32 Replies to "West Seattle development: 3824 California's new design; 4505 42nd back to Design Review; 7-lot Beach Drive site for sale; more "

• JanS November 14, 2014 (7:50 pm)

  I must not have a discerning eye…looks like all the other new buildings built lately. Do they all hire the same architect? (you know, the one with no imagination?)

  Still, it’s better looking than what’s there now….sigh

• coffee November 14, 2014 (10:02 pm)

  Agreed. Same ugly siding, same ugly box style homes, same ugly brown colors. Ick.

• Bruce November 14, 2014 (10:02 pm)

  The list of teardowns is depressing to me when I think there has to be a better answer in our environmental recycling city.

• stacy November 14, 2014 (10:54 pm)

  Please, please tell me I’m missing something here…
  “50 residential units… Parking for 15 vehicles to be provided…”

• West Seattle Hipster November 14, 2014 (11:00 pm)

  Good points so far. JanS is spot on, all of the recent construction in WS are hideous and unimaginative.

  .

  And Bruce makes a great point. For a city that aspires to be environmentally friendly (ban plastic bags!), we sure like to tear down and build new buildings instead of restoring what we have. The city that we strive to be like (San Francisco) has retained their older buildings and also their heritage.

• John November 14, 2014 (11:04 pm)

  JanS,
  If you don’t have a discerning eye, why make such a comment?
  –
  Would you also complain about how all the craftsman bungalows look the same as their counterparts of the time and all by the same architect?
  –
  In the case above, If you followed WSB’s link http://johnstonarchitects.com/ you might find out that Johnston Architects work is strong, thoughtful and varied.
  –
  Full disclosure – I am in no way connected to this firm, but I have admired their work in publications and architecture tours.
  –
  coffee, your comment inaccurately portrays the rendering. This drawing shows far more wood than typical boxes and wood is what you critics want.
  These show much more articulation and texture than simple boxes. And the ugly brown you complain about is expensive stained wood siding.
  –
  After criticisms like these, I also ask, ‘Just what style and color would be acceptable?
  –
  Bruce, tear downs in Seattle are often heavily salvaged except for asbestos and lead contaminated parts. Second Use now on 6th Ave has long been my favorite for scoring deals on salvaged house items.

• JanS November 14, 2014 (11:40 pm)

  I said…maybe I don’t have a discerning eye, not that I don’t actually. Beauty , I suppose is in the eye of the beholder. I’d simply like to see more than a box on every corner, with the same colors, and the same vertical siding. So, you’re a fan of the architect. I’m not, as is my right. I see what I see. We all, including you, have opinions.

  We do have some better looking apartment buildings in West Seattle. I even like the design of the new Whitaker building. Or “The Dakota” on Calif. Ave. This particular one doesn’t thrill me. But, as I said, will be better than what is there now. And, who knows, when it’s finished, maybe I’ll change my mind.

• JanS November 14, 2014 (11:44 pm)

  @Stacy. They are not required to have parking in that location. Never mind that parking in that block or the next one, or anywhere around there is near to impossible. I’m sure they firmly believe that the tenants, being so close to Calif. and Alaska, will not have cars, so not a lot of parking needed. The ground floor retail can use the parking lot next door. Plenty of spaces there, they say.

• Jw November 15, 2014 (12:24 am)

  @john, I think most people think of this “style” is more of a trend. The volume of new homes built in this style is pretty amazing. It’s not one I prefer at all, but I will say it is very functional. I do however like the plan above. They’ve done much more than most with the exterior, a big plus. I think the layout of the site is really the best part though. That could be a cool place to live.
  – I am interested to see how the “expensive” wood will weather/age. I think it has potential to look bad fast, or require a lot of upkeep.
  – while the salvage places are great they actually take/buy very little unless you really have something unique or cool. Unfortunately a huge amount of most tear downs actually does go right to the dump.

• Gene November 15, 2014 (5:02 am)

  Wonder how vigilant the parking lot on 42nd is/will be in enforcing its 3 hour limit- which I think is 24/7? Just curious if anyone has ever been ticketed by them & if so – did you pay?
  If you don’t pay- what are consequences- anyone know?
  Basically wondering if getting ticketed really means anything?
  Now that I think about it- what about all the other 3 hour lots in WS?

  • WSB November 15, 2014 (7:26 am)

    I’ve been ticketed in one of the 3-hour lots.

• Karen Lyons November 15, 2014 (8:04 am)

  OK, maybe it’s just me, but I can’t imagine living in a space that is almost all windows?! I guess you have to be dressed and very neat in your home since the public will be watching? Also, there is much less wall space or places to put furniture for relaxing.

• West Sea Neighbor November 15, 2014 (8:16 am)

  @Gene,

  I see people out there marking tires and ticketing cars all the time.

  John

• Rick November 15, 2014 (8:32 am)

  I’d take getting a ticket in that lot any day over what I did get. Stolen.

• Howdy November 15, 2014 (9:16 am)

  When I parked in the Junction free lot located on the block behind the Senior Center recently I observed two different drivers park in the free lot and walk across the streets to the new building there. Both couples were carrying groceries bags (not from QFC) and their cars were still there when I returned from my dinner. I really appreciate the free lots and I hope they aren’t abused. Glad to hear they are actively monitored.

• Awesome November 15, 2014 (9:25 am)

  One of the tear downs listed is on my block and is barely above a squat, past tenants were in the habit of dumping their garbage on neighbors’ property, including mine. Tear it down and good riddance!

• Gene November 15, 2014 (9:26 am)

  Guess I’m asking-those who were ticketed-did you pay? What is the penalty for NOT paying? This isn’t the same as City of Seattle Parking Enforcement doing the ticketing. What I am getting at here-is I can see the possibility-with all the new build in & around the Junction– folks ignoring the 3 hour rule in these lots. So they get a ticket-if they don’t pay-what happens? If nothing happens-then what is the incentive for those folks to follow the rule?

• John November 15, 2014 (9:35 am)

  Hyperbole abounds;
  ” a box on every corner, with the same colors, and the same vertical siding.”
  “The volume of new homes built in this style is pretty amazing.”
  –
  The number of houses built in this boxy style are now and will remain in the small minority of West Seattle housing stock. Just drive around, most blocks have no new houses of any style.
  But, absolutely this style is now trendy, just like in the last round of tear downs when McMansions and fake craftsman were the rage.
  Just as craftsman, modernism is a well established style with roots in the Bauhaus movement in Germany in the early 1900s.
  –
  @Karen Lyons, having the incredible fortune of being raised in a mid century modern house with large “new fangled” picture windows opening up our home to the glorious western views of Puget Sound and the Olympics, I have the opposite reaction to fenestration.
  But your concern is a common one. My wife from the flat view-less Midwest at first had similar trepidation until we moved into a wall-of-windows mid century modern and she experienced the unique way the windows bring the outside in and make it part of your life.
  –
  The example above is clearly not nearly almost all windows as stated. The windows are placed high enough to allow freedom of furniture layout and actually allow more freedom and space for layout because their is not just one or two smaller windows which dictate the layout of the room.
  Another big advantage of large windows is daylighting, designing houses to allow daylight to penetrate and cut down on electrical lighting and energy consumption for the entire life of the structure. Issues of privacy, only a problem at night when the interior has lights on and is brighter than the exterior can easily be dealt with. I like easily adjustable bottom-up window coverings that still allow eye level views.
  Another factor addressed above is the units with large glazing are a story above street level where street level people have limited angled sight lines. It is simply not possible for the public to be watching to see if your place is neat without a fifteen foot ladder.
  The street level units are live-work with the work part fronting the outside.
  –
  And Jw is right. A great deal of tear-down material ends up at the dump for numerous reasons including dimensional lumber sizes having changed and old lumber lacking structural certification.
  But their are now options that were not available just a decade ago. It is now cheaper to sort the debris. Drywalll and plaster are now recycled at lower cost than dumping. Un-painted wood goes into the clean green category and is recycled as compost.
  Expensive copper plumbing and wiring are also culled for cash recycling.

• datamuse November 15, 2014 (9:58 am)

  Personally I love lots of windows. The more daylight I can get (especially in the winter), the better. If one has privacy concerns, there’s these things called curtains.

• coffee November 15, 2014 (10:46 am)

  John, I say its ugly because look at all of the new construction in west seattle. They are all the same basic concepts, square like, flat roofs, in brown tones, with the same inexpensive siding, there is nothing interesting to them at all. 1 main room, living room, eating area, and kitchen. That to me is cheap construction. When you drive in areas where there is no new construction you see a wonderful mix of houses. Colorful, different textures, pitched roofs, etc. I just find this construction to be bland and ugly.

• wetone November 15, 2014 (11:48 am)

  ” 7-story structure containing 50 residential units, 6,900 sq. ft. of lodging use and 3,600 sq. ft. of ground floor retail use. Parking for 15 vehicles to be provided below grade. ”

  If this gets built it looks like the senior center is gone and will be looking for a new home ? From an accessibility point there is little parking now and none soon. The schools and churches will be following not too far off for same reasons. Shows total lack of responsibility by Dow, Rasmussen, city counsel and our great mayor for what they have and are allowing to happen. The city leaders and local politicians have done zero to stop or slow things down even as they are seeing the problems their causing……let alone any plan for infrastructure improvements… and people wonder why traffic’s getting worse. There is no one to blame but the city. Investors and builders are just doing what they are allowed. There should be a complete shut down of these type of builds until a competent non biased outside review is done. How about crime in W/S ? I live a few blocks west from junction (25yrs) in the last year car and home break-ins have took a big jump (really don’t care what outside sources say)we live here. In the last couple weeks multiple homes including ours have been broken into. Is this related to the rapid growth or just something else…….

  • WSB November 15, 2014 (12:03 pm)

    Nope, the Senior Center isn’t going anywhere. This is across the alley. **edit** Forgot to mention that Leon Capelouto, who is developing this site, told us when we first reported on this project in January 2014 that everyone who needs a parking space will get one because he has overflow in Capco Plaza just to the south (QFC, Altamira, etc.), which was built under different rules, so besides the businesses, it has 160 apartments and 360 spaces.

• Elise November 15, 2014 (12:25 pm)

  Seattle is changing and so is West Seattle. We are becoming a big city with big city problems – it is going to happen. I am embracing it.

  The newer modern homes are typically built green – using recycled building material from older homes, super energy efficient and insulated (with recycled products). Personally I love the new modern look and have purchased one of these new homes. Best of all – it is .4 miles from my work. I can get rid of my car and walk to work. I can’t wait to move in!

• 3824 cal November 15, 2014 (2:57 pm)

  I don’t think the design at 3824 is so bad… the courtyard idea looks very inviting. The exteriors seem better than most.

  The larger problem to me is the 13 live/work units. That area could have some real vitality with a coffee shop and other actual retail (like the composites show). There are live/work units already in that area that just haven’t worked well and certainly don’t draw coffee and bakery shops. They seem more like live/hobby units, since the work areas are so small to be useful for a flourishing business that draws foot traffic.

• junctioneer November 15, 2014 (3:32 pm)

  Some new construction is hideous, some looks much nicer than what was there before. I’m pretty positive on this design, and appreciate the open feel of it.

• Debra November 15, 2014 (4:12 pm)

  We tone I could not agree more, Elise glad you can work and live so close, the vast majority this is not an option
  The density brings more yet affix and crime and there has been zero long range planning. The actual planning that was created 15 years ago has been ignored
  The design of these cheaply made density buildings are not in alignment with the urban village plan
  We demanded that development blend with the old world neighborhoods and not be bulky buildings that loom over single family homes, what we got were developers with deep pockets, spineless politicians and an influx of people who have no value for the historic nature of our community
  Our leaders could take a page from portland
  Our schools can’t absorb the density and of course the answer is to tax the home owners right out of their homes
  Shame on them

• JanS November 15, 2014 (6:41 pm)

  look, John…I like windows..I have big ones in my 26+ yo apt. (actually a boring box, too). So I’m not against that. I, too, welcome the sunshine, and used to enjoy the teeny view from my deck until Element 42 was built across the street and blocks out any sunset I might see, and late afternoon sunshine in the summer. And then the trees right out front were cut down, so not bringing nature in, either…sigh.

  Like I said..it’s is my opinion and my opinion only, just like your opinion is yours only. Hyperbole? lol…driven through the Alaska junction lately? I see tall boxes..

• JanS November 15, 2014 (6:46 pm)

  3824cal…I agree about the ground floor. So much potential, yet…

  I remember gas station, grocery store, and more in that area(anyone remember Penn’s Dog House? – lol). It definitely needs some gathering places. There is Meeples down the street, and there is Thunder Road guitars, for retail…but that area deserves a little more…a decent cafe, a little neighborhood restaurant…would be nice. The residents of that new building would love things within walking distance.

• JanS November 15, 2014 (6:48 pm)

  @datamuse..thumbs up…curtains are a godsend….:D

• Jw November 15, 2014 (8:30 pm)

  I think there’s some misunderstanding on the whole “green” building thing. It’s really a sales pitch.
  – most materials made from recycled materials have been for a long time. Maybe Nucor should call its steel green? The truth is there is no new magic in the “box”.
  – also again I will reiterate MOST materials from the tear down hit the dump. Can the recycle 2×4? Yep. But there 99 cents at depot, and they can’t recycle wood with nails in it. Can they recycle drywall? Yep, but not the wet stuff scraped of the floor of the transfer station.
  -it easier for a contractor to fill 1 dumpster.

• Alphonse November 15, 2014 (10:27 pm)

  I also don’t understand why there’s no retail planned at 3824 California. There are no coffee shops between Freshy’s and Hotwire and, just in that block (between Charlestown and Andover), there are over 100 units going in over the next few years. There are several bus stops right there as well. Seems like there would be a built-in customer base.

• John November 16, 2014 (11:02 am)

  Jw,
  Nucor could call its steel ‘green’ in the sense that all of that re-bar it produces is from recycled steel as opposed to the old Bethlehem Steel.
  –
  It is sad that indeed MOST materials from a tear down hit the dump.
  But, far more materials are being separated and recycled than ever before as noted above.
  –
  Can the 2×4 be recycled in new construction? Unfortunately, no. This is because old 2x4s were actually 2″ by 4″ while current 2X4s are 1 1/2″ by 3 1/2″ so they are not compatible with modern framing layouts. Old 2x4s are also not allowed because they lack structural certification stamp required by today’s building codes.
  Finally, after you cut off the nail embedded split ends and sections, the old 2x4s are too short for framing.
  –
  A 2×4 stud at Home Depot will run you about $3.00 ($2.64 plus tax), not 99 cents.
  –
  Wood with nails absolutely can be and is recycled.
  –
  You are right, it is easier to just fill a dumpster, especially on small jobs.
  –
  But many of the recycled materials are being directed elsewhere and people are not aware of it. When I remodeled my home 14 years ago, I had to rent a box truck to load and transport all of the old plaster and drywall to a recycling facility in the Tacoma harbor area. Now there are other options.
  Even concrete, once commonly dumped is now recycled.
  –
  JanS “…it’s is my opinion and my opinion only, just like your opinion is yours only.” Whoops. I was not merely expressing “my opinion only” as you apparently skipped the link and that “I have admired their work in publications and architecture tours.”
  –
  What’s the difference? Publications and architectural tours are not the realm of “one’s opinion only”. But represent some sort of consensus of respected people that are trained in architecture and planning.
  –
  Hyperbole abounds. “Hyperbole? lol…driven through the Alaska junction lately? I see tall boxes..” not quite “I’d simply like to see more than a box on every corner, with the same colors, and the same vertical siding.” Please do drive from Admiral Junction to California Junction and count how many corners actually have boxes with the same colors and same siding.
  –
  Jans, in the context of Johnston Architects awards and projects, I wonder why your remarks are so mean, “Do they all hire the same architect? (you know, the one with no imagination?)”?

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