Comments on: As-it-happened coverage: SPD surveillance-cameras meeting on Alki – ‘We’re not hiding anything’ http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki West Seattle news, information, and discussion, updated multiple times daily, 24/7/365 Fri, 24 May 2013 22:50:06 +0200 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Gharp http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-985901 Gharp Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:12:00 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-985901 @citizen: As far as sniffing traffic, the WAPs can only see traffic flowing across them, so they'd only be able to see your traffic if a device is connected. The Aruba's do have the ability to spoof SSIDs as well as set up honeypots, although I don't think SPD would arbitrarily use those features. The <a href="http://www.arubanetworks.com/pdf/technology/whitepapers/wp_AirWave-VisualRF.pdf" rel="nofollow">tracking</a> however doesn't require an active connection, and can show any wifi enabled device superimposed on a map in real time. Basically, if you have a smartphone, they'll see your phone's name and unique ID wandering around a map in real time. @eagleview: I'm sorry, but "wifi smog" is complete BS. <a href="http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2007/07/new-study-suggests-that-cell-phone-sensitives-dont-exist/" rel="nofollow">Read</a>. <a href="http://arstechnica.com/science/2007/11/autism-and-wifi-a-detailed-debunking/" rel="nofollow">more</a>. <a href="http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/12/72265?currentPage=all" rel="nofollow">science</a>. Protip: <a href="http://hps.org/hpspublications/articles/rfradiation.html" rel="nofollow">Peer reviewed science</a> is your friend. @citizen: As far as sniffing traffic, the WAPs can only see traffic flowing across them, so they’d only be able to see your traffic if a device is connected. The Aruba’s do have the ability to spoof SSIDs as well as set up honeypots, although I don’t think SPD would arbitrarily use those features. The tracking however doesn’t require an active connection, and can show any wifi enabled device superimposed on a map in real time. Basically, if you have a smartphone, they’ll see your phone’s name and unique ID wandering around a map in real time.

@eagleview: I’m sorry, but “wifi smog” is complete BS.
Read. more. science.
Protip: Peer reviewed science is your friend.

]]> By: CR Johnson http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-985607 CR Johnson Tue, 19 Mar 2013 05:34:41 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-985607 Sitting on my front porch I noticed two police sneaking down the hill, approaching me they demanded i stand down. They then asked for my identification. Since I don't carry such at home that gave them the right to escort me into my home of 40 years, inspect the interior of my home to find an ID. They then informed my someone was being assaulted inside my place. Several minutes they simply left my location? The wrong people with even worse intentions. Now they are placing cameras in our back yards? Amazing. Sitting on my front porch I noticed two police
sneaking down the hill, approaching me they
demanded i stand down. They then asked for my
identification. Since I don’t carry such at home
that gave them the right to escort me into my
home of 40 years, inspect the interior of my
home to find an ID. They then informed my someone
was being assaulted inside my place. Several
minutes they simply left my location? The wrong
people with even worse intentions. Now they are
placing cameras in our back yards? Amazing.

]]> By: Carol O. http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-985198 Carol O. Mon, 18 Mar 2013 17:22:07 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-985198 Just signed the petition, hope others will sign it too if they haven't already done so. It would be great if the petition had a seperate article and post space on the WSB, for maximum visibility. Just signed the petition, hope others will sign it too if they haven’t already done so. It would be great if the petition had a seperate article and post space on the WSB, for maximum visibility.

]]> By: Abbie http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983877 Abbie Sat, 16 Mar 2013 02:37:11 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983877 @Avrian -- here are two suggestions for advertising for your change.com petition. 1.) Facebook offers very effective, fairly inexpensive and highly targeted advertising... Details here: https://www.facebook.com/business/connect 2.) Seems like a WSB ad like those to the right might be highly effective. Call WSB’s business-development director Patrick Sand @ 206/293-6302 or e-mail patrick@wsbsales.com @Avrian — here are two suggestions for advertising for your change.com petition. 1.) Facebook offers very effective, fairly inexpensive and highly targeted advertising… Details here: https://www.facebook.com/business/connect 2.) Seems like a WSB ad like those to the right might be highly effective. Call WSB’s business-development director Patrick Sand @ 206/293-6302 or e-mail patrick@wsbsales.com

]]> By: Brandon http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983792 Brandon Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:18:39 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983792 Kinda seems like more ways for the police to not do their jobs. Seattle, that place where they arrested an old lady for flashing a camera at 2am, they all amount to pretty much the same thing. Not catching (or even chasing) real criminals. Kinda seems like more ways for the police to not do their jobs. Seattle, that place where they arrested an old lady for flashing a camera at 2am, they all amount to pretty much the same thing. Not catching (or even chasing) real criminals.

]]> By: eagleview http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983774 eagleview Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:05:01 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983774 Clarification: just an fyi, this above information is absolutely in no way anti-technology, cell-phone, etc. My point is, that according to these scientists, we are way past the "safe" threshold. And for the sake of our children, we better not rely on the government, nor on the studies done by manufacturers of these technologies to inform us as to what we are getting ourselves in to. This wifi mesh is a convenience that a whole lot of people may unknowingly pay a price for... Clarification: just an fyi, this above information is absolutely in no way anti-technology, cell-phone, etc. My point is, that according to these scientists, we are way past the “safe” threshold. And for the sake of our children, we better not rely on the government, nor on the studies done by manufacturers of these technologies to inform us as to what we are getting ourselves in to. This wifi mesh is a convenience that a whole lot of people may unknowingly pay a price for…

]]> By: eagleview http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983768 eagleview Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:29:25 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983768 Besides the slippery-slope infringement on our freedoms which the cameras pose, please educate yourselves as to the HEALTH EFFECTS of living, working, playing in a 24/7 cloud of wifi mesh. Make your own judgements per it, but please at least review the info, and pass it along to people with children, so they can decide what they want for their families health. See: BioInitiative.org This is the result of a concerned group of very respected scientists worldwide, that got together to present the findings of 1000's of studies per the acummulative health effects of the proliferation of electromagnetic frequencies. Our own Dr. Henry Lai, of the U.W. is one of them. (Motorola tried to get him fired years ago from U.W. when he first started bravely voicing concerns). Besides BioInitiative.org, a good You Tube set of videos for easy understanding: Wake up call from Electrosmog (1) Wake up call from Electrosmog (2) both articulated by Dr. Olle Johansson of Karolinka Institute (which awards the Nobel prize for physiology and medicine). On the petition, I would like to see a thumbs down of this wireless mesh, besides the cameras. We will be human guineapigs. Besides the slippery-slope infringement on our freedoms which the cameras pose, please educate yourselves as to the HEALTH
EFFECTS of living, working, playing in a 24/7 cloud of wifi mesh. Make your own judgements per it, but please at least review the info, and pass it along to people with children, so they can decide what they want for their families health.

See: BioInitiative.org
This is the result of a concerned group of very respected scientists worldwide, that got together to present the findings of 1000′s of studies per the acummulative health effects of the proliferation of electromagnetic frequencies.

Our own Dr. Henry Lai, of the U.W. is one of them. (Motorola tried to get him fired years ago from U.W. when he first started bravely voicing concerns).

Besides BioInitiative.org, a good You Tube set of videos for easy understanding:
Wake up call from Electrosmog (1)
Wake up call from Electrosmog (2) both articulated by Dr. Olle Johansson of Karolinka Institute (which awards the Nobel prize for physiology and medicine).
On the petition, I would like to see a thumbs down of this wireless mesh, besides the cameras.
We will be human guineapigs.

]]> By: CE http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983727 CE Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:31:44 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983727 Thanks so much! Thanks so much!

]]> By: WSB http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983711 WSB Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:31:26 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983711 Yes, I'm planning to write an updated story later this morning with that plus the info on the surveillance regulation proposal going to the full council Monday. Yes, I’m planning to write an updated story later this morning with that plus the info on the surveillance regulation proposal going to the full council Monday.

]]> By: CE http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983704 CE Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:12:45 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983704 WSB, is it possible to get a new post at the top of the feed with info about the petition so that it comes to people's attention? WSB, is it possible to get a new post at the top of the feed with info about the petition so that it comes to people’s attention?

]]> By: citizen http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983370 citizen Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:29:26 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983370 Tell us more Gharp. Not many understand the technology. Are you saying they can access wi-fi with or without password protection? Is this like Trapwire? Tell us more Gharp. Not many understand the technology. Are you saying they can access wi-fi with or without password protection? Is this like Trapwire?

]]> By: Gharp http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983340 Gharp Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:48:16 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983340 The cameras are interesting, but I'm more interested in the mesh network... specifically the Aruba wireless access points. I want to know if SPD is going to enable & use the <a href="http://www.arubanetworks.com/pdf/products/DS_AOS_RFPROTECT.pdf" rel="nofollow">RFProtect features</a>, as well as the wifi tracking. These WAPs have the ability to scan & sniff wifi traffic as well as map and track wifi devices in real time down to a couple feet. With the large coverage area of the mesh network, I'd say that has greater privacy implications than the cameras do. The cameras are interesting, but I’m more interested in the mesh network… specifically the Aruba wireless access points.

I want to know if SPD is going to enable & use the RFProtect features, as well as the wifi tracking. These WAPs have the ability to scan & sniff wifi traffic as well as map and track wifi devices in real time down to a couple feet.

With the large coverage area of the mesh network, I’d say that has greater privacy implications than the cameras do.

]]> By: Phil Mocek http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983226 Phil Mocek Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:42:52 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983226 Bearschick: we should be allowed to audit everything about the cameras, as often as we wish, forever. After Tuesday's meeting, there was further discussion with Monty Moss about the system. I'll post audio this weekend and link to it from here. When the topic of public review of various logs came up, Sean Whitcomb (of SPD Public Affairs Unit, heavily involved in their transparency initiative) suggested that such logs be published to <a href="https://data.seattle.gov/" rel="nofollow">data.seattle.gov</a>. I think that's a fine idea. Bearschick: we should be allowed to audit everything about the cameras, as often as we wish, forever.

After Tuesday’s meeting, there was further discussion with Monty Moss about the system. I’ll post audio this weekend and link to it from here. When the topic of public review of various logs came up, Sean Whitcomb (of SPD Public Affairs Unit, heavily involved in their transparency initiative) suggested that such logs be published to data.seattle.gov. I think that’s a fine idea.

]]> By: bearschick http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983197 bearschick Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:45:32 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983197 This is what I put on my petition signature.... The Parks & Rec department remove waste from garbage cans located at the base of the poles on which the Alki cameras are attached. That's Parks & Rec domain. I disagree with the SPD claim the cameras are located outside the park. Really? Then why is Parks & Rec caring for an area that is actually not their responsibility. The benefit of FPD transmitting live patient data to Harborview would be valid if the mesh network actually covered West Seattle. But with the placement of the cameras, more than 95% of West Seattle does not benefit. It's a moot benefit. The cameras, if truly for port security, should only be able to scan the water. No land. And they should not be able to see the beach while looking towards the sand. The cameras, if they are activated, should only be able to view the water and their focus adjusted for that. No scanning towards land should be allowed. If activated, a panel from the community should be allowed to audit camera movement logs on a monthly basis for the first 6 months, quarterly for the second 6 months, then perhaps semi-annually. Sorry SPD, you have not earned our trust on privacy masking. YOU HAVE TO RE-EARN IT. This is what I put on my petition signature….

The Parks & Rec department remove waste from garbage cans located at the base of the poles on which the Alki cameras are attached. That’s Parks & Rec domain. I disagree with the SPD claim the cameras are located outside the park. Really? Then why is Parks & Rec caring for an area that is actually not their responsibility.

The benefit of FPD transmitting live patient data to Harborview would be valid if the mesh network actually covered West Seattle. But with the placement of the cameras, more than 95% of West Seattle does not benefit. It’s a moot benefit.

The cameras, if truly for port security, should only be able to scan the water. No land. And they should not be able to see the beach while looking towards the sand. The cameras, if they are activated, should only be able to view the water and their focus adjusted for that. No scanning towards land should be allowed.

If activated, a panel from the community should be allowed to audit camera movement logs on a monthly basis for the first 6 months, quarterly for the second 6 months, then perhaps semi-annually. Sorry SPD, you have not earned our trust on privacy masking. YOU HAVE TO RE-EARN IT.

]]> By: bearschick http://westseattleblog.com/2013/03/spd-surveillance-cameras-meeting-on-alki#comment-983192 bearschick Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:31:28 +0000 http://westseattleblog.com/?p=144633#comment-983192 Hey WSB....can this be a story on the home page so more people know about it? Hey WSB….can this be a story on the home page so more people know about it?

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