VIDEO, PHOTOS: Local students join in national walkout

(UPDATED WEDNESDAY NIGHT: 13 schools represented below – Alki ES, Boren STEM K-8, Cascade MS, Chief Sealth IHS, Denny IMS, Evergreen HS, Fairmount Park ES, Gatewood ES, Hope Lutheran, Lafayette ES, Madison MS, Pathfinder K-8, West Seattle HS)

(WSB/WCN photo)

10:03 AM: Students at more than 3,000 schools around the country said they would be part of the #NationalStudentWalkout at 10 am local time today – advocating for gun-law reform, exactly one month after the high-school massacre that killed 17 people in Florida. Some of the local schools participating invited us to cover their walkouts. Our first photo above and video below are from Evergreen High School and Cascade Middle School in White Center. More to come.

(WSB/WCN video)
ADDED 10:26 AM: The Evergreen and Cascade students headed back to class a few minutes ago. Over the next hour-plus, we’ll be adding photos and video, from there and elsewhere. Above, their 17 seconds of silence; they also had student speakers. Below, Alice Enevoldsen‘s video from West Seattle High School, as names of victims were read:

More to come from other local schools.

(Reader photo, via text)

ADDED 11 AM: Above, students from Louisa Boren STEM K-8 lined up along Delridge Way outside the school. Below, Chief Sealth International High School and Denny International Middle School students gathered on the Southwest Athletic Complex field across SW Thistle:

(WSB photo)

Many held pieces of paper with photos of those killed in Florida.

(Above and below, WSB photos and video by Patrick Sand at CSIHS/Denny event)

Below, video of student Natalie Sailors speaking as the Sealth/Denny gathering began:

And the closing remarks from student Kameron Port:

He had sent us the Chief Sealth IHS United Cultural Coalition’s invitation to cover the walkout, saying, “We are pushing and advocating for more progressive and responsible firearm legislation in the wake of the recent events of Florida and other national tragedies. … It is important to let the victims of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting know that we are walking out in solidarity, and standing with them in this fight. We will no longer deal with hearing about the change that this generation needs. We are the change! We will not let this happen again! We’re taking matters into our own hands, advocating for stricter gun-control laws and more mental-health resources for treating troubled peers.”

Elsewhere in West Seattle – also participating: Pathfinder K-8 on Pigeon Point:

(Reader photo, via text)

Hope Lutheran School in The Junction:

(Reader photo, via text)

At Madison Middle School:

(WSB photos by Christopher Boffoli at Madison event)

After a moment of silence outside the school, the Madison students formed a line and walked the sidewalk around the school, down the hill around back, and up to the front again.

ADDED 12:17 PM: While elementary schools weren’t planning full-scale walkouts, some parents had gatherings in solidarity with the walkout. This photo is from Linnea Westerlind, who says about 25 people associated with Gatewood Elementary, including a few students, gathered nearby:

And Erika Stromberg sent this photo of Lafayette Elementary students, parents, and grandparents walking along California SW for 17 minutes at 10 am:

Anyone else? editor@westseattleblog.com – thank you!

ADDED 8:43 PM: Thanks to Melissa Fenno for this photo from the playfield fence outside Fairmount Park Elementary:

In each cup, she says, was a candle – 17, one for each Florida victim.

ADDED 11:55 PM: Add Alki Elementary to the list – thanks for the photo of the march past the playfield:

102 Replies to "VIDEO, PHOTOS: Local students join in national walkout"

  • Sandra March 14, 2018 (10:08 am)

    Great job kids!

  • Gene March 14, 2018 (10:48 am)

    Yes- great job- but please -don’t let this be the end.

    Remember- you are or soon will be old enough to vote & that is power- your generation has the power to make the changes you want to see. Many politicians I fear- think your protests are going to be a one( or maybe a few) & done. Prove them wrong- show them just how much they underestimate you. Keep the activism going- hold your elected officials accountable- seek out politicians who are willing to stand up to lobbyists- if you can’t find one- be one yourselves— register to vote – & VOTE. It’s the system we have in this country- use it – be part of it.

    What has happened since the Florida school shooting-  other than banning bump stocks – only Florida’s Governor has had the courage to enact anything stronger & now the NRA is sueing Florida.

    Here in Washington- a bill that would allow the WSP to destroy confiscated firearms- instead of selling them back to public- didn’t even make it to a vote- I find that so unbelievable- – change has got to start somewhere- even if it starts small.

    So good job students-just  keep it up!

  • CanDo March 14, 2018 (11:23 am)

    Yes, good job!  I stand with you 100%.  Students in American should not have to fear being gunned down in the hallways of our schools.  This is a horror that must stop!  For my part, I will vote responsibly, I will continually contact local/national politicians, I will sign petitions to keep our schools safe and I will also march in the streets when I can.   I applaud your efforts!

  • Rusty March 14, 2018 (11:40 am)

    Strange to me how the protests are all about guns, and not how the Parkland tragedy could have, in fact should have been prevented – by enforcing existing laws. The superintendent was hired from Chicago, where he had instituted the ‘PROMISE’ program that discourages charges against students – to prevent the school-to-prison pipeline. While laudable in intentions, had they actually charged the shooter for his many chargeable crimes (threatening classmates, assaults, etc.) he never would have been able to purchase a gun. Had the Broward County Sheriffs office arrested and charged him on any of their dozens of contacts, he most likely wouldn’t have been able to purchase a gun. Had the FBI not dropped the ball, he most likely would never have been able to purchase a gun. 

    If we hadn’t had major failures by the FBI, Sheriff’s Office, and school district, this tragedy would have been prevented. When the shooting eventually happened, the deputy at the school assigned to protect it hid behind a vehicle and didn’t enter to stop the shooter.

    What we had was a complete failure of the government to protect the students – by enforcing laws already on the books. Then people claim that we need to ‘get rid of guns’ – which is an odd argument to make when we are staring at the complete inability of the government to protect it’s citizens in this instance. I think a better object for protest is the fealty to the ‘PROMISE’ program at the expense of safety – and the failures of law enforcement in this case to do their jobs effectively. THAT would have prevented Parkland.

    • PLS March 14, 2018 (12:18 pm)

      It’s about more than guns, Rusty. It’s about kids’ lives. Their right to be able to learn, free from fear of getting killed in the classroom. Their right to be considered more important than a weapon, than a campaign contribution. It’s about action, about doing away with thoughts and prayers after hundreds of school shootings to actually do something about it. Your points are valid for Parkland in many ways, but what about Columbine, Sandy Hook, Aztec, etc etc etc etc ad infinitum? These kids are fed up with inaction and platitudes and they want to change the direction of our society away from guns, away from the calls to bring MORE guns into schools, theaters, concerts, and malls. They don’t want band-aids anymore, they seek a cure to the disease. 

      Agree that the cracks along with way to Parkland need to be filled no matter what, but more – MUCH MORE – needs be done and these kids are going to do it. 

    • Jim March 14, 2018 (12:21 pm)

      Thank you, Rusty, for offering some perspective beyond the media talking points.

      • Katie March 14, 2018 (2:16 pm)

        They sounded like pretty standard talking points to me, Jim. I hear them every time someone points out the ridiculously obvious issue we have with guns. 

        • Jethro Marx March 14, 2018 (3:33 pm)

          They’re totally standard talking points, on both sides of the varyingly truthful coin that turns out to be American media. I bet breitbart and cnbcsn or whatever are saying similar things, but if that’s our standard, whether we be “liberal” or “conservative,” then we will find ourselves mirroring the media outlets’ ridiculousness. Talk common sense, not bans on this and that widget. You got like five guns per person or some ridiculous number of guns out in the private milieu: what are you going to do about about the fact that people can always, if they really want to, acquire a gun, by hook or by crook?

           Not all problems have a solution; math makes no promises in that regard. Wanting to always have an answer is liable to hinder one’s search.

    • Talking points March 14, 2018 (12:54 pm)

      @Rusty   

      I think a lot of the protests are about guns because these people who go around shooting kids tend to use guns.

    • PLS March 14, 2018 (1:25 pm)

      @Rusty’s opening line of third paragraph reminds me of something . . .. just can’t put my finger on it.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2f-MZ2HRHQ

    • Walk the walk March 14, 2018 (1:32 pm)

      @Rusty

      I think a better object for protest is the fealty to the ‘PROMISE’ program at the expense of safety – and the failures of law enforcement in this case to do their jobs effectively. THAT would have prevented Parkland.”

      So you have found something that is a much better thing to protest.  Just out of curiosity…and you probably know where I’m going with this…but just out of curiosity… have you been protesting this thing?  Because, you know, there are kids in high school, middle school, even elementary school who are out there protesting something that you think is less important. 

      So you kinda gotta answer this one question: have you been out there protesting against the ‘PROMISE’ program that you feel resulted in the Parkland shootings?  Because man, if you haven’t, shame.

      • Rusty March 14, 2018 (2:08 pm)

        I’m not one for protesting. I am for creating dialogue and looking at real issues that can make a difference. What I am trying to point out is that Parkland could and should have been prevented. I’m not interested in adding more laws if the existing ones aren’t even being enforced – what makes you think, when existing laws are ignored/not enforced, that new ones will be the magic elixir that prevents future tragedies?

        • sigh March 14, 2018 (2:35 pm)

          @Rusty

          Of course you’re not one for protesting.  Somehow I knew that.

    • CAM March 14, 2018 (1:36 pm)

      Strange that you bring up the Promise program since the superintendent of the school in Parkland indicated that Cruz was never a part of that program. The news sources linking the shooting to discipline reforms in Florida schools (which were instituted prior to the reforms recommended by Obama) have been rated as false and misleading. 

      He criticized “extremely false and I think disrespectful” media reports about the district’s PROMISE program, which offers opportunities for students to avoid going to jail for non-violent misdemeanors. He said accused gunman Nikolas Cruz, who had reportedly been in fights and brought knives to school, was never part of the program.”

      • Rusty March 14, 2018 (2:04 pm)

        Not that strange, as I wouldn’t take Runcie’s or Sheriff Israel’s word on how they handled the shooter prior to the shooting. For reference, https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/mar/5/nikolas-cruz-avoided-police-scrutiny-help-obama-po/

        Even if it turns out that this particular suspect wasn’t in the PROMISE program, the policies of the district and sheriff’s office were clearly in alignment with it – and that’s more of the issue – how we go about handling these cases. It’s clear that he had brought weapons to school, made threats against other students, and assaulted people. It’s also clear that he was never prosecuted for any of these things. So whether he was specifically in the program at the time or not, his case seems to fit the pattern of how the program operates – otherwise, he would have had a criminal record. That’s really the point.

    • scubafrog March 14, 2018 (2:03 pm)

      Rusty you’re verbatim repeating Trump’s talking points.  Hatred for the FBI, the DOJ, the Govt (America essentially), blaming everyone but the culprit:  Guns.

      When will you republicans stop praising the NRA as if it were a deity?  There are only 5 million members.  8% of the population possesses the majority of the firearms in the US.  The NRA’s power is massively disproportionate to its membership. 

      The sooner you realize that Fox News isn’t even registered as a news station, and has the disclaimer “for entertainment only” in its Terms of Service, the closer you’ll come back to reality, Rusty.  ABC, CNN, ABC, CBS, MSN, MSNBC, are real news.  Fox/breitbart/drudge/newsmax are fake news.   Your fake news is perpetrating gun obsession, gun ownership, gun violence, Rusty.  It’s not too late for you to come into the Light.

      -Frog

      • Rusty March 14, 2018 (2:51 pm)

        I would disagree with you on most sources of news in this country – whether it’s ABC,CNN,MSNBC OR Fox News – I don’t think any of them do a good job in reporting any more. I certainly don’t hate the FBI/DOJ/ or government. If pointing out the failure of multiple agencies that clearly allowed the tragedy in Parkland to take place equates to hating the government for you, then I think that’s an issue for you. How in the world are we supposed to improve future responses if we don’t identify what went wrong in current ones?

        I also haven’t mentioned the NRA at all – and not that it matters, but I’m not a member or supporter. I think that we need to have good background checks for any gun purchase and mandatory training/competency before CCL licenses are given out – not that any of that would have prevented Parkland. I also know that a lot of states don’t even report crimes up to the federal level so that our background checks can be as effective as they should be, and that should change. We banned “assault rifles” under President Clinton for (i think) about 10 years. They studied this extensively, and found that it had little effect. I’m more interested in real solutions that can address the problem – and most of these shooters have mental health issues, as well as many times being involved with law enforcement. Making the argument solely about guns doesn’t address the underlying causes (in my opinion).

    • Dan Greaney March 14, 2018 (3:10 pm)

      @Rusty

      Thank you for voicing your opinion. I appreciate the focus on the people rather than the tool they chose to use to kill others. I know that having an opinion based on thinking, rationale and open discussion is harder than one on emotions, pain and passion, so good job. It’s unfortunate that what we see in schools with bullying and isolating those with different views shows up here on forums too. But you are not alone. Many of us see through the rhetoric and the arguments based on emotion and think thoughtfully on issues such as these. 

      Keep speaking out Rusty!

      • AJP March 14, 2018 (3:41 pm)

        Easy access to efficient killing machines means killing a lot of people in a short amount of time is easy to do. That’s an emotionless fact. 

  • SaraB March 14, 2018 (11:45 am)

    We are proud of all students who protest this messed up situation.  And I’m so ashamed that the burden falls on you rather than our leaders who should be stepping up but are instead selling their integrity and our safety to the NRA.

  • Bonnie March 14, 2018 (12:17 pm)

    So impressed with all these kids!

  • Al March 14, 2018 (12:20 pm)

    Awsome work!

  • MSW March 14, 2018 (12:22 pm)

    So if celebrities, politicians and banks have armed security
    protecting them, why can’t we do the same for our schools. Maybe copy what they
    do in Israel for their schools. It’s been proven to be effective. More so than
    marches and “Gun Free Zones” and blaming the NRA. Real security takes
    effort and funding.

     

    https://sofrep.com/100108/school-security-in-israel/

    • WS Mom March 14, 2018 (12:38 pm)

      Israel also has extensive gun control laws as well as gun safety training due to their military service requirements. Additionally they live in essentially a war zone and their safety measures are largely due to external war time threats.

    • Talking points March 14, 2018 (1:09 pm)

      @MSW

      Well, a couple things. 

      First: you mention armed security in terms of bodyguards (as in the case of celebrities and politicians).  What, do you suppose, is the ratio of bodyguards to celebrities (or politicians)?  Close to one-to-one in many cases, no?  And in some cases even 2 or 3-1.  So for your suggested solution we’d need how many armed security guards?  So, yeah, there’s your answer as to why we can’t do that.  Stumped as to why I need to walk you through that, frankly.

      Second: you want us to copy what they do in Israel.  Did you read the article you linked?  The author of that article explicitly says he advice to NOT DO WHAT THEY DO.  He writes that in “Israel, the mindset is tragically strong due to our never-ending experience with violence and terror. If I were to give advice to school security, I would not tell you to build towers or walls.”

      So aside from your point that some nebulous thing has been “proven to be effective” (What, by the way, has been proven to be effective, and what is the proof?  Always be prepared to back up your claims when called out), your own source is contradicting you.

      ps

      Teacher accidentally fires gun in class, students injured

    • PLS March 14, 2018 (1:19 pm)

      Be more like Israel? No thanks! And I’d love for celebrities, politicians, as well as my family, neighbors, and others to not have to worry about being shot. That is the ideal, not a completely armed society. I am glad our children will aim higher (pun intended) than our generation.

    • Mr E March 14, 2018 (1:29 pm)

      Better yet, let’s fund our public schools so teachers are paid what they’re worth and our children can receive a quality education beyond STEM requirements.

      AND let’s have sensible gun control legislation.

  • scubafrog March 14, 2018 (12:51 pm)

    Good job kids!!  Be the generation that bans guns!! 

    WoooHooooo I’m SO glad to see these kids rise up NATIONWIDE (Blue AND red States!).  The only naysayers are old conservative octogenarians (eg Republican South Carolina Governor McMaster).

    Go Gun Control!!

    • Bradley March 15, 2018 (12:42 am)

      Well, for one, we have two SCOTUS rulings (Heller vs D.C. and MacDonald vs Chicago) that both upheld the right for INDIVIDUAL Americans to own modern firearms for self defense. Your argument that guns need to be banned is just sending millions of Americans to gun stores to purchase more and more firearms.

      • Some confusion March 15, 2018 (7:17 am)

        @Bradley

        You misunderstand–many people are arguing that the laws must change.  Your comment is about the current laws.

        And no, the movement to ban guns is not what’s behind the US having an absurd number of guns.  

  • JoB March 14, 2018 (1:21 pm)

    I am proud of our kids..
    even they know this is about more than kid’s safety and more than guns and more than schools…
    isn’t it time America got it’s priorities straight?

  • Darryll March 14, 2018 (1:31 pm)

    I love to see this movement being led by the young people. They are less laden with excuses for why the right thing is just too hard to do, so speaking truth to power comes naturally.  Please also remeber to write to your elected officials and tell them to do their freakin’ job! Most importantly, vote as soon as you can.   This insanity does not have to be the norm and I feel hopeful that if enough of our young people see it that way, too, then it will change.  Good job, young people!

  • Jennifer March 14, 2018 (1:33 pm)

     I am so proud of all these kids and all the kids across the country who are making their voices heard. They will be voters one day and their parents are voters now!

  • Gene March 14, 2018 (1:54 pm)

    Jim-this is  more than “talking points” & more than media talking—kids are being killed- not with words- with guns. Agree with Rusty- more could have & should have been done in Parkland- & prioritizing coordination between schools, law enforcement & state agencies need to be addressed- right along with – better background checks & if not banning  these automatic weapons –  at the very least raising the age to 21 to buy one. Let this generation be the ones to promote / implement change.

  • PW March 14, 2018 (2:11 pm)

     I see the pictures.  I see many holding up signs about being safe in school, which can all easily agree on. I see lots of kids with smiles and happiness on their faces, which would seem to indicate many are out there as a social event that is the ‘in thing to do’.   All the same talking points that we hear from the same media and anti gun factions.  Where are the signs that are asking why law enforcement did not stop this when they had the knowledge to do so?  How many of these kids actually know anything at all about guns, other than what the media or their parents, and lets not forget the teachers tell them.   Based upon my kids experience just two years ago, West Seattle High was a very biased place, even intolerant, against this type of thing.   If we were to ask most of these kids what  they actually know about the current gun laws, I would bet they would not have a clue.  So, school system/teachers/parents, before endorsing and encouraging the students to protest something, how about ask them to research and write a report on guns and the current laws.   What laws are now in effect and what do they do?  Are they effective?  Are they not effective?  What is the 2nd Amendment(something in depth, not just right to bear arms)? How will gun laws affect the 2nd?   Teach these future adults to be critical thinkers by understanding all aspects of a viewpoint. From what I saw today, these kids were narrowly led to these positions by their adults of influence.   I am not a gun nut, nor do I own a gun.  But, I am truly worried about the future of our country and it is not because of the pro gun people.

     

    • TEARS AND FEARS March 14, 2018 (2:30 pm)

      @PW

      Where are the signs that are asking why law enforcement did not stop this when they had the knowledge to do so?”

      If you think there should be a sign that says that why on earth don’t you make a sign that says that and go march/protest/speak?  It’s very simple–hell, even a kid can do it!

      ps

      I agree about the happy and smiling faces, for what it’s worth.  If my kid was out there and not crying for the full 17 minutes I would feel like a complete failure as a parent.

      • pw March 14, 2018 (3:22 pm)

        Obviously, you have missed my point.   I would hope, nor want, all to be sobbing for 17 minutes or even one minute.      Tell me, do you think that a majority of these students, some only in elementary school, were not guided on what to protest and not offered a chance to learn about what/why.   Do you really think elementary/jr high students truly understand the depth of this topic.   If not, why are they out there unless prompted to do by another adults views.  Parents have this right, teachers and schools do not.   While this topic is about guns, my comments go to the deeper thought of how the youth of our country are lacking the ability to analyze issues based upon the bigger long term picture.   Far too often basing opinions on Facebook feeds, one sided internet feeds, and proper teaching to think critically that does not simply take into account STEM guidelines or personal teacher bias.

         PS  – Even if your child did cry for those 17 minutes, you would still would not be a failure as a parent.   I have cried for 17 minutes at a lot less.  Good attempt at trying to make me out as a nasty person though.

        • hurting March 14, 2018 (4:42 pm)

          @PW

          Allow me to give you the courtesy of a thorough reply.

          do you think that a majority of these students, some only in elementary school, were not guided on what to protest and not offered a chance to learn about what/why.”

          Guided on what to protest?  I think they are pissed that kids keep getting shot.  Frankly, I think that’s all the guidance they’ve needed.  As for the second part, I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking when you say “ not offered a chance to learn about what/why.”  Are you asking if they understand the Second Amendment?  I would venture yes, they’re probably aware.  Otherwise I’m really not sure what you’re asking–please elaborate.

          Do you really think elementary/jr high students truly understand the depth of this topic.   If not, why are they out there unless prompted to do by another adults views.”

          I do not think anyone truly understands the depth of this topic.  But one does not need to have complete mastery of a topic in order to be prompted to action.  If that is a prerequisite to action then none of us would ever move.  As for the final part–why would they be “out there unless prompted to do  by another adults views”…  I mean, they know that kids are getting shot, and I’d hazard a guess they are against that sort of thing.  Not sure why you think there must be more to it than that.

          “Parents have this right, teachers and schools do not.”

          What right?  I’m confused.

          While this topic is about guns, my comments go to the deeper thought of how the youth of our country are lacking the ability to analyze issues based upon the bigger long term picture.”

          Damn youths.  Why do you think they are lacking the ability to analyze big picture issues?  I simply don’t understand where you got this position and, specifically, why it’s relevant here and now (i.e., how it relates to the protests).

          “Far too often basing opinions on Facebook feeds, one sided internet feeds, and proper teaching to think critically that does not simply take into account STEM guidelines or personal teacher bias.”

          What?  Aside from a general worry about technology I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.  Are you worried teachers are too biased?  In what direction?  Are they all biased in that direction?  What does STEM have to do with this?  I AM SO CONFUSED!


          PS

          My sarcasm was pointed and perhaps too harsh–I don’t think you are a nasty person at all, I just wanted to poke fun at your disapproval of some kids smiling and seeming happy during the protests.  




        • LE March 14, 2018 (5:08 pm)

          Many of my students live in fear of being shot either walking home from school or while they are in school. Isn’t that enough reason for a kid to say “that’s enough?”  I don’t know about you, but when I was in middle school, I wasn’t doing anything nearly as meaningful with my time. And, for your comment about the smiles – these kids were rightly proud that they got to do something about a very difficult situation that affects them directly. I was on the field at SWAC. It was very moving and powerful to hear how quiet hundreds of high schoolers AND middle schoolers were when the speakers were presenting. Please don’t condescend to these young people. They are dealing beautifully with the cards that they have been dealt. 

    • ACG March 14, 2018 (11:01 pm)

      I see a lot of kids in these photos being quite serious- when I look at their facial expressions. For example, the photo of the Hope Lutheran kids really moved me as I saw the looks of sadness and reflection on their faces. 

  • TreeHouse March 14, 2018 (2:17 pm)

    Hopefully this will be the generation that fixes our mess. It’s time to ban military weapons and require training, licensing, and references to purchase guns like most other developed countries. People’s lives should be more important than the ability to purchase these ridiculous weapons of war.

  • Kim March 14, 2018 (2:20 pm)

    My students  (another SPS middle school) were so awesomely respectful.  They left the class quietly, stayed on the field for the 17 minutes, and every child filed back into class on time. They seem to have felt it was their duty to bring change, and I feel honored to be their teacher.

    • pw March 14, 2018 (3:28 pm)

       Kim,  thank you for being a teacher.  It is a difficult job during these times.   Here is the big question though…..they left class quietly, filed back in the room on time, and SEEM to have felt it was their duty to bring change.  Do they understand why and what change they are striving for, and how that affects our society in the future.  Not just the supercharged emotion of the moment that is being pounded into their heads by our nonstop news of modern day? 

      • AJP March 14, 2018 (3:47 pm)

        Children went to school, and they were shot to death. Shot to death at school. They died. When you accuse people of having “supercharged emotions” what would you rather they do? You’re telling children to not be worried about this? Don’t worry guys, don’t be afraid, children are dying and no one’s doing anything to stop it, but don’t get emotional about it. 

      • The kids are alright March 14, 2018 (3:55 pm)

        @PW

        As someone else suggested, why not ask a student or two?  

        As for my guess, which is only as good as yours, I’d say they have a very good grasp on what they want. 

        And you want to know if they have taken into account how what they want might affect our society in the future?  Isn’t that the whole point?  That they are explicitly trying to shape the future of our society?

        As for your comment on “the supercharged emotion of the moment”, what does that even mean?  Some kids in Florida went to school in the morning and some of them were shot and killed.  If that doesn’t warrant a visceral and emotional reaction then something is wrong with you.  

  • LJ March 14, 2018 (2:33 pm)

    Around 97% of all homicides in America are from illegally obtained guns.We need to in force the current gun laws and stop  giving criminals who use a guns  a break on their prison time they earned.

     As a law abiding  American I have the constitutional right to own a gun if I so choose.   

     

     

     

    • But but the constitution March 14, 2018 (2:43 pm)

      @LJ

      Nope, we need to ban guns.

      • T March 14, 2018 (9:28 pm)

        Think about that for a second BBTC. Do you want civilians to not be able to have guns? Only police snd military?

        • but but the constitution March 14, 2018 (10:04 pm)

          @T

          Oh, it’s even worse than you could imagine–I don’t even want everyday cops to have guns.

          And yeah, I’ve thought about it.

          • Concerned March 15, 2018 (6:46 am)

            Well you haven’t thought about it very well

          • but but the constitution March 15, 2018 (9:40 am)

            @Concerned 

            What a silly and pointless comment.  If you having nothing to add to the conversation step aside and let the adults talk.

  • WSparental March 14, 2018 (2:43 pm)

    This is so great. Much respect to these students for taking a stand.

  • T Rex March 14, 2018 (2:51 pm)

     So what would they be protesting if he had built a homemade bomb, which if done correctly could have killed even more children. Mental Health issues will not stop someone from hurting themselves or others if they want to do so. People who do things like this are not rational people.  In their mind where there is a will, there is a way. And violence of any kind is what they will use. 

    Eliminating guns will NOT solve the problem.  I am not a gun nut either (great post PW) but I do own a firearm and I will use it if my life or my partner’s life is threatened in our home.  

     Our mental health education or lack of is a huge problem in the country, someone knew something and no one did anything.  If you are going to teach your kids the way of the world, make sure they get BOTH sides of the story, not just the one you want them to know, it will not do them any good as they step into adulthood.

    I too worry about the younger generation moving forward, a lot of these kids have been coddled, spoiled rotten, never gone without anything and their faces are buried in the make believe world of the internet and social media. Very scary indeed.  

  • wscommuter March 14, 2018 (3:04 pm)

    And let’s speak the key truth here:  reinstate the ban on assault weapons.  There is no reason a sane and rational society allows these to be commonly owned.  You want a bolt action rifle for hunting or protection or sport or just cause you like guns?  Good for you – buy a 100.  Same with handguns and shotguns. 

    But there is no rational reason to allow the general public to possess a weapon explicitly created for a military application, especially against the backdrop of how frequently these weapons end up being used in a crime.  

    • Freedom First March 14, 2018 (6:58 pm)

      The 2nd amendment is not about hunting or personal protection. 

      It is about the defense of freedom from a totalitarian state. 

      • Logic Second March 14, 2018 (7:49 pm)

        Which is why we have the National Guard (the militia that the 2nd amendment is all about).

        And regardless of gun laws or gun bans those dudes still get guns.  

        Therefore you should have no problem or constitutional issue with a gun ban.

        • Freedom First March 15, 2018 (6:45 pm)

          The best thing about the 2nd amendment is that we wont need it until they try to take it away 

          • logic second March 15, 2018 (8:27 pm)

            I find it so funny that people who worship the rules of the land (IT’S IN THE CONSTITUTION, MAN, AMERICA IS ABOUT FREEDOM!  ‘MURICA, ‘MURICA!) happily imagine themselves going to war with that very same country.  And all over something as petty as being able to own a device that shoots bullets.  

            ps

            Oh, and also that phrase is not remotely clever.

    • Howard March 14, 2018 (7:46 pm)

      WSCOMMUTER  – That ban was a hollow bill, during the life of that bill I bought a few “assault weapons”, complete with 30 rd mags, from a licensed dealer, in DT Seattle . If you want common sense legislation I would suggest changing the language and definitions that many choose to use.  If you use the term “assault weapon”, millions of people instantly close their ears to you. 

      Furthermore the kids and their walkout today displayed great courage and leadership.

      • Gawdger March 14, 2018 (11:36 pm)

        You’re right, Howard.  President Clinton was praised for passing a bill that stated an Assault Rifle Ban, but those rifles were not banned under the law.  The bill allowed for “modification” of certain parts (ie. bayonet lug, pistol grip, etc) which allowed the rifle for sale.  Otherwise you were still allowed to own your “pre-ban” rifle.  Those weapons that were modified, still had the same down range capability and were allowed for sale.  Gun Control is the elephant in the room, and rightly so, but to impart change you have to consider the geographic based political map of our country.  Democratic representatives from rural states will have a difficult time keeping their constituents if those representatives support gun control.  It historically cost democratic elections from the smallest district to Al Gore (He lost his own state; IMO to his support of gun control). 

        So please remember when debating that we are not a nation like-minded people, but we are represented by politicians playing a delicate line to maintain their seats, and those representatives play the largest role in law making.  So where do we truly impart gun control measures? Maybe a National vote?  Nope, that wouldn’t bode well at all except to reinforce the fact that more people in this county support weapon ownership than not.  How about federalism, where the states enact their own laws against the will of the Federal Government?  I honestly wouldn’t suggest trying that for obvious reasons.  

        Pro-gun groups are afraid to give an inch because they think the other side will take a mile.  But, that is where this discussion needs to go.  How do we come to an agreement with one side saying, “ban all weapons” and the other saying “not to you rip it out of my cold dead hands”?  I’m only using statements from the far left and right there to make a point.  As a moderate conservative I know a lot of us fall near the middle somewhere, so saying that, I know the NRA would probably rip my membership card from my pocket for saying this…but I’m ready to give an inch or more to create a system of weapon registry (we do it for vehicles, bicycles…hell, even domestic animals), limitations on ownership of weapons based on meeting very enhanced background checks, and much more.  

        I rambled on much more than intended, but I’m proud of the students, and my student who marched today and the parents who take the time to discuss these topics with their children. 

  • Gene March 14, 2018 (3:15 pm)

    Hey- PW why don’t you ask a student or two- if they were “ narrowly led to their positions today by their adults of influence”- you might be surprised. Like many – adults & politicians- I hope you are seriously underestimating this generation & their knowledge & passion & commitment to change. Yes- the breakdown in communication between NOT JUST LE- but all agencies involved in Parkland needs to be addressed- but so does the gun issue. Raise the age to legally buy assault weapons. 

    • pw March 14, 2018 (4:03 pm)

       Gene,  I have. I talked with about 1/2 dozen I know through my own child. In most instances, they believe in what they are doing BECAUSE that is what they think are supposed to go along with.  None of them were able to say WHY they believed it except they need to be safe.    I also commend those that have a passion to follow what they believe in when it is truly a passion.  I do not think I underestimate our youth, I have one of them. Their are exceptions of course to anything in life, but these truly passionate youth are the rare example.   I firmly believe the special interest parties involved here are using our youth as a to spread their positions without regard for teaching all aspects, and that is a shame.  NRA is just as guilty by the way.   I also agree with you,  I see no reason for a child to be able to legally purchase an assault weapon(which when it gets right down to it, aren’t all guns assault weapons? There lies the concern to gun advocates when we see comments that say BAN ALL GUNS, see Scuba above.)  21 years old seems to be a better age to make such decisions.  Although, that should also mean anyone entering our armed forces not be able to handle a gun or go to war until they are 21, so that is an interesting aspect.    Our leaders are letting us down, politicians on many levels, sometimes the parents, and sometimes our school systems.   I hope the future shows me underestimating  today’s youth as well.     

      • All over the place March 14, 2018 (4:21 pm)

        @PW

        None of them were able to say WHY they believed it except they need to be safe.”

        Sounds like a compelling enough reason to me.  But you don’t think so?

        I firmly believe the special interest parties involved here are using our youth as a to spread their positions without regard for teaching all aspects, and that is a shame.”

        That’s a lot to unpack, but I guess I’ll try.  Who are these “special interest parties”?  What are their “special interests”?  Let’s start with that.  Because my guess is that these special interest parties are people who don’t want kids to get shot with guns.  And their consequent special interests are keeping kids from getting shot with guns.

        You also make some downright weird points, though…  “21 years old seems to be a better age to make such decisions.  Although, that should also mean anyone entering our armed forces not be able to handle a gun or go to war until they are 21, so that is an interesting aspect. ”  What?  You realize this is nonsense, right?  I mean, do you also think that since it’s illegal to operate a bazooka the army doesn’t use them?  Since I can’t drive a tank down the street our armed forces can’t use them?  That’s just weird.


  • CanDo March 14, 2018 (4:01 pm)

    Yes, you do have a constitutional right to own a gun… hopefully a black powder gun, which was what the right intended at the time, but the founding fathers didn’t see the vast technical advances weaponry would make when they drafted our Constitution.    But, you absolutely do have the right to own a gun.  Personally though, I don’t think that you should have the right to own an AR-15 or other automatic weapon, which were built only to kill people, not hunt animals or target shoot. That’s way beyond what the founding fathers envisioned.   And.. before you get to purchase any gun, I think you should have to prove to the state that you can be a responsible gun owner;  know how to use that weapon, know how to carry that weapon safely, have no violent or mental background issues and also have the ability store that weapon safely (especially if you have children), before you get to exercise your constitutional right…  Just like getting a driver’s license, motorcycle license, medical/dental license, engineering license, pilot’s license, hell, even a real estate license, hair cutting license or myriad other licenses.  Even the army makes privates LEARN how to use weapons.  Don’t know why people are so opposed to training prior to purchasing guns or why owning an automatic weapon is of such value.    If someone is breaking into your house will you mow them down with an automatic weapon… and destroy your doors, windows, furniture and maybe some of your neighbors in the process?  Sorry, I just don’t get it. 

    • The King March 14, 2018 (5:28 pm)

      If someone is breaking into my house I can always replace a door, I can’t replace my family. LOL nice argument >

    • Freedom First March 14, 2018 (7:00 pm)

      >… hopefully a black powder gun, which was what the right intended at the time, but the founding fathers didn’t see the vast technical advances weaponry would make when they drafted our Constitution. 


      Ironic since you are writing  your screed on the internet rather than with a quill pen or printing press.  Since by your logic free speech only extends to the means available when the constitution was written




      • CMT March 14, 2018 (10:41 pm)

        Calling someone’s post a screed is pretty rude.  I guess a screed is in the eye of the beholder …

  • kim March 14, 2018 (4:15 pm)

    PW: Considering what we all took in from the Parkland shooting, my students know that kids their age were gun downed with an assault rifle in their school. I’m not speaking for them–you can ask them yourself.  However, the drills we’ve been practicing for years have now been embraced as more authentic, more necessary. That I have to spend at least two days of an advisory period explaining where to hid in my room in case of a shooter…well, that pains me greatly.  These kids are really smart, really aware, and really yearning to do something to alleviate the gun violence that they see encroaching on their lives and ours.

  • A-Red March 14, 2018 (4:23 pm)

    Things I’ve read in the comments and my response:

    • The authorities had all the information they needed to prevent the shooting in Lakeland. Lakeland is but one example. The movement for sensible gun laws isn’t about Lakeland specifically.
    • We should increase security. Maybe, but I’ll bet you will be the first person to vote down the tax increase necessary to fund increased security.
    • I have a right to own guns. It’s not an absolute right, if you’ll take the time to read the second amendment, you’ll see terms like “well-regulated.” And most people I know who favor gun legislation agree that you can and should have the right to own guns. This is not about taking away your right. This is about clearing a background check. This is about limiting certain types of weapons that don’t belong in our community. This is about making sure gun owners are responsible for the weapons they choose to possess.
    • Most homicides were committed with a gun that was illegally obtained. Okay, so there’s a couple of sensible gun law that we can agree on: punishment and liability for people caught making illegal sales. Liability for gun owners whose deadly weapons are stolen and used in a crime.
    • People are having an irrational and emotional response to all these shootings, not based on “thinking” and open discussion. I admit it, all of the death gets me emotional, but I sure as hell ain’t being irrational. In fact, I’m having an open discussion here. Those who think gun legislation = a full government repossession of all firearms are wrong. Those who think the second amendment gives them an absolute right to own any time of firearm are wrong. Prove me wrong. I’m open to discuss.
  • Plf March 14, 2018 (4:54 pm)

    Was hope Lutheran the only local faith based school that participated?

    • WSB March 14, 2018 (4:59 pm)

      Only one we heard from. Have not heard from any other schools, faith-based, secular independent, or public, since publishing this, but still open to adding!

  • scubafrog March 14, 2018 (6:24 pm)

    Republicans are oft confused.  One was talking about “Clinton’s assault rifle ban”,  and lied by omission by saying nothing about the GOP/Reagan assault rifle ban (they also whine about the term “assault rifle”, which was coined by Reagan).

    Arming teachers is a non-sequitur, as are armed guards.  Armed guards have been on premises of many mass shootings, and have done nothing.  How many Law Enforcement Officers stood outside the highschool in Florida while kids were being slaughtered?  Re arming teachers, we have teachers gun’s going off in class, armed teachers in Georgia having mental crises and locking themselves in classrooms.

    Retrieval of arms and a gun ban is the only way forward.  Thankfully Trump’s destroying the GOP, hopefully we can make strides to that end (and towards single-payer).

    • Rusty March 14, 2018 (7:23 pm)

      Allow me to correct you, since I believe you referenced my comment. The assault rifle ban happened in 1994 – when Clinton was president. Reagan supported it, but he wasn’t the president. I never mentioned that because it has no relevance. They studied it extensively, and found that it had very little effect, all of which is fact and as I stated.
      Also, I’m an independent – not a huge fan of either party.

      • Logic Second March 14, 2018 (7:54 pm)

        @Rusty

        Reagan, who was then president, signed into law the Firearm Owners Protection Act, which was supported by gun rights advocates. In addition to providing protections for gun owners, the act also banned ownership of any fully automatic rifles that were not already registered on the day the law was signed.”

        Source

        Rusty– You have been wrong on the facts various times in this one forum discussion.  First you were off base about the role of the PROMISE program, and now you were wrong about Reagan and automatic weapons.  Not sure you should be trusted.

        • Rusty March 14, 2018 (9:09 pm)

          Second –

          Again, false. Clinton signed the ‘assault weapon’ ban, which is what I wrote. Machine guns have been illegal since the National Firearms Act of 1934 – which had the exploits of the Dillinger gang as its impetus. You can argue that technically they aren’t ‘banned’, but the onerous regulation of manufacture, sale, and ownership (along with registration) made it in effect illegal without permits and lots of scrutiny.

          Go back and read my comments. I never stated that the shooter was in the promise program – I don’t know if he was or not. The point I was making was that the superintendent had instituted and was a firm believer in the program. So that goes toward why the shooter was never prosecuted, even though the school had been made aware of some of his illegal behavior.

          Feel free to find any actual inconsistency or lie in any of my arguments – or argue the merits instead.

    • Howard March 14, 2018 (8:00 pm)

      SCUBAFROG – Armed guards have been on premises of many mass shootings, and have done nothing. “

      First off, I’m not advocating anything, just wanted to fact check you. The first half of your sentence is correct, yes there have been armed “guards” at many mass shootings whether it was private security, on/off duty police, or concealed carry civilians but the second part of your sentence, “and have done nothing” is entirely your opinion and entirely incorrect.    

      • scubafrog March 15, 2018 (7:16 pm)

        There have been plenty instances where armed guards have fled mass shootings without acting, Howard.  I’ll list two immediately:  The Orlando club.  Or the armed on-campus police officer AND Deputies who Sat outside the Highschool, whilst the shooter massacred the Florida High School students (knowing the shooter was inside).

        You Howard…. are a liar in this instance.  All I ask for is honesty for our posters. 

        Our posters who want gun control have all been honest so far.  However Howard, I fact-checked your slander and libel against my claims, and you’re “pants on fire” as politifact would say.   I guess I just hope you’ll try harder next time, a good conversation involves The Truth.

  • Azimuth March 14, 2018 (7:23 pm)

    It’s sad how much time we spend talking about guns. Get rid of them already and find a better hobby.

    • fear sells March 14, 2018 (8:35 pm)

      Agreed.  But for some sad people gun ownership is not a hobby, it’s a disease borne out of unsubstantiated (and, in fact, self-perpetuated) fear. 

      These people are told to be afraid, and in their fear they think more guns will somehow keep them and their families and possessions safe.  It’s a delusion, but one that needs to acknowledged.

      • Jethro Marx March 14, 2018 (9:18 pm)

        Fear and delusion, huh? You’re painting with some broad strokes there. One way to win an argument is to demonize the other side, or at least label them as wackos.

         There are plenty of wacko gun nuts, but wackos are actually pretty evenly distributed across society’s divisions.

         Most of the discussion around guns in this country is sorta like if you decided there were too many rats in Seattle and you proposed (stridently!) that we must pass laws preventing pet stores from selling rats.

         What is your practical and enactable idea for addressing the problem? Or will we accept that neither government nor gun ownership can ultimately keep us safe, much less free from fear?

        • fear sells March 14, 2018 (9:40 pm)

          Yep, for some people gun ownership is a result of fear and delusion.  

          You never said you disagreed with that statement.  So let’s start there. 

          Do you disagree that, for some people, gun ownership is a result of fear and delusion?

          I’m interested to hear your response.

          • Jethro Marx March 15, 2018 (12:28 am)

            If people have a disease, and that disease is a mental illness, sure, it could manifest in a million different ways. Being super excited about owning what you think are cool guns doesn’t mean you’re mentally ill. Same with getting super into, say, pimping out your Honda Civic so it can drive 185, or overclocking your computer. Sometimes it makes you kinda weird, but it doesn’t, say, increase the likelihood that you will engage in homicide. Possessing even one gun does indisputably increase the odds that it will end up discharging into you or a family member, somehow. Yet the fact remains, most people that own guns aren’t crazy about them, and see the wisdom in generally keeping their mouths shut about it, for a variety of reasons.

             Given that recovering the myriad guns in the private market by seizure or buyback is simply not possible, have you thought of a solution yet?

          • fear sells March 15, 2018 (2:38 pm)

            Jethro,

            First, wise of you to not disagree with me, but more than a bit weaselly of you to skirt the issue so widely.  

            I completely stand by my point that some people own guns because of fear.  I take it by your silence that you now agree with that point.  Good.

            I also said that some people own guns because of a delusion.  A delusion is not a mental illness, so your comments there are irrelevant.  But it seems you do eventually get around to my point–that owning a gun increases the chance that you or someone you care about will suffer from gun violence.  And that is precisely my point–some gun owners have the misconception (delusion) that owning a gun will make them safer.  It has been shown time and time again that it does not.

            I do not understand why (or how!) you are arguing against these points.  There are a substantial number of people who own guns because of fear and the idea that owning a gun will make them safer.

            Second, your question.  To be clear, you are asking me to provide a solution to gun violence that does not include removing any guns?   And you want my solution?  My dear Jethro, I’d make ammunition illegal.

            (What’s your solution, by the way?)

          • Jethro Marx March 16, 2018 (9:15 am)

            I do, indeed, know that for some, fear and delusion are powerful motivations; that’s true for owning guns, wanting to ban guns, all sorts of stuff. I don’t know why you think I’m weaselly- I guess I consider a delusion a symptom, possibly of a mental illness. But we don’t make laws for everyone because of a few.

             As I said before, I don’t think there’s an easy solution; and my point about lots of guns out there is the same for ammunition. Laws enacted usually grandfather in what’s already owned. The government certainly knows what would happen if they passed a law that involved seizing by force guns or ammunition, and that’s why it’ll probably never happen. TJ more or less threatens to go out in a blaze on gunfire, and that’s a pretty common sentiment.

             I think you’d find banning ammunition would be ruled unconstitutional, and there’s a lot of things you just couldn’t do short of a constitutional amendment, which gets pretty Pandora boxy pretty quick.

             Simple stuff: institute a nationwide, constantly available buyback for any gun. Not going to stop mass shootings, but probably very effective at reducing the actual leading causes of gun death, suicide and accidental shootings.

             Without a constitutional convention, given the right lawmakers, we could probably license owners and register their guns and that would make it harder for someone who wants to commit a crime to get a gun, but again, there would be blood and chaos. And I guess about a quarter of gun owners wouldn’t comply and would become criminals.

             I think, in the broad view, we ought to throw a lot of money at schools and healthcare, especially mental health and drug treatment. Not popular, but we ought to have a society where anyone, anytime, can get whatever treatment they need. It’s rare that no one knows that someone is troubled before they kill themselves or others, but quite common that the resources to help them just ain’t there, and they slip through the holes in the system.

             To be sure, no law-abiding gun owner has ever committed homicide, no matter how large their collection of scary-looking guns.

          • Freedom First March 15, 2018 (6:50 pm)

            When we have a group of people who straight up admit to wanting to seize our guns and crush our civil rights it is not a delusion to want to own a capable firearm. 

        • logic second March 15, 2018 (8:36 pm)

          @FF

          Right.  Everyone paying attention?  Remember how I said fear and delusion were primary forces in gun ownership  for a certain demographic?

          Here we have someone who is simultaneously arguing against those point and exactly representing those same damn points.

          A) He suggests there are a group of people who want to seize his guns (This is where the fear part comes into play)

          and

          B) implies that if the government tries to crush his civil right to own a gun he will use his guns to go to war against his own country (And this is where the delusions come into play–delusions, in this case, on at least two fronts–one that the government is coming for his guns and two that if they did he would go to war (and of course, in this scenario, promptly be shot and killed) with the US).

          I mean…  I guess I rest my case.

    • TreeHouse March 14, 2018 (9:20 pm)

      I agree. I have to say that the people who obsess over guns are really weird. I saw a video on CNN where a bunch of couples were renewing their wedding vows with AR-15s at a church in response to the uproar of gun control the week after the 17 children were murdered. That is really odd behavior. I don’t understand how people can value an object with no other value than to kill over the lives of children. 

      • Jethro Marx March 15, 2018 (12:06 am)

        Strange behavior, indeed: I don’t care about those nutty people, but I care a great deal about the nuttiness of a society that thinks it’s news. What percentage of Americans brandish guns at their weddings or vow renewals or assorted moments of import? 0.0000001%? Less? I bet more people drink motor oil or do some other similarly nutty thing, but that’s all Jerry Springer stuff, not news that could possibly be relevant to any national discussion or analysis of our country in a demographic sense. What does it say about us as a people that we take this $%*# seriously? And then repeat it as if we are not speaking nonsense?

  • TJ March 14, 2018 (11:09 pm)

    Scubafrog, news flash for you…a gun ban and retrieval of arms is not reality. Maybe you are just talking about AR’s, but even that is a long road. I will say that I have a small collection…1 shotgun, 2 hunting rifles, 4 handguns, and 2 AR’s. That being said, I don’t belong to the NRA, and can see some changes that make sense. Getting rid of gun show sales, buying age 21, tougher sentences for felons with guns, bump stocks history. Those are a reality. Government coming for my arms would not be a good idea. Not an option

    • Lagartija Nick March 15, 2018 (7:41 am)

      Nine weapons is not a “small collection” it is a small arsenal! What on Earth do you need 9 weapons for? You realize you only have two hands, right?

      Furthermore, you have repeatedly stated that you flout the laws on this message board (today, you said you cheat on your taxes, a couple weeks ago you said you illegally go into oncoming traffic to get around busses at bus bulbs, and I’m pretty sure that is was you who said you speed down residential side streets to avoid the limits on arterials.) One has to wonder if you’re so willing to evade the law, how many of your guns were acquired illegally? Maybe local law enforcement needs to be made aware of your small “collection”.

    • TreeHouse March 15, 2018 (11:03 am)

      9 guns including 2 ARs? I can’t imagine what your outlook on the Seattle community must be if you feel the need to go out and buy so many guns including military style weapons. Are you that paranoid for your safety? I can’t imagine shelling out that kind of money for so many weapons unless I was truly scared of something. Like the person above stated, you only have two hands. That is no “small collection” TJ.

    • scubafrog March 15, 2018 (12:01 pm)

      TJ it’s mind-boggling that you whine about people not “standing up for the Flag during the National Anthem”, while you stockpile arms to potentially use against our Flag.  My goodness.

      Someday I do hope Federal Agents will go in and take your weapons, particularly your assault rifles.  The only reason the M16 was engineered is to kill a maximum amount of human beings.  The AR is a poor weapon for anything else (defense/hunting etc.).

      • Jethro Marx March 15, 2018 (6:01 pm)

        You see a big difference between a hunter who uses a bolt-action .308 (common big game rifle) and an AR-10? (less commonly used for hunting, but feels just the same to an elk) I guess you like people exercising their right to stand or not stand or say or not say what they like, while TJ thinks they ought to be shamed but likes people to exercise their right to keep and bear arms. Almonds and hazelnuts taste different, but both have a characteristic nuttiness to them.

  • Dad March 14, 2018 (11:34 pm)

    The teachers at my 8yo daughter’s private, part time school planned to lead the children in this political rally today. Thankfully, they warned us about that and my wife decided to keep her home instead of letting her be used to further the teachers’ political agenda.  I suppose we can use it as a lesson about not always conforming to authority figures and peer pressure.  

    I’d probably support restrictions on guns, but leading elementary age students (some younger than my daughter) to a political rally still strikes me as an abuse of teacher’s authority.

    • Also a parent March 15, 2018 (1:51 pm)

      I am fervently anti-gun and ridiculously liberal and I also find something off about elementary school kids being involved (if parents want to take their kids and do political stuff that’s fine, of course). 

      In high school, and even middle school, if the kids instigate and organize it then that’s different, but I agree that elementary school seems awfully young, no matter the politics involved.

  • Concerned March 15, 2018 (4:29 pm)
    BUT BUT THE CONSTITUTION MARCH 15, 2018 (9:40 AM)

    @Concerned 

    What a silly and pointless comment.  If you having nothing to add to the conversation step aside and let the adults talk.

    Concerned: Yes, I agree, your comment that you feel that everyday police officers shouldn’t have guns is pointless and silly. It also shows just how woefully ignorant you are of what the police have to deal with and/or that you really just don’t care about officer safety. 

    Here let me give you an example. I spoke with an officer who a few years back worked the South precinct. He told me that on average, they would confiscate about 7guns a week just in traffic stops. 

    So you tell me how an officer in Seattle is supposed to deal with that situation without being armed themselves? 

     “Oh excuse me criminal with most likely an illegal gun. Could you please hand that over and by the way, you’re under arrest, so please come along peacefully”. 

    Yeah, that would go over really well if you live in la la land.

    So maybe if you’re going to make such a ridiculous statement that patrol officers shouldn’t be armed with guns and say you actually thought about that, maybe take the time to think it through.

  • Peter March 16, 2018 (7:47 am)

    Obviously, an emotionally-charged topic.  And, with good reason.  I’m glad to see it can stay mostly civil on this forum with the diverse opinions presented.  I suspect the mod(s) deserve at least some of the credit for that :)

    I don’t know TJ and I’m not trying to defend him/her, but what TJ describes owning is not completely unusual.  Some people collect guns.  Some people collect cars.  Some people have 10 cars.  Some (few) people have 50 – 100 or more cars with dedicated warehouse space to house them.  They do it for fun as a hobby, and/or the investment potential.  You may not agree with their purchasing choices, but they have every right to do so as long as they are complying with the law.  I could go into the cars kill more people…, but I know they have different intended purposes.    

    True story:  I know someone who needed some paperwork signed by SPD, so they could give it to the BATF in order to make a modification to a gun they already owned.  Completely legal and the gun would’ve been arguably less dangerous after the modification.  SPD’s response:  “We’re not going to sign that.”  Why not?  Essentially:  “We don’t want to.”  Said person is mentally stable, employed, and has zero criminal record.    No logical reason to deny the request.  Especially since the person was trying to comply with the law.  Said person found a legal workaround, but that kind of response from SPD is EXACTLY why some gun owners are so fearful when there’s talk of restricting gun rights. It’s a totalitarian state response where the government tells you which laws apply to you and which don’t.          

    Just for the record, I’m socially liberal, not an NRA member, and I think some reforms are definitely in order.

    • Different fears March 16, 2018 (9:34 am)

      @Peter

      I’m a bit puzzled about some of your points.  You have an entire paragraph devoted to saying that some people own guns (yeah, we know), some people own them as a hobby (yeah, we know), and they have a legal right to own guns (again, we know). 

      What is your point?  None of this was being debated in any of the threads.  Nowhere has anyone argued that people don’t own guns or that they don’t (currently!) have a legal right to do so.

      I think you have missed the actual debate flowing through the comments: should the laws be changed, and if so, how.

      As for the hearsay story about the SPD, I find your conclusion that it is “a totalitarian state response where the government tells you which laws apply to you and which don’t” to be just a bit extreme.

      All that said, I agree wholeheartedly with most of your points–including that gun owners are “so fearful when there’s talk of restricting gun rights.”

      I agree that some gun owners have a ‘fear’ of gun restrictions.  I also think that some young students have a ‘fear’ of getting shot to death in a classroom.  It’s funny we use the same word to describe both…  

      “I’m afraid the government might change the laws regarding my ownership of this physical object!”

      “I’m afraid I someone will shoot and kill me!”

      Choose your side, folks.

      At the end you mention you “think some reforms are definitely in order.”  Amen to that.

      • Peter March 16, 2018 (1:19 pm)

        @DF:

        Apologies for being a bit long-winded and no, I did not miss the original intended purpose of the debate.  Let me try to answer by condensing into nuggets:

        1)  Everyone is entitled to their opinion  about someone’s hobby, but demonizing TJ by calling his multiple firearms a “small arsenal”  does nothing to promote thoughtful reflection by the opposing point of view.  What TJ describes hardly qualifies.  I tried to point out a lot of people think owning multiple cars is wrong and wasteful, and that cars kill more people than guns, but realized that wasn’t going to work well as an analogy and I would receive the predictable response, so I backed away.

        2)  The SPD story isn’t hearsay.  It’s a personal story.  I wasn’t trying to equate our current system with a totalitarian state.  My point was that when government officials decide on a whim which gun (or other) laws they will abide by and which they won’t, it creates cynicism and distrust towards government in general and feeds the paranoia of the hardcore gun rights folks, specifically.  Hardly a recipe for bringing desired change in this area, which I agree should happen.

        @Scuba:  I’m not so sure I agree about kids these days.  It seems a large percentage are unable to function without a smart phone in front of their face.  However, that’s a debate for another day :)  Implying that the opposing view is intellectually inferior to the one you hold will certainly convince them of their folly.

        • different fears March 16, 2018 (1:41 pm)

          @Peter,

          Thank you for your well-reasoned reply–and no need to apologize for being long-winded, it (for me at least) is a complicated issue that is hard to tackle briefly.

          I understand now what you mean about the car ownership comment, and it’s actually a very good point (though I also understand why you walked away from the analogy–you’d have had an awful lot of misunderstanding and angry comments!).  There is no doubt that cars are bad for our world, and so it seems a good comparison to make in many ways.

          Your story about SPD is I agree vexing–the laws we have should be enforced, blindly and well.  At least in Seattle I get frustrated about this on multiple levels–parking, speeding, etc., so I share your concern there.

          Thanks again for your reply.

          • Peter March 17, 2018 (7:19 am)

            @DF:

            And thank for the reasonable discourse, even though we might not agree on all points. 

            I neglected to add that my wife is a HS teacher.  She’s been through 3 lock-downs so far this year.  So, it’s not like I’m oblivious to the concerns.

  • scubafrog March 16, 2018 (9:55 am)

    What’s apparent is that Children are much smarter than the Adults in 2018. 

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