Highway 99 tunnel: Viaduct ‘stakeholders’ letter to the mayor

Another turn in the tunnel tussle tonight: Two West Seattleites and 15 other “stakeholders” who served on the committee that helped choose the proposed Highway 99 tunnel two years ago have released a letter to Mayor McGinn. They’re asking him not to go through with his threat to veto the actions the City Council has taken to join the state in proceeding with the project (which won’t be final until and unless it passes environmental muster later this year – and then, there are the two ballot initiatives looming this fall). “While we respect your preferences for a different Viaduct replacement approach, this compromise is the only feasible way to move forward,” says the letter, recapping how the stakeholders first went on record backing two other options, then the tunnel. The letter adds, “We believe that the time has long passed to second guess the bored tunnel decision made by the Governor, state legislature, County, Port and past and present City Councils. Whether or not it was our initial choice, all of us agree that the citizens of Seattle, the region, and state are best served by moving forward.” And they ask for a meeting with the mayor. No word yet on his reaction, but you can read the full letter here (Word doc). Its 17 signers include West Seattleites Pete Spalding and Vlad Oustimovitch.

ADDED 11:11 PM: For those who can’t read docx, here’s the plain-text version:

February 11, 2011

Hon. Mike McGinn
Mayor, City of Seattle
600 Fourth Avenue, 7th Floor
Seattle, WA 98124

Re: Your Potential Veto of the Bored Tunnel Ordinance (117101)

Dear Mayor McGinn,

As you know, the City Council has recently adopted Ordinance 117101, which approves certain agreements between the State of Washington and the City of Seattle relating to the Alaskan Way Bored Tunnel and improvements to City streets, the waterfront and the state’s Moving Forward projects. As members of the Alaskan Way Viaduct Replacement Stakeholders Committee in 2007 and 2008, we studied many issues associated with the replacement and helped select the Bored Tunnel as one of three final options and the one now being implemented.

Today we are coming together to urge you to not to exercise a veto this Ordinance.

While we respect your preferences for a different Viaduct replacement approach, this compromise is the only feasible way to move forward. It’s been ten years since the Nisqually quake shook the Viaduct. Since then, 700 community meetings have been held, 15,000 public comments have been registered. We believe there has more than enough Seattle process.

Since you did not personally participate in the Viaduct Stakeholder process in 2008, we would like to give you a little context on why we believe it is time to move forward and not try to further delay this process with a veto. During much of the Stakeholder process, WSDOT assumed it would build all the components of the project and concluded that, within its initial budget, only a rebuilt Viaduct or a surface-roadway idea might be technically and financially feasible. Those, including yourself, who now assert that the stakeholders as a group strongly supported a surface-roadway idea are either misinformed or missing some important history. Whether one liked these two ideas or not (and very few of the stakeholders supported either a rebuild or surface-roadway idea), most of us recognized that in real life it was highly unlikely either of these ideas could ever actually happen, given the massive opposition from many critical constituencies in the city, region, and state. Given this reality, we then took a more serious look at a bored tunnel solution. At our December 11, 2008 meeting, 23 of 24 stakeholders asked the state to consider the bored tunnel as a third option.

The City, County and Port of Seattle then worked to develop a partnership with the state to help fund different components of the Viaduct replacement program. It was clear that this partnership commitment met the tunnel project’s funding requirements. It was equally clear, that under a surface-roadway scenario, our city would have risked losing $2.4 billion in state money that was already on the table. That would have left local taxpayers on the hook for the entire project costs, amounting to billions of dollars that our city didn’t have.

The fact that the cost of bored tunnels around the world were coming down substantially in recent years and that tunnel experts told WSDOT that a less costly single-bore approach was feasible also helped. As we took a closer look at the bored tunnel, we realized it had five major benefits, which remain to this day: 1) it avoids dumping 110,000 vehicles each day from the existing Viaduct onto city streets and I-5, and 4,000 to 6,000 trucks on to 2nd and 4th Avenues, an outcome which would create unacceptable congestion every day for all vehicles including regional transit services, force removal of bike lanes on these streets, and create an unhealthy pedestrian environment downtown; 2) it allows dozens of waterfront businesses to stay open – which would have been closed under any other option; 3) it allows people and goods to use this existing essential north-south regional corridor right up to the day the Tunnel opens; 4) it creates thousands of construction jobs when we need them most and provides long-term regional economic benefits on one of our most important transportation corridors; and 5) it creates a once-in-a-generation opportunity to open up the central waterfront into a magnificent park for Seattle citizens and visitors, pedestrians and cyclists. According to Gehl Architects, a respected and independent consultant that advised the stakeholder process, any other option would have severely deteriorated the waterfront and downtown’s fragile urban landscape. Finally, the tunnel reduces construction along this major truck route through the waterfront area.

Based on these benefits and the infeasibility of the surface-roadway and rebuild ideas, the Governor, County Executive, Port CEO and Mayor selected the bored tunnel as their preferred alternative and successfully persuaded the state legislature in 2009 to authorize its funding and construction subject to the completion of the environmental review process. Since that time WSDOT has completed a lengthy RFP process, and selected and signed an on-budget contract with an international design-build team which is proceeding with preliminary design and planning.

The City Council has taken 10 months, retained its own independent experts on key topics, had 18 public meetings and conducted extensive due diligence of its own leading up its adoption of the Ordinance. The Ordinance has many provisions which protect City residents, ensure that the City will not be responsible for any Tunnel overruns should they occur, and otherwise ensure that the City will be at the table on every key step of the planning and construction process. As this is a state project which could proceed with or without the city’s permission or approval, all a veto would accomplish is to take away the protection and guarantees the Ordinance gives the City – in our opinion, a veto would not be a good idea.

The City Council was very clear in November, 2009 in unanimously establishing as City policy its support for proceeding with the Bored Tunnel as its preferred alternative and its commitment to work with the State, Port and King County to move forward. Prior to your election, you publicly committed to carrying out the will of the Council, even though you personally preferred another idea. We appreciate that you may have your own preferences and views, but respectfully ask you to now adhere to your earlier and very clear commitment to abide by the Council’s November 2009 commitment to the Bored Tunnel by not exercising a veto of the February 7 Ordinance and the three agreements with WSDOT.

We believe that the time has long passed to second guess the bored tunnel decision made by the Governor, state legislature, County, Port and past and present City Councils. Whether or not it was our initial choice, all of us agree that the citizens of Seattle, the region, and state are best served by moving forward.

We would request an opportunity for some of us to meet with you personally prior to your decision on a veto to discuss these issues further. Please contact Bob Donegan at 206-587-6500 whether you are willing to meet with some of us early next week. Thank you for your consideration of our request.

Sincerely,

Warren Aakervik
Interbay/BINMIC

Carol Binder
Former Executive Director, Pike Place Market

John Coney
Queen Anne resident

Mahlon Clements
Ballard/Fremont

Bob Donegan
Seattle Historic Waterfront Coalition

Don Newby
Southwest King County

David Freiboth
Executive Secretary
Martin Luther King
County Labor Council

Jim O’Halloran
Northeast Seattle

John Odland
Manufacturing Industrial Council

John Pehrson
Belltown

Vlad Oustimovitch
West Seattle

Earl Richardson
Southeast Seattle

Robert Sexton
Board of Directors of the Downtown
Seattle Association

Peter Spalding
West Seattle

Herald Ugles
International Longshore and Warehouse
Union

Todd Vogel
Former Allied Arts Chair and Chair of NW
Sustainability Collective

Tayloe Washburn
Former Chair of the Board
Greater Seattle Chamber of Commerce

66 Replies to "Highway 99 tunnel: Viaduct 'stakeholders' letter to the mayor"

  • Forest February 14, 2011 (10:49 pm)

    Computers running the Windows XP operating system render .docx files as gibberish. For the low-tech WSB readers out here, please post the letter in Microsoft Word or Rich Text.

    • WSB February 14, 2011 (11:08 pm)

      Docx *is* Word … I can’t read it either, had to open it in Google Docs, will see if I can fire up some other computer around here to open docx so I can convert it to a PDF, sorry … TR

  • Alex February 14, 2011 (10:54 pm)

    We all know there’s no hope. McGinn has made it clear from the time he was campaigning: he WILL stop the tunnel, and in it’s place we will have nothing. Maybe some bike lanes… Good luck to I-5 handling all the extra traffic!

  • PSPS February 14, 2011 (11:01 pm)

    The sooner they scuttle this undersized, low-capacity boondoggle, the better. Retrofitting the existing structure will cost a fraction of the tunnel, be completed much faster, and have very little impact on traffic while it is completed.

  • ws February 14, 2011 (11:05 pm)

    When will McGinn understand? He has promised many things when he was in the campaigning phase, and the only thing we can bank on is the fact that he will not stick to those promises… unless they surround the idea of bike lanes or a $10 million fence. The man is undoubtedly the worst mayor Seattle has ever seen ( or will ever see). Let’s make sure we all never make the mistake of electing him again.

  • Jeff F. February 14, 2011 (11:07 pm)

    YES! More and more people need to keep calling out Mayor McGinn on his obstructionist B.S. He has done nothing in his year plus in office but set our city on a backwards track. I hope our mayor actually reads this and changes his mind. I know he won’t though. Remember this gem from two weeks before the election…

    “If I’m elected mayor, although I disagree with this decision, it will be my job to uphold and execute this agreement,” (McGinn) said. “It is not the mayor’s job to withhold the cooperation of city government in executing this agreement.”

    He ran an anti-tunnel campaign, flip flopped at the last second to get elected, then the second he gets into office starts acting like a spoiled brat! It’s shameful the way he conducts business. I shouldn’t be surprised though coming from a two-faced lawyer. I’m counting down the days until his embarrassment of a term is OVER! It’s time to look forward not backwards and move on together as a city without you Mr. McGinn.

  • boo to the tunnel February 14, 2011 (11:07 pm)

    I would far rather change my schedule to avoid traffic than pay a toll and still sit in a death trap of a tunnel. I drive on the Viaduct every day, and I love that road. No tunnel. Every West Seattlite should be on the mayor’s side. There’s no way we should be paying billions up front and tolls for eternity for something we voted against.

  • Diane February 14, 2011 (11:08 pm)

    thanks Forest; yes, I also cannot access docx

    • WSB February 14, 2011 (11:13 pm)

      UPDATE – from the Google conversion, I have pasted it in plain text at the bottom of the story. Sorry for any formatting quirks, I will go back and fix line spacing after another story I have to finish writing.

  • boo to the tunnel February 14, 2011 (11:13 pm)

    @Jeff: The city never OK’ed the tunnel. It was designed and pushed by politicians and funded by state officials interested in raking taxes from the cost & wages. It’s busy-work at best. I’m all for stimulus projects where they benefit the city, but this is going to isolate West Seattle’s residents and businesses. No tolls, no tunnel.

  • dsa February 14, 2011 (11:25 pm)

    The problem is the mayor does not want a viaduct either. His solution is tear down the existing and expect I-5 to take the traffic.

  • Jeff F. February 14, 2011 (11:25 pm)

    @boo to the tunnel – Did you even read that letter? Since it was written for the mayor, it explains in simple, easy terms exactly how and why the deep bore tunnel option was chosen. And who are you talking about when you say, “The city never OK’ed the tunnel.”? It was supported by the former mayor as well as current and past city counsels. You also call the tunnel a death trap. The only death trap in this city is the Viaduct. Two weeks from today will be the 10th anniversary of the Nisqually Quake. 10 YEARS and yet nothing has really been done. Anyone that thinks a retrofit is even possible simply doesn’t know the facts. Anyone that wants a rebuild hasn’t fully thought it through. There’s a reason the deep bore tunnel was chosen.

  • Wseavirgo February 14, 2011 (11:31 pm)

    Just wondering if anyone can list any good arguments for the tunnel – all the reading and listening to politicians I’ve done leads me to believe it is a poor choice for everyone but those who stand to make a profit from it.

  • Westside J. February 15, 2011 (3:08 am)

    I agree something should be done, but I’d really really like to see it done in the way of updating or rebuilding a new viaduct. It’s part of Seattle history, and one of the pretty drives around. I love smelling the fish and chips from ivars while driving with the windows down in the summer! Sunsets? Fuhgeddabowtit!! I viaduct.

  • k February 15, 2011 (5:48 am)

    tunnel. fail.

  • CandrewB February 15, 2011 (6:05 am)

    Deathtrap? Any idea how many tunnels there are in the world? This is not new territory; it would be considered a minor construction project in Asia.

  • cali February 15, 2011 (6:21 am)

    Writing a letter to McGinn is fruitless. I wrote a letter in November. He doesn’t respond, but will put you on a mailing list. Funny how you can get a response from the White House, even if it is an automated one, and major companies, but not from McGinn. Maybe put that you are a member of the bicycle alliance?

  • redblack February 15, 2011 (7:47 am)

    just wait until the tunnel tolling arguments start. tim eyman’s I-1053 (2010) prevents the state from levying new tolls or fees without a 2/3 majority in the state legislature.
    .
    oops!
    .
    i’ll ask again: if the state is ponying up $2.4 billion – $1.1 billion of which goes toward the south end of the viaduct – and the city is coughing up $400 million for the roadway and $500 million for the seawall, why is there any mention of tolling?
    .
    evidently, the stakeholders don’t know the definition of “feasible.”
    .
    so the city and state have budget deficits, our schools are in trouble, our roads are like moonscapes, the city is cutting services to the needy, no one wants to pay higher taxes, people are at each others’ throats over public sector wages, we have no hope for funding sensible and rapid transit… not to mention that, back in 2007, the state offered to fully fund replacing the AWV with a new 6-lane elevated (with downtown exits!)…
    .
    yet, somehow, a tolled four-lane tunnel is the most feasible idea for connecting highway 99 through downtown?
    .
    because the AWV can stay open until the tunnel is bored is not a good enough reason to bore it.
    .
    the DBT – as designed and with this “funding” structure – has never been fully compared to the other options for replacing AWV. let’s do so now.
    .
    and does anyone else find it even a little bit fishy that the 2007 ballot was worded in such a way as to allow both options to fail?

  • sara February 15, 2011 (8:24 am)

    @PSPS: Retrofitting the existing structure would NOT be a fraction of the cost. The existing structure cannot be retrofitted. Talk to any buddy in construction–concrete or ironwork. Walk below it and have them show you how much of it is compromised. Seriously. I have a brother who’s an ironworking foreman, large structural ironworks/concrete. He says he hates to drive on it. He can’t believe people use it. One small quake. It’s not safe now and it’s really not safe given any shifting. I’m not saying this from lack of love for preexisting structure. I love taking 99 north and south to WSBridge, because I love the view of the sound, the mountains, and the city. It’s just not safe, sensible, or financially pragmatic to keep it.

  • elizabeth February 15, 2011 (8:41 am)

    A big Thank You to the members of the Alaskan Way Viaduct Replacement Stakeholders Committee for this well written letter. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the end decision, it is way past time for hashing this out yet again and delaying a solution. We know we have an issue with the present structure & as time moves on the likelihood that it will become unsafe enough that it cannot be used only increases.
    Let’s stop this nonsense & move on!

  • Judy B. February 15, 2011 (8:46 am)

    I’m glad so many of you can afford to pay the toll both ways every day. What is your solution for those of us who cannot?

  • Judy B. February 15, 2011 (8:48 am)

    You know what? I just thought of the answer to my above question: Let them eat cake.

  • Jeff F. February 15, 2011 (9:28 am)

    Semi-related – When did we collectively decide as a city/state/nation that we no longer want to build anything? Seriously, what a bunch of ineffectual wussies we’ve become. We spend YEARS arguing and creating committees while the rest of the world speeds right by us. And another thing, where do people think the money goes when infrastructure projects like this get built? The majority goes directly into LABOR! I guess naysayers here here don’t want to create jobs. Naysayers don’t want to build something that will last generations. Naysayers don’t want to do ANYTHING but say “NO”. “No” is always easier then “yes”. “Yes” means you actually have to do work. I say let’s go to work!

  • NotMe February 15, 2011 (9:31 am)

    Yep… let’s all sit and argue for a long time. That way, the viaduct will collapse, the sea wall will crumble, and then we can start all over and try to figure out what to do about the mess.
    .
    The solution is to stop the b.s. and all the posturing. Build the stupid tunnel, fix the sea wall and try not to kill each other in the process.
    .
    I didn’t know there was ever any talk of a toll for this tunnel. If there is, and you can’t afford it, then you don’t drive in it. You take the alternate routes: I-5 or the surface streets through downtown. Stop trying to find a “no-win situation” for the supposed majority of WS’ers.

    • WSB February 15, 2011 (9:34 am)

      NotMe – They need to toll to pay part of the cost. However, at least one of the studies has shown that if they toll, many people will avoid it, therefore (a) putting an extra burden on other roads and (b) raising less of the money they need to raise. So they’re trying to work through that conundrum now, somehow. We’ve included this in our ongoing incremental reporting but here’s the state’s infopage
      .
      http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Viaduct/BoredTunnelTolling.htm
      .
      – TR

  • Alex February 15, 2011 (9:31 am)

    “Just wondering if anyone can list any good arguments for the tunnel.”

    ———That’s easy———

    1. It’s the lesser of many evils
    2. If we don’t build it, there is a 99% chance we will end up with nothing (a useless surface street where a freeway should be).
    3. Yes, the tunnel has many shortcomings, but we can’t ignore one crucial fact. SOMETHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING, even if that something does sort of suck. This city can’t afford to simply eliminate one of it’s two north-south freeways without putting something in its place.

    I predict the tunnel will eventually get stopped (monorail-style, after we’ve paid for half of it). Then I predict west seattle property values to plummet, as our bridge commutes double with the new even-heavier I-5 traffic. :(

    Bottom line, if we build the tunnel things will only get a little worse. If we don’t built it, they will get a lot worse.

  • No tunnel February 15, 2011 (9:43 am)

    Going from four lanes to two is not acceptable. Also, how can you justify taking away the best view of the city and Olympics in exchange for concrete walls? It’s not like the piers are going to come down and we’ll have access to the waterfront. The viaduct is part of what makes Seattle Seattle. Down with the tunnel. Build a new viaduct! I hope the people get to vote on this again this fall. Vote out the city council members who have voted for this expensive, unsuitable option.

  • NotMe February 15, 2011 (9:44 am)

    Wow…. I completely slept through all of that. Well, to put a toll is a bit crazy, since a ton of the funding is coming from tax money. But let’s get some reality just for a minute.
    .
    Pause. Take a deep breath.
    .
    That tunnel, or the impending “solution” does NOT belong to West Seattle. The sooner we accept that, the better. As for property values, you may want to check out the NY Times from this past Sunday. Seattle is getting hit hard these days, and once that traffic backs up when the viaduct comes down (either deliberately or by rot – God forbid), people will start leaving very quickly. It isn’t the tunnel to blame – it’s the lack of planning all along. You want to start somewhere? Get the Vashon ferry out of West Seattle and into downtown where it belongs.

  • Jeff F. February 15, 2011 (9:46 am)

    Why are people anti-tolls/anti-taxes? When did it become bad to actually have to pay for stuff? What is wrong with people anymore?!? UGH!!! If you don’t want to pay for tolls or tunnels or roads then get rid of your car.

  • Lola February 15, 2011 (9:47 am)

    What was that cackle I heard resonating throughout the midnight canyons of West Seattle? Sounded like… no… could it be… Nah, Greg Nickels wouldn’t do that, would he?

  • CandrewB February 15, 2011 (10:31 am)

    “Going from four lanes to two is not acceptable.”

    How many lanes do you think are in the Battery St Tunnel? Thank the Lord you all weren’t around when that was being proposed.

    How did the Mt Baker Tunnel get built with everyone thinking their opinion matters?

  • WS commuter February 15, 2011 (10:47 am)

    “Just wondering if anyone can list any good arguments for the tunnel.”

    Fair question. Consider the alternatives. Repairing the existing viaduct is not a good choice because it will always be seismically vulnerable, (read the draft EIS – its online). In fact, any elevated structure will be, in the liquifiable soils along our waterfront, so building a new viaduct is also not a good choice (EIS). A new viaduct would have to be built to current highway codes, so it would also be 50% wider than the current version, designed according to code in the 1950’s. It would dramatically change our waterfront for the worse, aside from being seismically vulnerable. It could be built, but it wouldn’t be that much less expensive than the DBT.

    The cheapest, and one can argue, seismically safest choice is to tear down the viaduct and go to a street-only option. However, that would cripple Seattle’s transportation infrastructure. Anyone remember what the two days after the Nisqually quake were like for W. Seattle/Burien and Normandy Park commuters? Hell on earth.

    The DBT gives us the same two lanes through downtown we have now, and that is the essence of why it needs to be built.

  • Westside J. February 15, 2011 (11:04 am)

    What I want to know about the tunnel is (and maybe I missed sone revision to the plan and I’m behind the times), why won’t there be any downtown exits like Seneca? Is there going to be a Western ave exit??

  • No_to_Tunnel February 15, 2011 (11:15 am)

    “it creates a once-in-a-generation opportunity to open up the central waterfront into a magnificent park for Seattle citizens and visitors, pedestrians and cyclists.” Are they kidding? Have these writers been to Victor Steinbrueck Park? It’s great during the day with plenty of tourists and residents, but check it out after dining at Cutters or Ettas. Unsavory characters.

    Both the city and county have both been closing parks due to lack of funding. There is also the issue of parking if one does not desire to ride 2 buses to arrive and spend time at the park.

    So we will have this open central waterfront to a) house the homeless camp, or b) sell to the highest bidder to erect monstrosities to block the great equalizer – splendid views.

    No thanks.

  • ToddinWestwood February 15, 2011 (12:07 pm)

    Well, his plan is working perfectly. He will make traffic so bad and it so hard to get downtwon from West Seattle that we will HAVE to ride our bicycles everywhere. I am so angry at Mayor McSchwinn I could spit. GRRRRRR.

    Dear Mr Mayor, you are going to kill West Seattle.

    Time for the West Seattle Liberation Front to meet and start planning for the future.

    W.S.L.F.!!!!!!!!!!

  • redblack February 15, 2011 (12:30 pm)

    notme: that ferry dock should have moved years ago. i imagine the people of vashon don’t like having to use the w.s. bridge/viaduct double-whammy, either.
    .
    jeff: oh, we want to build something. we just want to build something else. something that makes sense.
    .
    andrew: the battery street tunnel can only handle traffic reduced to two lanes because of the western and seneca exits.
    .
    ws commuter: i’m not saying that it’s the best solution, but the west seattle bridge has full-width lanes and shoulders. the AWV’s width and its narrow lanes are due to the placement of the support columns outside of the road deck. a new elevated doesn’t have to be designed that way
    .
    westside j: the tunnel will be 200 feet below downtown. the exit ramp would have to be – what? – a 50% grade? and even then the nearest exit would be somewhere around broadway on capitol hill.
    .
    for those who want downtown exits, i say we put in a car/truck elevator.
    .
    look, people. the sky isn’t going to fall if this tunnel doesn’t get built. two things will mitigate – but not solve! – the damage: the new spokane street viaduct, and the new 99 by the stadiums. for the north end, there will be the new mercer interchange.
    .
    bottom line: for those of us going through downtown from w.s., it’s going to suck no matter what is or isn’t built.

  • MLJ February 15, 2011 (1:17 pm)

    I’m keeping a list of all the people who have obstructed this project so that when it falls down and takes our friends, families, and loved ones with it, I can identify those with the blood on their hands. If I don’t get crushed by it myself.
    .
    Unless the inevitable earthquake happens at 4am, there will be substantial casualties. If you live in West Seattle, someone you know will be dead. In the end this is about public safety, not money, time, or inconvenience.
    .
    My guess is that the people who keep delaying this project don’t use the roadway, and don’t give a crap about the people who do…including the Mayor.

  • redblack February 15, 2011 (1:22 pm)

    todd: getting to downtown isn’t the issue. the new 99 by the stadiums makes that happen. the DBT eliminates exits downtown. in other words, once the tunnel is bored, the only way into downtown is the same option you’d have if the viaduct wasn’t there now. (I-5, alaskan way, first/frontage ave, fourth ave, airport way, etc.)
    .
    the only (fading) option that maintains exits from 99 into the center of downtown is the elevated.
    .
    but go ahead and call the mayor names if it makes you feel better.

  • redblack February 15, 2011 (1:56 pm)

    MLJ: take it down already! i use it almost every day, and i want it gone.
    .
    but that doesn’t automatically mean that i want a bored tunnel.
    .
    the AWV and the tunnel are mutually exclusive. claiming otherwise to frighten people and score political points is underhanded.

  • ToddinWestwood February 15, 2011 (2:04 pm)

    95 percent of my trips on 99 either end up at one of the two downtown exits. Rarely do I go north of Battery St.

  • redblack February 15, 2011 (2:13 pm)

    todd: so the DBT will improve your commute – exactly how? you’ll take 99 to the stadiums, then slog up first ave or fourth ave with the rest of us.
    .
    or do you want to pay the toll, take the tunnel to lower queen anne, then head south from there?

  • flynlo February 15, 2011 (2:16 pm)

    @redblack – The west seattle bridge USED to have “full-width lanes and shoulders”, but doesn’t any longer in the east bound direction, since the addition of the bus lane. I suspect that the same thing will happen to the tunnel once the traffic builds, they will narrow the shoulders to allow for a third lane!!

  • ToddinWestwood February 15, 2011 (3:37 pm)

    I am not “for” or “against” the tunnel. I wish it was planned with some sort of off ramps at Seneca and Western. At this point it will be useless to me.
    For the record: I was hoping for a “Lake Shore Drive” in Chicago style. With ped overpasses and bike lanes. The other style would have been nive was the trench style with a few covered areas that could be turned into green space.

  • Michael February 15, 2011 (3:46 pm)

    But…it’s the Mayor’s only schtick!
    .
    How will he get Capitol Hill’s vote in 2012 if he doesn’t veto?
    .
    A city bypass is CRITICAL for West Seattle. The “more-city-streets-with-stoplights-but-call-them-99” concept will cause even more catastrophic clogging on I-5, and increase our travel times to all points North 4-to-5 times what they are now.
    .
    Love the people trying to sell it though.

  • W February 15, 2011 (7:26 pm)

    I only voted for McGinn b/c he promised to NOT block the tunnel. The lack of ability of this city to accomplish any major transportation project makes me sick. The only reason we have light rail is because it’s sound transit.

    If we were really on our game, that West Seattle monorail would have happened – and our problems out here would be significantly less. I was not living out here at the time, but supported that project like the rest of Seattle anyway, inspite of cost. Whenever someone says “we can’t afford to do that” trying to slide in some half-baked alternative, my answer is “we can’t afford not to” because what we really can’t afford is a paralyzed city – and that is exactly where we’re headed.

  • NotMe February 15, 2011 (8:12 pm)

    I don’t understand people’s misunderstanding of the tunnel. Like it or not, that tunnel is going in.

  • CB February 15, 2011 (8:58 pm)

    Time to recall McSchwinn.

  • visitor February 15, 2011 (9:06 pm)

    LOVE the viaduct!

  • rachel February 16, 2011 (2:03 am)

    CHINA JUST SURPASSED JAPAN AS THE SECOND LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD. DUBAI HAS STATE OF THE ART AIRPORTS, TRANSPORTATION AND SKYSCRAPERS. SHANGHAI IS BUILDING INCREDIBLE BUILDINGS WITH CUTTING EDGE DESIGN. AND ON AND ON…..OTHER COUNTRIES ARE KICKING OUR AS* AND MAKING THE U.S. LOOK LIKE A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY!!!THE VIDADUCT HAD IT’S HEYDAY ALREADY AND NOW IT’S TIME TO CHANGE. GET WITH THE FUTURE PEOPLE OR YOU WILL BE LEFT IN THE DUST! TRAVEL SOMEWHERE OUTSIDE THE U.S…..IT MIGHT OPEN YOUR EYES.

  • redblack February 16, 2011 (6:44 am)

    THE FUTURE IS ABOVE GROUND. I’VE SEEN IT!!1!
    .
    btw, rachel, other countries invest in rail and new technologies. they do not spend their money on roads the way americans do. we have a huge oil industry that actually removed train systems in the ’50’s. other burgeoning economies, like china and japan, can afford these things because they have a river of u.s. dollars flowing at them. we have nothing but red ink.
    .
    todd: totally agreed. when i think of hiding a freeway, i think of the mercer island lid.
    .
    notme: no misunderstanding here. just a sense that i’m being swindled again by people with something to gain from all of this.
    .
    the people and businesses who will benefit most from the viaduct’s removal won’t be paying the tolls, will they? bonus: the state and city clear out the rats and the homeless people – free of charge!

  • no tunnel February 16, 2011 (9:29 am)

    Would someone explain how they feel safer 200ft below ground vs. 50ft above ground IF a earthquake were to hit. Do you see the green guys in the pic above running for the stairs? How fast can you climb 200ft of stairs during mass hysteria? Lets build the deep bore tomb for the tunnel lovers, and when complete, retrofit the viaduct for the rest of us. win-win, except for developers…

  • JoB February 16, 2011 (9:40 am)

    the sad reality is that the pricetag for the luxury of living in West Seattle has just gone up.. whether the tunnel ever gets built or not :(

    the viaduct will come down. We had just better hope that mother nature doesn’t take care of this for us in the most expensive way possible.

    i lived in St Paul when the freeway bridge came down in Minneapolis…
    not anything i would wish on Seattle.

  • WS commuter February 16, 2011 (1:59 pm)

    no tunnel – engineers will explain to you that a tube (the DBT) is structurally one of the safest places to be in an earthquake because the loads go around it. Conversely, an elevated structure is one of the most dangerous places to be – imagine standing on a ladder when the earthquake happens? Do you want to be there? Not that hard to understand.

    redblack – where, exactly, does one hide this freeway as was done on M.I.? Please explain.

    I guess I understand that some people “feel” as though they are being swindled. Can’t help how people choose to “feel” But without facts to support the conspiracy theories, it just sounds crackpot-ish .

  • Fiwa Jcbbb February 16, 2011 (2:26 pm)

    I could be wrong, but in reading all of these posts no one mentions the real winner in all of this…the owners of the parking lots, mini-storages, and office buildings uphill of the viaduct who will soon enjoy a quiet unobstructed view and correspondingly increased real estate values. Interesting that one of the main proponents of the only idea dumber than the tunnel, the “surface/transit”, “gridlock”, or “let them eat bus” option, is The Stranger magazine, who not so long ago opposed the Seattle Commons park project on grounds that it would “just create an expensive lawn for wealthy condo owners”. And how many Stranger writers will be able to afford the new waterfront condos/offices/restaurants?

    Oh, and I ran into Mayor McSchwinn outside a restaurant a few weeks back…he was NOT on a bicycle, but in a city vehicle being driven for him.

  • michael akers February 16, 2011 (5:33 pm)

    i want to know who are the local contractors that will benefit by the tunnel dig are they out of state contractors? it will not help anybody here if local companies are not used so when they say it will benefit local workers i tend to think it will be police getting overtime for traffic control and thats it

  • J242 February 16, 2011 (7:57 pm)

    “no tunnel – engineers will explain to you that a tube (the DBT) is structurally one of the safest places to be in an earthquake because the loads go around it. Conversely, an elevated structure is one of the most dangerous places to be – imagine standing on a ladder when the earthquake happens? Do you want to be there? Not that hard to understand.”

    An elevated, horizontal structure is not in any way similar to a primarily vertical structure only supported at two points. By building supporting arches under the individual viaduct levels that would put the weight bearing stress over a much larger area which would dramatically reduce any impact a quake might have on them.

    I’m all for restructuring the existing viaduct with supportive arches in addition to the vertical supports underneath and then re-build the roadway one piece at a time. It would be faster, more efficient, safer and FAR cheaper than the tunnel PLUS it will keep the downtown on and off ramps in place that are necessary for this city’s transportation needs. An underground two level, two lane structure with NO downtown ins or outs is not an option, it’s a slap in the face.

  • Paul February 16, 2011 (8:47 pm)

    I don’t know the solution ( thats’ what our city leaders are paid and voted for to know) but I don’t like the tunnel idea. anyone here have any good ideas? maybe ferries or another bridge? are we sure rebuilding the viaduct isn’t safe? Just trying to think outside the box..maybe balloon rides?

  • redblack February 16, 2011 (9:06 pm)

    ws commuter: zing! you got me. bravo.
    .
    fact: the price tag for boring the tunnel is over $1.9 billion, barring unforeseen circumstances.
    .
    quiz: how much money does the state have left to bore the tunnel after spending $1.1 billion to bring down the south end of AWV and rebuild SR99?
    .
    i guess i should have used stronger language that “feel like i’m being swindled.”
    .
    and i didn’t even get a kiss.
    .
    then again, you didn’t either.

  • redblack February 16, 2011 (9:35 pm)

    ws commuter: understand that i’m just spitballing alternate ideas here – and i’m sure you’ll have some witty commentary on the very notion – but i thought the mercer island model was pretty obvious.
    .
    instead of having an open freeway on the waterfront, why not put green space on top of it? (like the mercer island lid.) instead of cut-and-cover, why not put the roadway into a shallower trench, minimizing the height of the structure that spans it? it has cost benefits, it “hides” the freeway, it opens up the waterfront visually, it provides green space and access to the waterfront, it doesn’t put stress on the seawall, it doesn’t risk undermining substrates downtown, and it provides access to and through the downtown waterfront.
    .
    btw, surface roads don’t have to be noisy. europe and canada – and even washington – have had success with recycled tire aggregates in road surfaces – instead of stone.
    .
    why is it “my way or the highway” with tunnel advocates?

  • christie February 17, 2011 (5:44 am)

    Its revolution time…

  • CandrewB February 17, 2011 (5:54 am)

    Technically it’s “my way or no highway.”

  • WS commuter February 17, 2011 (10:28 am)

    redblack – the concept of a modified cut and cover highway (partially submerged, rather than fully submerged), or lidded, as you describe it, is actually a good concept in theory, but was rejected for the same reasons as the full cut and cover – the cost is much higher in the liquifiable soils along the waterfront combined with the water table in that zone. It would cost way more than the DBT, so it was abandoned (again, if people would just read the draft EIS … the facts are what they are). So philosophically, I actually don’t disagree with the idea, but it isn’t practical. Also, to do that option, the existing viaduct would have to be torn down first, so we’d go through 3+ years of hell with no SR 99 at all.

    J242 … any bandaid approach to the existing viaduct is structurally risky – an elevated structure in those soils will always be vulnerable – even a brand new one. As much as I enjoy the view, I know I’ll be safer when its gone.

  • redblack February 17, 2011 (8:46 pm)

    ws commuter: if you really believe that the tunnel will be open before the AWV is torn down, i have a bridge to sell you on the seattle waterfront.
    .
    not.
    .
    gonna.
    .
    happen.

  • WS commuter February 18, 2011 (10:30 am)

    redblack … so many wild predictions … so many conspiracies … and so little relation to facts or reality. You might pay attention to the detail in the plan where demolition of the AWV doesn’t begin until after the DBT is open. Facts are pesky things. I realize they don’t fit your world-view, but there you go.

  • redblack February 18, 2011 (1:31 pm)

    oh, i hear what seattle tunnel group LLP is saying. here’s another wild prediction, anyway: i’ll bet AWV falls down or is condemned before that tunnel’s proposed opening in fall of 2015.
    .
    tick tock.
    .
    but you’re right. facts are pesky. especially the fact that the tunnel is hemorrhaging money before the final EIS is concluded.
    .
    here’s another fact: no one has ever bored a 58-foot wide tunnel before.
    .
    i’m not saying it can’t be done – and done well – but here’s a quiz: what is the average cost overrun of a project of this cost and scope?
    .
    bonus points: what is in the state’s contingency fund?
    .
    facts are even more pesky when you have to answer honest questions, huh?

Sorry, comment time is over.