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	<title>Comments on: Followup: New Genesee/Avalon stoplight finally working</title>
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	<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working</link>
	<description>West Seattle news, information, and discussion, updated multiple times daily, 24/7/365</description>
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		<title>By: Nancy F.</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-960524</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 01:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-960524</guid>
		<description>@Stef: It doesn&#039;t matter where on the hill the speed bump would be, it can&#039;t have a speed bump for safety reasons. All, I&#039;m doing is reporting what SDOT told me in response to my question at a neighborhood meeting. 

I understand the feeling that there are more speeders, but, again, as I stated, two studies within five years have shown there are not an inordinate number of speeders. I was glad I had a chance to do it myself (the process has since changed) so I could see what, exactly, 30 mph looks like. There are not as many people exceeding the speed limit by a significant amount. Yes, some get up to 35 going down hill, though there weren&#039;t as many as I thought, but they slow down. Anyway, here is a link to info on what&#039;s involved in street speed studies: http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/ntcp_arterial.htm

Another tip SDOT gave was that many speeders are actually residents of the area. So, &quot;the best thing you can do to slow traffic is make sure you are doing the speed limit.&quot; Not the thing we want to hear, but, it also makes sense since we&#039;re the ones most familiar with the routes and traffic patterns. I&#039;m also working on being very conscious of, and respectful of, the speed limits in other people&#039;s neighborhoods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Stef: It doesn&#8217;t matter where on the hill the speed bump would be, it can&#8217;t have a speed bump for safety reasons. All, I&#8217;m doing is reporting what SDOT told me in response to my question at a neighborhood meeting. </p>
<p>I understand the feeling that there are more speeders, but, again, as I stated, two studies within five years have shown there are not an inordinate number of speeders. I was glad I had a chance to do it myself (the process has since changed) so I could see what, exactly, 30 mph looks like. There are not as many people exceeding the speed limit by a significant amount. Yes, some get up to 35 going down hill, though there weren&#8217;t as many as I thought, but they slow down. Anyway, here is a link to info on what&#8217;s involved in street speed studies: <a href="http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/ntcp_arterial.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/ntcp_arterial.htm</a></p>
<p>Another tip SDOT gave was that many speeders are actually residents of the area. So, &#8220;the best thing you can do to slow traffic is make sure you are doing the speed limit.&#8221; Not the thing we want to hear, but, it also makes sense since we&#8217;re the ones most familiar with the routes and traffic patterns. I&#8217;m also working on being very conscious of, and respectful of, the speed limits in other people&#8217;s neighborhoods.</p>
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		<title>By: kayo</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-960354</link>
		<dc:creator>kayo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-960354</guid>
		<description>Amen Nancy F.!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen Nancy F.!</p>
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		<title>By: Stef</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-960250</link>
		<dc:creator>Stef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-960250</guid>
		<description>@Nancy - You don&#039;t put the speed bump on the hill, you put it on the flat at the bottom of the hill.

I find that 15% figure awfully hard to believe based on what I see flying by on a daily basis. I would guess it&#039;s more along the lines of only 15% of people follow the speed limit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nancy &#8211; You don&#8217;t put the speed bump on the hill, you put it on the flat at the bottom of the hill.</p>
<p>I find that 15% figure awfully hard to believe based on what I see flying by on a daily basis. I would guess it&#8217;s more along the lines of only 15% of people follow the speed limit.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy F.</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-960097</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-960097</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to also put out a pitch to remind drivers that in Seattle, every intersection is a crosswalk (as I was informed by SDOT). This means that if you see someone waiting to cross at an intersection, you are required to stop for them.

I&#039;ve seen people stop and scream and swear at people crossing to a park with their kids. I&#039;ve been yelled at for crossing the street, and I&#039;ve been yelled at for stopping for pedestrians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to also put out a pitch to remind drivers that in Seattle, every intersection is a crosswalk (as I was informed by SDOT). This means that if you see someone waiting to cross at an intersection, you are required to stop for them.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen people stop and scream and swear at people crossing to a park with their kids. I&#8217;ve been yelled at for crossing the street, and I&#8217;ve been yelled at for stopping for pedestrians.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy F.</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-960095</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-960095</guid>
		<description>To those of you who are frustrated by the delay on Avalon, I ask that you try to look at it from the point of view of all the citizens passing through that spot. 

When the traffic is backed up to 35th, this meant that trying to turn onto Avalon from Genesee, especially left, before the light, meant that I would wait for all that traffic, plus traffic coming UP Avalon, traffic trying to turn from the other direction on Genesee, while also watching for pedestrians trying to cross the street in either direction, and cars pulling out of several apartment building driveways. 

The Avalon drivers&#039; red light was less than a minute (at least as I timed it this morning). Is even one minute really so long to wait to allow everyone, not just you, to more smoothly proceed along the thoroughfare? 

I understand our own interests and schedules loom ever larger in our own minds, but there are many people other than ourselves with whom we can cooperate. 

To try and put some perspective on it, you benefit from other drivers being inconvenienced. I can&#039;t turn left from 35th onto Avalon between 7 am and 7 pm. I have to go an additional mile through three more lights to get from a frequent stop near the water tower to my house which would otherwise be only 1-1/2 miles all together.

Lastly, to speak up for the SDOT people (and they are people, who live in Seattle and drive on Seattle&#039;s streets), the ones I&#039;ve spoken with about this intersection have been very passionate about their work and highly trained. They are also tasked with balancing the needs of the entire city, not just one small collection of people. Not that they don&#039;t make mistakes. 

I guarantee one has a better chance of influencing decisions before they are made rather than after.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To those of you who are frustrated by the delay on Avalon, I ask that you try to look at it from the point of view of all the citizens passing through that spot. </p>
<p>When the traffic is backed up to 35th, this meant that trying to turn onto Avalon from Genesee, especially left, before the light, meant that I would wait for all that traffic, plus traffic coming UP Avalon, traffic trying to turn from the other direction on Genesee, while also watching for pedestrians trying to cross the street in either direction, and cars pulling out of several apartment building driveways. </p>
<p>The Avalon drivers&#8217; red light was less than a minute (at least as I timed it this morning). Is even one minute really so long to wait to allow everyone, not just you, to more smoothly proceed along the thoroughfare? </p>
<p>I understand our own interests and schedules loom ever larger in our own minds, but there are many people other than ourselves with whom we can cooperate. </p>
<p>To try and put some perspective on it, you benefit from other drivers being inconvenienced. I can&#8217;t turn left from 35th onto Avalon between 7 am and 7 pm. I have to go an additional mile through three more lights to get from a frequent stop near the water tower to my house which would otherwise be only 1-1/2 miles all together.</p>
<p>Lastly, to speak up for the SDOT people (and they are people, who live in Seattle and drive on Seattle&#8217;s streets), the ones I&#8217;ve spoken with about this intersection have been very passionate about their work and highly trained. They are also tasked with balancing the needs of the entire city, not just one small collection of people. Not that they don&#8217;t make mistakes. </p>
<p>I guarantee one has a better chance of influencing decisions before they are made rather than after.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-959821</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 03:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-959821</guid>
		<description>typical city engineering with poor incompetent traffic engineers...again.  is it really that &quot;new&quot; to time a light according to which road takes priority?  NO!  if cars had to sit for 3-4 minutes on Genesse, that&#039;s nothing, as there is not that much traffic on that street, but Avalon likely has 20x&#039;s more traffic, thus Avalon should have the majority of the lite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>typical city engineering with poor incompetent traffic engineers&#8230;again.  is it really that &#8220;new&#8221; to time a light according to which road takes priority?  NO!  if cars had to sit for 3-4 minutes on Genesse, that&#8217;s nothing, as there is not that much traffic on that street, but Avalon likely has 20x&#8217;s more traffic, thus Avalon should have the majority of the lite.</p>
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		<title>By: Lover of 26th Ave SW</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-959811</link>
		<dc:creator>Lover of 26th Ave SW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 03:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-959811</guid>
		<description>I am really grateful that our city has made our roads safer. We are westseattleites. We live here so we don&#039;t have to face the chaos of &quot;city&quot; life. Perhaps it&#039;s lights like this one that cause us to stop and appreciate the beautiful community we live in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am really grateful that our city has made our roads safer. We are westseattleites. We live here so we don&#8217;t have to face the chaos of &#8220;city&#8221; life. Perhaps it&#8217;s lights like this one that cause us to stop and appreciate the beautiful community we live in.</p>
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		<title>By: Been There</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-959804</link>
		<dc:creator>Been There</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 02:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-959804</guid>
		<description>Thank you Nancy F. for being the voice of reason in this thread. There are others as well, and I thank them to for their contribution in trying, albeit in vane, to convey to the couple of naysayers as to why this signal was long overdue. As for those naysayers, you do not know what you are talking about. Period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Nancy F. for being the voice of reason in this thread. There are others as well, and I thank them to for their contribution in trying, albeit in vane, to convey to the couple of naysayers as to why this signal was long overdue. As for those naysayers, you do not know what you are talking about. Period.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-959776</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 01:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-959776</guid>
		<description>I live in a complex right at this intersection and I am grateful for this light. The point of it is to stop having pedestrians have to sprint across the street after waiting 5 minutes for a small gap in cars coming from all ways. It was super dangerous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in a complex right at this intersection and I am grateful for this light. The point of it is to stop having pedestrians have to sprint across the street after waiting 5 minutes for a small gap in cars coming from all ways. It was super dangerous.</p>
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		<title>By: wetone</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-959634</link>
		<dc:creator>wetone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-959634</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t know what the problem is, SDOT says we have plenty of road capacity in WS and there should be no traffic issues from all the data and research they have studied. Can&#039;t wait for the next 4-5 years when you have 3-5 thousand more people in that area. But I guess we have Rapid Ride to help us out. It will be fun to get a lawn chair and a cold one and watch the action on that hill when it gets frosty or wet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t know what the problem is, SDOT says we have plenty of road capacity in WS and there should be no traffic issues from all the data and research they have studied. Can&#8217;t wait for the next 4-5 years when you have 3-5 thousand more people in that area. But I guess we have Rapid Ride to help us out. It will be fun to get a lawn chair and a cold one and watch the action on that hill when it gets frosty or wet.</p>
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		<title>By: JS</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-959608</link>
		<dc:creator>JS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-959608</guid>
		<description>Obviously lots of bugs to work out.  I was heading down Avalon this morning around 7:30 and got &quot;stuck&quot; at a light for the first time.  Was backed up almost to 7-11.  I was wondering why the backup, until I remembered the new light.  When it finally changed I made it up to 4th or 5th back when it went red again.  The only green at that time was for the eastbound traffic coming down Genessee, which there was NONE.  It was red for westbound Genesee and all of Avalon for probably 25-30 seconds with nobody moving.  I think priority should be given to Avalon due to the higher volume it receives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously lots of bugs to work out.  I was heading down Avalon this morning around 7:30 and got &#8220;stuck&#8221; at a light for the first time.  Was backed up almost to 7-11.  I was wondering why the backup, until I remembered the new light.  When it finally changed I made it up to 4th or 5th back when it went red again.  The only green at that time was for the eastbound traffic coming down Genessee, which there was NONE.  It was red for westbound Genesee and all of Avalon for probably 25-30 seconds with nobody moving.  I think priority should be given to Avalon due to the higher volume it receives.</p>
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		<title>By: WS Taxpayer</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-959577</link>
		<dc:creator>WS Taxpayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-959577</guid>
		<description>The timing of that light, especially at rush hour, is HORRIBLE.  Back ups all the way to 35th this morning for no reason...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The timing of that light, especially at rush hour, is HORRIBLE.  Back ups all the way to 35th this morning for no reason&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-959575</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-959575</guid>
		<description>Yay! Neighborhood power! Thanks to everyone who stepped up and followed through to make this happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay! Neighborhood power! Thanks to everyone who stepped up and followed through to make this happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy F.</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-959571</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-959571</guid>
		<description>A few comments:
1. The light has been discussed for years through the North Delridge Neighborhood Council (which the WSB kindly reports on). It didn&#039;t happen in a vacuum. 

2. There will never be a speed bump on Genesee, or so we were told by SDOT. As they pointed out, bumps on hills are dangerous for bicyclists. I wouldn&#039;t like it in a car, either. At least two speed studies that have been conducted on Genesee in the past five years have shown that far fewer than the normal 15% of drivers exceed the speed limit. I thought speeding was a huge problem, too, til I spent hours on my own with a speed gun.

3. That intersection is used by pedestrian and bicyclists. I see them frequently. I&#039;m not too surprised car commuters are less aware since I&#039;ve watch many cars blow through the crosswalk despite someone obviously waiting and the blinking light. Watching for cyclists, pedestrians, plus four lanes of traffic (including turns) from Genesee onto Avalon has been nerve wracking. 

4. As mentioned, it&#039;s been under public discussion for years. The light is now installed, it&#039;s not going away. So, what we can do now is request SDOT to revise timing (they have to do that for all lights as traffic patterns change).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few comments:<br />
1. The light has been discussed for years through the North Delridge Neighborhood Council (which the WSB kindly reports on). It didn&#8217;t happen in a vacuum. </p>
<p>2. There will never be a speed bump on Genesee, or so we were told by SDOT. As they pointed out, bumps on hills are dangerous for bicyclists. I wouldn&#8217;t like it in a car, either. At least two speed studies that have been conducted on Genesee in the past five years have shown that far fewer than the normal 15% of drivers exceed the speed limit. I thought speeding was a huge problem, too, til I spent hours on my own with a speed gun.</p>
<p>3. That intersection is used by pedestrian and bicyclists. I see them frequently. I&#8217;m not too surprised car commuters are less aware since I&#8217;ve watch many cars blow through the crosswalk despite someone obviously waiting and the blinking light. Watching for cyclists, pedestrians, plus four lanes of traffic (including turns) from Genesee onto Avalon has been nerve wracking. </p>
<p>4. As mentioned, it&#8217;s been under public discussion for years. The light is now installed, it&#8217;s not going away. So, what we can do now is request SDOT to revise timing (they have to do that for all lights as traffic patterns change).</p>
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		<title>By: kayo</title>
		<link>http://westseattleblog.com/2013/01/followup-new-geneseeavalon-stoplight-finally-working#comment-959567</link>
		<dc:creator>kayo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westseattleblog.com/?p=138285#comment-959567</guid>
		<description>Even if it takes me a little longer to get up to the junction from n. Delridge, I still think the trade off is worth it from a &quot;safety for all&quot; perspective.  A side benefit will be slowing people going way too fast on Avalon.  People treat that road like a freeway onramp.  The negative consequence of folks using neighborhood streets to get around the light needs to be addressed by speed bumps or other mitigation measures which may need to happen sooner rather than later.  I believe this will be the case on 26th with the Greenway, but I can see that the neighborhood to the north of Genesee and east of Avalon could be negatively impacted by this light.  Unfortunately, people will try to get around this sort of thing and there is no way to stop that.  We live on 26th and have to deal with speeders avoiding Delridge backups and it is quite annoying and unsafe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if it takes me a little longer to get up to the junction from n. Delridge, I still think the trade off is worth it from a &#8220;safety for all&#8221; perspective.  A side benefit will be slowing people going way too fast on Avalon.  People treat that road like a freeway onramp.  The negative consequence of folks using neighborhood streets to get around the light needs to be addressed by speed bumps or other mitigation measures which may need to happen sooner rather than later.  I believe this will be the case on 26th with the Greenway, but I can see that the neighborhood to the north of Genesee and east of Avalon could be negatively impacted by this light.  Unfortunately, people will try to get around this sort of thing and there is no way to stop that.  We live on 26th and have to deal with speeders avoiding Delridge backups and it is quite annoying and unsafe.</p>
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