposing the public to risk by using inferior methods and/or materials to repair potholes. We should do better.

  • m January 17, 2008 (1:53 pm)

    I scratch my head every time I drive down 35th, Fauntleroy and California south of the Junction and wonder why the northern section of California was repaved when these other stretches of road clearly need some help. And eastbound Spokane Street before the 99 on ramp leaves me speechless- that rut is so wide and long that it would swallow half of my car if I accidentally drove into it. The Port of Seattle should get the bill for that repair because the trucks are causing the problem down there. The port could do something useful with their tax revenue then.

    On another note, Bruno had an extensive repair about a year ago and seemed like it was more than the usual one hour cover-up job. The DOT seemed to notice that section of road is more like a sinkhole as it affects the whole width of the right lane and gave it more attention than normal. Now it’s back to normal though. I always try to drive in the left lane and cut over to the right after I pass it, much to the annoyance of everyone behind me.

  • Mani January 17, 2008 (1:57 pm)

    I unwittingly drove over (or shall I say into) one on Fauntleroy a few weeks ago and blew my tire. I’ve never seen the streets around Seattle so bad.
    I know that regulating clubs and photo ops are a priority, but I wish the city would please fix these things.

  • Chris Hanley January 17, 2008 (2:09 pm)

    I agree with all the complaints about the potholes, but am wondering why the companies responsible for the construction projects that often create these holes aren’t required to repair them properly. I’m specifically referring to the one on 44th SW between Edmunds and Alaska. It came about when the commercial/condo building on the west side of 44th was being constructed. The concrete street was dug up and only ever patched with blacktop. It has collapsed at least twice, and I really have no idea who is fixing it but clearly blacktop isn’t going to cut it. It seems to me whoever had the building built should be required to leave the street the way it was prior to construction. And this is only one example of this. Why are the city, county, or we as taxpayers, responsible for damage done by some entity that is making a whole lot of money on the finished product that was the cause of the need for repair? I’m baffled.

  • Joleen January 17, 2008 (2:21 pm)

    Delridge is awful as well. Every time it rains hard, all the potholes come back again.

  • WSG January 17, 2008 (2:22 pm)

    there’s always the same pothole on 106th SW that re-opens. one night it gave some women with kids a flat tire! I know because she came to our house to call for help. It’s probably a foot deep by a tire size wide/length. any of you know of this one? maybe we should start a group, PHA (pot holes annoy.)

  • Eddie January 17, 2008 (2:23 pm)

    Mani – send the repair bill for your blown tire to the city – you just might get reimbursed (or is it reimburst?) for your expense.

    The state (or possibly a contractor that left a hole or did a bad repair) paid me for a blow tire and broken wheel a number of years ago.

    Why can’t BNSF and the city do anything about the rail crossing at Spokane street? That seems almost criminal it’s so bad.

  • Ken January 17, 2008 (2:23 pm)

    There is only one long term fix for potholes in Seattle.

    Cancel the rainy season.

    While we know that is not a gonna happen unless global climate change makes the region unlivable of Mt Rainer donates some paving material suddenly and at great velocity and high temperature.

    If we were to triage streets that need repair, everyone would have one they drive or ride often at the top of the list.

    I have my own list.

    Holding Mayor Greg to his promise is a lofty goal especially here since his “friends” on the city council are ever vigilant for signs of favoritism to his home neighborhood.

    The problem is city wide but some of the hot spots need to be looked at by actual engineers rather than underpaid city repair crews.

    Nearly every bus stop in the city has a breaking bulge right by the sign. I remember years ago the one on the downhill side of Madison crept up to cover the curb, broke off and quickly undermined nearly half a block of pavement. The fix for that is to dig up and reinforce the roadbed and pave it with a concrete pad. Not cheap and probably no way to bill metro for it either.

    The truck route between the sea terminals and the rail terminals. Does anyone really need a description of what grossly overweight trucks do to asphalt? A surcharge based on billed weight needs to be assessed on port traffic and just pave the damn thing in 8 in concrete.

    Which body do you think is pushing the soft solution, city engineers or politicians in both the city and the port of Seattle.

    And the “money saving” scrape, grind and replace method used to do quick fix “repairs” can be seen moving only slightly slower than a glacier down many hills here on the west side. Example is the street of many names (Morgan, Sylvan way, SW Orchard) which is already breaking up again and heading downhill despite being closed for the entire summer for paving work since the city only paved the sections in front of the highpoint project and the luxury apartments below the cemetery. This section of street is a major arterial and yet it is treated like a Chicago patronage paving scam.

    But lets remember how each of us voted on the last comprehensive bond issue that supplied money for road repair… I suspect most of us in West Seattle can throw stones with a clear conscience.

  • John M January 17, 2008 (2:27 pm)

    People, we have the to get the sharrow lines painted first (Don’t you understand priorities?). If you notice, the new lines go right through the potholes. And, anything south and east of the junction does not qualify for city attention.

  • sm January 17, 2008 (2:56 pm)

    Yes! I lost a fairly new tire to Fauntleroy a couple weeks ago too! I called the “pothole hotline” and they did actually come out and patch the stretch that I requested.

  • Trace January 17, 2008 (3:05 pm)

    Hear Hear! I hit “Bruno” last week and blew out my tire. It seems like that pothole is “fixed” every few months only to come back bigger than ever before. It drives me crazy. It’s especially loathsome since you can’t see it before it’s too late to avoid it. And pity on any cyclists who meet Bruno! All the sharrows in the city won’t be of much help then….

    I emailed the city about how to request reimbursement for the cost of replacing my tires. I did hear back quickly with the number for the claims office (206-684-8213) and they also stated they had placed the fix order and the pothole would be fixed within 48 hours. (That call was over a week ago for those of you keeping track at home! Is it fixed yet? I can no longer fully discern between “fixed” and the usual “teeth-chattering chasm” with that particular spot.)

    Turns out my tire was fixable so I was only out time away from work, not actual cash, so I didn’t file a claim. But I encourage anyone who suffers damage there to do so. Maybe if there’s enough of that activity it will provide incentive for the city to fix this problem more permanently!

    (and good point, Chris, about who actually pays for all this and the strangely blind eye the city seems to turn to developers and construction crews damaging public rights of way and then ..walking away…although I don’t think the origins of this particular pothole can be traced to that.)

    FYI–to report potholes online:

    http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/potholereport.htm

  • marty January 17, 2008 (4:39 pm)

    Try the approach to the lower Spokane st bridge. No longer potholes, they have progressed (?) to the point of being ditches!!! It sucks to pay high taxes for lousy streets!

  • Jen V. January 17, 2008 (5:07 pm)

    I remember when Hizzoner was elected and he promised a “pothole hotline” (say THAT 3x fast!) that you could call and the crews would be out the next day to repair….wonder what ever happened to that?

  • TammiWS January 17, 2008 (6:04 pm)

    Could not agree more! I wrote the city months ago about the terrible potholes along 1st avenue (I ride the bus) and was told next year 1st ave would be addressed. I find it interesting that Calif. from Admiral to the Junction is smooth as silk yet those of us S. of the Junction have a road that continues to have potholes and ruts. No answer on fixing that.

  • Todd in westwood January 17, 2008 (6:04 pm)

    Good thing the city just spent 56 million on that S.L.U.T.
    One of the main ways out of West Seattle is Roxbury.
    We live just off Roxbury and the potholes, and uneven pavement combined with speeding 18 wheelers going to and fro Westwood and Safeway are shaking our poor little house to bits.
    We have had some luck with the city, but we have tried to speak with them about repaving Roxbury with asphalt instead of just fixing sections of the concrete, they basicly said ” Roxbury is the border between Seattle and unincorperated King Co., so we dont want to spend money there”
    So they give half of South Lake Union to one of the richest men in the world and buid him a trolly. Bravo! clap, clap, clap, clap, clap.

  • Bob Loblaw January 17, 2008 (7:52 pm)

    I noticed today that others have taken up my habit of driving halfway in the center divider on California south of the 7-Eleven. Creating my own version of the road helps avoid the potholes. Maybe we should just re-stripe the roads to use the better parts. Jeebus, I actually think I’m half serious about this …

  • Sage K January 17, 2008 (9:04 pm)

    Delridge is pretty bad as well especially the the curve after SW Oregon. Luckily most of the road is wide enough to avoid them. But they are more like the ruts on a dirt road then potholes. They are huge. Not to mention the ones that look like somebody just riped a random chuck out of the concrete, I’m always afraid I’m not going to see one and blow a tire.

    And don’t even get me started on the mess that is 1st, 2nd and so on down past the stadium. Those railroad crossing should be criminal. What happens when someone blows a tire in the middle of one of those? And if you’ve ever had to take the low bridges along Spokane to WS your just screwed, there are potholes and sinkholes and it would be better as a gravel road that could be re-graded then what is down there right now. Seems like there are potholes big enough to swallow my car down there.

    I’d much rather funnel the PH money into repaving for a more long-term fix or at least use quality materials to patch the roads.

  • lina January 17, 2008 (9:52 pm)

    i dont think anyone has mentioned that potholes also suck for bikers. and are dangerous to boot as bike tired are far more vulnerable than car tires.

  • Bob Loblaw January 17, 2008 (10:45 pm)

    It’s pretty darn refreshing, actually, to hear how many of us all have the same thoughts re: potholes. Lots of times we all just shrug them off as a part of life in a city. But I wonder if it’s not actually a large issue that warrants scrutiny. Granted, this is not global warming, world peace, etc. But I can say, from my own personal perspective as a Seattle resident for a few decades, I have never experienced roads worse than they are right now. Given Mayor Nickel and Dime’s big promise, perhaps Tracy and Co. should bubble this up to the larger media (?), or we the citizens should consider this a cause. Sign me up for any activism that can be launched. I’m as tired of getting my brain jiggled as anybody.

  • Ken S. January 17, 2008 (11:16 pm)

    I’m with Eddie – BNSF &/or City of Seattle really need to fix the Spokane St. rail road crossings.

    The more one travels, the more one realizes how bad Seattle’s roads are. I’ve seen better & longer-lasting road patches performed in China by three guys with no shirts, and a wheelbarrow full of god-knows-what. Oh yeah – maybe whatever it is they’re using is proprietary….

  • Todd in westwood January 17, 2008 (11:18 pm)

    Someone should pass this thread along to the city or the mayor directly.

  • WSB January 18, 2008 (12:31 am)

    We get a lot of pageviews from the city. Hard to say of course whether the city IP means it’s Hizzoner himself, the folks at the Southwest Precinct, some known city employees among the regular readership, etc. WSB is linked from the SDOT “local media” page, even. And the “larger media” all come by here most days too. Might be kind of fun, though, to indeed actually send this to the mayor’s office and request a response, or at least invite him to drop in on the thread. We’ve had other politicians join in the comments before! But I’d be most interested in what kind of response Casey gets to the letter that sparked this whole discussion. Can’t wait to see the promised/threatened photo of “Bruno”!

  • Eddie January 18, 2008 (6:46 am)

    Don’t bother inviting the mayor into this thread – nice written words aren’t going to fix 50 years of decaying infrastructure.

    Invite the mayor to come on a couple of ridealongs, in real people’s cars, and get some of his fillings rattled out of his head.

    Or better yet, maybe I should invite him to come along for a ride on the back of my tandem bike (If I could grunt all that political “capital” around….). That might be an eye opener for him!

  • TammiWS January 18, 2008 (7:33 am)

    This thread should be sent to the Mayor’s office. We all pay taxes, all are members of this community and this should be addressed – whether the City fixes it or the developers who also tear up the road are on the hook for it….. I’ll sign up for activism related stuff as well. I’ve lived in W Seattle for 20+ years – Not much bothers me but having a road to drive on without it beating your car up isnt too much to ask! My family who live on the Eastside (and have perfect roads, of course) cant believe how beat up it is over here – makes me feel like I live in a dumpy area of the City with such crappy roads. It’s actually kind of embarrasing!?

  • TammiWS January 18, 2008 (7:38 am)

    This should be sent to the Mayor’s office. We all pay taxes and are citizens of this community so it needs to be addressed. I’ve lived here for more than 20 years and it’s unbelieveable how bad it’s gotten. Whether the city fixes it or the developers tearing up the roads fix it – it needs to be addressed. It’s embarrasing when people who live in areas with NICE roads (my family who live on the Eastside) come over and drive these roads – it’s like we live in dumpy part of the city! I’ll participate in any activism related activities as well.

  • m January 18, 2008 (8:41 am)

    I think this string should be sent to whoever heads up SDOT. That original letter that started this whole thing was long-winded and poorly written. I wanted to stop reading it after two paragraphs. Keep it short and sweet or else it will probably get tossed in the trash.

    There is a pothole hotline too; my sister has called it at least three times and the city has come out within 24 hours to fix the potholes she alerted them to. So it works, you just need to use it. Whatever they do to fix them doesn’t last long, but they are being prompt about getting out there for a ‘repair’.

  • Jerry January 18, 2008 (8:51 am)

    I have three (3) spots that match exactly what Mr. Crowell stated. 1st – W. Marginal Way S. , just North of S. Holden street and not quite as far as the underpass under the 1st Ave bridge. continue on W. Marginal Way S. to West Seattle and you’ll see another around S.W. Dakota street, before you go about half way between Highland Park Way and the Spokane Street under pass, and the 3rd as you are still going into West Seattle is on Alaska Street approx. at 41st S.W.

    All three (3) of these are “repaired” about 3 or 4 times a year as well.

    I agree with Mr. Crowell, we need to get these done correctly and stop throwing $$$ after $$$ on these.

    thank you for your time and trouble.

  • Allie January 18, 2008 (9:03 am)

    There is a pothole hotline: 684-ROAD (7623)

    Just call in with the location (as specific as possible) and if it is a pothole, the crews should be there within 48 hours (two business days) to fix it. However, some things that look like potholes aren’t and they can’t be effectively fixed with patching. Doesn’t mean you should report them or that nothing will be done – just that it can’t be dealt with immediately by the pothole rangers.

    You can also fill out a form online at: http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/potholereport.htm

    It’s no doubt that this is a bad time for potholes, but a lot of them can and will be fixed if they get reported.

    As for potholes that are repeated fixed and re-open, I can’t speak to that – on the one hand – some sort of fix is better than nothing, but on the other hand you clearly can’t fix a gaping chest wound with a band-aid.

  • Casey Letter writer January 18, 2008 (10:06 am)

    m, based on your comment you obviously did not read my poorly written letter, you said; “So it works, you just need to use it.” My point is not that they do not fix the potholes it’s that they do not fix them right the first time or the second time, etc., etc.

    What a ridiculous comment m, you said “Whatever they do to fix them doesn’t last long, but they are being prompt about getting out there for a ‘repair’.” You are OK with that? If so and you need repairs to your house or car let me know, job security…

    I would rather live with the potholes then have my tax dollars spent to fix them over and over just to have them fall apart creating a road hazard.

    Yes they are being prompt and so were the trains in Nazi Germany. Casey

  • dksmith January 18, 2008 (11:13 am)

    Contact the mayor like I just did:

    http://www.seattle.gov/customerservice/contact.htm

    Probably won’t help, but I do feel a little better …

  • m January 18, 2008 (12:07 pm)

    Casey, I was responding to Jen V.’s comment about “I remember when Hizzoner was elected and he promised a “pothole hotline” (say THAT 3x fast!) that you could call and the crews would be out the next day to repair….wonder what ever happened to that?” So there is a pothole hotline and people should call it. Your letter was long-winded though. I couldn’t even finish reading it and that’s a shame because you have some valid points. Knowing this city, I’m sure they studied this already and found it is cheaper to employ a small crew to fix potholes every day than to repave every road in this city that needs fixing.

  • CMP January 18, 2008 (3:10 pm)

    I find it amusing that Casey thinks that many people don’t care what their car looks like. My lovely Civic is 11 years old and I still get pissed any time I see a new scratch on it or dent in the bumper that was not put there by me. Yes, potholes are annoying road hazards, but if you keep a safe distance and actually look more than 10 yards in front of you while driving, they’re somewhat easy to avoid. And call the hotline or send an email. It’s the one thing the SDOT will actually respond to immediately so that alone gives me great satisfaction.
    Also, the bulk of taxes delegated towards transportation projects is for MAJOR repairs, like widening a highway or repairing the viaduct, not road repairs. The repaving schedule seems illogically organized in terms of priority, but would you expect anything less from Seattle?

  • Sage K January 19, 2008 (1:18 pm)

    You can tell the locals. They’re the ones that automatically swerve around the potholes instead of running right over them.

    It sounds like it would be a good idea to send this thread on to the Mayor’s office or SDOT. At least that might give them something to chew on. Not that I have any hopes for us down here in the Delridge “ghetto” but at least something might be done for those west of 35th. lol

  • JEB February 20, 2008 (1:41 pm)

    Riding down 1st S on the bus makes me seasick.

Sorry, comment time is over.